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[GregLombardi]

Expeditions have long been confirmed to be in Oath, since the announcement of BFZ I believe. They're a different set of 20 Expeditions though so they're not reprinting the same ones. The amount of play that, for instance, the Fetches see is orders of magnitude greater than the Duals and as such the floor for special printings of foils like that is still pretty high. The likelihood of a reprint in the next 3-4 years is basically nil.

Didn't know it was confirmed that expeditions are getting reprinted...so are they just different art? Keep in mind though, some of the play that fetches see is directly related to the Duals themselves. Both are very powerful effects, they are extremely powerful when put together especially.

Commander is realistically the only real driver for growth here as the other two formats aren't growing anywhere near the speed of Commander or, say, Modern. Since EDH is a singleton format it doesn't drive prices nearly as quickly so growth will be modest at best. Now, if I were getting out of Duals I would probably keep one of each so that I could play with them in EDH in the future but there's realistically no reason to hold onto more than that if you're either A) Not using them in multiple EDH decks and value not switching cards between decks more than the value those cards represent or B) Regularly playing Legacy/Vintage/Casual with the cards.

Growth of original Duals = (Partial) Growth of Magic + Inflation + Growth of Commander + Growth of Legacy + Growth of Vintage. I agree the last 2 are very small, but 1 and 3 should make you stop and think.

There's literally no possibility of this happening. One of the primary reasons for the creation of Modern and Wizards promotion of the format over Legacy/Vintage is the Reserved List. Now, if Wizards were to "merge" Duals into Modern as you're saying they would have to reprint them into the format, basically nixing the Reserved List as we know it and infuriating a lot of Stores and Collectors at the same time. So either Duals somehow find their way into Modern via a reprint and thus their price is, at least for a time, reduced because of the massively increased supply or they stay as is and see very modest growth annually until either Legacy/Vintage peter out (unlikely) or the concerns over Reserved List card authenticity degrade confidence such that it sparks a price correction of some sort.

I agree here. It is highly unlikely. Still, Wizards may have a few things to say about Legacy without reprinting the dual lands. Things that change the format significantly.

The thing is, they are being reprinted. It's just by Chinese counterfeiters in smaller batches instead of by WOTC. The only way trading out of a card can go wrong is if you end up wanting to trade back into the card in the future and the card is now considerably more valuable compared to the net value (in whatever combination of financial, sentimental, or functional) you got from the original trade. That's it. Obviously if you have authentic Alpha Duals, Power Nine, or something along those lines I'd be a bit more hesitant about trading out but with cards printed after ABU, like Revised Duals and FoW, the financial burden created by getting back in at a later date isn't so considerable that I'd value that over actually getting to play Magic. Ideally I'd be trading into cards like Modern staples that I was reasonably sure would retain most of their value over time if I decided to swap back into the Legacy cards.

I think the first statement here is highly difficult to prove. I was able to spot a counterfeit lotus on Ebay without even zooming in on the picture. There are also tons of other methods used to verify counterfeits. It is a problem, but I think to start your argument with "they are being reprinted" makes a whole host of assumptions that are a little bit difficult to swallow. My argument is that original duals are a safer "hold" than expeditions...Wizards can do whatever they want with expeditions, and likely will. Printing more of different art (assuming they aren't different cards), actually decreases the value of expeditions in some way since, although they are more unique, you can basically have your pick of the litter and don't need all of them.

 

[OnPoint]

Didn't know it was confirmed that expeditions are getting reprinted...so are they just different art? Keep in mind though, some of the play that fetches see is directly related to the Duals themselves. Both are very powerful effects, they are extremely powerful when put together especially.

It's 20 different lands. Not the same 25.

I agree here. It is highly unlikely. Still, Wizards may have a few things to say about Legacy without reprinting the dual lands. Things that change the format significantly.

They'll never put the duals into Modern without reprinting them to hell. It would crater the prices.

I think the first statement here is highly difficult to prove. I was able to spot a counterfeit lotus on Ebay without even zooming in on the picture. There are also tons of other methods used to verify counterfeits. It is a problem, but I think to start your argument with "they are being reprinted" makes a whole host of assumptions that are a little bit difficult to swallow. My argument is that original duals are a safer "hold" than expeditions...Wizards can do whatever they want with expeditions, and likely will. Printing more of different art (assuming they aren't different cards), actually decreases the value of expeditions in some way since, although they are more unique, you can basically have your pick of the litter and don't need all of them.

There's been a lot of talk about how the dual counterfeits are getting crazy good. It's no joke, and it's been discussed in the past in this thread. I think that if they were to ever "reprint" the Expeditions, they wouldn't be straight reprints. They'd be some other similar kind of program.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's 20 different lands. Not the same 25.



They'll never put the duals into Modern without reprinting them to hell. It would crater the prices.


There's been a lot of talk about how the dual counterfeits are getting crazy good. It's no joke, and it's been discussed in the past in this thread. I think that if they were to ever "reprint" the Expeditions, they wouldn't be straight reprints. They'd be some other similar kind of program.

The funniest thing that would happen if they reprinted the ABU Duals for Modern is shocklands being worthless outside of commander.

 

[charlequin]

So you are, or are not an advocate for selling out of the duals and into Expeditions?

Life's too short to hold onto Legacy cards just because they might go up in value. If you really play the format, keep them around so you can keep doing so, but otherwise, unload them for something that'll be more useful for decks you'll actually play.

Note: that's just saying in a vacuum you should unload them at the right moment, I'm pretty sure other people here have a better idea about when precisely would be the best time to do so.

[quote="God's Beard!";186212630]All the good eldrazi commissions are painted in a way that makes them as majestic as they are unsettling, which really contributes towards their otherworldliness. I'm generally not a fan of humanoid aliens, but they've certainly minimized the anthropomorphism.[/quote]

Yes, the Eldrazi do a good job of having alien creatures that are in a broad sense shaped like humans without in any way feeling humanized by that similarity.

(I also really like how they become progressively less human as you move from Ulamog through Kozilek and finally to Emrakul.)

 

[Joba62x]

Its funny that the reserved list was supposed to ensure the value of duals etc. and in the end its what will kill them. Dat value

 

[GregLombardi]

Its funny that the reserved list was supposed to ensure the value of duals etc. and in the end its what will kill them. Dat value

Duals have increased 10x in price in the past 15 years and significantly since the reserved list...I'm not sure I see killed value.

 

[blindrocket]

Duals have increased 10x in price in the past 15 years and significantly since the reserved list...I'm not sure I see killed value.

I think that he either means it leads to them being reprinted officially, or, it leads to high quality counterfeits that are readily available at a cheap price. Therefore making the original duals not valuable to anyone that doesn't mind playing a near indistinguishable and cheap counterfeit.

 

[Joba62x]

What is far, far, far more likely is that legacy continues to lose official support to the point where it's not played at the prices for those cards plummet to the ceiling. Once they're not usable they quickly become cardboard again.

This is what I was referring to, SCG and Wotc moving on to modern because you can make much more money off it and what will happen in the next few year s not the last 15.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Anyone else just doesn't want to make even a partial blue commander deck because there's just too many cards that'd feel like must includes?

I think my next deck will be Xenagos Dragons. I just disassembled m Jund Dragons kitchen table deck anyway.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Anyone else just doesn't want to make even a partial blue commander deck because there's just too many cards that'd feel like must includes?

I think my next deck will be Xenagos Dragons. I just disassembled m Jund Dragons kitchen table deck anyway.

Not really? What's such a mandatory include? You definitely don't need Force of Will or anything. I put Misdirection in one of mine because it cost 3 dollars.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Not really? What's such a mandatory include? You definitely don't need Force of Will or anything. I put Misdirection in one of mine because it cost 3 dollars.

Idk I'd just want all the good stuff, the card draw and the counters basically and the jaces, I guess it's an odd issue.

 

[Firemind]

well, you can't put ancestral recall in your deck so...

to this day i'm still baffled on how horribly unbalanced that cycle was.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Can someone link me to that joke card with Craterhoof Behemoth? The one that's just "Green Win Condition"... My google searches are failing me.

EDIT: Got it.

http://i.imgur.com/1Q5UOeI.jpg?1

 

[Son1x]

Played standard at LGS today and went 3-0-1 with Noyan Ascendancy. ID'd the last match but we still played and I won 2-0. Got a Roast promo and 5 boosters but they were pretty bad. Smoldering Marsh and bulk rares.

Playing modern FNM tomorrow then Standard PPTQ on Saturday. Should be fun.

I took my newly built WR Twin to the modern FNM and ended up splitting in the finals again. 3-0-1 2 days in the row, first time playing decks too.

First match was against Suicide Zoo. Lost the first game due to some misplays but I got him the other two. Finished the last game with the Bell-Ringer Twin combo.
I was downpaired with a Grixis Control that tied in the first match. We went to time in the third game but I managed to resolve Bell-Ringer and Kikijiki. All 3 games were rather grindy, with both of us topdecking. Twinning Wall of Omens is pretty effective.
Third match was against Jund. Both games were grindy again. Blood Moon really did great here (also against Grixis) and Blade Splicer traded evenly with Kolaghans Command, which was nice. G2 I kept a hand with 4 removal spells and lands.
Last round I was paired with Lantern Control. We ID'd but still played for fun. Ended up losing 0-2.

Overall I'm really impressed with how well this deck plays. I have 13 removal spells so theres a lot of interaction and half the creatures have flash. Blood Moon in main does wonders in local meta. With 4 Restoration Angels and 4 Blade Splicers and some Twin/Kiki copying, its really great at beating down the opponent. Had Faith's Shield, Buffer the Wicked and Guttural Response in sideboard and ended up casting all 3 at least once. Didn't get to counter a counter, but I saved my Blood Moon from Abrupt Decay.

Got 5 booster and a FNM promo Roast again, but the boosters were underwhelming. Foil Swamp and Oblivion Sower, everything else was crap.

 

[bigkrev]

Man, we miss a lot by not being able to watch JPN tournament coverage

 

[ultron87]

I greatly enjoy killing people with Nettle Drones.

 

[Joe Molotov]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";186206186]Since I'm tired of complaining about how bad the BFZ art is, here's my top 3 non-land art in the set:

[/QUOTE]

Drowner of Hope is cool, and I like the fact that the two scions that it summons are actually there on the card with it.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

You know, I didn't really play a lot of Magic Origins. I'm actually really enjoying this Sealed league on the beta. It's reaffirmed to me that this, more than anything, is what I want from MTGO: the ability to play a meaningful match of Magic, one at a time, whenever I can squeeze it in. It's awesome.

 

[OnPoint]

well, you can't put ancestral recall in your deck so...

to this day i'm still baffled on how horribly unbalanced that cycle was.

You absolutely can, it's just got Delve now.

 

[traveler]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";186206186]Since I'm tired of complaining about how bad the BFZ art is, here's my top 3 non-land art in the set:

Oracle of Dust specifically is a world-class fantasy illustration, with the very Anders Zorn-informed water painting technique being a stand-out for me. I like Skyspawner's painting technique better than Drowner of Hope, but Hope's storytelling edges it out.[/QUOTE]

These looks so much better in full art. Drowner of Hope never struck me as anything special just glancing at the card, but its beautiful here. Wish we could get promo full art versions of all of these.

 

[Yeef]

You absolutely can, it's just got Delve now.

Treasure Cruise (and Dig Through Time) are banned in every format except Standard and Vintage.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Treasure Cruise (and Dig Through Time) are banned in every format except Standard and Vintage.

They're completely legal in Commander, which is what the discussion is about.

I have a U/W deck, but I intentionally didn't fill it with counterspells because I don't think thtey're casually fun cards. Stuff like Misdirection is a lot more fun than just countering shit.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I misdirected my gf's Sign In Blood and as it tuns out commander has a longer ban list than I thought.

 

[WanderingWind]

..."plummet to the ceiling?" Christ. Get 2-3 pumpkin ales in me and I lose all ability to write.

 

[traveler]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";186258134]I misdirected my gf's Sign In Blood and as it tuns out commander has a longer ban list than I thought.[/QUOTE]

I'm confused. Neither misdirection nor sign in blood is banned.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm confused. Neither misdirection nor sign in blood is banned.

...she banned my misdirection for salt reasons.

 

[traveler]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";186258629]...she banned my misdirection for salt reasons.[/QUOTE]

I'm dumb

At least it was sign in blood. There's far worse things to get misdirected in edh....

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'm dumb

At least it was sign in blood. There's far worse things to get misdirected in edh....

Like Time Warp

 

[ironmang]

Anybody else here at gp pitt?

 

[OnPoint]

..."plummet to the ceiling?" Christ. Get 2-3 pumpkin ales in me and I lose all ability to write.

I caught that but I was like 'eh, everybody gets one' lol

 

[Matriox]

Anybody else here at gp pitt?

I am! Goofy tall dude in a blue Ricky Bobby hat that says "I wanna go fast!". I'm 3-0 so far with Uw Taking Turns, just beat Dylan Donegan playing Ur twin

 

[bigkrev]

What the hell is happening at GP Pitt? They just announced another delay due to the event going long. How do you not start Round 4 before 2pm local time?!?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Man, I can never get these Oath/Storm cube drafts to work out. Should probably go back to mono brown or random midrange/reanimator strategies.

Oath side is fine, but getting all the Storm cards is hard since half of them are just generically good cantrips taken by other decks. So if I don't draw the oath half or they are able to remove my 1-3 creatures(in this case Emrakul and Blightsteel) I kinda do nothing lol

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

What the hell is happening at GP Pitt? They just announced another delay due to the event going long. How do you not start Round 4 before 2pm local time?!?

Judge call and round extension

 

[kirblar]

GP Pitt sounds like a nightmare.

 

[bigkrev]

GP Pitt sounds like a nightmare.

Didn't they have a relatively low cap for the location (east coast) and format (modern)? People were bitching about it.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Didn't they have a relatively low cap for the location (east coast) and format (modern)? People were bitching about it.

Yep, one of my friends was only able to get in last night due to cancellations.

 

[Matriox]

4-2 so far with Uw Taking Turns, Lost to suicide Naya and Temur twin. Gotta win out >.<

GP Pitt sounds like a nightmare.

Definately isn't very cool having hour and a half rounds... It's pretty abysmal.

Edit: some have been close to 2 hours long.

 

[kirblar]

Didn't they have a relatively low cap for the location (east coast) and format (modern)? People were bitching about it.

Very low- 2500.

SCG's had Modern/Legacy GPs in the 4-5K range, expecting less than 3K is insanity.

 

[Angry Grimace]

4-2 so far with Uw Taking Turns, Lost to suicide Naya and Temur twin. Gotta win out >.<

Definately isn't very cool having hour and a half rounds... It's pretty abysmal.

Edit: some have been close to 2 hours long.

Now picture the scene if Second Sunrise was legal

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Now picture the scene if Second Sunrise was legal

Why not top?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Why not top?

Second Sunrise is worse than top because of the way the deck actually operates because it's not even that it makes games go long, it can take like 15 minutes for a random turn. If you're in turns, that means the whole tournament is going long. Kibler once wrote "F6" on a piece of paper and walked off playing an Eggs opponent.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Second Sunrise is worse than top because of the way the deck actually operates because it's not even that it makes games go long, it can take like 15 minutes for a random turn. If you're in turns, that means the whole tournament is going long. Kibler once wrote "F6" on a piece of paper and walked off playing an Eggs opponent.

yeah but that's only 1 type of deck, top could go into pretty much every deck.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Played a Holiday Cube draft. First picked Captain Sisay and made a GW deck splashing black for Black Sun's Zenith and Griselbrand LOL

 

[Angry Grimace]

yeah but that's only 1 type of deck, top could go into pretty much every deck.

The difference is the Top can make lots of games go to time, but Eggs delays the entire tournament because a single turn while you're on turns can take 15+ minutes. You only need one guy on Eggs to delay the whole tournament. This is why Second Sunrise is banned.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The difference is the Top can make lots of games go to time, but Eggs delays the entire tournament because a single turn while you're on turns can take 15+ minutes. You only need one guy on Eggs to delay the whole tournament. This is why Second Sunrise is banned.

Well so is top, worst part of Second Sunrise though is that such a long turn doesn't even guarantee the kill.

 

[Firemind]

TIL everyone plays 5c in the legendary cube. Like, there are almost no downsides since the fixing is so good.

All Sun's Dawn is especially insane in this cube. I'd snap pick it and I don't even like Green in this cube.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Well so is top, worst part of Second Sunrise though is that such a long turn doesn't even guarantee the kill.

Top doesn't make 15 minute turns it just sends more games to time, which is why SS worse in terms of tournament play. Some number of players will go to turns in any case. Very few of them will have 15 minute turns unless they're playin Eggs.

 

["God's Beard!"]

4-2 so far with Uw Taking Turns, Lost to suicide Naya and Temur twin. Gotta win out >.<

Definately isn't very cool having hour and a half rounds... It's pretty abysmal.

Edit: some have been close to 2 hours long.

You're Gerard Fabiano? :-o

 

[Matriox]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";186323969]You're Gerard Fabiano? :-o[/QUOTE]

Lol.

Ended up losing the next round and dropping against Junk. Had fun, 4-3 overall. Can't complain too badly considering this is my first time playing a gp, first time playing the deck, and 3rd modern tourney I've ever been in. Going back tomorrow for random side events... Assuming they have any considering they had zero on demand side events today...