divisionbyzorro
Member
I voted for land when it was first revealed. dealwithit.gif 
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
Any kind of biomancer centric deck gets blown out by sweepers, sad but true.
Just another reason to play eggs.
Just another reason to play eggs.
Doesn't stop terminus~
Any kind of biomancer centric deck gets blown out by sweepers, sad but true.
Splash white for Rootborn Defenses?
Call it Bantomancer?
Splash white for Rootborn Defenses?
Call it Bantomancer?
It's already playing white.
So I've been toying with an idea in my head for a long, long time now, where a deck would sideboard out a few key cards and change its composition completely. I know a deck did this in modern (Splinter Twin to Storm) but I was trying to figure it out before they did it. They just got there first lol
Anyway, here's my first attempt at this. Perhaps you guys can tell me why this wouldn't work, or how to make it work. Or maybe someone can sleeve it up on MODO and lemme know how it does? I would like to go from a Heartless Summoning deck to a Reanimator style deck, or maybe vice versa if that works better. Here's my shell:
My thoughts are get them ready for some wacky Heartless build, and then they remove the graveyard hate and you capitalize. I figure side out the Crypt Ghasts and Heartless Summonings for Unburial Rites and Grizzly Salvage for the game two switch up. Mulch can come in for stuff that feels useless in a matchup.
I'm not sure if Victim of Night is better than Ultimate Price or even (shudder) Murder. I don't know about much, really, it's an experimental shell. This is why I need to sign up for MODO myself lol
Perfect!
Anyway, here's my first attempt at this. Perhaps you guys can tell me why this wouldn't work, or how to make it work. Or maybe someone can sleeve it up on MODO and lemme know how it does? I would like to go from a Heartless Summoning deck to a Reanimator style deck, or maybe vice versa if that works better. Here's my shell:
Creatures x18
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Grisselbrand
4x Thragtusk
4x Restoration Angel
2x Acidic Slime
Spells x 16
4x Heartless Summoning
2x Sign in Blood
4x Victim of Night (some kind of creature kill I guess)
4x Mutilate
2x Tragic Slip (maybe?)
Land x
4x Godless Shrine
4x Overgrown Cemetery
x Swamp
x Forest
x Plains
Sideboard x15
4x Unburial Rites
4x Grizzly Salvage
4x Mulch
3x Creature kill replacement, maybe Ultimate Price
My thoughts are get them ready for some wacky Heartless build, and then they remove the graveyard hate and you capitalize. I figure side out the Crypt Ghasts and Heartless Summonings for Unburial Rites and Grizzly Salvage for the game two switch up. Mulch can come in for stuff that feels useless in a matchup.
I'm not sure if Victim of Night is better than Ultimate Price or even (shudder) Murder. I don't know about much, really, it's an experimental shell. This is why I need to sign up for MODO myself lol
It's already playing white.
Perfect!
So I've been toying with an idea in my head for a long, long time now, where a deck would sideboard out a few key cards and change its composition completely. I know a deck did this in modern (Splinter Twin to Storm) but I was trying to figure it out before they did it. They just got there first lol
Anyway, here's my first attempt at this. Perhaps you guys can tell me why this wouldn't work, or how to make it work. Or maybe someone can sleeve it up on MODO and lemme know how it does? I would like to go from a Heartless Summoning deck to a Reanimator style deck, or maybe vice versa if that works better. Here's my shell:
My thoughts are get them ready for some wacky Heartless build, and then they remove the graveyard hate and you capitalize. I figure side out the Crypt Ghasts and Heartless Summonings for Unburial Rites and Grizzly Salvage for the game two switch up. Mulch can come in for stuff that feels useless in a matchup.
I'm not sure if Victim of Night is better than Ultimate Price or even (shudder) Murder. I don't know about much, really, it's an experimental shell. This is why I need to sign up for MODO myself lol
Looks sort of similar to Travis Woo's Midnight Run deck.
Looks sort of similar to Travis Woo's Midnight Run deck.
We built a similar deck on my friend's MODO account using the Ghast and Grisselbrand with Heartless like a week or two before Travis made his deck, though admittedly, his is much better tuned and uses Wolf Run to great effect (we didn't even think to include it). Ours was abandoned pretty quickly. I just love the idea of Ghasting into Grisselbrand, especially with Heartless out.
Biomancer is a greatly usable card.
Golgari charm takes care of 90% of sweepers.
So does Boros Charm.
Terminus is the only sweeper that really bothers you.
If you are smart you are playing Biomancer with Strangleroots (Undying or just Haste beat down), thragtusk (go ahead and wipe) and indestructable oozes (which is just a vastly underrated card even still).
Golgari charm takes care of 90% of sweepers.
So does Boros Charm.
Terminus is the only sweeper that really bothers you.
If you are smart you are playing Biomancer with Strangleroots (Undying or just Haste beat down), thragtusk (go ahead and wipe) and indestructable oozes (which is just a vastly underrated card even still).
A day or 2 old, but still awesome. The second pro athlete to come out of the magic closet!
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...ut-last-night-wes-welkers-feeling-a-mile-high
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...ut-last-night-wes-welkers-feeling-a-mile-high
The Miami Heat won their 20th consecutive game, beating the Philadelphia 76ers, 98-94, on the road. "Twenty in a row, that's a perfect game in Magic: The Gathering, am I right?" asked Heat forward Shane Battier after the game. "If only someone on this team would play with me. I have a sweet black/blue deck I want to try out. I tried to teach Chris Andersen how to play, but he kept folding up the cards and throwing them at me while yelling, 'Cacaw!' It was disappointing."
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
A day or 2 old, but still awesome. The second pro athlete to come out of the magic closet!
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...ut-last-night-wes-welkers-feeling-a-mile-high
When I left high-school Magic was seriously gaining traction and popularity. The homecoming king the year after I left was a competitive FNM player. I hope the game keeps gaining ground.
So Regeneration.....how exactly does it work? If my opponent uses Supreme Verdict and I use golgari charm will all my creatures survive? What about if they uses a tragic slip or if in combat i put them up against a creature that should kill it?
Im trying to figure out if the charm is worth running over devour flesh/murder/ultimate price.
Im trying to figure out if the charm is worth running over devour flesh/murder/ultimate price.
So Regeneration.....how exactly does it work? If my opponent uses Supreme Verdict and I use golgari charm will all my creatures survive? What about if they uses a tragic slip or if in combat i put them up against a creature that should kill it?
Im trying to figure out if the charm is worth running over devour flesh/murder/ultimate price.
Regeneration specifically saves your creature from lethal damage (from combat or a burn spell) and from cards that say "destroy". It will not save your guy from getting reduced to 0 toughness by a Tragic Slip, you being forced to sacrificed it, or getting exiled (or myriad other things).
So yeah, it will save them from Supreme Verdict and combat. But you need to regenerate your creature before it would die since it puts a "shield" on it for the rest of the turn that saves the creature from one instance of dying.
Regeneration specifically saves your creature from lethal damage (from combat or a burn spell) and from cards that say "destroy". It will not save your guy from getting reduced to 0 toughness by a Tragic Slip, you being forced to sacrificed it, or getting exiled (or myriad other things).
So yeah, it will save them from Supreme Verdict and combat. But you need to regenerate your creature before it would die since it puts a "shield" on it for the rest of the turn that saves the creature from one instance of dying.
Can I regen in response to a verdict or during combat before damage is assigned?
narcosis219
Member
Can I regen in response to a verdict or during combat before damage is assigned?
Your response will go on the stack on top of the verdict, so yes, your regen shield will be up by the time verdict hits.
"During combat before damage is assigned" - the very latest you can do this is after blockers are assigned and before combat damage is dealt.
So Regeneration.....how exactly does it work? If my opponent uses Supreme Verdict and I use golgari charm will all my creatures survive? What about if they uses a tragic slip or if in combat i put them up against a creature that should kill it?
Im trying to figure out if the charm is worth running over devour flesh/murder/ultimate price.
The reminder text for regeneration is as follows:
The next time this creature would be destroyed this turn, it isn't. Instead tap it, remove all damage from it, and remove it from combat.
Therefore, it can dodge thigs that say "destroy", and some weirder cases such as blocking a 2/2 with double strike with your 2/2. After the double striker deals 2 damage to the creature, it uses up a renegeration "shield" and is tapped and removed from combat; therefore, it isn't dealt damage again in the regular damage assignment step (and it doesn't deal damage back, either).
I'd say you should keep Golgari Charm as a sideboard card and play some kill spells on your maindeck, since you can swap the creature destruction for the Golgari Charms against control opponents, who tend to play several sweepers but few creatures that are actually worth killing.
Can I regen in response to a verdict or during combat before damage is assigned?
Yep. That is pretty much the way you have to do it since the regeneration needs to have resolved before whatever destroys your creature.
In combat you get a chance to do it after Blockers are declared and ordered, but before damage is dealt.
Keru_Shiri
Member
I remember when regeneration used to be relevant, and "can't be regenerated" was actually a desired afterclause in kill spells.
How times have changed.
Haven't they killed the latter in an attempt to achieve the former? Then again, there hasn't really been a relevant regenerator since Thrun.
Isn't it nicer from a design standpoint to use -X/-X spells instead so you don't have to print that extra sentence that isn't relevant most of the time?
"Target nonblack creature gets -0/-X where X is its toughness." sounds awful.
Isn't it nicer from a design standpoint to use -X/-X spells instead so you don't have to print that extra sentence that isn't relevant most of the time?
Well that also kills Indestructible stuff.
"Target nonblack creature gets +0/-X where X is its toughness." sounds awful.
I meant spells we already have like Tragic Slip and Mutilate
Keru_Shiri
Member
I wonder though, if something like Falkenrath Aristocrat's temporary indestructibility isn't a more elegant means of regeneration.
"Tap: This dude is indestructible until end of turn" does make more sense intuitively to me
Yeah, since it makes sense that something needs to be indestructible before it gets hit by the thing that kills it while regeneration sounds like something that should happen after the damage has already been dealt.
Haven't they killed the latter in an attempt to achieve the former? Then again, there hasn't really been a relevant regenerator since Thrun.
Yeah, they stopped printing cards with "can't be regenerated" clauses on them to make regeneration stronger, but that meant they actually had to go back to making mostly bad regenerators (except for Lotleth Troll, that is).
I wonder though, if something like Falkenrath Aristocrat's temporary indestructibility isn't a more elegant means of regeneration.
Both mechanics achieve the same if you look at the grand picture (save a creature from destruction), except that indestructibility lasts for the whole turn and allows the creature to stay untapped or in combat, for example.
I'd say that, out of the two, indestructible creatures are more fun to the player using them, but get a lot more frustrating for the players they're being used against.
I guess Persist and Undying are both one shot regenerations, of a sort.
Something like:
G: Revitalize THIS. (If THIS entered the graveyard this turn, put it into play tapped.)
The thing is that ability isn't properly worded, rules-wise. Cards have no memory of having switched zones, so you can't make it trigger like that... your best bet would be a triggered ability along the lines of:
Revitalize G (When this creature dies, you may pay its Revitalize cost. If you do, return it to the battlefield tapped)
Actually, a mechanic like that would probably be more interesting, since you could print it on creatures with some enters-the-battlefield effects (even if they'd be small-ish ones).
Having it as a keyworded trigger ability would be pretty good. That way you could even emulate "regenerate target creature" effects by doing something like "Target creature gains Revitalize 0".
You don't tap when you use the regenerate ability usually. But when something actually regenerates after it gets destroyed it gets tapped, removed from combat, and any damage it had marked on it is removed.
Do you have to tap a regenerated creature? Most don't say to tap it after paying the regent cost
You don't tap when you use the regenerate ability usually. But when something actually regenerates after it gets destroyed it gets tapped, removed from combat, and any damage it had marked on it is removed.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Do you have to tap a regenerated creature? Most don't say to tap it after paying the regent cost
A creature that's regenerated is tapped as a side effect, but it's not part of the cost (which is to say: you can regenerate an already-tapped creature).
Ah, I forgot the memory thing. I like your version though.The thing is that ability isn't properly worded, rules-wise. Cards have no memory of having switched zones, so you can't make it trigger like that... your best bet would be a triggered ability along the lines of:
Revitalize G (When this creature dies, you may pay its Revitalize cost. If you do, return it to the battlefield tapped)
Actually, a mechanic like that would probably be more interesting, since you could print it on creatures with some enters-the-battlefield effects (even if they'd be small-ish ones).
And it also gives Green its own in-flavor reanimation.
Having it as a keyworded trigger ability would be pretty good. That way you could even emulate "regenerate target creature" effects by doing something like "Target creature gains Revitalize 0".
That'd probably work on auras or equipment, but it'd look way too clunky on spells or abilities. For that, I'd much rather have the spells grant indestructibility for the turn, since instants granting triggered "when this dies" abilites would get confusing quick (many people would wonder if the creature keeps the ability to revitalize after having revitalized once from some instant, since most players ignore the rules that state how a card is considered a new object whenever it changes zones).
I'm pretty sure they do. It shouldn't be any different from Faith's Reward; though cards like that all say "put there" or "put into", so it would probably be "{G}: Revitalize ~. (Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped if it was put there from the battlefield this turn.)", or something like that, in fancy Magic wording.The thing is that ability isn't properly worded, rules-wise. Cards have no memory of having switched zones, so you can't make it trigger like that...
robotzombie
Member
Can someone explain to me some Boros Reckoner stuff?
1. If I block a 6/6 creature with boros reckoner, can I do 6 damage back or just 3 (or more if its toughness was buffed)?
2. If I make the reckoner indestructible, will that allow me to do the full 6 damage if the first case is a no?
3. What about non combat damage? Say a spell that does 5 damage to target creature?
1. If I block a 6/6 creature with boros reckoner, can I do 6 damage back or just 3 (or more if its toughness was buffed)?
2. If I make the reckoner indestructible, will that allow me to do the full 6 damage if the first case is a no?
3. What about non combat damage? Say a spell that does 5 damage to target creature?
6. All of the damage is assigned, at once, no matter how much toughness he actually has. The only exception to this would be trampling I believe.Can someone explain to me some Boros Reckoner stuff?
1. If I block a 6/6 creature with boros reckoner, can I do 6 damage back or just 3 (or more if its toughness was buffed)?
You will be able to deal 5 damage to something as well, this is what makes Boros Reckoner + Blasphemous Act such a deadly combo.3. What about non combat damage? Say a spell that does 5 damage to target creature?
Can someone explain to me some Boros Reckoner stuff?
1. If I block a 6/6 creature with boros reckoner, can I do 6 damage back or just 3 (or more if its toughness was buffed)?
2. If I make the reckoner indestructible, will that allow me to do the full 6 damage if the first case is a no?
3. What about non combat damage? Say a spell that does 5 damage to target creature?
1. 6 damage
2. yes
3. it's all damage
robotzombie
Member
6. All of the damage is assigned, at once, no matter how much toughness he actually has. The only exception to this would be trampling I believe.
You will be able to deal 5 damage to something as well, this is what makes Boros Reckoner + Blasphemous Act such a deadly combo.
And I literally just pulled a Blasphemous Act (and a clifftop Retreat) from a couple of innistrad boosters yesterday!
Thanks guys
narcosis219
Member
Can someone explain to me some Boros Reckoner stuff?
1. If I block a 6/6 creature with boros reckoner, can I do 6 damage back or just 3 (or more if its toughness was buffed)?
2. If I make the reckoner indestructible, will that allow me to do the full 6 damage if the first case is a no?
3. What about non combat damage? Say a spell that does 5 damage to target creature?
Regarding combat damage: Typically, in 1v1 combat both creatures deal their power's worth of damage to the other creature. If I have a 20/20 hydra and you block with a reckoner, you may have reckoner deal 20 damage to target creature or player.
If trample is involved, the way damage works is that the attacking creature assigns lethal damage to all blockers, then the rest to player.
Example 1: 6/6 trample attacks, you block with Reckoner. During combat, the owner of the 6/6 chooses to assign 3 damage to Reckoner (lethal) and the remaining 3 power to you, the player. In this case, you can only do 3 damage back.
Example 2: 6/6 trample deathtouch attacks, you block with Reckoner. During combat, the owner of the 6/6 chooses to assign 1 damage to Reckoner (lethal) and the remaining 5 power to you, the player. In this case, you can only do 1 damage back.
robotzombie
Member
Regarding combat damage: Typically, in 1v1 combat both creatures deal their power's worth of damage to the other creature. If I have a 20/20 hydra and you block with a reckoner, you may have reckoner deal 20 damage to target creature or player.
If trample is involved, the way damage works is that the attacking creature assigns lethal damage to all blockers, then the rest to player.
Example 1: 6/6 trample attacks, you block with Reckoner. During combat, the owner of the 6/6 chooses to assign 3 damage to Reckoner (lethal) and the remaining 3 power to you, the player. In this case, you can only do 3 damage back.
Example 2: 6/6 trample deathtouch attacks, you block with Reckoner. During combat, the owner of the 6/6 chooses to assign 1 damage to Reckoner (lethal) and the remaining 6 power to you, the player. In this case, you can only do 1 damage back.
Thanks, that brings up a new question however. What about just deathtouch. Say a 2/2 deathtouch creature? Without trample it would still do the full 2 damage to the Reckoner correct?
narcosis219
Member
Thanks, that brings up a new question however. What about just deathtouch. Say a 2/2 deathtouch creature? Without trample it would still do the full 2 damage to the Reckoner correct?
Yup. Trample (in 1v1 combat) is the only way you can assign an amount of damage lower than the creature's power.
EDIT: Way late on the reckoner stuff.
^ Yes deathtouch does full damage, unless it's deathtouch/trample.
Wait. Does Deathtouch + Trample mean it only registers 1 and the rest carries over, or is it normal
Yup. They adjusted that with Magic 2011 so it'd play like it "felt" it should.Wait. Does Deathtouch + Trample mean it only registers 1 and the rest carries over, or is it normal