Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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divisionbyzorro
Member
Wild Mongrel and the whole UG madness crew.
Oh, and Psychatog.
Oh, and Psychatog.
Reanimate Reanimate Reanimate REANIMATE.
Counterspell
Armageddon
(kind of cheating since those are the three Legacy cards I would like the most to add to my Modern Cube)
EDIT: others include Braids, Smokestack, Ophiomancer, Natural Order, Sneak Attack, Recurring Nightmare, Firebolt, Control Magic, Opposition, Mother of Runes, Upheaval, Rofellos... eh so many cards. Just Reanimate would make me so happy though.
Counterspell
Armageddon
(kind of cheating since those are the three Legacy cards I would like the most to add to my Modern Cube)
EDIT: others include Braids, Smokestack, Ophiomancer, Natural Order, Sneak Attack, Recurring Nightmare, Firebolt, Control Magic, Opposition, Mother of Runes, Upheaval, Rofellos... eh so many cards. Just Reanimate would make me so happy though.
SigmasonicX
Member
I didn't watch the video, but I assume he was prioritizing creature destruction over big creatures.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The drafts posted are usually quite old probably before they sat down to try and digure out the format.
Retreat or Shepherd? Early or late? Was it in his colour or would he have to move into it?
Touch of the void could just have been hating on the card
I don't remember when and why it was picked but he ended up with UW flyers.
Retreat or Shepherd? Early or late? Was it in his colour or would he have to move into it?
Touch of the void could just have been hating on the card
I don't remember when and why it was picked but he ended up with UW flyers.
3rd pick.
Passes the retreat.
Heres the video. http://youtu.be/jv5WWQfjyn8
I guess void is good, and maybe im over value retreat with blue cards, but free 1/1 just for dropping land...so good to pass
Also wondering if i got bad advice from my friend.
He told me i should build decks in limited with 17 creaturEs, 6 spells, and 17 land
Most drafts i watch they build there deck with maybe 14 creatures 9 spells ish. Is it that they can get away with bc of awaken spells or whats the scoop here.
Passes the retreat.
Heres the video. http://youtu.be/jv5WWQfjyn8
I guess void is good, and maybe im over value retreat with blue cards, but free 1/1 just for dropping land...so good to pass
Also wondering if i got bad advice from my friend.
He told me i should build decks in limited with 17 creaturEs, 6 spells, and 17 land
Most drafts i watch they build there deck with maybe 14 creatures 9 spells ish. Is it that they can get away with bc of awaken spells or whats the scoop here.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Seemed like he didn't address it, might have overseen it completely or as said this was recorded before they realized the value of the card. IIRC people weren't that hot on it prerelease.
I would have gone for Nettle Drone pick 2 and then picked the touch of the void and gone for UR devoid. Didn't keep up how that'd have turned out though.
As towards deckbuilding that really depends you'll want a bunch of creatures but there really isn't a magical number afaik and depends on what your deck is trying to do. In most limited formats 17 lands is the consensus, for BfZ limited 18 are recommended though due to landfall and the importance of hitting land drops.
divisionbyzorro
Member
UR is considered to be one of the strongest archetypes in the format. Retreat is one of the best uncommons. It's actually a tough choice.
Yeah, i was wondering maybe blue just doesnt go that great with white, or allies and red was so good to grab void.
Makes sense guys, i guess im just a retreat fanboy, and void never excited me as much as others tho its absolutely a good card
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'd make the same pick Marshall did there. One of the things he talks about a lot on LR is evaluating cards for every stage of the game, and Retreat is a pretty poor topdeck, as well as a card that does literally nothing on turn 4, and makes a 1/1 on turn 5 if you have a land.
That said, if you have a slower deck that can get extra triggers or makes a bunch of tokens it's pretty solid, but there's going to be a non-zero amount of games where retreat is worse than something as borderline as Lithomancer's Focus. Touch of the Void is almost always going to be relevant and is one of the better commons in the set. It's reach in an aggressive deck, it's removal in a control deck, it's just a great card.
That said, if you have a slower deck that can get extra triggers or makes a bunch of tokens it's pretty solid, but there's going to be a non-zero amount of games where retreat is worse than something as borderline as Lithomancer's Focus. Touch of the Void is almost always going to be relevant and is one of the better commons in the set. It's reach in an aggressive deck, it's removal in a control deck, it's just a great card.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";182513525]I'd make the same pick Marshall did there. One of the things he talks about a lot on LR is evaluating cards for every stage of the game, and Retreat is a pretty poor topdeck, as well as a card that does literally nothing on turn 4, and makes a 1/1 on turn 5 if you have a land.
That said, if you have a slower deck that can get extra triggers or makes a bunch of tokens it's pretty solid, but there's going to be a non-zero amount of games where retreat is worse than something as borderline as Lithomancer's Focus. Touch of the Void is almost always going to be relevant and is one of the better commons in the set. It's reach in an aggressive deck, it's removal in a control deck, it's just a great card.[/QUOTE]
Appreciate the thought out response. Makes a lot of sense.
So pretty much, you wouldnt grab retreat until later in the drAft when you already had like allie white or something.
That said, if you have a slower deck that can get extra triggers or makes a bunch of tokens it's pretty solid, but there's going to be a non-zero amount of games where retreat is worse than something as borderline as Lithomancer's Focus. Touch of the Void is almost always going to be relevant and is one of the better commons in the set. It's reach in an aggressive deck, it's removal in a control deck, it's just a great card.[/QUOTE]
Appreciate the thought out response. Makes a lot of sense.
So pretty much, you wouldnt grab retreat until later in the drAft when you already had like allie white or something.
Couldn't agree more. The budget decks are fun, articles well written and researched, and the site itself is pretty useful for a variety of things. Easily my favorite MTG related website right now.
charlequin
Banned
Because, as others have said, it's like pool sharking: you set up a bunch of rules that act in favor of the venue's regulars, you present what's supposed to come off as a fair and friendly contest, and then you clean up off people who won't be back next week. When a store runs their events this way, it's usually for this exact purpose -- it makes the tournaments much less appealing to new or casual visitors, so it basically serves as a way to make regulars happy by increasing their prizes at the expense of other players.
Like: I don't think an individual person has to be a scammer to enjoy playing in a redraft environment (and I don't have any problem at all with people who buy in with friends to do on their own), but I do think it's fundamentally sleazy for a store to run open-to-the-public events that way.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Rare redrafting is just coerced theft. You paid for those cards. They are yours. Period.
I also paid for the expedition I cracked open in my first pack and had to pass if I wanted to actually play the game optimally. I don't buy into drafts for cards, I buy into it for the draft. If I played drafts to own the cool stuff I opened, I'd just skip the drafts and buy a box.
Having a layer on top that distorts the game for everyone at the table destroys the game just a little bit, and if the authority, be it the friend who brought packs for the draft, or the store, or the group of players themselves, want to do a rare redraft, I think that's a perfectly legitimate stance to take, There's no need for stooping to loaded language and insults in here. I've never even seen it used with a group with an inexperience player in person.
Slightly related, I wish Wizards would implement a draft mode in mtgo that mimicked Hearthstone's arena mode- draft for a lower fee, but you don't keep any of the cards you draft.
Having a layer on top that distorts the game for everyone at the table destroys the game just a little bit, and if the authority, be it the friend who brought packs for the draft, or the store, or the group of players themselves, want to do a rare redraft, I think that's a perfectly legitimate stance to take, There's no need for stooping to loaded language and insults in here. I've never even seen it used with a group with an inexperience player in person.
Slightly related, I wish Wizards would implement a draft mode in mtgo that mimicked Hearthstone's arena mode- draft for a lower fee, but you don't keep any of the cards you draft.
The chance of pulling something cool also boosts draft attendance. I for sure would never pay $13-15 for a draft experience if it didn't include me occasionally getting some value from the packs I opened. I'd just spend $5 and play constructed.
Optimal drafts are overrated. The amount of optimal picks I pass to take a money card is 2 or less per draft. There's still every other pick and the games themselves for me to have fun playing.
Btw I love when someone like you sits to my right. Only thing better than a 1st pick fetch is a 2nd pick fetch.
Phantom Draft exists in MTGO already.
Rare Redrafting is awesome when everyone's bringin their own set to the table- instead of pitching into a prize fund, you're just using the packs as the prize fund. In a store draft, they're providing the packs AND the prize fund. There's no need for a redraft.
Rare Redrafting is awesome when everyone's bringin their own set to the table- instead of pitching into a prize fund, you're just using the packs as the prize fund. In a store draft, they're providing the packs AND the prize fund. There's no need for a redraft.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ok? It's still fundamentally shitty for a store to do it, I don't get all the brow beating when it's shitty behaviour that doesn't promote a good environment. I'm not sure why you don't believe that it's ever done with inexperienced players just because you haven't seen it in person.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't care how "fun" variance is, if I get to turn 11 of a game and have yet to draw a land fuck this game,
I'm not saying the MTGO shuffler is rigged, but I seem to be getting literally 20+ lands (using Sowers) and no actual gas or 3 lands total for entire games of 20+ turns a piece.
I'm not saying the MTGO shuffler is rigged, but I seem to be getting literally 20+ lands (using Sowers) and no actual gas or 3 lands total for entire games of 20+ turns a piece.
Brow beating? What? I feel like all the brow beating in this thread is aimed at my side here. Those of us who ask stores to do rare redraft are getting crucified as thieves and terrible people. The insults are all coming from one end of the argument.
Where are you reading that I don't believe? The point was to illustrate that it can be done completely fairly and frequently so, not that it's never used illegitimately. I'm sure people have been ripped off, and that sucks. People have also been ripped off in trades and a billion other ways, but we don't stigmatize those practices. You just have to do it right. If someone in the group doesn't want to rare redraft, we don't have to do it.
Etrian Oddity
Member
It is. I have never had draws in real life be as abominable as mtgo.
Angry Grimace and I need to sit at an outside cafe table and complain about shit together. I think it'd make for good video.
manipulate
Member
Dyall reckon that's because the mtgo shuffler is actually random, as opposed to real life where folks inadvertently don't shuffle enough?
archnemesis
Member
I think it mostly because of optimistic deck builds and not enough use of mulligans. I never had issues with the MTGO shuffler back when I was still playing it.
I had the same problems with the mtg shuffler , variance is one thing but in any of their shufflers (dotp 13, 14, 15, and origins, and mtgo) its just fucked , draw 7 no lands, Milligan to 6 get 6 lands, mull to 5 none.
Too many times it would happen where I gave up on it as a whole , at one point I was drafting a lot, some days 3 or 4 times a day and finally when I got told "I'm crazy the shuffler is fine" after a particularly tough screw job by modo, I told a him the program was shit and that it's the reason people use cockatrice and xmage.
I've used the program maybe 3 or 4 times since and don't regret it at all. All I want to do is draft and care little for their "digital cards" (don't get me started on modo prices), instead I'll just go on cockatrice and draft for free. It's worth the hassle compared to mtgo.
It's nothing like pool sharking. That requires an element of deception. You have to convince and coerce people into playing a game they normally wouldn't by obscuring your skill level. In a rare draft, there is no one pretending to be a worse player than their actually are to try to trick players to join who normally wouldn't. As for new players, as I've always said, I understand some of them might be turned off. My experience has been stores that have done this have had no issue attracting, maintaining and getting repeat new/lapsed players to join said drafts.
I at least appreciate you can understand its value outside a store environment. You seemed opposed to it in all regards though perhaps I misinterpreted you.
Either way, I don't think that sort of loaded language has any place here regardless of your feelings on that drafting type. I neither feel its helpful nor, more important, accurate.
Yeah I've never run into an FNM that had rare redraft but I've attended lots of store drafts that I assumed were sanctioned. I guess they weren't? I dunno, its not like sanctioning is really worth anything anymore.
The cards you open and pay for at a GP or similar events aren't yours until after deck swap (though I guess the GP rules just changed). It's all dependent on what you agree to beforehand.
It's not just money cards but also cards "that aren't worth much but still really cool or I need for my collection". So it can often be more than just one or two picks. Opening packs is usually a losing proposition (if you're doing it to just get cards) but if you can open a large pool and win often enough, you come out ahead more often in the long run. I will also note that rare redrafts at every store I've been to are usually $10 which is cheaper than most drafts that only reward packs.
I dunno if its 100% random but its certainly more random than paper Magic
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yeah they are, hence you could just walk away with them before swapping them.
Wait.
Ive heard of this situation once before.
Xmage and cockatrice. Whats the magic communitys opinion on these? Are they better then mtgo and a necessary evil to make them get there butss in gear or something frowned upon if you admit to playing them. I have to assume they arent illegal if they havent been shutdown by magic?
I might check one out for interests sake on my surface pro.
Ive heard of this situation once before.
Xmage and cockatrice. Whats the magic communitys opinion on these? Are they better then mtgo and a necessary evil to make them get there butss in gear or something frowned upon if you admit to playing them. I have to assume they arent illegal if they havent been shutdown by magic?
I might check one out for interests sake on my surface pro.
Can't comment on xmage, but I like Cockatrice quite a bit. It's great for testing or practicing your paper decks without having to buy them twice. Also the interface feels more like playing paper Magic, misclicks aren't a huge deal.
Drafting on Cockatrice can be kinda lame cause people rarely keep playing after match 1, and sometimes not even that long. Still, it's nice for getting quick experience with a set without spending a ton of money.
As far as their legality, I imagine it's too much trouble for Wizards to bother with, as Cockatrice can be hosted on any private server. Not sure about the perception among the rest of the Magic community but really, who cares?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Top 8 decks at SCG states lol
divisionbyzorro
Member
The more I watch this Standard format, the more I have this feeling that Dark Jeskai is actually the best deck but requires significantly more skill/discipline to squeeze those extra wins out of it than, say, GW Megamorph.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Don't really get your point, tbh. The cards aren't yours until you pay for them, either. But either way, the packs you paid for are what you own.
There is a reason the word "coercion" exists in the English language. You can "agree" to all sorts of things. Players who talk new, or uninformed players into a unauthorized format that all but guarantees they're buying cards for the most experienced in the group are thieves.
Now, take 8 salty, jaded players and they all then agree to such a proposition then the whole scenario changes. Now it's just gambling.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The dirty secret of Magic is that the whole thing is gambling.
"God's Beard!"
Member
There's certainly more decision points just because of the mana base, looting and number of modular cards.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I didn't know you were German!
I think sealed's a better tool for getting started with limited. You get a pile of assorted cards and can mess with your deck all you want to see whether color X works well, if color Y's creatures are better than X's or if it's worth it splashing for a couple off-color cards. Meanwhile, you're probably screwed if you end up drafting colors that get cut, or if you aren't all that good at picking and end up with an imbalanced mana curve or card types.
The only downside is that sealed's more expensive than draft and you get less opportunities to try the format out outside of prereleases, since competitive REL events don't allow you to alter your pre-board maindeck at all.
A Serious Man
Member
Every time I get confused by a deck and can't figure out what they're playing, I realize I'm in the "Just Starting Out" lobby.
My buddy completely wrecked me and the whole draft last night with UR Eldrazi. The toughness on those creatures are so fat for so little cmc. It's also so easy to have synergy. So many good UR commons and uncommons.
Blue commons
Clutch of Currents
Benthic Infiltrator (this card is so annoying lol)
Eldrazi Skyspawner
Incubator Drone
Mist Intruder
Tightening Coil
Blue uncommons
Adverse Conditions
Ruination Guide
Tide Drifter (laughed at my RG aggro deck)
Spell Shrivel is actually a solid counter spell
Coastal Discovery
Red commons
Kozilek's Sentinel
Nettle Drone
Touch of the Void
Vestige of Emurkal
Rolling Thunder
Stone Fury
Red uncommons
Molten Nursery surprisingly did the most work for him. The fact that it can hit creatures makes this amazing. Shoots off several 2/1's and scions and it makes combat tricky.
Vile aggregate
UR
Herald of Kozilek
And that is just what I think is easily playable in the UR Eldrazi theme. There are several other cards that can make the cut. They really have the pick of the litter. Fat bodies to hold the ground, fliers for evasion, backed by a bunch of tempo spells. UR is nasty.
Totally agree.
Despite the mana base allowing three and four color builds to run rampant even without trilands I'm happy with this current Standard for the most part. I'm getting a kick out of brewing with Aristocrats deck lists. Mardu, Sultai, Abzan, 4-color, G/B, U/B, mono-black - all seem viable at the FNM level at least.
I appreciate that they play a different game outside of combat most of the time, like the short-lived U/R Tutelage decks. Better still is that they can still win through combat damage.
After some casual playtesting with the U/B list though, I'm wondering if Calcano had as much success as he did simply because his opponents had no idea what he was doing or even what cards he had in his deck.
Ultimate standard wish is for Baby Jace to be reprinted in a duel deck out of nowhere. Then budget players can enjoy playing with one of the coolest utility belt cards Wizards has ever printed.
+1 for the SaffronOlive props, too. Guy seems down-to-earth and knowledgeable.
I appreciate that they play a different game outside of combat most of the time, like the short-lived U/R Tutelage decks. Better still is that they can still win through combat damage.
After some casual playtesting with the U/B list though, I'm wondering if Calcano had as much success as he did simply because his opponents had no idea what he was doing or even what cards he had in his deck.
Ultimate standard wish is for Baby Jace to be reprinted in a duel deck out of nowhere. Then budget players can enjoy playing with one of the coolest utility belt cards Wizards has ever printed.
+1 for the SaffronOlive props, too. Guy seems down-to-earth and knowledgeable.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I just found out that one of my teachers back at art school was also Terese Nielson's.
:-o
Gotta live up to that pedigree, get hype! I need to go paint now.
:-o
Gotta live up to that pedigree, get hype! I need to go paint now.
are Phantom Drafts cheaper than normal drafts on MTGO, since you can't keep the cards?
and apparently I have enough play points to join a draft without paying, but I don't see anywhere how many points I have
and apparently I have enough play points to join a draft without paying, but I don't see anywhere how many points I have
yup just found it myself, but how do you get more points?
divisionbyzorro
Member
You can see your points in your collection, under the "Other Products" tab.
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