That's lower than buylist prices so it's a safe investment. Don't buy with the expectation that JTMS will get unbanned though since nobody knows if or when that will happen.
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
That's lower than buylist prices so it's a safe investment. Don't buy with the expectation that JTMS will get unbanned though since nobody knows if or when that will happen.
If he and BBE get unbanned (and it would be a package deal) it would likely be close to MM2. 4 Jace is 4 Jace though, hard to go wrong.
Fragamemnon
Member
I really don't think Jace is getting unbanned-he's only held in check in Legacy due to wasteland, and modern has nothing even remotely close to that kind of effect. He's all over Vintage, a format where you can play with other fair cards like tolarian academy and yawgmoth's will, and has been mentioned repeatedly as a candidate for restriction in that format (That hasn't happened because Workshops keep Jace decks in check).
Modern would just ramp into him (see the old RUG "Two Explores" deck from ALARA/ZEN std, where that deck was able to compete with freakin' jace+SFM decks) or play blue-based board control into jace as a finisher.
Modern would just ramp into him (see the old RUG "Two Explores" deck from ALARA/ZEN std, where that deck was able to compete with freakin' jace+SFM decks) or play blue-based board control into jace as a finisher.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Blue White Flight
Version 1.0
Creatures:
4x Cloudfin Raptor
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Lyev Skyknight
4x Akroan Horse
2x Ephara, God of the Polis
2x Prognostic Sphinx
Instants & Sorceries:
3x Swan Song
1x Rapid Hybridization
4x Azorius Charm
Other:
4x Detention Sphere
2x Bident of Thassa
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
Land:
3x Mutavault
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Temple of Enlightenment
7 Island
6 Plains
Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Archetype of Imagination
3x Gainsay
3x Negate
2x Aetherize
2x Council of the Absolute
2x Ratchet Bomb
Version 1.0
Creatures:
4x Cloudfin Raptor
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Lyev Skyknight
4x Akroan Horse
2x Ephara, God of the Polis
2x Prognostic Sphinx
Instants & Sorceries:
3x Swan Song
1x Rapid Hybridization
4x Azorius Charm
Other:
4x Detention Sphere
2x Bident of Thassa
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
Land:
3x Mutavault
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Temple of Enlightenment
7 Island
6 Plains
Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Archetype of Imagination
3x Gainsay
3x Negate
2x Aetherize
2x Council of the Absolute
2x Ratchet Bomb
divisionbyzorro
Member
http://brainstormbrewery.com/the-unwilling-speculators/
A pretty good write-up of the state of Modern prices. The format has always been really expensive to get into, and it's just getting crazier. There's a part of me that really just wants to monitor the prices online, look for the peak, and just bail entirely. I've basically transitioned into an entirely limited player on MTGO out of necessity anyway (just not enough time to practice constructed - even though I just haven't quite been able to let go of playing Twin here and there in 2-man queues when I need to scratch the itch); I could finance a lot of drafts with my Modern collection...
A pretty good write-up of the state of Modern prices. The format has always been really expensive to get into, and it's just getting crazier. There's a part of me that really just wants to monitor the prices online, look for the peak, and just bail entirely. I've basically transitioned into an entirely limited player on MTGO out of necessity anyway (just not enough time to practice constructed - even though I just haven't quite been able to let go of playing Twin here and there in 2-man queues when I need to scratch the itch); I could finance a lot of drafts with my Modern collection...
divisionbyzorro
Member
At one point I got bored and bought 100 of them from PennyBot on MTGO. Bots are buying them for 0.03 each, so...profit?
Kird Ape pre-ban in 1.X vindicated??
Speculators HATE him. Learn this one neat trick.
The cost of entering either eternal format has been becoming out of control over the past couple years. $140 Cradles and Goyfs, $190 Seas, $73 Ports, $90 Wastelands, $60 Mistys and Tarns... makes me not want to trade/sell any of my cards for fear of never being able to afford reentry.
What I paid for my playset of Wastelands wouldn't even pay for half of one card today, lol.
For eternal formats, WOTC is tied up due to the reserve list, and thus can't ever make Legacy more than a rare GP event.
Modern, on the other hand, is a common GP format, is a PTQ format, a PT format, and a FNM format. It is not restricted by the reserve list.
They really need to get more reprints out, in standard legal sets. If Thoughtsieze was not in Theros or MM, it would be a 100 card easy right now.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Modern Masters was woefully underprinted. I get that they were trying to avoid another Chronicles situation, but by not printing more, those cards have just kept creeping up in price, putting even more pressure on the situation. I realize it wouldn't have helped for a lot of these cards, but they didn't open the pressure valves enough the first time.
Moderns Masters 2 need to be printed out the wazoo. Either that, or they need to get really liberal with reprints into Standard.
blindrocket
Member
We may get the deck list tomorrow. What do you think will be included?
Monoblack? 4x Pack Rats? Thoughtseize? Maybe a whip of Erebos...
They usually don't give a play set of something, usually. I could maybe see Pack Rat though.
Event Decks come with 10 rares.
Chronicles was almost 20 years ago, I kind of don't get why it's still some existential threat to the company. They aren't as beholden to the people they were beholden to when they printed that, and it's pretty explicit that your cards can and will be reprinted now after the abandonment of the Reserved List.
divisionbyzorro
Member
They view it as one of the biggest mistakes they've ever made, and they're determined to never make a similar mistake again, regardless of whether or not circumstances have changed.
It probably wouldn't even be a problem if they just printed everything at "rare". My LGS maybe had 4-6 Tarmogoyfs opened which just isn't enough if increasing availability was the real goal.
The game has been billed as a Collectible Card Game, that I think is the big thing. They might not add to the reserve list, but they are aware that a portion of their market is people who collect as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if they try to keep the number of cards down just to force people to play different decks and try to breed creativity. MaRo likes to point out that restrictions will force you to try something else and new.
Personally I'm glad that they keep it sort of collectible. YuGiOh lost me with that. Got really tired of opening up something good just to have it reprinted in a tin, or at a lesser rarity. I also would like to see them add random cards to the Reserve List, just some of the crap rares they print, like Charmbreaker Devils or Gruul Ragebeast. I don't like how people always try to make a quick buck on the game, but am glad that my binders from when I was in middle school did gain some value.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Like Blue White Flight ver.1.1!
Speaking of which, what do you guys think the new big decks are gonna be? Or the most format-warping BNG cards?
I think mono-blue is gonna drop a card or two and splash white for Azorius Charms and Detention Spheres.
Mono-black obviously is in a solid spot with Bile Blight, Gild and Drown in Sorrow. I think more people are going to splash white for Blood Baron than before.
Azorius Control is even dumber than before with their temple and Fated Retribution
Boros and Gruul midrange get stronger with Brimaz/Purphoros combo and Xenagod, respectively.
People might get hit from left field by Junk Auras or Burn.
Most format-warping cards prediction:
- Temple of Enlightenment(makes Azorius or u/B splashes much more consistent, and Detention Sphere is the best removal in the format full of indestructible creatures, weapons and planeswalkers)
- Bile Blight(hits all the key creatures, neutralizes golgari charm and boros charm)
- Xenagod(big and angry things are going to happen. the gruul answer to Supreme Verdict)
- Brimaz(mostly just in creature-creature matchups, evades Bile Blight, generates CA and fits into Boros and Azorius lists with other strong cards)
- Fated Conflagration(red hero's downfall)
Cards getting better:
- Blood Baron(the best new cards are white and black)
- Prognostic Sphinx(evades bile blight and can gain hexproof)
- Purphoros(perfect combo with Brimaz)
- Maze's End(we all know it's happening)
- Stormbreath Dragon(evades bile blight, protection from brimaz while in the same deck with him)
Cards getting worse:
- Elspeth(more ways to kill planeswalkers, tokens more easily dealt with)
- Nightveil Specter(bile blight)
- Pack Rat(bile blight)
- Desecration Demon(a result of decks in general getting tighter, plus brimaz is gonna be annoying)
- Master of Waves(bile blight)
Most format-warping cards:
Cards getting better:
Cards getting wrose:
Sleeper cards:
- Bile Blight - takes care of everything early to mid game at just 2cmc. It'll push aggro out the picture with Drown in Sorrow helping in the sb.
- Brimaz - Fits in white weenies, boros, b/w midrange, g/w aggro...It just fits in anything that runs white! I already said when this card was first spoiled that I'm looking most forward to it and the pricing I'm seeing on it shows many others agree lol.
- Xenagos - G/R monsters is a thing. It's creatures will survive Bile Blight and gaining haste vs control thanks to Xenagos? This deck got a whole lot better.
- Temple of Enlightment - Same reasons you listed
- Revoke Existence - Gets rid of about everything important (gods, d-shperes, underworld connection)
Cards getting better:
- G/R monsters
- Detention Sphere - More decks will be able to splash for it.
- Desecration Demon - I think it actually gets better thanks to Bile Blight/Drown in Sorrow. It clears their small sac targets and forces them to take dmg or sac their bigger guys.
- Ashiok - If the meta goes mid to late range like I think it will, Ashiok will have time to ramp up. He now has a buddy with Phenax!
Cards getting wrose:
- Pack rat - will still see play in everything outside of MBD mirror matches.
- Nightveil Specter
- White Weenies
- Mono U Devotion
Sleeper cards:
- Fated Retribution - I changed my mind on this and think it may see a copy or 2 in U/W/x control
- Spirit of Labyrinth - nasty sb vs control
- Herald of Torment - I said from the beginning I wouldn't be surprised if this saw standard play and I think it still may
- Courser of Kruphix - a good body and good cost that semi thins out your deck
- Phenax god - Milling will be a thing damnit!
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yet another 2-1 in Swiss Cube with a GWu ramp monstrosity. Trounced my first two opponents (RW Aggro, Reanimator), and then got rolled in the finals by a deck with piles of discard and removal. My biggest weakness in cube is that I have to do something sweet with my deck - drafting efficient cards and winning through attrition isn't really my style when I play cube. So, for example, I first picked an Emrakul in this draft, then second picked Rofellos and ended up with a deck that could go infinite with Mirari's Wake and Palinchron, with Martial Coup and Genesis Wave as mana sinks. I was really, really soft to discard (although I did have an Obstinate Baloth for the blowouts, but it never happened) and only had a couple of pieces of removal, which was enough to make the third match not even a challenge.
But I did get to go infinite with Palinchron, cast Genesis Wave for 8+ multiple times, etc. And as I've noted before, 2-1 pays for the draft. I haven't paid to cube yet this cycle.
But I did get to go infinite with Palinchron, cast Genesis Wave for 8+ multiple times, etc. And as I've noted before, 2-1 pays for the draft. I haven't paid to cube yet this cycle.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";99804002]
Cards getting better:
Cards getting worse:
I've been noticing Blood Baron sneaking into more and more Top 8 decks. He's in Orzhov Midrange now instead of or in addition to Obzedat. He's good enough now that he was bound to find places outside of Orzhov or Esper Control. If white weenies takes off he'll become more useful still.
Cards getting better:
- Blood Baron(the best new cards are white and black)
- Prognostic Sphinx(evades bile blight and can gain hexproof)
[*]Purphoros(perfect combo with Brimaz) - Maze's End(we all know it's happening)
- Stormbreath Dragon(evades bile blight, protection from brimaz while in the same deck with him)
Cards getting worse:
- Elspeth(more ways to kill planeswalkers, tokens more easily dealt with)
- Nightveil Specter(bile blight)
- Pack Rat(bile blight)
- Desecration Demon(a result of decks in general getting tighter, plus brimaz is gonna be annoying)
- Master of Waves(bile blight)
I've been noticing Blood Baron sneaking into more and more Top 8 decks. He's in Orzhov Midrange now instead of or in addition to Obzedat. He's good enough now that he was bound to find places outside of Orzhov or Esper Control. If white weenies takes off he'll become more useful still.
They did put the list out: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1424
Seems decent for value. Desecration Demon, Hero's Downfall, Pack Rat, 2X Xathrid Necromancer and some other stuff. My approximations of value in my head suggest that works out positively.
So watched more streams... unless there is some hidden tech, I don't think Faries is going to be a real deck. It just can't do anything against Nacatl zoo, which is likely to be played by a ton of pros at the PT. It might be able to do some damage as a PTQ deck (Zoo is probably the most expensive deck in the format with it's Goyfs). The existence of the deck is probably going to be enough to drive Twin out of the format though.
blindrocket
Member
Stopped by my LGS today and purchased a Tectonic Edge for a dollar and since that was so cheap I purchased a single New Phyrexia pack for three dollars. I pulled an Elesh Norn! This time playing the pack lottery paid off.
I assume you know the real price of Edge, right?
ThLunarian
Member
Sometimes I fantasize about calling (Starcitygames/ChannelFireball/whoever) and saying "How much would it cost to buy a playset of EVERYTHING?"
Anyone care to make a rough guess? I personally have no idea. I'm talking about 4 of every unique, mass-produced, non-promo card ever printed, in at least Slightly Played condition. My guess is about 100k.
Anyone care to make a rough guess? I personally have no idea. I'm talking about 4 of every unique, mass-produced, non-promo card ever printed, in at least Slightly Played condition. My guess is about 100k.
blindrocket
Member
Yes, I do. I would have bought all that he had but he only had a single copy.
I saw that spike coming. Literally the day before it went up, I checked a lot of card sites and they were all out of stock.
divisionbyzorro
Member
More to the point, it's shocking to me how irresponsible Wizards is being with their banned list practices in general:
Wizards is essentially saying that they want to just shake up the format, and don't care about assessing impact. They've essentially admitted that banning of Nacatl and Bitterblosom were unnecessary, but that doesn't mean that unbanning them into a different metagame might not also be a mistake. The message they're sending is essentially one of "fuck it - we don't care anymore - go nuts."
- B&R updates should never happen alongside set releases as a matter of practice. They should be separated so that you can assess the impact of the B&R list outside of the impact of the new set. It doesn't matter much here when the new set is so low-impact, but in general you shouldn't be doing it that way.
- You should try not to make more than one move at a time unless its absolutely necessary. Sometimes circumstances require making multiple bans, but you should never make multiple unbans at once. Especially when they're high-impact unbans.
Wizards is essentially saying that they want to just shake up the format, and don't care about assessing impact. They've essentially admitted that banning of Nacatl and Bitterblosom were unnecessary, but that doesn't mean that unbanning them into a different metagame might not also be a mistake. The message they're sending is essentially one of "fuck it - we don't care anymore - go nuts."
Yup. It's how I caught Port.
The format kinda has a dearth of both aggro and non-Jund interactive decks. Given that Jund's probably dead in the water, the unbans make sense.
It's already about $30 in value for the cards you listed alone. I will probably end up picking one up.
You're right. It feels quite irresponsible. Particularly, because DRS is a card that is still available in standard. I really wish they would have gone with the unbans before pulling the plug. Primarily because BB and Nactl enable two new archetypes in the format. But I suspect it's a mixed bag. This set doesn't look like it's going to be a gold mine for them. It's a fun enough limited format but it's also a bunch of shit and a handful of decent to playable cards across formats with a few chase cards. I'll concede that -DRS+BB/Nctl is spurring brewing of new decks and tweaking of existing, which is good for the game, and in turn can be good for sales of standard product. But, it feels to me that they pulled the trigger on this, in this way, for precisely that reason. A bunch of standard chase cards stand to benefit from this banning. It makes plenty of sense. I think I see their vision for modern. These changes could have been rolled out completely differently giving the players a better chance to react but it's quite apparent that was not priority number one.
I agree it's exciting. I'm excited to see what happens with the meta, but I doubt it changes anything in the long run and I think (for a bunch of reasons) I'm still done with the format. Modern Decks will rise to the top and there will be a new boogeyman card everyone moans about and then it will get banned and so on. Modern is not going to be anywhere as stable as Legacy in the ban department. Modern is the new extended business model for them, it is going to try to cater to people who are actively trading and buying standard cards and hence it is going to require shake ups that make sense both financially and for the metagame they want. They are invested in this format. They are actively printing cards for this format and they aren't going to have a Legacy II. That simple, and that's fine, but that's not where my desires lie.
Unbanning Nacatl is definitely the right thing to do. Zoo was widely known as one of THE decks to beat. It was sad to see it got hated out by jund and pod. Playing against zoo always felt straightforward. Never unfair, unlike the boogeyman known as jund.
I for one am looking forward to thrash zoo with blood moon and chalice of the void.
I for one am looking forward to thrash zoo with blood moon and chalice of the void.
CorruptShadow
Member
Hmm...With Zoo becoming a thing again what is the consensus on Geist of St. Traft moving? Looking at the tcg price graph it hit its low and is ticking up slightly. Is it time to buy a play-set ahead of Pro Tour Valencia?
It certainly just got a lot better than it was. It's funny just how bad Zoo beats Fae (and that they certainly knew that when putting Nacatl in.)
I'll throw my two cents in, because it's fun to re-read it a month down the road and see how embarrassingly wrong I was:
Newest format staples (not including temples):
-Bile Blight - Everything black wants, huge blowouts possible, kills most relevant creatures.
-Brimaz - Self-explanatory.
-Courser of Kruphix - Though not totally nuts, this guy smooths out land draws/lets you pseudo-dig, dodges a lot of the removal right now, and gains you life. He's not super aggressive, but he will find a nice home.
-Xenagos - I'm actually a bit iffy on this guy still, but his ability to possibly make you win the turn he comes down out of nowhere is certainly crazy. Plus every creature you play after him just gets bonkers.
-Unravel the Aether - Instant way to deal with D-Sphere, Gods, etc.
Cards becoming more useful:
-Doom Blade - While Bile Blight is great, it can't kill some of the new threats (cough -Brimaz -cough)
-Hammer of Porphoros - Already a good card, with control getting some new goodies it will be imperative to have a way to constantly interact with them, be it haste or making a basher each turn.
-Voice of Resurgence - Again, already good, but will start getting even better with so much strong sweeper removals going around like Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow.
-Cyclonic Rift- A way for mono blue or similar decks to stop the Gods and Kiora, this card will probably find a solid place in the Kiora decks as well, using green to accelerate into its Overload.
Cards going down:
-Nightveil Specter - Basically just used for devotion anyway, this card is becoming outclassed.
-Pack Rat - Too susceptible to Bile Blight. Was already meh anyway.
-Master of Waves - See above.
-Mutavault - Weird, I know, but with so many dual lands open now, a lot of colors will be splashed and manabases will need to get tighter. Will still see a lot of play, just not in every deck ever like it is now.
-Tribute to Hunger - Not seen nearly so much anymore anyway, but black's removal is getting tighter and other decks are starting to play out more guys in a faster span. Edict effects are becoming harder to manipulate efficiently.
Sleepers:
-Fated Retribution - It won't hike up too much, but will see some play, almost guaranteed.
-Ephara, God of the Polis - This card's ability feels weird in these colors, but it generates some good and mostly reliable advantage and I think could fit in a blue splashing white devotion deck.
-Eidolon of Countless Battles - Not right now, but this card will be a pretty good player in various decks in the future, be it white weenie or in a new Aura based deck.
-Fated Conflagration - I don't see this being a major player, but a couple on the side to deal with basically any planeswalker in standard will probably be a thing.
-Herald of Torment - Great card for mono black in almost every way, surprised it's still so low.
I'm still a little on the fence about Kiora. In all my playtesting, she seems pretty crazy, actually. The problem is her CMC is weird because control wants to play Jace on that turn (if a walker at all), and ramp decks will usually just not bother with her and go straight to fatties. I think that she will find a nice home in a Simic or Bant deck that does moderately okay, but doesn't consistently put up overbearing results, and as such will dive down to a $12-15 card.
Newest format staples (not including temples):
-Bile Blight - Everything black wants, huge blowouts possible, kills most relevant creatures.
-Brimaz - Self-explanatory.
-Courser of Kruphix - Though not totally nuts, this guy smooths out land draws/lets you pseudo-dig, dodges a lot of the removal right now, and gains you life. He's not super aggressive, but he will find a nice home.
-Xenagos - I'm actually a bit iffy on this guy still, but his ability to possibly make you win the turn he comes down out of nowhere is certainly crazy. Plus every creature you play after him just gets bonkers.
-Unravel the Aether - Instant way to deal with D-Sphere, Gods, etc.
Cards becoming more useful:
-Doom Blade - While Bile Blight is great, it can't kill some of the new threats (cough -Brimaz -cough)
-Hammer of Porphoros - Already a good card, with control getting some new goodies it will be imperative to have a way to constantly interact with them, be it haste or making a basher each turn.
-Voice of Resurgence - Again, already good, but will start getting even better with so much strong sweeper removals going around like Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow.
-Cyclonic Rift- A way for mono blue or similar decks to stop the Gods and Kiora, this card will probably find a solid place in the Kiora decks as well, using green to accelerate into its Overload.
Cards going down:
-Nightveil Specter - Basically just used for devotion anyway, this card is becoming outclassed.
-Pack Rat - Too susceptible to Bile Blight. Was already meh anyway.
-Master of Waves - See above.
-Mutavault - Weird, I know, but with so many dual lands open now, a lot of colors will be splashed and manabases will need to get tighter. Will still see a lot of play, just not in every deck ever like it is now.
-Tribute to Hunger - Not seen nearly so much anymore anyway, but black's removal is getting tighter and other decks are starting to play out more guys in a faster span. Edict effects are becoming harder to manipulate efficiently.
Sleepers:
-Fated Retribution - It won't hike up too much, but will see some play, almost guaranteed.
-Ephara, God of the Polis - This card's ability feels weird in these colors, but it generates some good and mostly reliable advantage and I think could fit in a blue splashing white devotion deck.
-Eidolon of Countless Battles - Not right now, but this card will be a pretty good player in various decks in the future, be it white weenie or in a new Aura based deck.
-Fated Conflagration - I don't see this being a major player, but a couple on the side to deal with basically any planeswalker in standard will probably be a thing.
-Herald of Torment - Great card for mono black in almost every way, surprised it's still so low.
I'm still a little on the fence about Kiora. In all my playtesting, she seems pretty crazy, actually. The problem is her CMC is weird because control wants to play Jace on that turn (if a walker at all), and ramp decks will usually just not bother with her and go straight to fatties. I think that she will find a nice home in a Simic or Bant deck that does moderately okay, but doesn't consistently put up overbearing results, and as such will dive down to a $12-15 card.
If they ever found a way to unban GSZ I'd be so happy. Easily #1 on my personal wishlist.
divisionbyzorro
Member
My store did a triple BTG draft tonight. I didn't really want to, but everyone seemed to want to open more packs, so I didn't play party pooper. Holy shit triple BTG draft is terrible. The removal is insane, and the colors aren't even remotely balanced.
I did get a Kiora, and managed to ultimate her once, but most games she did basically nothing other than fog once and get burned out. Which made me sad.
I did get a Kiora, and managed to ultimate her once, but most games she did basically nothing other than fog once and get burned out. Which made me sad.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yeah, I went Blue-Green (opening Kiora in pack three felt really good), and realized at the end of it that my deck was garbage. Blue got some good stuff in BTG, but it's toned down relative to the other colors in this set. The good blue stuff is in Theros; Retraction Helix for example is just miserable when it's not abusing effects like the Tritons. And the stuff that you need to have a good curve in green is all in Theros as well (I would have killed for some Centaurs and Sedge Scorpions).
I will say that Pheres-Band Trompers is really, really good. Really good.
I will say that Pheres-Band Trompers is really, really good. Really good.
A grindy, miserable format with next to no removal and dozens of Cluestones a game. Yeah, it's awful.
platypotamus
Member
Attention limited players:
You can have a 3/4 flier that can swing on turn 3. It worked out pretty well for me yesterday.
You can have a 3/4 flier that can swing on turn 3. It worked out pretty well for me yesterday.
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