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[The Technomancer]

On a separate issue why do dwarves barely exist in any of the planes, are they just Dominaria exclusive?

There was apparently a major anti-Dwarf faction inside Wizards for a long time. Rosewater has been hinting the landscape is better for them to return now, but he's also been saying that for like four years so...

 

[Joe Molotov]

There was apparently a major anti-Dwarf faction inside Wizards for a long time. Rosewater has been hinting the landscape is better for them to return now, but he's also been saying that for like four years so...

Wow, I see The Witcher was right, anti-Dwarf bigotry is everywhere.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

There was apparently a major anti-Dwarf faction inside Wizards for a long time. Rosewater has been hinting the landscape is better for them to return now, but he's also been saying that for like four years so...

Why would you hate on little sturdy long bearded humans that are technologically more advanced than most other fantasy races?

I'd also not have anything against a plane where people moved onto muskets from bow and arrow for a change of pace for once.

Could have a seafarer subtheme.

 

[Yeef]

You don't have to have it just be a clone. We've had clones with narrative before. Make it a shapeshifter then, not the changelings. You'd only need to dedicate 1 ability that's just clone to him and his ultimate could be "for every permanent in play put a copy of it into play under your control". Flavourful you win the game effect.

Also this would mean we'd

I misunderstood what you meant. When you said Clone planeswalker, I thought you means a clone for planeswalkers, not a planeswalker with clone-based abilities.

I really wish we'd gotten a manifest tutor. Something like:

Manifest Tutor 1GU
Sorcery
Search your library for a card and manifest it, then shuffle your library.

I don't see manifest coming back anytime soon, so it seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[The Technomancer]

Why would you hate on little sturdy long bearded humans that are technologically more advanced than most other fantasy races?

I'd also not have anything against a plane where people moved onto muskets from bow and arrow for a change of pace for once.

Could have a seafarer subtheme.

This, on the other hand, they've basically said they'll never do. They experimented with it for an intro set waaaay back in the day and AFAIK its regarded as a mistake still. Rosewater has also said that Fiora and Kaladesh are about as "high-tech" as we're going to get in terms of being more steampunky and wow the game really does need more voices than just one guy

 

[Angry Grimace]

Now with 60 cards! Not that, I expect anyone to know what any of these cards do yet.

Deck: Esper Eldrazi

//Creatures
4 Fathom Feeder
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Ulamog's Nullifier
4 Blight Herder
1 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

//Spells
4 Titan's Presence
2 Silkwrap
2 Suspension Field
3 Stasis Snare
2 Utter End
1 Quarantine Field
2 Dig Through Time
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//Land
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Sunken Hollow
3 Prairie Stream
2 Shambling Vent

//Sideboard
2 Ultimate Price
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
3 Revoke Existence
1 Silkwrap
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Duress
2 Negate

Display deck statistics

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Dammit, who keeps slicing onions?

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31583_Power-And-Toughness.html

 

[kirblar]

Tons of people internally keep thinking this needs to be a kids-marketed game even though the player age is like what, 30 now?

All Ages and Kid Friendly are not the same thing.

 

[The Technomancer]

Tons of people internally keep thinking this needs to be a kids-marketed game even though the player age is like what, 30 now?

All Ages and Kid Friendly are not the same thing.

I don't actually think that its a "kid friendly" thing I think they just really don't like the aesthetic of muskets

 

[Angry Grimace]

I misunderstood what you meant. When you said Clone planeswalker, I thought you means a clone for planeswalkers, not a planeswalker with clone-based abilities.

I really wish we'd gotten a manifest tutor. Something like:

Manifest Tutor 1GU
Sorcery
Search your library for a card and manifest it, then shuffle your library.

I don't see manifest coming back anytime soon, so it seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[kirblar]

I don't actually think that its a "kid friendly" thing I think they just really don't like the aesthetic of muskets

Wait, are we talking about guns or dwarves.

I totally get why guns are frowned upon with the worldwide sales thing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There aren't any Dwarves because they have to be red, but they kind of aren't red.

 

[The Technomancer]

Wait, are we talking about guns or dwarves.

I totally get why guns are frowned upon with the worldwide sales thing.

That also makes sense

There aren't any Dwarves because they have to be red, but they kind of aren't red.

Rosewater has also said (sigh) that its been long enough Dwarves don't have to be red. There was a big discussion on his blog about it and I think the consensus shook out that they make the most sense as W/r

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I misunderstood what you meant. When you said Clone planeswalker, I thought you means a clone for planeswalkers, not a planeswalker with clone-based abilities.

I really wish we'd gotten a manifest tutor. Something like:

Manifest Tutor 1GU
Sorcery
Search your library for a card and manifest it, then shuffle your library.

I don't see manifest coming back anytime soon, so it seems like a missed opportunity.

Ah yeah that would have been boring. I just like the idea of a PW that shifted forms and identities so much he actually forgot his true identity.

That would probably be too strong putting it down face down instead would have been possible though.

This, on the other hand, they've basically said they'll never do. They experimented with it for an intro set waaaay back in the day and AFAIK its regarded as a mistake still. Rosewater has also said that Fiora and Kaladesh are about as "high-tech" as we're going to get in terms of being more steampunky and wow the game really does need more voices than just one guy

Bummer, Magic has evolved a lot imo and gained a bigger and younger audience they don't have to carry those old burdens with them anymore. Maybe I just played so long I'd like for something to shake up the formula

On the other hand the company seems a little frail from time to time completely unwilling to take a risk and after any failure never to try again instead of looking for what went wrong

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Wait, are we talking about guns or dwarves.

I totally get why guns are frowned upon with the worldwide sales thing.

Gun aversion outside of the U.S. is a real thing, but the real issue is the slippery slope towards technology over, well, Magic.

On the other hand the company seems a little frail from time to time completely unwilling to take a risk and after any failure never to try again instead of looking for what went wrong

Right now they're in a pattern where they take one "risk" every year - the "bonus" fifth set each year. MM2015 was a little safe, but Conspiracy and the original Modern Masters were legitimate risks.

 

[Hackworth]

I always felt the issue wasn't guns specifically so much as the industrialization of warfare and the related dehumanization of individuals vs the romantic heroic archetypes of classic fantasy. But yeah, gun aversion is totally a cultural thing.
Also, personally, twisty magical artifact stuff looks cooler than mass production and guns as a tech aesthetic.

There aren't any Dwarves because they have to be red, but they kind of aren't red.

Red has been getting a major artifact push for a while now as one of the acceptable colour bleeds, high tech Dwarves sounds hype.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Gun aversion outside of the U.S. is a real thing, but the real issue is the slippery slope towards technology over, well, Magic.

Is it? We do not particularly like gun ownership but I don't think we have much issue with gun depiction. Violence and gore on the other hand is rated much harsher in general over here in europe in exchange we are more okay with sexuality but where I live MTG is technically 13+.

 

[The Technomancer]

Right now they're in a pattern where they take one "risk" every year - the "bonus" fifth set each year. MM2015 was a little safe, but Conspiracy and the original Modern Masters were legitimate risks.

I'm hoping the two block shift will help them get a bit riskier as well

 

["God's Beard!"]

Is this set made by the same team that did MM2? Both have a lot in common with Rise, but still. Multicolor ramp strats make me feel like I'm back in MM2.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179571709]Is this set made by the same team that did MM2? Both have a lot in common with Rise, but still. Multicolor ramp strats make me feel like I'm back in MM2.[/QUOTE]
They're trying to copy the MM1 draft style with other sets. Dunno if MM2 was Laurer, but I don't think it works well in a set with a lot going on already.

 

[The Technomancer]

They're trying to copy the MM1 draft style with other sets. Dunno if MM2 was Laurer, but I don't think it works well in a set with a lot going on already.

In theory I like the ten archtype thing quite a bit, and even the uncommon "hint" cycle, but I don't want that to be every set. Variety is good, and I don't want every set to either be factions or engineered two-color pairs

 

[duxstar]

Had a draft game earlier where I got my opponent to 5 and he was able to gain life back to 20 before game 1 ended. It was quite boring actually.

So far in 2 drafts I've had a really good ally deck that basically got destroyed (2 double strike guys, munda the look at top 4 guy, 2 of the token makers , the white red rare Angel, and 2 of the ally rare mana dorks)

And a minor lifegain subtheme deck that would've went to time in game 1 because of the board stall.

So far I'm not overly impressed. There are just so Many things clogging up the board. Mainly eldrazi scion.

Also awaken seems way overpowered, and nothing ever seems to hit the graveyard , I was able to land the Emeria Angel once and had nothing to bring back cause all the kill spells on this set seem to exile rather than kill.

 

[OnPoint]

Man, I would hate if they did guns in Magic. I hated them doing mechs in Invasion, despite the fact that there were giant automated machines and practical robots already (though those are ok because they aren't "computers"). Mechs just felt like they went too far.

 

[Ashodin]

I don't mind mechs or guns. As long as it's based on magic, who cares?

 

[Violet_0]

Also, personally, twisty magical artifact stuff looks cooler than mass production and guns as a tech aesthetic.

well, you can have twisty magical artifact stuff and gunlines
but then you basically have Warhammer

I find early modern period warfare far more interesting than yet more boring elvish archers

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Man, I would hate if they did guns in Magic. I hated them doing mechs in Invasion, despite the fact that there were giant automated machines and practical robots already (though those are ok because they aren't "computers"). Mechs just felt like they went too far.

not gun guns, earliest renaissance guns. Guns where they still used swords in conjunction because they were inaccurate as fuck.

Also how is Karn not a computer?

 

[Hackworth]

well, you can have twisty magical artifact stuff and gunlines
but then you basically have Warhammer

Yeah that's actually a good point. I do like 40K..

 

[OnPoint]

I don't mind mechs or guns. As long as it's based on magic, who cares?

Not that my opinion is the end-all or anything, but I guess I care. It just feels tonally incorrect. I get that somewhere in the multiverse, somehow, someone probably made a gun, at some point, on some plane. But I just don't think it fits into the fantasy-style worlds they usually build. People ask for sets based around Fairytale World or Dinosaurs because the game's story is fantastical and fun, they don't ask for GTA: Dominaria. I certainly don't want to equip Jace with a Flak Jacket or Tezzeret with an Uzi. Even if they went back and did it Revolutionary War style... man, I'd probably just sit that set out. It wasn't fun to learn about in school, I don't really enjoy media from that era and I don't really need to see George Washington's Magic equivalent.

This post reads harsher than I meant it to come across, so no offense. I don't want to change what I'm saying, I just want you to know that it looks angrier than it is haha

not gun guns, earliest renaissance guns. Guns where they still used swords in conjunction because they were inaccurate as fuck.

Also how is Karn not a computer?

Being magically animated is different to me than circuits and silicon. He's a Golem, not a "robot".

 

[jph139]

Fiora (and kinda-sorta Ravnica) are already Renaissance-era and have gunpowder and the like. I don't think muskets are any more modern and out of place than the Goblin Kaboomist and his mines, for example. Or Jace craving coffee in one of the more recent stories for that matter.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Not that my opinion is the end-all or anything, but I guess I care. It just feels tonally incorrect. I get that somewhere in the multiverse, somehow, someone probably made a gun, at some point, on some plane. But I just don't think it fits into the fantasy-style worlds they usually build. People ask for sets based around Fairytale World or Dinosaurs because the game's story is fantastical and fun, they don't ask for GTA: Dominaria. I certainly don't want to equip Jace with a Flak Jacket or Tezzeret with an Uzi. Even if they went back and did it Revolutionary War style... man, I'd probably just sit that set out. It wasn't fun to learn about in school, I don't really enjoy media from that era and I don't really need to see George Washington's Magic equivalent.

This post reads harsher than I meant it to come across, so no offense. I don't want to change what I'm saying, I just want you to know that it looks angrier than it is haha



Being magically animated is different to me than circuits and silicon. He's a Golem, not a "robot".

How could you not love WoTC's take on this?

guns didn't replace swords and crossbows in a day, they coexisted for centuries.

And Karn isn't just a golem he's sentient and self aware, he's capable of speech and independent of his creator. He's basically AI. Also wasn't he formed of the mirari in a quasi liquid state, the mirari itself was animate already

Fiora (and kinda-sorta Ravnica) are already Renaissance-era and have gunpowder and the like. I don't think muskets are any more modern and out of place than the Goblin Kaboomist and his mines, for example. Or Jace craving coffee in one of the more recent stories for that matter.

good point. Only issue I really see is that it'd be difficult to go back

 

[OnPoint]

How could you not love WoTC's take on this?

guns didn't replace swords and crossbows in a day, they coexisted for centuries.

And Karn isn't just a golem he's sentient and self aware, he's capable of speech and independent of his creator. He's basically AI. Also wasn't he formed of the mirari in a quasi liquid state, the mirari itself was animate already

I wouldn't want them to replace swords and crossbows in Magic ever, much less slowly over a bunch of sets. I feel like guns are something you really can't put back in the bottle once you do them, I feel like they would change the tone of the game, and personally, I wouldn't like that. At that point maybe the game wouldn't be for me. All I can think is, flavorfully, something like Brimaz is charging at Merfolk of the Pearl Trident, and the merfolk shoots Brimaz with a rifle, killing him. Just kinda kills the whole warrior/combat/battle feeling right there.

I'm not saying Karn isn't more than a simple golem, but he is a golem and golem's are steeped heavily in magic and mythology, long before robots and computers. But I'm not going to argue the semantics of it any further because it doesn't really matter.

As for the point about mines, I don't like them being in this game. But they exist so I can't really fight that.

 

[Ashodin]

There's tons of ways to do guns magically and without the context you're implying would happen with them.

Creatures with guns could only be allowed to shoot as a "ping" effect like already has been done in the game. You could even have ammo counters that would allow you to shoot a high powered shot or something.

There's a lot of design space there.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just throwing this out there but I'm willing to trade 4 Flooded Strand for 4 Polluted Delta. And I'll throw in a Hangarback Walker to even it out!

There's tons of ways to do guns magically and without the context you're implying would happen with them.

Creatures with guns could only be allowed to shoot as a "ping" effect like already has been done in the game. You could even have ammo counters that would allow you to shoot a high powered shot or something.

There's a lot of design space there.

All of the design space in guns exists in bows already.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wouldn't want them to replace swords and crossbows in Magic ever, much less slowly over a bunch of sets. I feel like guns are something you really can't put back in the bottle once you do them, I feel like they would change the tone of the game, and personally, I wouldn't like that. At that point maybe the game wouldn't be for me. All I can think is, flavorfully, something like Brimaz is charging at Merfolk of the Pearl Trident, and the merfolk shoots Brimaz with a rifle, killing him. Just kinda kills the whole warrior/combat/battle feeling right there.

But Brimaz is already running at a Merfolk equipped with a spear in it's natural habitat a situation where he is completely outmatched. Flavour never made much sense. Why and how would an elemental fight a merfolk in Lorwyn?

I get that it might be hard to get back to just swords and bows but at the same time I feel the art direction being rather stale.

It's just like more swords and more archers and as much as they want to dress it up with new ludicrous designs for them ultimately it's just swords.

Innistrad was rather post renaissance too.

I used to own a number of Portal Second Age cards, I thought they were pretty badass

man I love these, if I ever start a collection based on something it might just be guns in MTG

 

[Violet_0]

I used to own a number of Portal Second Age cards, I thought they were pretty badass

 

[OnPoint]

All of the design space in guns exists in bows already.

Bingo.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Personally, I'd like pirate world to have those old pistols that can only be used once, but otherwise, magic flame blasts are preferable.

 

[Firemind]

Goblin Sharpshooter has the WORST art.

#teamnoguns

 

[Yeef]

Seems fine.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I wouldn't want them to replace swords and crossbows in Magic ever, much less slowly over a bunch of sets. I feel like guns are something you really can't put back in the bottle once you do them, I feel like they would change the tone of the game, and personally, I wouldn't like that. At that point maybe the game wouldn't be for me. All I can think is, flavorfully, something like Brimaz is charging at Merfolk of the Pearl Trident, and the merfolk shoots Brimaz with a rifle, killing him. Just kinda kills the whole warrior/combat/battle feeling right there.

Technically, early crossbows were just as strong as guns and shot faster (meaning they were superior to bows in every way). So your argument sort of annihilates crossbows, too.

Anyways, just ran up against my first enemy U/R thopter deck on MTGO. Holy fuck that got out of hand quick.

 

[OnPoint]

Technically, early crossbows were just as strong as guns and shot faster (meaning they were superior to bows in every way). So your argument sort of annihilates crossbows, too.

... is my reading comprehension in question here? How condescending... lol anyway...

Maybe early crossbows in reality did that, but Magic the Gathering crossbows (and bows in general) as they've been printed fit into the universe without nullifying the use for any other weaponry.

 

[SigmasonicX]

+

+

Could this actually work? Anafenza putting the card you process back into exile?

 

[JulianImp]

Or Jace craving coffee in one of the more recent stories for that matter.

What. Just what.

Edit: @SigmasonicX: Yeah, I think that'd work fine. Exile any card your opponent owns and you can repeatedly drain them for 1 with each green mana you've got, after an initial investment of 1G for the first activation.

 

[Newt]

Technically, early crossbows were just as strong as guns and shot faster (meaning they were superior to bows in every way). So your argument sort of annihilates crossbows, too.

Anyways, just ran up against my first enemy U/R thopter deck on MTGO. Holy fuck that got out of hand quick.

Hmm, Thopter decks are still viable with the loss of ensoul and darksteel?

 

[OnPoint]

+

+

Could this actually work? Anafenza putting the card you process back into exile?

This seems like an interaction that works.

 

[SigmasonicX]

What. Just what.

Ravnica has cafes.

 

[jph139]

What. Just what.

He turned to leave.

"Guildpact," said Lavinia. He turned. "Get some rest."

"Coffee," said Jace. "The Living Guildpact rules that coffee is an acceptable substitution for rest, as specified in subsection . . . whatever."

...I can't really recommend ever reading Uncharted Realms.

Spoiler

I mean, coffee existed in the Muslim world in the ~1400s, so it's not like it's TOO much of a stretch, but, come on, really?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Hmm, Thopter decks are still viable with the loss of ensoul and darksteel?

Origin introduced like 20 new cards for a thopter deck. I was playtesting BUG zombies too, so the guy flooded the board with about 8 thopters by turn 4.

 

[A Serious Man]

+

+

Could this actually work? Anafenza putting the card you process back into exile?

It works, although I don't think paying 1G and needing 3 cards to drain your opponent for 1 to be that big of a deal.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It works, although I don't think paying 1G and needing 3 cards to drain your opponent for 1 to be that big of a deal.

It's just G; the scion makes the 1.