divisionbyzorro
Member
Gimme Conspiracy 2!!
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Gimme Conspiracy 2!!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Planechase 2009, Planechase 2012, Planchase....2015?
obviously its time to roll the planar die
obviously its time to roll the planar die
charlequin
Banned
Planechase was a pretty successful product, it supports Commander without having to be dedicated to it so it's still useful for people who play other casual formats, and it's easy to expand without needing a really crazy new gimmick every time, so I feel pretty confident they'll do another one at some point. Next summer would be a good time, it will have been four years.
I'm thinking they're going to be doing more booster-based supplemental sets for this exact reason. Conspiracy had some solid older reprints in it, and future sets like this could include some pretty spicy stuff without producing the kind of availability issues that the Commander decks have had in the past.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Not gonna lie, I would by the shit out of a booster pack driven Planechase designed around drafting if they printed it in oversized packs with one plane in each
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Y'all are all wrong. New Un-set or bust.
Silver-border reserved list reprints.
(Probably fake) Oath of the Gatewatch spoilers:
(I post it because Google Image Search seems to indicate that that's new Kozilek art.)
(I post it because Google Image Search seems to indicate that that's new Kozilek art.)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
So fake it hurts
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The land is what is game-breaking, not the creature.
It doesn't break anything, it doesn't have a basic land type.
- Really clean, never before seen art
- Appropriate copyright and card set info
- No weird camera angles, no blurriness
- Plausible evolution of major current mechanics
- Plausible and appropriate templating
- Not horribly degenerate or underpowered
Also that new land wouldn't count as a sixth type for Domain but would be a basic land EDH decks with a colorless general could use correct?
Correct.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The issue is that it doesn't actually solve the Barry's Land problem in any way. It's possible they simply decided to never do Barry's Land in favor of designing one to allow Colorless EDH decks to run a land.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The purpose of Barry's Land was increasing Domain count.
Correct. It's also quickly breaks a lot of stuff and isn't worth doing.
charlequin
Banned
As weird as these spoilers are -- and they really are super weird -- the art means you have to assume they're real to start. Pretty much every high-effort fake we've ever seen in 20 years of evaluating rumored cards can get busted by tracing back the artwork -- people don't have high-quality artwork just lying around, and so they have to find it the same way the people evaluating their card will, by poking around the internet. When a vaguely plausible card has never-before-seen artwork that's on-brand and accurate, it's probably real -- this is the same way we knew flip-Chandra was real when she got leaked super-early.
In this case the art is even extra specific. Kozilek obviously has a specific look, so any art of him should be something we can track down. And the wastes image is a landscape transformed into bismuth, which is an incredibly weird thing to have a picture of normally, but an incredibly normal thing to have as an illustration on a land in a set where Kozilek-brood eldrazi transform the land into bismuth.
If these are real though... goddamn what a weird fucking block. BFZ is already wild and incoherent and this seems like a pretty insane mechanic to introduce just for a single small set.
Correct, it just solves the Karn-on-a-Budget Commander problem.
In this case the art is even extra specific. Kozilek obviously has a specific look, so any art of him should be something we can track down. And the wastes image is a landscape transformed into bismuth, which is an incredibly weird thing to have a picture of normally, but an incredibly normal thing to have as an illustration on a land in a set where Kozilek-brood eldrazi transform the land into bismuth.
If these are real though... goddamn what a weird fucking block. BFZ is already wild and incoherent and this seems like a pretty insane mechanic to introduce just for a single small set.
Correct, it just solves the Karn-on-a-Budget Commander problem.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's what I'm saying - it doesn't solve the problem that Barry's Land couldn't make it out of development for, instead its aimed at something completely different. In that sense, it's not really a "solution" to the Barry's Land problem, its technically just something else. If you don't care about domain at all, then a sixth basic without a subtype is actually very easy under the rules with the Basic Land supertype in existence.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I want that to be true, but I don't know why they would wait till the small set to introduce the colorless mana symbol
Unless the idea is that you have to pay for it with Waste?
Unless the idea is that you have to pay for it with Waste?
charlequin
Banned
Sally has another one:
The thing that really throws me here is... why would it produce <>? And it's plausible for a mythic to not have reminder text explaining a new type of mana symbol, but kind of less so a rare. Although looking at Coldsnap, Rimefeather Owl is a rare that doesn't have the snow mana reminder text....
Yes, and Aaron Forsythe strongly hinted at PAX Aus last year that they were going to be doing this at some point in the future.
The thing that really throws me here is... why would it produce <>? And it's plausible for a mythic to not have reminder text explaining a new type of mana symbol, but kind of less so a rare. Although looking at Coldsnap, Rimefeather Owl is a rare that doesn't have the snow mana reminder text....
Yes, and Aaron Forsythe strongly hinted at PAX Aus last year that they were going to be doing this at some point in the future.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, if its not just a new shorthand for colorless mana at what point is this literally just a sixth color in everything except effects that care about the number of colors?
Sally has another one:
Hm. Why does this say "add one (diamond colorless) to your mana pool", rather than just say "add 1 to your mana pool"?
Is the diamond going to be the new standard for 1 colorless mana and be printed on everything that does so?
It's a psuedo-6th color that's backwards compatible.
To establish the colorless mana symbol.
charlequin
Banned
I really hope they don't carry over "add <> to your mana pool" outside of this set, it's kind of hideous.
God, it's so weird to introduce this mid-block.
God, it's so weird to introduce this mid-block.
This also is exactly what is produced by Herald of Kozilek and Shrine of the Forsaken Gods.
It also plays very nicely with the cycle of uncommon sacrifice lands from Battle.
Battle is absolutely full of cards that produce colorless mana, though. The symbol is new, but it plays extremely well with what they've already one.
It also plays very nicely with the cycle of uncommon sacrifice lands from Battle.
Battle is absolutely full of cards that produce colorless mana, though. The symbol is new, but it plays extremely well with what they've already one.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This should have been in set 1, and OGW should have been introducing Devoid cards or something
I agree with this, it would also increase the amount of these lands in the total public too rather than just one set.. So weird.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
No, because nothing else uses it. It just makes casting specific spells harder since nothing else actually uses Eldrazi Mana for anything.
I imagine the basic is a formality and something for draft rather than constructed. We have a ton of lands that tap for colorless in BFZ, and would bring back the painlands from Origins to a little relevance if it takes off.
Basic lets them be used in EDH and be searched up. It's very relevant.
SigmasonicX
Member
Nothing has indicated that <> is the same as (1).
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would think it's safe to assume that even if it isn't the same thing, it's probably colorless because if it wasn't it would break the game in a bunch of other ways.
divisionbyzorro
Member
<> isn't colorless mana. It can just be spent as colorless, just like every other color can. It will be called "colorless" so as not to screw with the color pie, work with EDH, and play nicely with 21 years of Magic history, but it's just a sixth type of mana and thus basically a sixth color.
<> costs can only be paid with <> mana. Colorless costs can be paid with <> or any other color. We're going to need a name for <> mana; I guess we'll call it "grey" mana?
Ugh I like this less and less the more I see it.
<> costs can only be paid with <> mana. Colorless costs can be paid with <> or any other color. We're going to need a name for <> mana; I guess we'll call it "grey" mana?
Ugh I like this less and less the more I see it.
SigmasonicX
Member
I'm inclined to think it's like the snow mana symbol in costs, in that <> can only be paid for by <>.
The weirdest part of these cards is precisely that there is no reminder text.
divisionbyzorro
Member
No, <> mana is <> mana. It's not (1) mana. You can just spend it that way, the same as you could any other color. It's functionally a sixth color that will be called "colorless" because adding a sixth color isn't something you can really do at this stage.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
For whatever weird reason having it be in Kozilek's mana cost is fine to me but having it also be in the cost of activated abilities is where I start to like it less
Sol Ring produces (2). Which is now <> <>.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't think this is quite accurate either, although they're going to call it "colorless" because of course they are
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, it's not even that it's weird adding the mechanic midblock (since, as you note, they do at least have the stuff necessary to support it.) It's really that adding a symbol for colorless mana halfway through a block, after printing a ton of cards that use the old symbol for it, is aesthetically super jarring.
divisionbyzorro
Member
See, I would have made "Wastes" tap for (1) and have the <> symbol be a "cost only" symbol, much like how Phyrexian Mana is a cost-only symbol. Then you have <> mana costs only payable with colorless mana. Boom. Way cleaner than adding a seventh type of mana that can be in your pool.
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