-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
2 mana resto angel resetting the card? Yeah, that's a problem.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oooh yeah, that would be nasty
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yes yes. You have convinced me.
So that Voice of Resurgence. Is that an automatic add to Modern Hatebears? Or is it more cute than good?
So that Voice of Resurgence. Is that an automatic add to Modern Hatebears? Or is it more cute than good?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
At two mana I think its pretty good. Puts pressure on really early.
Creatures can be swept away. Thalia will actually slow you down a turn if you didn't take her into account when keeping your opening hand. Hatebears wants you to stop doing anything if possible, not just dissuade you from doing things. Trust me, I know this well. My friend who I play Modern with loves his Hatebears deck.
Looking at it again, the better comparison would be Standstill. Both are cards that give your opponent a choice: Play a spell and forfeit some card advantage, or withhold your spell and sacrifice tempo. The difference is the advantage provided by this guy is in the form of X/X tokens, which have a variety of inherent weaknesses. Standstill will give you 3 cards, no question, and cards in your hand are generally safer than cards on the field.
However this does come on a 2/2 body and replaces itself on death, so the comparison is not totally apt. And it's not symmetrical either.
Looking at it again, the better comparison would be Standstill. Both are cards that give your opponent a choice: Play a spell and forfeit some card advantage, or withhold your spell and sacrifice tempo. The difference is the advantage provided by this guy is in the form of X/X tokens, which have a variety of inherent weaknesses. Standstill will give you 3 cards, no question, and cards in your hand are generally safer than cards on the field.
However this does come on a 2/2 body and replaces itself on death, so the comparison is not totally apt. And it's not symmetrical either.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Sweet.
Sweet.
Jeez. This fuse mechanic is going to be nastaaaaay.
Kinda? It depends on the design.
Well after writing that I thought about it some more and I realize it's not appropriate for every situation. What I really meant is that the presence of Fuse inspires creative effect pairings. Rather than being glorified charms, you have a card with two modes, either of which are playable on their own but can combine to form a greater "third" effect.
So, not evergreen exactly, but they shouldn't shirk from using Fuse on split cards in the future. It's an interesting design challenge that results in elegant cards.
Neverender
Member
Just went 6-2 with this deck at FNM, feels good! My best FNM so far. Blasphemous Act + Reckoner killed it.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/testo/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/testo/
Sweet.
Holy hell that's good. Damn I love Fuse.
Sweet.
So if you cast this fused against Thragtusk (nothing else on board) you can return to hand and kill the token, but you can't make him sac the Thragtusk then bounce the token right?
The Fuse card resolves entirely as one spell so the token trigger won't even go on the stack till after they've sacced a creature. Turn//Burn is the Thragtusk answer for this set it seems.
Edit: : /
Putrefy fits my planned BUG deck perfectly! I think I have two or three copies somewhere in my collection...
By the way, how do you guys keep your card collections? I try to sort the cards by set, but building and dismantling decks over time eventually leads to a huge pile of unsorted cards that just keeps on growing. I was looking for some Gnaw to the Bone and Spider Spawnings I had, but I've been completely unable to spot them across the thousands of cards I have. I bet I've misplaced them alongside some of the sorted cards... looking for putrefy will be an equally complicated task, since those are old enough that they're all the way from back when I didn't even sort my cards other than by color and rarity. Anything older than Eventide is mostly cluttered together.
The WG mythic looks pretty powerful, but I don't think it's a ridiculous hate bear. It's not like your opponents will play their removal on your turn to kill it, but it does protect selesnya from nonred control decks, since Azorius Charm can't hit and nuking the board still gets you a token. It might be crazy overpowered, but I think it's being overhyped (and probably overpriced in the presale market). During set previews, I tend to look for cheaper cards that do interesting effects I'd like to play in my decks, rather than shooting for whichever card preview sites have hyped into costing $50 per card. I don't care about speculation and reselling my cards, but rather getting stuff I want to play while it's dirt cheap (since it will cost a dollar or two less less later on, at worst). So far the only card I've ever gotten really licky on were a pair of Phantasmal Images I bought for cheap at the set's launch party.
The goblin's bad... I wish it had haste or did more than two damage (three would've been better), or if it had some crazy ability like "Whenever ~ would take damage, flip a coin. If it comes up heads, return ~ to its owner's hand instead". He isn't nearly as wacky as he could be, which leaves in in the boring middle ground between being a serious card and a flat-out wacky Izzet test subject.
By the way, how do you guys keep your card collections? I try to sort the cards by set, but building and dismantling decks over time eventually leads to a huge pile of unsorted cards that just keeps on growing. I was looking for some Gnaw to the Bone and Spider Spawnings I had, but I've been completely unable to spot them across the thousands of cards I have. I bet I've misplaced them alongside some of the sorted cards... looking for putrefy will be an equally complicated task, since those are old enough that they're all the way from back when I didn't even sort my cards other than by color and rarity. Anything older than Eventide is mostly cluttered together.
The WG mythic looks pretty powerful, but I don't think it's a ridiculous hate bear. It's not like your opponents will play their removal on your turn to kill it, but it does protect selesnya from nonred control decks, since Azorius Charm can't hit and nuking the board still gets you a token. It might be crazy overpowered, but I think it's being overhyped (and probably overpriced in the presale market). During set previews, I tend to look for cheaper cards that do interesting effects I'd like to play in my decks, rather than shooting for whichever card preview sites have hyped into costing $50 per card. I don't care about speculation and reselling my cards, but rather getting stuff I want to play while it's dirt cheap (since it will cost a dollar or two less less later on, at worst). So far the only card I've ever gotten really licky on were a pair of Phantasmal Images I bought for cheap at the set's launch party.
The goblin's bad... I wish it had haste or did more than two damage (three would've been better), or if it had some crazy ability like "Whenever ~ would take damage, flip a coin. If it comes up heads, return ~ to its owner's hand instead". He isn't nearly as wacky as he could be, which leaves in in the boring middle ground between being a serious card and a flat-out wacky Izzet test subject.
Sweet.
If your opponent has 2 creatures out, and you play this for the Fuze cost, couldn't they just choose to sacrifice the creature you want to return to their hand and only lose one creature total?
I think the cards effects are applied from left to right, so Far bounces the creature before Away asks for a sacrifice. We'll probably need to read the set FAQ on Fuse to see how it actually works, though.
Yeah, it happens left to right. From the mechanics article:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/242#1 said:
I really look forward to the easiest read in Magic where you know your opponent has a split card because they tilt their head.
Keru_Shiri
Member
The Fuse card resolves entirely as one spell so the token trigger won't even go on the stack till after they've sacced a creature. Turn//Burn is the Thragtusk answer for this set it seems.
Edit: : /
A few of my buddies are playing a 4th edition D&D game set in Ravnica, and one of the players is playing an Izzet Goblin Sorcerer who relies heavily on his Chaos Bolt. He's a big fan of these kooky random cards and he's gonna flip when he sees this.
Nope. The whole point is that he has a chance to kill himself.
This card is pretty bad. I'm not even sure what purpose it serves at all.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
"LOL so random!"
In an era with smaller set sizes, I don't really think they should be wasting precious card slots on dumb cards like that. Everything should have some sort of purpose- being a tournament card, being a limited card, being a casual card, teaching a lesson to newer players, ect. This does none of that.
Keru_Shiri
Member
No, I'm pretty sure it achieves the "casual card" effect quite nicely. Also, we have 4 large sets in Standard right now, so I think we'll be fine.
gonna go back to this.
While I don't think it's going to be the greatest thing ever in standard, modern has a lot of cards this guy can be borderline abusive with.... Delver decks running gitaxian probes and other random cantrips being among the most insane possibilities.
Card would've been pretty decent if it was just a hellbent phyrexian arena. A card shouldn't make Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe draw you two cards each.
I'm actually kind of worried about what this guy can do. I realize loading your deck up with cantrips could lead to a situation where you're unable to cast down to 1 card without paying a stupid amount of life, but there's definitely a balance here.
Another issue with the deck is, you probably want to be in every color. Oh fuck, how cute would a Tribal Flames delver tempo/burn deck be? Toss in Isochron Scepter as a 1-2 of in the sideboard to clear out your hand and break open tempo mirrors?
gonna go back to this.
While I don't think it's going to be the greatest thing ever in standard, modern has a lot of cards this guy can be borderline abusive with.... Delver decks running gitaxian probes and other random cantrips being among the most insane possibilities.
Card would've been pretty decent if it was just a hellbent phyrexian arena. A card shouldn't make Street Wraith and Gitaxian Probe draw you two cards each.
I'm actually kind of worried about what this guy can do. I realize loading your deck up with cantrips could lead to a situation where you're unable to cast down to 1 card without paying a stupid amount of life, but there's definitely a balance here.
Another issue with the deck is, you probably want to be in every color. Oh fuck, how cute would a Tribal Flames delver tempo/burn deck be? Toss in Isochron Scepter as a 1-2 of in the sideboard to clear out your hand and break open tempo mirrors?
A UB Delver deck in Modern with Death's Shadow and Dark Confidant?
Keru_Shiri
Member
So, in regards to Blood Scrivener, if you Sphinx's Revelation for X with no cards in your hand, would you draw double X cards?
No. You draw each card individually. You'd draw X+1 cards.
TRIGGER WARNING -- DEATH'S SHADOW AGGRO.
But seriously, I love it. Dark Confidant, Delver, Blood Scrivener, and Death's Shadow might be too many creatures though, and you'd need to be able to burn through your life pretty fast, otherwise you'd have Death's Shadow as an uncastable card. I also kind of want goyf, considering how quickly our graveyard is being filled, but another 2cc card might be too heavy for what we're attempting.
Creatures: 16
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Death's Shadow
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Dark Confidant
Spells: 27
4 Rift Bolt(?)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vapor Snag(?)
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Helix
Lands: 17
(fetches and shocks. c'mon, man, I can't do everything for ya!)
I don't actually know if we even need delver...... It feels like it just wants to be goblin guide. I'd also put the ideal # of cantrips at 6-8, and I've only got 4.
I think each draw is handled separatedly:the first draw is replaced by the "draw 2 and lose 1 life", and then the subsequent ones draw you a single card because you already have cards in hand. If you're supposed to reveal every card you draw if you have a Future Sight or Malek on the table, for example, I'd say card draws are done separatedly, so it works this way.
I'd give a more definitive answer, but delving back into the CRs is a bit of a hassle.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Ah, that's right. Shucks.
Assuming it's Standard, Naya Humans and Junk Reanimator at the top ends of the table. If your LGS is more casual, then you'll probably run into a lot more Guild-theme homebrews (i.e. decks based off of milling or Extort). Do you know about how many people attend?
I'm pretty sure you and Lucario are both right. I keep thinking of "Draw X cards" as one action, but it should really say "Draw a card X times".
No delver/no death's shadow/zoo version:
dudes: 24
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
spells: 19
3 Path to Exile
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Helix
17 lands
Might be a little too light on lands and fixing to be playing steppe lynx -- I realize I'm gettin' kinda greedy here.
#YOLO VERSION
dudes: 28
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Death's Shadow
4 Goblin Guide
4 Dark Confidant
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
spells: a lot
2 Gut Shot
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
lands: 18
LAND CRACK FETCH TAKE TWO I'M CONLEY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS
dudes: 24
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Kird Ape
4 Goblin Guide
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
spells: 19
3 Path to Exile
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Helix
17 lands
Might be a little too light on lands and fixing to be playing steppe lynx -- I realize I'm gettin' kinda greedy here.
#YOLO VERSION
dudes: 28
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Death's Shadow
4 Goblin Guide
4 Dark Confidant
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
spells: a lot
2 Gut Shot
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
lands: 18
LAND CRACK FETCH TAKE TWO I'M CONLEY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS
I think you might be right about Delver, when I thought of the creature base (same 16 as you) the first thing I thought was Deathrite Shaman is supposed to be one of the best cards in the format and fits here. Turn 2 Lilliana would be good to get rid of the dead Shadows, and you could fit in Goyf without worrying about flipping Delver.
It's like a quirky version of that Grixis Delver list SCG posted about a while ago.
3 mana spells are a big no in this deck imho. you never want three lands. DRS could probably do some work though, but he'd be replacing lands, which might not be a great idea.
For extra cuteness, though, you COULD run a GO BIG (prolly 19-20 land + 4 DRS) version of the deck that runs the golgari guild champ to exile your death's shadows. I really like 18/19 tarmogoyfs.
It's true that having both out means we can't draw cards off Scrivener if we drew a noninsant off confidant, yeah, but consider:
-Dark confidant is the biggest lightning bolt/path conduit in Modern. If someone lets us get both out and can't answer either, they're probably going to lose anyways.
-The better versions of this deck probably won't want to be running as many creatures as I am
-We're also drawing plenty of cards off Scrivener mainphase.
I'll test it out a bit without the confidants, though. It hurts, but it might be correct to just cut them completely.
dudes: 12
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Tarmogoyf
spells: 30
2 Gut Shot
4 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Helix
lands: 18
This seems like it gets a tad too greedy with the manabase, but it's not like I wanna be cutting goyf here. Ugh. Maybe I'm just being greedy by shoving Tribal Flames into all of these lists, but we need to be hurting our opponent faster than we hurt ourselves, and 4-5 damage for 1R does exactly that. I'm also shoving goyf into all of these lists, and I'm just splashing for it.
There's way too many cards I'm considering here. It's like I'm trying to jam five or six decks into one.
Similar threads
- Locked