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[Angry Grimace]

Well... yes and no. Leaking means a) people get worked up about stuff too early, so the hype cycle gets bumpy and b) WotC can't control what people know so misinformation or confusion can run rampant.

In this particular case, a) definitely applies (and they're gonna be pissed about that) but I'm not sure about b). My guess is still that these leaked so early because they were intended as an early preview of the set for a few weeks from now. Showing off Kozilek and the Wastes gives us all the info we need to make pretty strong predictions about the mechanic, and it shows us a splashy marquee card using it so people get excited about the potential -- you can see from people pissed at BFZ perking their ears up a little that this is a pretty good card to promote the set.



Yeah, not having interesting stuff is definitely not BFZ's problem, it actually has a ton of interesting stuff. The (tightly related) problems are basically 1) it has a fundamental inspiration problem that led to weird results with the Eldrazi, 2) design went late and late designs that need to be salvaged by development are always bad sets, therefore 3) it's kind of an incoherent hot mess, especially next to something elegant like Khans.



As a general rule, I'd say:

• Enfranchised players compare sets to each other, casual players judge them in a vacuum
• Enfranchised players care more about the set as a whole, casual players care more about the quality of the coolest standalone cards they can get
• Enfranchised players care about limited, casual players don't

The biggest issues with BFZ all fall squarely in the enfranchised side of this list.

Yeah, don't let that make it sound like I'm endorsing BFZ: it's an atrocious set by any reasonable metric. The feeling that the cards themselves don't do anything just comes from being compared to busier, more coherent sets in both limited and Standard.

 

[Socat]

GD that is pretty. Wonder if it will get a reprint or remake soon. Would be nice

 

[duxstar]

BFZ has been selling gangbusters. It's a very popular set. Don't let the vocal minority on the internet fool you.

Force of Will isn't on the reserve list.

The last 3 events i went to, Modern, Draft, Standard all didn't fire; Standard had 4 people, and other places have drafts that aren't even firing anymore and we are 2+ months away from a new set to draft.

If this set is really popular i am not seeing it anywhere. Sure it sold well thanks to expeditions, and people buying boxes but other than that the consensus is the set is bad

 

[red13th]

That {chaos} rule change is very telling.
(c) opens up some design space, I wonder how much of it they will explore in Oath.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

GD that is pretty. Wonder if it will get a reprint or remake soon. Would be nice

I think Rishadan Port might be in my top 5 cards of all time that I'd love to play with, but never have. One day...

I actually just assumed it was on the Reserved List until I re-checked. The fact that any Homelands cards on that list cracks me up. Looking at the price list on that set reminded me that I had wanted to pick up a playset of Didgeridoo to build with

 

[Maledict]

I think Rishadan Port might be in my top 5 cards of all time that I'd love to play with, but never have. One day...

I actually just assumed it was on the Reserved List until I re-checked. The fact that any Homelands cards on that list cracks me up. Looking at the price list on that set reminded me that I had wanted to pick up a playset of Didgeridoo to build with

Speaking as someone who played Magic properly and seriously during the era it was released - I would not advise it. It's one of the least fun cards they ever made, and god knows what was going through their heads during that set design other than "MAKE EVERYTHING AS WEAK AS POSSIBLE".

 

[Santiako]

Oh man, I remember my RDW with 4 Wastelands, 4 Rishadan Ports, 4 Tangle Wires and 4 Pillages (plus 4 Stone Rain on the sideboard). That deck was just brutal.

 

[Firemind]

Speaking as someone who played Magic properly and seriously during the era it was released - I would not advise it. It's one of the least fun cards they ever made, and god knows what was going through their heads during that set design other than "MAKE EVERYTHING AS WEAK AS POSSIBLE".

*except lin sivvi

Then they corrected themselves with Invasion. MM+INV+7th might be my favourite Standard format of all time.

 

[Santiako]

*except lin sivvi

Then they corrected themselves with Invasion. MM+INV+7th might be my favourite Standard format of all time.

Fires of Yavimaya + Saproling Burst too stronk

 

[Firemind]

Fires of Yavimaya + Saproling Burst too stronk

This was a time when Absorb and Undermine were $20+ cards. Absorb is literally Counterspell + Healing Salve and Counterspell was legal since it was in MM.

This was a time when you could play Blazing Specter on turn two with the help of Dark Ritual and it still sometimes wouldn't be good enough.

This was a time when you could play Daze, Counterspell, Thwart with Thieving Magpie and Mahamoti Djinn as the win condition in a mono blue draw go shell.

This was a time when mono red could play Stone Rain, Pillage and Rishadan Port and its best creature was Goblin Raider.

Opposition and Static Orb were legal together.

What a time to be alive.

 

[Santiako]

This was a time when Absorb and Undermine were $20+ cards. Absorb is literally Counterspell + Healing Salve and Counterspell was legal since it was in MM.

This was a time when you could play Blazing Specter on turn two with the help of Dark Ritual and it still sometimes wouldn't be good enough.

This was a time when you could play Daze, Counterspell, Thwart with Thieving Magpie and Mahamoti Djinn as the win condition in a mono blue draw go shell.

This was a time when mono red could play Stone Rain, Pillage and Rishadan Port and its best creature was Goblin Raider.

Opposition and Static Orb were legal together.

What a time to be alive.

Yeah, it was incredibly fun.

 

[Xis]

Maybe this isn't cool, but I had to brag somewhere:

I am now the proud owner of a complete playset (4x) of Theros block. Just picked up the last few cards I needed. Collecting a whole block has been something I've wanted to do for years.

Theros isn't even my favorite block or anything! It just happened to be the current one out when I finally got serious. I do like how it's the last Large / Small / Small block, and I also like that it has all ten color pairs represented (feels more complete to me). It's relatively tame setting and mechanics makes it feel closer to "baseline" Magic, if that makes any sense.

 

[blindrocket]

Someone on MTGS pointed something interesting out about a rules change between DTK and Origins

Interesting. So we could potentially see a casting cost of something like 6CC or 2WBC Or some oddity.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Maybe this isn't cool, but I had to brag somewhere:

I am now the proud owner of a complete playset (4x) of Theros block. Just picked up the last few cards I needed. Collecting a whole block has been something I've wanted to do for years.

Theros isn't even my favorite block or anything! It just happened to be the current one out when I finally got serious. I do like how it's the last Large / Small / Small block, and I also like that it has all ten color pairs represented (feels more complete to me). It's relatively tame setting and mechanics makes it feel closer to "baseline" Magic, if that makes any sense.

Haha, congrats!

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wonder if he'd just come out and say "that shit is fake" if it was.

Q: remember-the-lmao asked: For the people new to how Magic spoilers work, and since I'm sure you're already getting questions, isn't the rule still that you cannot comment on spoilers until they appear on the official WoTC Magic website?

A: I only comment on official spoilers but there are ways for them to be official other than appearing on our website.

He's probably bummed that shit leaked.

 

[blindrocket]

Maybe this isn't cool, but I had to brag somewhere:

I am now the proud owner of a complete playset (4x) of Theros block. Just picked up the last few cards I needed. Collecting a whole block has been something I've wanted to do for years.

Theros isn't even my favorite block or anything! It just happened to be the current one out when I finally got serious. I do like how it's the last Large / Small / Small block, and I also like that it has all ten color pairs represented (feels more complete to me). It's relatively tame setting and mechanics makes it feel closer to "baseline" Magic, if that makes any sense.

Good for you. I like the Gods themselves. Not all of them are good, and even the good ones aren't usually universally great either. But a few of them definitely are good in certain situations.

Bestow was pretty neat. Monstrous was okay.

 

[blindrocket]

I wonder if he'd just come out and say "that shit is fake" if it was.



He's probably bummed that shit leaked.

I wonder where that was going to be spoiled in the first place and who lost that thunder. Something that big, maybe the mother ship.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wonder where that was going to be spoiled in the first place and who lost that thunder. Something that big, maybe the mother ship.

That's not normal size, it looks like a rip from a presentation like the ones they do at PAX.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

It's almost understandable considering the scale of this addition. Not that a leak, if unintentional, is justified...

I mean, there has never been a new basic land in the history of the game. Snow is a Supertype.

 

[Ashodin]

I wonder if he'd just come out and say "that shit is fake" if it was.



He's probably bummed that shit leaked.

yeeeeeah it's real

 

[Hackworth]

EDIT: darn, they're real?

Maybe this isn't cool, but I had to brag somewhere:

I am now the proud owner of a complete playset (4x) of Theros block. Just picked up the last few cards I needed. Collecting a whole block has been something I've wanted to do for years.

Theros isn't even my favorite block or anything! It just happened to be the current one out when I finally got serious. I do like how it's the last Large / Small / Small block, and I also like that it has all ten color pairs represented (feels more complete to me). It's relatively tame setting and mechanics makes it feel closer to "baseline" Magic, if that makes any sense.

Nah that's pretty cool. Congrats!

Also I feel like enchantment creatures should show up more. They feel like a thing that the game should have had from near the start, like artifact creatures were.

 

[Ashodin]

Can I just say how fucking sexy

this is? It's so elegant.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Nothing more embarrassing than the creature you hit off Oath of Druids being the last card in your library.

:-(

 

[GregLombardi]

I've been hearing a lot of talk in the local scene here that the enemy fetches are coming this set. FWIW.

 

[kirblar]

I've been hearing a lot of talk in the local scene here that the enemy fetches are coming this set. FWIW.

I don't think they have space, and it would stick us with these insane manabases for a year more.

 

[A Serious Man]

I've been hearing a lot of talk in the local scene here that the enemy fetches are coming this set. FWIW.

MaRo has already said that they don't want the fetches+battlelands chicanery to exist for their entire standard run, so the earliest we'll get enemy fetches is the set that rotates BfZ out.

 

[OnPoint]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";186022592]Nothing more embarrassing than the creature you hit off Oath of Druids being the last card in your library.

:-([/QUOTE]

Unless that creature is Laboratory Maniac.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wonder if they'll ever do a collision of worlds again, Rath and Dominaria style.

Like say we go to Ravnica 3rd time and a 4th time would really just end up being boring, especially now that due to PWs hundreds of years can't pass in between as easily. So say Niv Mizzet gets really bored but can't figure out how to become a Walker so instead he goes to finding Ravnica a new home and promptly crashes it into Dominaria.

NVM sounds awful.

 

[Xis]

I wonder if they'll ever do a collision of worlds again, Rath and Dominaria style.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this with the Phyrexians.

 

[OnPoint]

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this with the Phyrexians.

I feel like they'll be the group to crack the "how" of the eldrazi and they'll use Emrakul to go from plane to plane somehow.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this with the Phyrexians.

I feel like they'll be the group to crack the "how" of the eldrazi and they'll use Emrakul to go from plane to plane somehow.

I want real clashing though like how Rath brought the Kor to dominaria

Lorwyn colliding with Innistrad for instance which are pretty opposites with similarities.
Would also fit the day/night and DFC theme.

God now I really want this.

 

[Wulfric]

Oh, so the cards are semi-confirmed now? That's cool, but we're at least a few weeks off from spoiler season. It's a shame they came out so early, Maro and co. must be annoyed. But considering Commander is the last product of the year, we might as well speculate how these cards will work in the larger scheme of the block.

How will this even function in EDH and draft? They're going to need Wastes to show up in nearly every pack if they want this mechanic to be worth something in limited. And I don't see them doing something like supplying LGS's with Wastes, even if the card calls itself a basic land.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Oh, so the cards are semi-confirmed now? That's cool, but we're at least a few weeks off from spoiler season. It's a shame they came out so early, Maro and co. must be annoyed. But considering Commander is the last product of the year, we might as well speculate how these cards will work in the larger scheme of the block.

How will this even function in EDH and draft? They're going to need Wastes to show up in nearly every pack if they want this mechanic to be worth something in limited. And I don't see them doing something like supplying LGS's with Wastes, even if the card calls itself a basic land.

If it's anything like Snow-Covered lands in Coldsnap, then you have to draft them normally. However, it's possible that like other basic lands, there will be multiple printings with different art, so the same card will actually appear in four or five different common slots.

As for EDH, the expectation is that any number of Wastes will be allowed in a deck, like any other basic land, except you can put it in any deck, including one with no color identity.

 

[SigmasonicX]

The Battle for Zendikar update to Magic Duels is finally out, after six weeks.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If it's anything like Snow-Covered lands in Coldsnap, then you have to draft them normally. However, it's possible that like other basic lands, there will be multiple printings with different art, so the same card will actually appear in four or five different common slots.

As for EDH, the expectation is that any number of Wastes will be allowed in a deck, like any other basic land, except you can put it in any deck, including one with no color identity.

Even if it works like Snow Mana, you should still be able to use Wastes in colorless EDH decks since ♦ is almost assuredly colorless regardless of how it ends up working.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Unless that creature is Laboratory Maniac.

I was playing cube and made a sweet Oath/Storm deck with the only creatures being Emrakul, Dragonlord Atarka and Sundering Titan.

I drew two of the creatures and Emrakul was the bottom card :-(

If it was either of the other two I could have discarded Emrakul with a spell and still won lol

 

[Yeef]

The Battle for Zendikar update to Magic Duels is finally out, after six weeks.

8 Weeks, actually. It was originally scheduled to come out before the BFZ prerelease.

Hopefully they've gotten their act together enough so that Oath hits on time.

 

[OnPoint]

Even if it works like Snow Mana, you should still be able to use Wastes in colorless EDH decks since ♦ is almost assuredly colorless regardless of how it ends up working.

Since you made fun of my pasties the other day <> maybe you can tell me how to make a diamond with my keyboard.

 

[Ashodin]

The Battle for Zendikar update to Magic Duels is finally out, after six weeks.

Yesssss!!!!!

 

[Son1x]

Played standard at LGS today and went 3-0-1 with Noyan Ascendancy. ID'd the last match but we still played and I won 2-0. Got a Roast promo and 5 boosters but they were pretty bad. Smoldering Marsh and bulk rares.

Playing modern FNM tomorrow then Standard PPTQ on Saturday. Should be fun.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Since you made fun of my pasties the other day <> maybe you can tell me how to make a diamond with my keyboard.

ALT-F4

 

[Joe Molotov]

Since you made fun of my pasties the other day <> maybe you can tell me how to make a diamond with my keyboard.

Hold Alt, Press 4 on the Number Pad, Release Alt

 

[WanderingWind]

Hold Alt, Press 4 on the Number Pad, Release Alt

&#9618;

LIES

 

[OnPoint]

ALT-F4

 

[Firemind]

oh hell yes

 

["God's Beard!"]

oh hell yes

I have the same reaction when I see Vendilion Clique in the opening pack.

 

[WanderingWind]

Snap pick Maul.

 

[Socat]

I am playing in my first SCG Open in Kansas City this weekend. Going in blind with Atarka Red, so who knows how that will go. I am pretty excited

 

[WanderingWind]

I am playing in my first SCG Open in Kansas City this weekend. Going in blind with Atarka Red, so who knows how that will go. I am pretty excited

I expect you to top 4.

 

[blindrocket]

I feel like they'll be the group to crack the "how" of the eldrazi and they'll use Emrakul to go from plane to plane somehow.

I feel like we've seen Emrakul in the background of some images lately. That judge foil leak of Port for one, and I think a background image of Innistrad 2.