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[Angry Grimace]

I wouldn't get Kiora immediately for $20. I think she's incredibly overrated. In creature-heavy decks, you'd rather have CoCo. In ramp decks, the impulse is going to wiff xx% of the time. Rather have Sarkhan Unbroken 9 out of 10 times.

I picked her up at $15. I think Kiora and Ob Nixilis are locks to trend downwards towards $10 in my opinion, but its not that huge of a loss and I love brewing with Planeswalkers. The biggest problem with Kiora is that whatever deck is using her pretty much also wants Jace to get value out of the yard, and a playset of Jaces is $170.

The lack of Satyr Wayfinder-like cards really hurts Sultai/Delve fueled decks a lot. The only way you're really fueling Delve is Jace and Kiora's minus, which is not exactly fast.

The Theros gods, much like Theros itself, were completely worthless.

Theros seems better than Battle for Zendikar, tbh

 

[hort]

Went ahead and preordered a box for a slightly discounted price from also preregistering for the pre-release.


With that and the 2 fat packs I have coming, I think I am set on the sealed product I'll buy from this set. Everything else will likely come from drafts.

 

[Angry Grimace]

After seeing that spoiler, I'm good on boxes, yeah. There's almost literally no reason to buy any sealed product unless you want to play the Expedition lottery because most of the cards are probably worthless.

 

[HK-47]

The Theros gods, much like Theros itself, were completely worthless.

The art was beautiful though.

 

[Firemind]

Theros had Thoughtseize at rare. BFZ has fetches at ultra mythic.

 

[duxstar]

My desire for this set Is so low, tough to explain but even the $100 bill lottery isnt enough. Zendikar was supposed to be amazing and feels like the worst set I've seen since starting

 

[darkside31337]

So many blowout cards in limited in this set.

Think my favorite interaction is Swell of Growth dropping a Looming Spires into play.

 

[Giant Panda]

I think allies are short a few cards to be good enough to be a Tier 1.5 deck, but it's close. First strike guy and Drana are good, lifelink, vigilance, blood artist lite, life drain, and menace guys are decent.

Abzan still looks like the strongest deck to me, though Temur also got some new toys.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Theros had Thoughtseize at rare. BFZ has fetches at ultra mythic.

I mean, value aside, there were a lot of cards that were actually pretty cool and had neat design in Theros, which I can't say for BFZ.

 

[WanderingWind]

Well, I mean, BFZ is looking like Homelands 2.0 but with lands, so that's not a fair comparison. Magic is starting to work on Star Trek movie rules.

 

[kirblar]

My desire for this set Is so low, tough to explain but even the $100 bill lottery isnt enough. Zendikar was supposed to be amazing and feels like the worst set I've seen since starting

It's the worst set they've released in a very, very, very long time.

Like, a REALLY long time.

If Theros block were just sets 1 and 3 we'd be so much happier with it. They're both good sets.

 

[Jhriad]

Well, I mean, BFZ is looking like Homelands 2.0 but with lands, so that's not a fair comparison. Magic is starting to work on Star Trek movie rules.

Whoa, pump the brakes a little. I'm doubtful as to how large the and impact BFZ will have on Standard but the set is leagues better than Homelands.

 

[Socat]

Whoa, pump the brakes a little. I'm doubtful as to how large the and impact BFZ will have on Standard but the set is leagues better than Homelands.

True, but this set does feel a lot like Alara to me, as in only a few cards that stand out and very average otherwise.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It's the worst set they've released in a very, very, very long time.

Like, a REALLY long time.

If Theros block were just sets 1 and 3 we'd be so much happier with it. They're both good sets.

If we ignore core sets, this is the worst since AVR.

It feels like it will end up being better than AVR, but not by much.

 

[kirblar]

If we ignore core sets, this is the worst since AVR.

It feels like it will end up being better than AVR, but not by much.

The thing is, I think AVR nailed big-picture things while I think BFZ fails horribly on them.

Yeah, AVR limted play was crap - but Miracles, Angels - those things were awesome and exciting.

 

[The Technomancer]

Man I'm not that negative about it. I just think its underwhelming.

 

[kirblar]

Man I'm not that negative about it. I just think its underwhelming.

MaRo's year in review:

Problem #1: We failed to meet player expectations re: The Eldrazi.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The thing is, I think AVR nailed big-picture things while I think BFZ fails horribly on them.

Yeah, AVR limted play was crap - but Miracles, Angels - those things were awesome and exciting.

That's a fair assessment. That being said, Miracles were cool, but created ridiculous feel-bads, and really weren't good for the game (IMO).

The mythics in AVR were really cool though.

 

[aidan]

Whoa, pump the brakes a little. I'm doubtful as to how large the and impact BFZ will have on Standard but the set is leagues better than Homelands.

Out of curiousity, when's the last time a big fall set hasn't had a major impact on Standard? Like, I doubt we see a few months of Standard that's basically Khans Block and Origins. Isn't it inevitable, no matter how janky and low-powered a set is, that it will reshape modern when the previous set rotates out?

 

[The Technomancer]

That's a fair assessment. That being said, Miracles were cool, but created ridiculous feel-bads, and really weren't good for the game (IMO).

The mythics in AVR were really cool though.

I like Miracles exclusively because for the first few months after AVR the splash they had on the competitive scene felt actually exciting. Yeah they became obnoxious, but there was a cool energy around the first Miracle decks doing well

 

[Simply Sarah]

Well, I mean, BFZ is looking like Homelands 2.0 but with lands, so that's not a fair comparison. Magic is starting to work on Star Trek movie rules.

Let's no go overboard. Take a deep breath, go and refresh yourself on the actual Homelands card list, and remind yourself that things could be far far far worse than what's coming out of BFZ.

 

[kirblar]

That's a fair assessment. That being said, Miracles were cool, but created ridiculous feel-bads, and really weren't good for the game (IMO).

The mythics in AVR were really cool though.

I kinda agree? I think it's actually fine if Bonfire doesn't get printed as is. They were super splashy and not that bad (outside of Legacy.)

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I like Miracles exclusively because for the first few months after AVR the splash they had on the competitive scene felt actually exciting. Yeah they became obnoxious, but there was a cool energy around the first Miracle decks doing well

Hayne's PT deck was sweet to watch, that's for sure.

Basically I'm talking about Bonfire of the Damned.

 

[Socat]

Quick rules question: If I targeted Zada with both modes of a Dromoka's Command, does the copy effect still happen?

edit: as in my mode choices would be +1/+1 and fight another creature

 

[SigmasonicX]

Quick rules question: If I targeted Zada with both modes of a Dromoka's Command, does the copy effect still happen?

edit: as in my mode choices would be +1/+1 and fight another creature

No, the fight mode has two targets, so Zada's ability wouldn't trigger.

 

[Firemind]

True, but this set does feel a lot like Alara to me, as in only a few cards that stand out and very average otherwise.

Alara had Elspeth. And Ajani Vengeant. And Cruel Ultimatum. And Broodmate Dragon. And Wild Nacatl. And Oblivion Ring. And Ad Nauseum. And Bant Charm. And Esper Charm. And Blightning.

That's already 8 more than BFZ.

 

[A Serious Man]

I'm genuinely excited about the new duals, I can't wait to experiment with them. Kiora and Drana are also cards I'm excited about brewing with and will be overpaying for as soon as they're released. Beyond that though, I'm just crossing my fingers that it's a good draft format. Good drafting with a lottery on the side is enough to keep me occupied if Standard really stagnates, which it won't given how many staples are rotating out (unless Oath is just as limp).

 

[Socat]

No, the fight mode has two targets, so Zada's ability wouldn't trigger.

But the spell is still only targeting Zada, which is the only clause listed for the copy effect

 

[ultron87]

But the spell is still only targeting Zada, which is the only clause listed for the copy effect

It is targeting Zada and the opponent's creature that he is fighting.

 

[Socat]

It is targeting Zada and the opponent's creature that he is fighting.

ah, that's true I suppose. Oh well, the brewing continues

 

["God's Beard!"]

I think he means limited? Because Bonesplinters and Thallids are terrible in constructed.

Oh ye of little faith.

 

[y2dvd]

Play a real man's format like drafting. B-(

Set looks fine for limit play. Every color got bears, landfall shenanigans, scions, ally...actually the colors are blurred more now than in recent sets imo.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I wouldn't get Kiora immediately for $20. I think she's incredibly overrated. In creature-heavy decks, you'd rather have CoCo. In ramp decks, the impulse is going to wiff xx% of the time. Rather have Sarkhan Unbroken 9 out of 10 times.

I play MtGO (I know I know), so preordering isn't a deal. It's possible her price will drop by then; but the Power Rangerswalkers are all still around $16 on that client.

(I play mtgo because I have no one to play in meatspace and i've already invested money in it)

 

[ultron87]

Definitely interested in drafting a good bit. This probably won't get me back into Standard, but that's fine. Unless Temur turns out to be good. Then I'll have to sleeve up some Knuckleblades again, because I love that card.

 

[Firemind]

I play MtGO (I know I know), so preordering isn't a deal. It's possible her price will drop by then; but the Power Rangerswalkers are all still around $16 on that client.

(I play mtgo because I have no one to play in meatspace and i've already invested money in it)

She'll spike in the first week, then drop on MTGO like all walkers.

 

[WanderingWind]

Let's no go overboard. Take a deep breath, go and refresh yourself on the actual Homelands card list, and remind yourself that things could be far far far worse than what's coming out of BFZ.

You're right. Homelands had Sengirs and they were badass at the time. BFZ has basic lands.

 

[Draxal]

You're right. Homelands had Sengirs and they were badass at the time. BFZ has basic lands.

We need the return of cumulative upkeep.

 

[Ashodin]

So why do the mythic rares have the foily bit at the bottom again? for easy identification if you're colorblind?

 

[SigmasonicX]

You're right. Homelands had Sengirs and they were badass at the time. BFZ has basic lands.

?

So why do the mythic rares have the foily bit at the bottom again? for easy identification if you're colorblind?

It's to make counterfeiting more difficult.

 

[Draxal]

?



It's to make counterfeiting more difficult.

Baron Sengir, a big problem with Zendikar is that it's coming after Tarkir.

 

[A Serious Man]

I play MtGO (I know I know), so preordering isn't a deal. It's possible her price will drop by then; but the Power Rangerswalkers are all still around $16 on that client.

(I play mtgo because I have no one to play in meatspace and i've already invested money in it)

Jace is $36 on MTGO right now. The only other flipwalker above $7 is Nissa at about $13. I felt gross for buying my playset of Jace's when they were $23, not so much anymore. I really have no idea where these new PW's will land but I'm going to wait and see on Gideon and Ob because I'm not really interested in brewing with them.

 

[Toxi]

Let's be honest, the only badass Black Legend in Homelands was this guy.

 

[Socat]

Jace is $36 on MTGO right now. The only other flipwalker above $7 is Nissa at about $13. I felt gross for buying my playset of Jace's when they were $23, not so much anymore. I really have no idea where these new PW's will land but I'm going to wait and see on Gideon and Ob because I'm not really interested in brewing with them.

in paper, jace is currently at 44 and I bet he settles at around 50 during this standard season

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

So much negativity. Invoking Homelands? Worse than AVR? Somehow rose tinting Theros? Wow.

The only really anemic thing I'm seeing in this set is converge. Because that seems like a really odd mechanic to have without mana fixing running around. Eldrazi disappointment? There are big ones that do wonky things, and small ones that ramp into big ones. Bonus processor stuff so we don't have to deal with boring drones all the time. I've been hoping for things to shove into Tron and MUD and I've got those in spades. Allies got some 1 and 2 drops and a rainbow land. I expected Awaken to be about as disappointing as bestow, but that wound up getting basically all the cards it could want.

The only thing I was truly concerned about is limited going into the full reveal. Now even though they said they didn't want to do battlecruiser magic, I'm seeing a lean towards battlecruiser magic. It's obviously not the same, but we have invokers, ramp options, and scions and scion interactions. The threats at the high end aren't as potent as in Rise, but big threats are still there.

Red in constructed RIP

 

[Simply Sarah]

Let's be honest, the only badass Black Legend in Homelands was this guy.

Well yeah, that's not really up for debate. Ihsan's Shade was so badass he was able to get his art onto two different cards.

 

[kirblar]

MiniJace is seeing Modern/Legacy play.

 

[A Serious Man]

in paper, jace is currently at 44 and I bet he settles at around 50 during this standard season

If Kiora ends up being tier 1, he could get really crazy.

 

[hort]

When do we usually get the contents of the intro packs and event decks?

 

[Lucario]

That's a strong replacement for Tukatongue Thallid in Modern Aristocrats. The replacement 1/1 even sacrifices itself, although you can't use that mana for Return to the Ranks if you've already convoked it.


It's also good to see a slightly worse Blood Artist. Very likely worth running as copies 5-6.

Very few good 4/X creatures in this set at common. 1/4s seem like they'd overperform in limited, even at 3 mana. A two mana 1/4 with relevant upside looks nuts.

Very pushed. I love cards like this.

Normally sacrifice engines only see play in constructed if there's no activation cost, but I think this might be strong enough to be an exception. Especially with Evolutionary Leap in the same environment.

Definitely an improvement on Culling Dais, Carnage Altar, Phyrexian Vault, etc.

WoTC is really in love with their Ghirapur Gearcrafter / Sandsteppe Outcast effects.

This is stronger than either of those cards. Blue looks absurd in draft.

Definitely not a high pick, especially considering the two premium 1/4s at common, but it looks like a role player in the Molten Nursery archtype. So much pinging.

Odd to see only one Invoker in the set, but I like it. Strong enough to close out games, but not as overwhelming as nonsense like Dawnglare Invoker.

 

[darkside31337]

Baron Sengir, a big problem with Zendikar is that it's coming after Tarkir.

Thats not really a problem when it comes to limited.