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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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Crocodile

Member
It's the consistent and inevitable result of this type of activity in a store setting. New players are always going to be worse players, and they'll generally not have access to much of a collection or comprehensive knowledge of card values. If they play in a draft like this they're paying their money for the opportunity to learn by getting beat, because they won't get to leave with any good cards. If one opens an expedition Misty Rainforest or something the result is going to be taking literally hundreds of dollars from them.

You've been calling it "theft" or "shitty people trying to screw over others". It's that sort of language that I take offense too. Nobody is being dishonest, nobody is being rude to newer players or trying to screw them over and while I'm sure many newer players wouldn't like the format, many have no problem/like it as well.

I will say that both of my LGS have a "keep an Expedition if you open it" policy and did a "keep what you open" for Modern Masters formats (which never had new players in them) but that was mostly a function of those cards could easily be $100+ whereas even valuable foils in normal sets rarely exceed $50+. Those have been the only exceptions though.

There are three places here that do drafts.

1. £10 drafts, keep what you draft, some additional prize support.
2. £9 drafts, rare redraft. Not sure on their Expeditions policy.
3. £5 drafts, rare redraft in a random order (rather than by standings), keep any Expeditions you open.

3 is easily my favourite. I can draft fun stuff instead of just the money cards, but there's also no pressure to win. Sure, you might not get to keep the cool rare you open, but you're just as likely to get to pick something better regardless of your results (I opened absolute crap, but still walked away with a mythic and a foil rare despite being second last in pick order).

Also being roughly half the price of anywhere else really helps :p

I assume £5 drafts is less than the cost of three packs where you are right? I've never come across this drafting style. I guess given the reduced price and that statistically since more packs are opened you are more likely to open good cards makes this worthwhile compared to just busting packs though I can't say I'm the biggest fan of what that does to gameplay.
 

Firemind

Member
I got beaten once by a little girl in a rare redraft. Sprout Swarm is the devil.

I did a draft yesterday and it made me feel like a bad Magic player.

Started with WB Allies with a few great early picks like Drana's Emissary, then black dried up so I went into red. Grabbed a Veteran Warleader as well even though I ultimately decided not to splash green.

Ended up with a deck that wasn't all the way there and made some bad plays in my first two matches, think I lost them both 1-2.

Luckily I rolled over my 3rd opponent, game 2 I was beating on him early until he ramped out that 7/8 Eldrazi. Untapped and cast Turn Against and swung for the win, made me feel a bit better.
You know what's bad?

Getting so wasted that you can't even remember what you drafted last night.

nt5j5sS.png
 

Firemind

Member
Only uncultured savages drink beer from a can.

I'll echo whoever said flyers are amazing in limited. The one thing I remember is I had a bunch of those 3/3 vigilance fliers for five and just attacked a bunch of turns and played removal whenever I could. Even a drunk could do that.

I've been saying it several times: white has better removal than black for a while now.
 

Bandini

Member
Only uncultured savages drink beer from a can.

I'll echo whoever said flyers are amazing in limited. The one thing I remember is I had a bunch of those 3/3 vigilance fliers for five and just attacked a bunch of turns and played removal whenever I could. Even a drunk could do that.

I've been saying it several times: white has better removal than black for a while now.

Actually a lot of really great beers come in cans these days. Cigar City's Jai Alai is probably my favorite, Dale's Pale Ale is fantastic as well.

Of course, you should still use a frosty mug or beer glass when possible.

I enjoy drinking while playing Magic, but when you combo that with staying up 4+ hours later than normal, some truly bad play can occur. GB can confirm that.
 

Lucario

Member
Someone on Reddit posted about this a couple of months ago. I believe Pyromancer/Mentor with Skullclamp handily won the event.



That was Caleb Durward's video series. His Hypergenesis decks were stupid, but they didn't have to face the other stupid decks.

I think two stores did it. Here's the top 4 of one event:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-08-15-affinity/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/uwr-pyro-clamp/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-08-15-bug-tempo/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-08-15-ub-tezzeret-control/


This was only a ~16-person event though, and I think only two hypergenesis players (and 0 elf-clamp decks) showed up.
 

Yeef

Member
So my LGS is getting a second wave of fat packs and apparently the price is now nearly double that of the first wave. And people are still buying it! And claiming that it's still good value! Sometimes, I don't understand what the hell is going on with this game.

The cost price of those things have not moved one bit, I presume? So LGSes are earning massive margins on what is supposed to be a low-margins high-volume product?
Odds are they didn't buy the fatpacks wholesale. Wizards DIrect and every other distributor that I know of has been out of stock since launch. There's a good chance your LGS found a deal online or something and paid significantly more for the fat packs.

That said, anyone who buys it at that price probably plans to sit on it for a couple years. I can't imagine anyone opening it just for the lands at those prices.
 

ultron87

Member
I saw a pile of Fat Packs at Target yesterday for MSRB. Was kind of surprised since I figured they'd be picked over weeks ago. Maybe they had some more in the back or something.
 

Yeef

Member
I saw a pile of Fat Packs at Target yesterday for MSRB. Was kind of surprised since I figured they'd be picked over weeks ago. Maybe they had some more in the back or something.
Most targets actually sell fat packs for 2 bucks over MSRP (and booster packs for 20 cents over). When Wizards raised the wholesale prices awhile back, that's how Target responded.

I keep meaning to check the Targets and Barnes and Nobleses around here, but I never have the time or will to do so.
 

Violet_0

Banned
so I managed to re-activate my MTGO account, any place I can go to to get used to the controls again before I jump into a draft?
 

Wichu

Member
I assume £5 drafts is less than the cost of three packs where you are right? I've never come across this drafting style. I guess given the reduced price and that statistically since more packs are opened you are more likely to open good cards makes this worthwhile compared to just busting packs though I can't say I'm the biggest fan of what that does to gameplay.

Yeah, boosters usually cost £3.50 in the shops here. £5 for three packs is basically the cheapest you can get them online.

I don't understand what you mean by affecting gameplay - how the rares are redrafted shouldn't affect how you draft, as they're completely independent. I guess you might go for "fun" decks rather than strictly going for the "best" deck, but I'm OK with that. I play Magic for fun.
 

Bandini

Member
Damn it, I just found out that SCG States was last weekend and not that far from where I am...

I want to play a Modern tournament, only had 4 people show up at my LGS for it last night
 

Socat

Member
So what's the most popular format worldwide? Still trying to decide which format I want to play before investing in cards.

Standard is aptly named in this case. It's by far the most popular for tournaments and FNM events, followed by limited and then probably Modern.
 

OnPoint

Member
Wow. Carbonite Chamber is...perfect. Holy crap. I'm serious. Flavor, mechanics, etc. The card is amazing. Easily the best custom card I've ever seen.

So much of what's in this Imgur link is perfect. It's like a whole set, with shockingly great mechanics. I'd love to print it out and draft it. Seems super fun, well thought out and balanced.
 
So much of what's in this Imgur link is perfect. It's like a whole set, with shockingly great mechanics. I'd love to print it out and draft it. Seems super fun, well thought out and balanced.

My gut read is that as a set it's not very good - it looks like it's trying to do too many things, and there are some weird imbalances. But a lot of the individual cards are cool.
 

ACE 1991

Member
Thanks guys. Thinking of buying singles to make a standard deck, is there anything even remotely competitive that I can buy for $50 and under? Also thinking of starting to do draft games too to build a collection.
 

Socat

Member
Thanks guys. Thinking of buying singles to make a standard deck, is there anything even remotely competitive that I can buy for $50 and under? Also thinking of starting to do draft games too to build a collection.

The newest event deck is an excellent way to start building towards a decent Standard deck. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/battle-zendikar-event-deck-and-intro-packs-2015-09-24
Or you could start buying singles and building towards Atarka Red http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93553
 

Joe Molotov

Member

ACE 1991

Member
The newest event deck is an excellent way to start building towards a decent Standard deck. Or you could start buying singles and building towards Atarka Red http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93553

Black/White Warriors is a good option. It's fairly strong and you don't need any fetch lands for it and only a few rares.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/kevincrimin-092515-playing-on-a-budget-standard-blackwhite-warriors/

Ok, thanks! So maybe I should order the newest event deck and go from there. How long will that deck be legal in standard? Still kind of confused about the rotation schedule.
 

Haines

Banned
Thanks guys. Thinking of buying singles to make a standard deck, is there anything even remotely competitive that I can buy for $50 and under? Also thinking of starting to do draft games too to build a collection.

Are you new to magic? I just started out. I played some kitchen table to learn with solme of my buddys commons.

Played some packwars and now went to 2 sealed. Sealed is pretty good for getting a collection, and you dont have to have draft skills.

Im pretty bummed right now. Been wanting to go draft 3 weeks now but kept getting stuck working that time slot. I was making up for it hitting sealed, but even if i wanted to do that again, which i dont, im fairly sure its not running bc of game day. Looking like wont play first draft til November now.

Guess ill just play some kitchen table magic now that i have some cards, decks built.

There is a draft on sunday, but not even sure it always runs, and it could be rare redraft, so ill just wait til i can do the fmn.
 

ACE 1991

Member
Are you new to magic? I just started out. I played some kitchen table to learn with solme of my buddys commons.

Played some packwars and now went to 2 sealed. Sealed is pretty good for getting a collection, and you dont have to have draft skills.

Im pretty bummed right now. Been wanting to go draft 3 weeks now but kept getting stuck working that time slot. I was making up for it hitting sealed, but even if i wanted to do that again, which i dont, im fairly sure its not running bc of game day. Looking like wont play first draft til November now.

Guess ill just play some kitchen table magic now that i have some cards, decks built.

There is a draft on sunday, but not even sure it always runs, and it could be rare redraft, so ill just wait til i can do the fmn.

Yep, pretty much :)
 
Ok, thanks! So maybe I should order the newest event deck and go from there. How long will that deck be legal in standard? Still kind of confused about the rotation schedule.

Currently, Standard is:
Khans of Tarkir, Fate Reforged, Dragons of Tarkir
Magic Origins (final core set)
Battle for Zendikar

In January, Oath of the Gatewatch will be released, but it will just add to Standard. Nothing will rotate out.

At some point in spring, the "Tears" set will be released, and Standard will look like this:
Dragons of Tarkir, Magic Origins
Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch
"Tears"

The event deck has some cards from Khans of Tarkir, so in about six months, it will no longer be usable without modification.

Then "Fears" will be released in summer, and a new block will be started next fall"
Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch
"Tears", "Fears"
"Lock"
 

Haines

Banned
Whats the story behind core sets? They arent doing them anymore why? And have the come out every year since magic started or no?
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Whats the story behind core sets? They arent doing them anymore why? And have the come out every year since magic started or no?

Short version is that they realized core sets didn't have much purpose, as new players were jumping in wherever anyway. Also there's been a longstanding "three set problem" where either the third set in a block is underwhelming or they save good stuff for the third set and the second set suffers

Long version is here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mm/metamorphosis
 
Neat list of things stores did for the Battle for Zendikar prerelease

Uncharted Realms - Shaping an Army - Gideon tries to recruit Noyan Dar into his army. It turns out that the latter is the snooty college professor type and he views Gideon as an idiot. The trick behind being a lullmage was to maintain an inner peace, so to rile up the Roil, he's having his students make loud cacophonous chants to annoy him and each other. Gideon is not impressed by this, so he has them demonstrate their powers, and they are able to take out a large group of Eldrazi.

They also beat the foreshadowing drum by describing a merfolk legend where Cosi (Kozilek) tricks Ula (Ulamog) into seeking a pearl within the heart of the ocean, but when Ula touches the heart, it sneezes and traps him in a white bubble of snot, leaving Cosi free to snatch the pearl himself. Noyan states that's how most Cosi stories end, with him tricking Ula into doing something and then reaping the benefits himself.
 

Socat

Member
So if I was looking to jump into standard, this would be the deck I would want to buy to start out? I imagine if I go to any events I'll get totally rocked, though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGIC-THE-GATHERING-BATTLE-FOR-ZENDIKAR-EVENT-DECK-ULTIMATE-SACRIFICE-FREE-SHIP-/141806348200?hash=item21045127a8:g:UFQAAOSwKIpWFCMp

That is the event deck I mentioned, if you have any local game stores or target/walmart type stores that sell Magic, might want to check there to avoid paying shipping.
 

DashReindeer

Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
Yeah that made me laugh. Especially when paired up against Greedo. (though Han should be mono black)



A few others made me laugh too.



These are just cool

My friends and I made an entire Cube we draft from with custom cards based on different nerdy properties. We've got Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC, a whole bunch of anime, Ninja Turtles. It's meant to play like a power cube, so the power level of basically everything is hugely pushed. It's fun though, and something I've been meaning to put online for other people to use for some time now.

Han is red in our version.
 

Crocodile

Member
A lot of those Star Wars cards are awesome though also pretty broken/degenerate

Yeah, boosters usually cost £3.50 in the shops here. £5 for three packs is basically the cheapest you can get them online.

I don't understand what you mean by affecting gameplay - how the rares are redrafted shouldn't affect how you draft, as they're completely independent. I guess you might go for "fun" decks rather than strictly going for the "best" deck, but I'm OK with that. I play Magic for fun.

When I say affecting gameplay, I mean people making picks or plays without caring about victory. Like not mulliganing shitty hands because "who cares" or forcing bad draft archetypes or ones that aren't open and thus trainwrecking the draft for those near them or potentially even everybody. There are very few draft formats where I will force archetypes - I will draft whatever I think is open and most likely to win matches. When everybody does the same in the draft, there is implicit cooperation and multiple people get good decks. Good games follow when the decks are good and people are making legit efforts to win. When I'm spending money to draft, I much prefer that people are giving it their all. That is what is "fun" to me. In more casual formats like EDH, I think that matters a lot less and, for example, is part of the reason I actively try to avoid putting infinite combos in the EDH decks I make. They will be tight lists and try to brute force you or outvalue you but they aren't going to make you hate playing Magic.
 

Haines

Banned

Ok that was def a must read. Great. I have to agree core sets are dumb. When i started playing my buddy said i could buy it and learn it.

My response was

Why learn those mechanics and cards when i need to learn what ill be playing, bfz.

Part of the reason i have a hard time mustering up interest to play the ipad game.

I completely agree with the changes and 3 set blocks sound too long to me.
 
Let's be real though - how many "real" three set blocks have we really had lately? They've been screwing with traditional block design for a very long time.

Khans Block: Was really two 2-set blocks with an overlapping set.
Theros: True 3-set block.
Return to Ravnica: Two very distinct large sets that felt like they were designed almost in a vacuum (aside from Charms and the required guild leaders, there's very little design overlap), then a third (piece of junk). You can think of this as a miserable failure of a first attempt to do what Khans did right.
Innistrad: Innistrad + Dark Ascension are a cohesive set. Avacyn Restored might as well be another block.
Scars of Mirrodin: True 3-set block.
Zendikar: Same as Innistrad.
Shards of Alara: True 3-set block.
Llorwyn: Two 2-set blocks (kinda).

Starting with Time Spiral and going back is when you see the 3-block model being adhered to with consistency. The new 2-block model isn't really going to change much, other than remove their ability to do as many "wacky" things.
 

ACE 1991

Member
Ordered the Battle for Zendikar event deck and some sleeves. My good friend who plays vintage competitively agreed to play with me to show me some of the ropes.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Vader as a flip card is good, but having the front side be Darth Vader pre-mask and the flip side be Darth Vader post mask makes no sense. Vader is less powerful in the mask than he is as pre-mask.

If the front side is Anakin Skywalker, he should be white-black or even white-red and then mono-black on the back.
 
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