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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|

kirblar

Member
Maro did say something about RtR being more Spike focused, whereas Gatecrash was a set for Johnnys, so maybe Dragon's Maze is the set for Timmys?
This is what I feared. Psychographics taken to a terrible extreme.

Boros is the spike guild! They get the efficient cards! Simic is for Johnnies, so we don't have to bother making cards for Spikes for them!

(This is an absolutely terrible way to design, btw.)
 

Hero

Member
This is what I feared. Psychographics taken to a terrible extreme.

Boros is the spike guild! They get the efficient cards! Simic is for Johnnies, so we don't have to bother making cards for Spikes for them!

(This is an absolutely terrible way to design, btw.)

I wouldn't mind it if it was a block or set that didn't matter but for a block that revolves around 2-color combinations it's really shitty that the first 5 guilds in RTR got more competitive cards while arguably only one guild in GTC did.
 
Maro did say something about RtR being more Spike focused, whereas Gatecrash was a set for Johnnys, so maybe Dragon's Maze is the set for Timmys?

How was Gatecrash a set for Johnnies? I'm a Johnny and there are like 3-4 cards that are really great, definitely, but there are also a giant BLARGH ME TIMMY cycle of 7 mana Primordials, several guild leaders who are definitely in Hulk Smash Timmy territory (Borborygmos, Aurelia, Obzedat) and Enter the Infinite. And Giant Adephage, Lord of the Void and other assorted Timmy dorks.

Boros is the spike guild! They get the efficient cards!

I don't get this. Battalion is a mechanic in that its inherently kind of weak in Constructed and Spikes are naturally very suspicious of win-more mechanics that involve getting 3 creatures into the red-zone successfully.

Some of the Boros cards seem nicely powered up but I think it's being overrated a little.

Whereas, cards like Experiment One & Zegana are classic Spike cards.
 

kirblar

Member
How was Gatecrash a set for Johnnies? I'm a Johnny and there are like 3-4 cards that are really great, definitely, but there are also a giant BLARGH ME TIMMY cycle of 7 mana Primordials, several guild leaders who are definitely in Hulk Smash Timmy territory (Borborygmos, Aurelia, Obzedat) and Enter the Infinite. And Giant Adephage, Lord of the Void and other assorted Timmy dorks.
Boby's a secret Spike card.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
How was Gatecrash a set for Johnnies?

Image.ashx
 
I just made a deck of boros creatures, gideon, and a bunch of enchantments (ethereal armors, flying stuff, blind obedience, oblivion rings). Does this sound like it would be decent for casual play, or is it stupid in a way that I'm not noticing. (I figure all the doublestrike, first strike, etc battalion things will benefit from being pumped up by enchantments)
 

rCIZZLE

Member
There was a FNM one that is over $100, foil, and uses the classic art. The art on the judge promo looks horrible and since it's a very cheap card (~$5) non-promo, I'm expecting it to be expensive even if the art is universally rejected.
 
Oh yeah..there was a FNM version of StP that is foil as well..that also goes for an ungodly amount. I don't like that art either....
 

alternade

Member
De-lurking to say that mine come in on Saturday, and I'm drafting next week, so I'll have an update sometime thereafter.

I bought enough for a box, and think I'm getting sent an unopened box (at least, that's what a rep told someone on the massdrop reddit), but will report back with details.

Just got mine! Pulled a foil Deathrite Shaman, Vraska, isperia, necropolis regent, loxodon smitter, Rakdos's Return
 

noquarter

Member
Finally a foil StP.....(judge foil)

I dislike the art. looks like some golf club. I prefer the Ice Age and DvD one.
I really dislike that art and am hoping that enough people like this art over the FNM one to give me a window to get that one for $75~.

Really think that art is ugly.

And nice pulls above. The foil Deathrite is like the best pull you can get in RTR. If it was mapped at least they didn't pull all the foils as well.
 

kirblar

Member
I really dislike that art and am hoping that enough people like this art over the FNM one to give me a window to get that one for $75~.

Really think that art is ugly.

And nice pulls above. The foil Deathrite is like the best pull you can get in RTR. If it was mapped at least they didn't pull all the foils as well.
With the pulls he got I doubt it was mapped.
 

rCIZZLE

Member
Any gaffers have LEDs for trade? I need to get 3 more and don't really feel like dropping 170+ on ebay. I've got a Volcanic Island, Savannah, some zen fetchlands, and some other stuff. Figured I'd try here instead of the buy/sell/trade thread since I doubt there's much mtg trading going on there.
 

Negator

Member
Trying to get Aurelias early. That card is going to be insanely expensive once people figure out how absurdly powerful she is.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I'm 99% sure they will. Someone asked back when RTR released why there were guildleaders but no champions like OG Ravnica had and the response was something like "there's still two sets to go ;)"

Well, after all the broken cycles between RTR and GTC, I'm not holding my breath. Who knows what they're going to do.
 

Lucario

Member
With the pulls he got I doubt it was mapped.

if it's an entire box? Probably was.

The most expensive nonfoil card there was ~$6, and it doesn't look like he got a single shockland out of the entire box. It isn't worth mapping $6 mythics.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Hmmm, those sound pretty interesting. Anywhere you suggest to read up on them?

Okay, if you want I can talk about B/G zombies. Not to brag or anything, but that was totally my idea. People here laughed. The deck isn't winning tournaments....yet, but my W-L record with it is very, very good.

Non-negotiable:
4 x Woodland Cemetery - Mana fixing
4 x Overgrown Tomb - Mana fixing, round off with 4-6 forests, 10-12 swamps
4 x Geralf's Messenger - Best zombie in standard
4 x Gravecrawler - second best zombie in standard, best 1 drop
4 x Lotleth Troll - Trample, regenerates and gravecrawler's BFF

You Totally Need These:
4 x Dreg Mangler - Hasty 3/3 isn't something zombies should have.
4 x Rancor - Makes anything, even a DRS a lethal threat
4 x Tragic Slip - Zombies die. Make them pay for that though.

Situational But Awesome:
Deathsrite Shaman - Great against reanimator and anything spell heavy. AKA most of the meta right now. Not a great mana dork in standard and not so great against aggro. But players are scared of him and you can use him to cheat out their removal.

Abrupt Decay - Those early threats can slow down zombies where midrange could eat you alive. AD helps clear a path.

Blood Artist - See Tragic Slip.

YMMV:
Stab Wound - Can be boarded in against decks heavy on fatties.
Bump in the Night - Nobody ever sees those 3 points of direct burn coming from a black deck. Used to great effect, personally, against decks that want to grind you down.
 

alternade

Member
if it's an entire box? Probably was.

The most expensive nonfoil card there was ~$6, and it doesn't look like he got a single shockland out of the entire box. It isn't worth mapping $6 mythics.
I also got 3 shock lands so m happy. I bought a full box so.....
 
When you say "it's played in like 2 formats" do you mean Storm or Flusterstorm?

Regardless, Flusterstorm is blue, which doesn't solve the problem :p Blue tempo decks already have enough ways to deal with Storm by countering the enablers while applying strong pressure, though of course good Storm decks put up a fight (ANT, TES) and bad Storm decks roll over (Belcher, SI). Cards that "stop" Storm already exist (Mindbreak Trap, Rule of Law, Ethersworn Canonist, etc.); they don't actually solve the underlying problem though, which is why they don't work.

The issue is that "fair decks", including slower blue control decks and things like Loam or Junk, tend to be very soft to Storm because they like playing longer, durdlier games and lack either the means to interact with the Storm player or the clock to make that interaction relevant. "Fair aggro" decks like Zoo are also in this position; they are fast but not nearly as fast as Storm combo, so they can't race, yet racing is really their only option. Often you have to put so much work into your sideboard to get it prepared for Storm decks that you lose a lot of flexibility on anything else (or gimp your own clock), and you still having a bad game one win%.

Storm is an inherently non-interactive deck because it likes to operate entirely on chaining instants and sorceries on the stack. And the way the color pie is designed, this inherently limits most colors' options in dealing with it. Hate bears and hate enchantments have never worked well at dealing with Storm, even after years of printing different and varied hate bears. They are way too easy to just sculpt around and go off, they are a little slow, and they are often super narrow and don't do much else. The only really strong ones are ones like Thalia which throttle the entire stack.

You bring up some strong points, but the decks you've mentioned have a strong black presence. Cards like thoughtseize, duress, and even that 1 b discard converted mana cost 3 or less (can't think of the name right now) really wreak havoc on their ability to be able to "go off".

I'm not saying it isn't a viable deck mind you, but I would say it isn't in the top 5 of any format save maybe pauper.
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
Image.ashx

Image.ashx


Then you attack with a few bloodrushes and/or Boros Charm. I'm considering signing up for a Gatecrash League at my LGS, just so I can do this insanity.
 
How was Gatecrash a set for Johnnies? I'm a Johnny and there are like 3-4 cards that are really great, definitely, but there are also a giant BLARGH ME TIMMY cycle of 7 mana Primordials, several guild leaders who are definitely in Hulk Smash Timmy territory (Borborygmos, Aurelia, Obzedat) and Enter the Infinite. And Giant Adephage, Lord of the Void and other assorted Timmy dorks.



I don't get this. Battalion is a mechanic in that its inherently kind of weak in Constructed and Spikes are naturally very suspicious of win-more mechanics that involve getting 3 creatures into the red-zone successfully.

Some of the Boros cards seem nicely powered up but I think it's being overrated a little.

Whereas, cards like Experiment One & Zegana are classic Spike cards.
I actually misremembered the quote. He was only talking about the cycle of Primoridials vs. the cycle of uncounterables in RtR. My apologies. :p
MaRo said:
As the Return to Ravnica cycle was aimed squarely at Spike, I decided to point Gatecrash's cycle at a different group, one near and dear to my heart—Johnnies.
Now whether or not Primordials get your Johnny juices flowing, that's another discussion.
 

Yeef

Member
Now whether or not Primordials get your Johnny juices flowing, that's another discussion.
The primordials are for Timmies, not Johnnies. The original cycle was for Johnnies, but they cut all of them except the green one, which got moved up to mythic and given trample (Giant Adephage) then made a Timmy cycle in its place (the primordials).


The entire cycle was cards that created token copies whenever they dealt combat damage to the opponent. Where are the other four? Well, they didn't make it. The cards weren't playing all that well in playtests, as getting the cards through to trigger proved hard to do. In addition, they polled low in our internal Rare Poll. (Every set, we ask Magic-playing employees to give us their first impressions of the cards.) The development team decided to take the best one (the green one), make it bigger, give it trample to help it get through, and then scrap the other four. Giant Adephage, the green one, was then moved up to mythic rare.

This left the set with a cycle-sized hole. Dave Humpherys (the lead developer for Gatecrash) realized the set was actually a little light for yet another psychographic—Timmies. Well, not all Timmies, but multiplayer Timmies in particular. There are many ways to play Magic,and we try to make sure that as many formats as possible get representation in each set.

The Primordials were created specifically for the various types of multiplayer play. When each Primordial enters the battlefield it does something negative to each opponent. I'm curious to see how they get used.
 
The primordials are for Timmies, not Johnnies. The original cycle was for Johnnies, but they cut all of them except the green one, which got moved up to mythic and given trample (Giant Adephage)

Which basically made it a Timmy card anyway (giving it trample basically takes all the Johnny out of it). Spawnwrithe was a nice Johnny card though (it had trample, but it's trample on a 2/2).
then made a Timmy cycle in its place (the primordials).
Yep.
 

JulianImp

Member
Another great limited combo:

Image.ashx

Image.ashx

That one is a little harder to pull off, though, since it requires two uncommons.

Gatecrash appears to have too few ways to deal with fliers outside of running them yourself. They aren't as effective as in RTR (most of them have two toughness, making them die when blocked by another flier). All green has against them is an uncommon combat trick and the comon 1/3 frog-crocodile (which can be good, but takes a while to get going). Most games I played were ground-stalled games where whoever managed to play a flier first would inevitably win, barring the other player getting a flier of his own or removal.

As far as individual card evaluations go, I really liked the uncommon 1/1 extort thrull for B and the 1/1 common regenerator in Orzhov, and the Disentomb with cypher was incredibly useful at clogging up the ground while swinging through the air while repeating extort triggers. I actually won a game by playing the zombie wall that sacrifices stuff to get deathtouch, promptly killed off one of my 1-drops, swung trough the air to get the 1-drop back and played it with extort for the win.

I think several cypher cards are actually good. Despite being expensive to cast, they can be game-swingers when coupled with blue's unblockables (the dimir hybrid and the one that bounces one of your creatures when played, both at common) or any fliers at all, and it can get some more evasion in the form of Simic's uncommon unblockable and the 3/1 drake with flying and trample (I'm not entirely surem, but I think you could fetch the drake back with an encoded disentomb if it gets blocked and killed but manages to trample some damage to trigger cypher). Repeatable tapping, card drawing or disentombing can be really good.

So far, I've hear people hating on blue, but I think evasive creatures plus cypher cards could be a really potent combination. That Simic oculus looks ridiculously powerful as well; even as a 1/3 for 1U it can block most early ground creatures, and it gets downright disgusting if you're playing green.
 
The primordials are for Timmies, not Johnnies. The original cycle was for Johnnies, but they cut all of them except the green one, which got moved up to mythic and given trample (Giant Adephage) then made a Timmy cycle in its place (the primordials).

Well shit, forget I said anything then...


I guess as far as actual Johnny cards go, Biovisionary seems pretty cool.
 

JulianImp

Member
I'm somewhat of a Jhonny myself, and there were a few cards I was interested in, mostly in Simic colors. The one I liked the most is Ooze Flux (having N evolve guys in play, it basically reads "1G: put a N/N ooze token into play"), but there's also the land that clones other lands. Lazav, despite being mostly a spike-ish card, seems interesting in that he doesn't care about where the creature came from, unlike Cemetery Pucca, an older card.

If I manage to get my hands on enough Ooze Fluxes, I'll definitely be playing a Simic deck with Experiment One, the 0/1 flier, Shambleshark and other support cards such as Strangleroot Geist, Wolfir Avenger and Ulvenwald Tracker. I guess I could fit black in for golgari's scavenge cards and other nasty stuff such as Gravecrawler and my lone copy of Liliana of the Veil, but I'd want to keep the deck mostly aggro and don't have too many dual lands, so I'll have to see what I can get my hands on for the Launch FNM and the Game Day (by the way, those full-art simic guildmages look great!).
 

JulianImp

Member
So, Mark Rosewater apologized that Gatecrash didn't give us an ooze lord, stating that the Simic were the perfect opportunity for printing one... hopefully that only means they've saved it for Dragon's Maze, since it's my favorite tribe (seriously).

I've been collecting Oozes for a while, and it'd be great to finally get a lord for them. Experiment Kraj was the closest they ever came to printing an ooze lord. I got my hands on all oozes and ooze-related spells (yes, even Voidslime), plus a few non-ooze cards like Mire's Toll and Mire Boa (because both ooze and mire were translated to "cieno" in spanish, so we got them as "Peaje del cieno" and "Boa del cieno"). It's a fun tribe to collect, mostly because not many collect them compared to angels, dragons and/or vampires.

So, do any GAFfers keep any special collections of their own?
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
So, Mark Rosewater apologized that Gatecrash didn't give us an ooze lord, stating that the Simic were the perfect opportunity for printing one... hopefully that only means they've saved it for Dragon's Maze, since it's my favorite tribe (seriously).

I've been collecting Oozes for a while, and it'd be great to finally get a lord for them. Experiment Kraj was the closest they ever came to printing an ooze lord. I got my hands on all oozes and ooze-related spells (yes, even Voidslime), plus a few non-ooze cards like Mire's Toll and Mire Boa (because both ooze and mire were translated to "cieno" in spanish, so we got them as "Peaje del cieno" and "Boa del cieno"). It's a fun tribe to collect, mostly because not many collect them compared to angels, dragons and/or vampires.

So, do any GAFfers keep any special collections of their own?

Zombies. Gotta catch 'em all!
 

Jarate

Banned
Idk what it is, but last night I could not draw mana to save my life, and when I did, I drew like 4 mana in a row for an aggro deck in a hand where I started off with 3-4 mana

is this the magic gods telling me to move onto a different deck?
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Idk what it is, but last night I could not draw mana to save my life, and when I did, I drew like 4 mana in a row for an aggro deck in a hand where I started off with 3-4 mana

is this the magic gods telling me to move onto a different deck?

It might be the magic gods telling you to reanalyze your mana base. Or else it's just variance.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
B-b-but MaRo told me randomness is fun!

Half joking, half serious.
 
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