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[One-Shot]

But Macklemore does walk amongst others and protests…

and that's why I won't listen to him. Moron.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I wish I had your powers, to magically know so much about people's motivations without ever having met them.

his action speaks for itself

anyway i shouldnt be surprised by the responses im getting. theres a defense force for everything on gaf so it stands to reason theres one for antisemites too.

 

[The Big Rig]

These posts are so dumb.

-Someone says something good.

-WELLLLLLL remember when you did this bad thing

The dude apologized.



...

If he said that all the activism he's been a part of, and all the things he said in his music was wrong, you might still use what he's done to show how he's a good guy. Because it doesn't matter whether he apologizes or not, he did it. To act like everything is all good is nonsense. The dude dressed like a Hasidim while rapping about a thrift shop, which is a pretty shitty thing to do whether he regrets it or not.

 

[foodtaster]

Thanks for posting this. Seriously.

And Macklemore can just shut his dumb fucking mouth. Oh, I'm an artist! I have opinions!

ironically, could the same not be said of your opinion(s)?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

bronson? i saw part of that movie once. the nudie parts

 

[Dylan]

his action speaks for itself

In the paranoid narrative that you've fabricated, I'm sure it does.

 

[theusedversion]

Eminem raped his mother?

 

[LaserBuddha]

Thanks for posting this. Seriously.

And Macklemore can just shut his dumb fucking mouth. Oh, I'm an artist! I have opinions!

This sounds like something a jealous Homer Simpson would say.

 

[Patapwn]

Forget if he's genuine or not, what I don't like about Macky here is that his belief is dumb as fuck, that belief being that Hip Hop is an art form owned by a particular race (black people).

I understand that hip hop was a particular cultural moment incubated in a community during a time a great angst and that possibly this suffering had a hand in developing the movement but nobody owns it and nobody needs go out of their way to fight whatever. White people who rap are not 'taking' from black people.

Imagine if we have a black opera singer being asked to 'learn his place' in the scheme of opera because that was a movement sometime, someplace in Europe? You think that's dumb and most certainly something that would be considered racist? Well, it is and it would. That's exactly whats going on here with Macklemore and he's cheered for it.

What happened to racial barriers being demolished and an all inclusive human approach being considered? With statements like "I do believe that I need to know my place" He's basically doing this weird racism on himself playing the teary eyed sorry white boy. It's fucking pathetic. And that's the kind of attitude that makes me not like him at all.

 

[BearFlexington]

Hardly the only white rapper with something to say.

 

[Extollere]

Personally I think it's the same shit we've already heard but it must fucking suck for the dude to be pushed up against a wall of the racial issue whether he wants to or not. Whether you think the dude's a cac or not, being white has basically written the current narrative of his career so far without his input. Gotta wonder if at some point he should just cut and run with his shit rather than bowing and scraping every time he shows up for an interview. I mean being humble is cool and all but fuck son...

I'm not really that familiar with Macklemore, but I don't seem to notice this issue with other white rappers like Action Bronson, El-P, or even Yelawolf. Why is it that Macklemore seems so boxed in as a *white* rapper. Did he do this to himself? Or do people really view his music in this odd racial light?

 

[Byakuya769]

Forget if he's genuine or not, what I don't like about Macky here is that his belief is dumb as fuck, that belief being that Hip Hop is an art form owned by a particular race (black people).

I understand that hip hop was a particular cultural moment incubated in a community during a time a great angst and that possibly this suffering had a hand in developing the movement but nobody owns it and nobody needs go out of their way to fight whatever. White people who rap are not 'taking' from black people.

Imagine if we have a black opera singer being asked to 'learn his place' in the scheme of opera because that was a movement sometime, someplace in Europe? Y

Stop!

Imagine that white Europeans lives in a society where blacks enslaved them, statutorily deemed them inferior, decided that their music form wasn't worthy of grammys and THEN changed their mind about all that. Now shortly after changing their mind, they then decide that the BEST TO EVER DONE IT was this one black opera singer who just happens to be way better and more unique than the scores of European Opera singers who have been around for decades and represent every niche within the genre.

That's the analogy.

Blacks don't own hip hop. And people shouldn't be mad at Macklemore for making his music (which I see as authentic), what get people mad are the scores of people showing up to proclaim the latest white rapper as the only one they can relate to or the only rapper worth listening to. Plenty of mad rappers before Eminem, and plenty of accessible poppy/conscious guys before Macklemore... they just never blew up.

 

[Dude Abides]

If he said that all the activism he's been a part of, and all the things he said in his music was wrong, you might still use what he's done to show how he's a good guy. Because it doesn't matter whether he apologizes or not, he did it. To act like everything is all good is nonsense. The dude dressed like a Hasidim while rapping about a thrift shop, which is a pretty shitty thing to do whether he regrets it or not.

I take it you've never actually seen a Hasid or a picture of one.

 

[JumpJeff84]

I'm not really that familiar with Macklemore, but I don't seem to notice this issue with other white rappers like Action Bronson, El-P, or even Yelawolf. Why is it that Macklemore seems so boxed in as a *white* rapper. Did he do this to himself? Or do people really view his music in this odd racial light?

He got waaaaay more famous than any of those guys you mentioned. Those other guys are all well-known, but they didn't blow up to the extent that Mackelmore did.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Forget if he's genuine or not, what I don't like about Macky here is that his belief is dumb as fuck, that belief being that Hip Hop is an art form owned by a particular race (black people).

I understand that hip hop was a particular cultural moment incubated in a community during a time a great angst and that possibly this suffering had a hand in developing the movement but nobody owns it and nobody needs go out of their way to fight whatever. White people who rap are not 'taking' from black people.

Imagine if we have a black opera singer being asked to 'learn his place' in the scheme of opera because that was a movement sometime, someplace in Europe? You think that's dumb and most certainly something that would be considered racist? Well, it is and it would. That's exactly whats going on here with Macklemore and he's cheered for it.

What happened to racial barriers being demolished and an all inclusive human approach being considered? With statements like "I do believe that I need to know my place" He's basically doing this weird racism on himself playing the teary eyed sorry white boy. It's fucking pathetic. And that's the kind of attitude that makes me not like him at all.

Your analogy is pretty weak. Hip hop shouldn't be owned by black people, but it does not exist in a vacuum.

 

[Valhelm]

I'm not a fan of Macklemore, but are there any white rappers who are that conscientious or political?

The frontman of the Flobots certainly is, but I'm not sure if he counts as a rapper.

 

[The Big Rig]

I take it you've never actually seen a Hasid or a picture of one.

I'm jewish. I've seen them before. Is that what you're taking issue with? Does that outfit make him look less-like a Hasidic Jew or are you just taking issue with something irrelevant to my point?

 

[Patapwn]

Stop!

Imagine that white Europeans lives in a society where blacks enslaved them, statutorily deemed them inferior, decided that their music form wasn't worthy of grammys and THEN changed their mind about all that. Now shortly after changing their mind, they then decide that the BEST TO EVER DONE IT was this one black opera singer who just happens to be way better and more unique than the scores of European Opera singers who have been around for decades and represent every niche within the genre.

That's the analogy.

Blacks don't own hip hop. And people shouldn't be mad at Macklemore for making his music (which I see as authentic), what get people mad are the scores of people showing up to proclaim the latest white rapper as the only one they can relate to or the only rapper worth listening to. Plenty of mad rappers before Eminem, and plenty of accessible poppy/conscious guys before Macklemore... they just never blew up.

Did you read his quotes? I was replying to "On White Privilege" and "On White Appropriation of Hip Hop"

Didn't see anything that relates to your analogy in those two quotes. As for your analogy in an of itself, thats a pretty cartoonish view and is not even close to being universally true. I understand that there's a bunch of Eminem stans that say only he's good at rap but nobody takes these people seriously

Your analogy is pretty weak. Hip hop shouldn't be owned by black people, but it does not exist in a vacuum.

My analogy is exactly the same with different variables inserted

 

[Toxi]

The impression I've gotten is that most of the hate against Macklemore is more about how others glorify him over equally or more talented peers than any actual failings on his part.

I pay almost zero attention to hip hop and music in general though, so maybe I'm missing something.

 

[IrishNinja]

yikes @ all this

and that's why I won't listen to him. Moron.

...what the shit

 

[Byakuya769]

Did you read his quotes? I was replying to "On White Privilege" and "On White Appropriation of Hip Hop"

Didn't see anything that relates to your analogy in those two quotes. As for your analogy in an of itself, thats a pretty cartoonish view and is not even close to being universally true. I understand that there's a bunch of Eminem stans that say only he's good at rap but nobody takes these people seriously


My analogy is exactly the same with different variables inserted

Make a shitty analogy and dig in, brehs.

A rapper doesn't outsell pretty much every one of their peers with only a few oddballs proclaiming them as the best.

And you made it clear that you don't understand white appropriation.

 

[Lime]

I respect Macklemore for at least having the conversation as well as telling people to listen more and knowing their place of power in a society characterized as a white supremacy. Those aspects are really important and fundamental for the topic.

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

and that's why I won't listen to him. Moron.

that's why?

 

[Dude Abides]

I'm jewish. I've seen them before. Is that what you're taking issue with? Does that outfit make him look less-like a Hasidic Jew or are you just taking issue with something irrelevant to my point?

Hasidim don't wear flamboyant gold shirts, they have earlocks, and they always have their heads covered in public. The last two in particular are kind of key. Whatever he was dressing as it certainly wasn't a Hasid.

 

[Chichikov]

Good to see people here standing up for poor white people trying to make it out in hip hop, finally, someone stand up for the little man.

Anyway, while I'm not a huge fan of his music, Macklemore's heart in the right place, especially when it comes to this issue (it's not the first time he addressed it) and I agree completely.
Also, acknowledging white appropriation of hip hop does not mean that white people can't or shouldn't do hip-hop (it's not like he's retiring or anything), it's quite literally the least you can do.
That whole "but you're erecting race barriers" is some weak-ass concern trolling, just like when similar arguments are brought to quelch discussion on white-privilege or affirmative action.

 

[Blackstarhat]

Eminem raped his mother?

"Oh, now he's raping his own mother, abusing a whore / Snorting coke, and we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?" Eminem- kill you

 

[Patapwn]

Make a shitty analogy and dig in, brehs.

A rapper doesn't outsell pretty much every one of their peers with only a few oddballs proclaiming them as the best.

And you made it clear that you don't understand white appropriation.

How was my analogy shitty and how have I made it clear I don't understand 'white appropriation'? Its very easy to make claims, a little more difficult to substantiate them, you'll find this out soon.

As for Eminem success, you're right. He was successful simply for being white. It's not like he was to his credit pretty great and hit the right cord at the right time or anything like that. And all those white people buying Kanye and Jay Z must have been feeling especially guilty that day

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Honestly, Mackerel is the only rapper with something to say.

 

[Desperado]

Q-Tip made a series of tweets about a week ago in response to Iggy Azalea and I think it seems relevant to this topic.

"HipHop is a artistic and socio-political movement/culture that sprang from the disparate ghettos of NY in the early 70's Coming off the heels of the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT and approaching the end of the Vietnam war it was a crossroads 4 America specially for blacks in the US our neighborhoods were PROLIFERATED w/a rush of HEROINE."

"Our school systems here in NY dungeon traps with light for learning… blk men some of whom didn't return from tours of duty n the ones who did came w/war baggage (agent orange, addiction, ect..)… these men had families but due to these events and throw into the mix the public emasculation… they proved to be handicapped parents. The surrogate parents? The STREETS… the streets of gangs, crimes, and the hustlers coddled us and swept us up."

"But! Being a spirited, rhythmic & expressive people music art dance outlined our existence… it proved a way for us to exhault to scream to dance to laugh and find OUR VOICE… we weren't at the time skilled musicians as kids. We had records, turntables, ideas and INGENUITY being natural chemist we took from whatever was availed to us and we created something mighty and special."

"We cut breakbeats back n forth we took a hybrid of Jamaican toasting along w/ radio jock rap( hank Spann, Gary Byrd, ect.) and we put our rap down.. it was a neighborhood thing really. Black and Latino Kids were carving out their space and it became infectious… eventually Keith Cowboy coined the phrase hiphop . Yrs later the first rap record was recorded and now we r moving."

"But during these strides this country still had the monster of racism and racial insensitivity breathing and ruling… believe it or not young black n Latino lives specifically weren't acknowledged in mainstream American culture unless Of course.. the convo was abt gangs , being criminals or uneducated. And hey! Like I stated early our families were rushed our schools sucked and we were left to put devices to survive… but HIPHOP showed that we had DEPTH, fire, and BRILLANCE… the music was undeniable! It moved from NY N became national and even GLOBAL."

"Hiphop now was FOR EVERYBODY!! All of those who cld relate to the roots, the spirit, the history, the energy.. It reached YOU… it touched your spirit n took u up. We magnetized you! That's what BRILLANCE does… now u are fulfilling your dreams … BUT! you have to take into account the HISTORY as you move underneath the banner of hiphop. As I said before… hiphop is fun it's vile it's dance it's traditional it's light hearted but 1 thing it can never detach itself from is being a SOCIO-Political movement."

"U may ask why … Well once you are born black your existence I believe is joined with socio-political epitaph and philos based on the tangled and treacherous history SLAVERY alone this is the case it never leaves our conversation… Ever. WeAther in our universities our dinner tables our studios or jail cells… the effects still resononates with us. It hurts… We get emotional and angry and melancholy… did u know president Clinton was the ONLY PRESIDENT to apologize for it? did u know that remnants of slavery exist today thru white privilege? When certain "niceties" r extended your way because of how u look? Isn't that crazy?"

"I say this 2 say u are a hiphop artist who has the right 2 express herself however she wishes… this is not a chastisement this is not admonishment at ALL this is just one artist reaching to another hoping to spark insight into the field you r in. I say this in the spirit of a hopeful healthy dialogue that maybe one day we can continue… I've been on twitter a long time and this will probably be my last series of tweets pretty much but I'm Kool with it as long as I got to share this w u. Zzzzzzz's up! Peace!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...ks-_n_6367046.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000047

 

[Byakuya769]

How was my analogy shitty and how have I made it clear I don't understand 'white appropriation'? Its very easy to make claims, a little more difficult to substantiate them, you'll find this out soon.

Meh. I get paid six figures to do that. What I don't get paid to do is spend time convincing people that this...

As for Eminem success, you're right. He was successful simply for being white.

isn't a legitimate reading of what I said or anything but indicative of how far off base you are in this conversation.

Like seriously, how did you take my refutation of your statement, " I understand that there's a bunch of Eminem stans that say only he's good at rap but nobody takes these people seriously" as an racial attack of ANY AND ALL of his success?

 

[Currygan]

does he even rap, tho? All I hear is him talking, and talking, and talking

 

[The Big Rig]

Hasidim don't wear flamboyant gold shirts, they have earlocks, and they always have their heads covered in public. The last two in particular are kind of key. Whatever he was dressing as it certainly wasn't a Hasid.

Congrats, you can describe a hasidic Jew. Do you actually have anything to say regarding my point or are you trying to say that he wasn't playing a stereotype. If so, why apologize in the first place?

 

[Dude Abides]

Congrats, you can describe a hasidic Jew. Do you actually have anything to say regarding my point or are you trying to say that he wasn't playing a stereotype. If so, why apologize in the first place?

Is this how you say "Yeah I was incorrect in what I said" without quite saying it because you want to save face on the internet? Since your point was based on the assertion that he dressed like a Hasidic Jew, and that's factually incorrect, I'd say my response was directly responsive and showed that your point was premised on a factual error.

As to what he dressed as, there isn't really a stereotype of Jews with tight-fitting suits, loud gold shirts, and shaggy bowl cuts with huge beards. If anything, he looks more like a stereotype of a young Western urban Arab, except for the beard and possibly the wig. My guess is he's kinda dumb and his account of just grabbing stuff without thinking about what it looked like is the truth.

 

[Nappuccino]

Congrats, you can describe a hasidic Jew. Do you actually have anything to say regarding my point or are you trying to say that he wasn't playing a stereotype. If so, why apologize in the first place?

As many have recognized before, it's often important to apologize for accidents. When someone sees what you're doing from an entirely different perspective and has a unwanted negative reaction, you apologize. Unless you're incredibly conceited or a sociopath.

 

[Patapwn]

Meh. I get paid six figures to do that. What I don't get paid to do is spend time convincing people that this...

isn't a legitimate reading of what I said or anything but indicative of how far off base you are in this conversation.

Like seriously, how did you take my refutation of your statement, " I understand that there's a bunch of Eminem stans that say only he's good at rap but nobody takes these people seriously" as an racial attack of ANY AND ALL of his success?

Listen, we're in an argument on an internet forum, that's where we are. I known it sounds kind of stupid but we're here now and should just accept this fact. I think I asked a pretty fair number of questions, "why is my analogy shitty and why why don't I understand white appropriation?". If you don't want to answer them, that's fine, we'll move on I guess.

Imagine that white Europeans lives in a society where blacks enslaved them, statutorily deemed them inferior, decided that their music form wasn't worthy of grammys and THEN changed their mind about all that. Now shortly after changing their mind, they then decide that the BEST TO EVER DONE IT was this one black opera singer who just happens to be way better and more unique than the scores of European Opera singers who have been around for decades and represent every niche within the genre.

This is your description of society but with an insertion of white rapper with black opera singer. The basic conclusion is that race is playing a big almost insulting part in designating who is quality/the best. In response I said I don't really agree with this and in regards to the supposed white king of rap...

I understand that there's a bunch of Eminem stans that say only he's good at rap but nobody takes these people seriously

You said...

A rapper doesn't outsell pretty much every one of their peers with only a few oddballs proclaiming them as the best.

I took this as you doubling down on your analogy which I don't think is very good and I gave a sarcastic reply in response, sorry. So, do you think Eminem is so successful because of his race? You're analogy screamed "yes" but what is your opinion?

 

[Byakuya769]

I took this as you doubling down on your analogy which I don't think is very good and I gave a sarcastic reply in response, sorry. So, do you think Eminem is so successful because of his race? You're analogy screamed "yes" but what is your opinion?

Unabashedly, YES. Black Eminem wouldn't have went Diamond. Black Eminen is signed to white Eminem and I'm not sure he's ever even went gold.

 

[RoninChaos]

Man. I remember how hostile people were to Eminem when he first came out. Mack ain't getting a tenth of that.

Yelawolf deserves more play.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Unabashedly, YES. Black Eminem wouldn't have went Diamond. Black Eminen is signed to white Eminem and I'm not sure he's ever even went gold.

He was definitely relatable to White audiences and had the shock factor, but lets not avoid the fact that Country Grammer (Nelly, 1999) sold 8.5m units, Chronic 2001 (Dr. Dre, 1999) sold 7.6m units, Stankonia (Outkast, 2000) sold 4m+ units, The Blueprint (Jay-Z, 2001) sold 3m+ units (despite releasing on 9/11 2001), The Black Album (Jay-Z, 2003) sold 3.5m+, The College Dropout (Kanye West, 2004) sold 4m+, and Get Ruch or Die Tryin' (50 Cent, 2003) sold 12m worldwide. During Eminem's run (I consider 1999-2004 to be his peak) there were plenty of Black rappers selling a lot of records. It was just that Eminem had the shock factor, the skills, and the radio locked down.

For Comparison:
Slim Shady LP (1999) - ~5.5m units
Marshall Mathers LP (2000) - ~11m units (~25m units worldwide, holy shit)
The Eminem Show (2002) - ~10.5m units (~23m units worldwide, hot damn)
Encore (2004) - ~5.5m units (~15m worldwide)

* All figures are mostly US sales numbers unless otherwise stated.

 

[Dereck]

Unabashedly, YES. Black Eminem wouldn't have went Diamond. Black Eminen is signed to white Eminem and I'm not sure he's ever even went gold.

If Eminem was black, he would have went double Styrofoam.

 

[Byakuya769]

He was definitely relatable to White audiences and had the shock factor, but lets not avoid the fact that Country Grammer (Nelly, 1999) sold 8.5m units, Chronic 2001 (Dr. Dre, 1999) sold 7.6m units, Stankonia (Outkast, 2000) sold 4m+ units, The Blueprint (Jay-Z, 2001) sold 3m+ units (despite releasing on 9/11 2001), The Black Album (Jay-Z, 2003) sold 3.5m+, The College Dropout (Kanye West, 2004) sold 4m+, and Get Ruch or Die Tryin' (50 Cent, 2003) sold 12m worldwide. During Eminem's run (I consider 1999-2004 to be his peak) there were plenty of Black rappers selling a lot of records. It was just that Eminem had the shock factor, the skills, and the radio locked down.

For Comparison:
Slim Shady LP (1999) - ~5.5m units
Marshall Mathers LP (2000) - ~11m units (~25m units worldwide, holy shit)
The Eminem Show (2002) - ~10.5m units (~23m units worldwide, hot damn)
Encore (2004) - ~5.5m units (~15m worldwide)

* All figures are mostly US sales numbers unless otherwise stated.

How does this help the point you're trying to make? In a genre that is predominately black, a white artist pretty much consistently outsold them all.

This may be the first time I've seen what I've said met with skepticism.

Even Eminem himself has admitted as much.

The only artist on your list that outsold eminem is an artist that he cosigned and marketed heavily.