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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Khans was opened a ton. Ghostfire Blades are sure to go up a bit, but not a huge amount. Excluding the fetches, Dig and Siege Rhino are the most expensive rares in the set and they're both under 6 bucks.

So should I get digs now or wait till they rotate. They are banned in modern so I'm hopeful they'll lose in value.

 

[kirblar]

So should I get digs now or wait till they rotate. They are banned in modern so I'm hopeful they'll lose in value.

Right after rotation. Probably get banned in Legacy too, but until then....

 

[SigmasonicX]

snagged four ghostfire blades. These things are gonna grow in price, I bet you.

I like how Gideon is all "I pledge allegiance to white mana for which it stands, one Zendikar, under Eldrazi"

For the Oath psuedo-OP, my plan is to edit the team pose pictures to include MMPR morphers, Planeteer rings, Lantern rings, Vongola rings, Elements of Harmony, etc.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Right after rotation. Probably get banned in Legacy too, but until then....

Thanks.


I miss the days when WoTC handed out great mythics as promo cards for prereleases. For some reason they went back to rares which was often pretty disappointing until they started randomizing it again which was better. The only Wurmcoil engines I'm using me and my friends got from Scars pre.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The real question about Oath of the Gatewatch is WHO IS THE FIFTH MAN

Whose side is he on?!

 

[OnPoint]

Right after rotation. Probably get banned in Legacy too, but until then....

I honestly can't believe it's not banned in Legacy yet. It's too good.

The real question about Oath of the Gatewatch is WHO IS THE FIFTH MAN

Whose side is he on?!

I'm gonna guess Sorin or Lili. More than likely won't be Ob.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just read an article on how Sphinx's Tutelage decks aren't losing that much! Hint: don't play a fucking Sphinx's Tutelage deck unless you like losing.

 

[Ashodin]

It's Ugin. huehuehue

 

[Angry Grimace]

Today is http://www.worldrhinoday.org/

Sleeve up your Siege Rhinos, its not like it sees play on any other day =V

 

[Violet_0]

I'm gonna guess Sorin or Lili. More than likely won't be Ob.

W/B Liliana Redeemed

 

[OnPoint]

W/B Liliana Redeemed

Please no we don't need another B/W 'walker. I feel like she might buckle under the weight of the Veil or whatever and come back to Jace to say "Hey, I actually do need your help, so let's make a trade." Somehow, Ugin and Jace disagreeing makes me think Sorin is going to take a walk.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Remember when Reaper of the Wilds seemed pretty good and then never saw play

 

[kirblar]

It saw occasional play until Rhino was printed.

 

[A Serious Man]

I just read an article on how Sphinx's Tutelage decks aren't losing that much! Hint: don't play a fucking Sphinx's Tutelage deck unless you like losing.

I lost a league match to one yesterday that was running black for sweepers, hand destruction and Waste Not. It was one hell of a slow, clunky deck and I felt great shame.

 

[Infinite Stars]

In the two pre releases I've gone to where I knew what I was doing, I never went in the colors I got. DTK I went Ojutai after getting a Dromoka Pack. Origins I went White, went UR Beats with Hangarback, Goblin Piledriver, Foil Shivan Reef, Exquisite Firecraft, Whelming Wave, and an Embermaw Helion. Went 0-5 at that PR though because I was tired/bad Beats.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It saw occasional play until Rhino was printed.

Pretty much nobody played it because Polukranos was just better and you didn't have to go Jund for it

List of other cards that I thought would be better

Lots of these saw occasional play, but they still weren't exactly staples.

 

[Crocodile]

Ajani probably saw less play than it should have - underrated card. Keranos sees some play in Modern which is more than I can say for most of the Gods - especially the multicolored ones. Kiora is good in Cube. Prophet is kind of degenerate in EDH I hear. I never expected much from the others so them seeing not a shit-ton of play doesn't phaze me.

 

[f0rk]

Interesting that Keranos is definitely a modern staple but not standard

 

[Angry Grimace]

Ajani probably saw less play than it should have. Keranos see a little play in Modern which is more than I can say for most of the Gods - especially the multicolored ones. Kiora is good in Cube. Prophet is kind of degenerate in EDH I hear. I never expected much from the others so them seeing not a shit-ton of play doesn't phaze me.

These are all cards I just thought looked really fun and cool and never ended up doing anything. For whatever reason I assume Athreos would be more of a legit card than it was, same with Reaper. Prophet was a fun card that never really went anywhere because it dies to Lightning Strike and costs 5.

 

[OnPoint]

In hindsight I probably should have tried Atheros in some kind of WB Warriors build.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I'm honestly surprised Ajani didn't see a comeback with Hangarback dominating. His +1s work well an Aggro Hangarback deck as a curve topper, though his 5 Mana cost sucks considering you can kill him for 3. I had been looking at picking up a playset when I started playing seriously.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm honestly surprised Ajani didn't see a comeback with Hangarback dominating. His +1s work well an Aggro Hangarback deck as a curve topper, though his 5 Mana cost sucks considering you can kill him for 3. I had been looking at picking up a playset when I started playing seriously.

I had a few and then offed 'em after I decided it wasn't that good in Abzan.

He's fine if you get him and a Hangarback out, but you end up in an Abzan (charm) mirror a little too often for comfort. Ajani + anything without an answer wins the game rapidly, though.

 

[Yeef]

Remember when Reaper of the Wilds seemed pretty good and then never saw play

Reaper of the Wilds was one of my pet cards. I'd always run anytime I got that chance even though I knew I should be playing other things.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Cards that can go fuck themselves on the way out:

GB is gonna lose it at Whip being there, but fuck sitting across from some jerkass who had a whip out. The lifelink clause was a total bitch to deal with. Ashiok was actually fine in terms of design, it was just miserable to sit across from it.

 

[Firemind]

Interesting that Keranos is definitely a modern staple but not standard

I played Keranos in Standard.

Thoughtseize and Pack Rat were party poopers. No fun allowed. :<

 

["God's Beard!"]

In hindsight I probably should have tried Atheros in some kind of WB Warriors build.

That was a day 1 spoiler deck that shot athreos up to 20 bucks and exactly 0 people ever played it because it suuuuucked. I remember arguing against Athreos in here when he was spoiled.

Pretty much nobody played it because Polukranos was just better and you didn't have to go Jund for it
[/IMG]

Lots of these saw occasional play, but they still weren't exactly staples.

Ashen Rider is a Legacy staple

GB is gonna lose it at Whip being there, but fuck sitting across from some jerkass who had a whip out. The lifelink clause was a total bitch to deal with. Ashiok was actually fine in terms of design, it was just miserable to sit across from it.

I don't mind, I don't build decks that are considerate towards my opponent's feelings :3

lantern control da bess

 

[platypotamus]

Let's imagine you have a cube that only has the 5 Khans fetches. Lets imagine you have some money earmarked for cube enhancements. Do you spend the money on the other 5, or do you go for some other cool stuff you're missing and wait for their reprints? How far off do we think those reprints are...?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Let's imagine you have a cube that only has the 5 Khans fetches. Lets imagine you have some money earmarked for cube enhancements. Do you spend the money on the other 5, or do you go for some other cool stuff you're missing and wait for their reprints? How far off do we think those reprints are...?

Khans of Tarkir
Fate Reforged
Dargons of Tarkir
Magic: Origins
Battle for Zendikar <------ you are here
POWER RANGERS
"Tears"
"Fears"
"Barrel" <----------------- here is where to expect enemy fetchlands at the earliest
"Laughs"

 

[Yeef]

I don't think they want all 10 fetches in standard at the same time, so at the earliest, about 6 months, when Khans rotates out. Realistically, we'll see them within two years at the most; if they're not in standard or a different supplemental product by then, they'll show up in Modern Masters 2017.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't think they want all 10 fetches in standard at the same time, so at the earliest, about 6 months, when Khans rotates out. Realistically, we'll see them within two years at the most; if they're not in standard or a different supplemental product by then, they'll show up in Modern Masters 2017.

We already pretty much know its not in POWER RANGERS, and Sam Stoddard already said he didn't want fetches + landfall to be around for the entire time BFZ is in Standard. That would mean Fall 2016.

 

[Matriox]

Pretty much nobody played it because Polukranos was just better and you didn't have to go Jund for it

List of other cards that I thought would be better

Lots of these saw occasional play, but they still weren't exactly staples.

http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/108813
Love me some prophet of Kruphix.
It's not tier 1 or anything, but I play this and it is exceptional at beating Abzan. Pretty abysmal against mono red, atarka red, and heroic though lol.
Flashing in den Protector eot to grab something, or stratus Dancer is pretty fun.

I thought xenagos God would have seen play for sure, even with a green devotion deck to hit 7 devotion he never really had a deck for him.

 

[Crocodile]

I agree with you that RTR and Khans are better, more carefully thought out sets, but they are a bit, how should I put this, safe. They aren't as raw as the original Ravnica and Shards. Let me explain this.

Khans for instance, with morphs as a mechanic, there was no way you could screw up your draft (unless you tried to force goblin slide or something). There are more than enough playables that actually made deckbuilding difficult at times. Morphs being ever present also meant less strain on the mana and curve. Everything was designed so you could play morphs on turn three. And nothing had an unmorph cost below five mana with toughness higher than two, which played into this. It's all very meticulously designed. Being an Izzet aficionado, I felt it wasn't brilliant in a crazy way. It didn't reward skill enough. There are few unmorph triggers unlike in Onslaught. The morphs were generally bigger creatures with no opportunity costs. It was laden with bombs. Comparing uncommons and rares isn't fair, but Khans had a vast number of bombs. So many that it warped drafts. Like there was no way to come back after your opponent plays Savage Knuckleblade on turn three while you're holding a bunch of morphs. Savage indeed.

RTR on the other hand was too restricted compared to the original Ravnica. And the bombs in RTR were much worse. Compare Loxodon Hierarch with Loxodon Smiter. They're both 4/4s with marginal abilities but the Smiter costs one mana less which is huge in limited. At uncommon level, there were the guildmages which were completely busted in the right deck. The original Ravnica's guildmages were mostly just playable apart from Selesnya. The original Ravnica actually had a lot of bad cards at all rarities. Why is it despite that lauded as one of the best limited formats? Because it rewards skill. It's satisfying and therefore fun to draft Ravnica. Having karoo lands and signets at common helped a lot as they lowered the chances of mana screws and floods.

I prefer formats where bombs aren't numerous (because I rarily open them.) They're a part of the variance in the game, but please, no more 4/4s with upside for three mana that are piss easy to cast.

Are you familiar with the concept (or I guess more accurately the term) of a Prince or Pauper limited format? A Prince format is one define by is bombs were the power level disparity between the lower rarity cards (especially the commons) is so below that of the higher rarity cards that they have a lower relative impact per game and it is hard to win matches if you don't open or get passed bomb rares. Pauper formats are the opposite. Like any format, Khans has bomb cards but it has a good number of quality commons (more important) and uncommons that means you can be successful in the format with few or no bombs. Saying Khans is a bomb driven format (open/get passed a bomb or get out) to its detriment just isn't true. This was less true of Shards of Alara from my experience of playing both formats.

The design of Morph in Khans was done specifically to minimize blowouts and extraneous guessing games and I think it worked to that regard. Sure Sagu Mauler was a beating but as a multicolor rare, its not something you're going to see often. Knuckleblade and Rhino were beatings too but I certainly they were more fair to play against than like Broodmate Dragon. Regardless, looking at the rares isn't enough. For example, Fate Reforged is maligned not just because it has a ton of bombs but because they were often easy to cast (monocolor), often weren't creatures (which made them hard to interact with) and most importantly there were very few good/playable commons in the set. It's all those factors together than made FRF bad for limited, not just strong rares.

As for RTR, comparing Smiter to Hierarch seems a bit unfair. Smiter is stronger in a vaccume but creatures on a whole have gotten better in every color. Smiter isn't as strong now relative to other creatures as Hiearch was back in original Ravnica block. As for Pack Rat (can't talk about RTR without mentioning that), yeah that was a big mistake.

Finally, I'm having a hard time understanding what you define as skill. Different formats test different skills. If you preferred Shards again that's totally cool but there's no way you can argue a format with as much variance as Shards compared to Khans or RTR (Pack Rat aside) is more "skill testing". I also don't agree that OG Ravnica the set had as many "bad cards" relatively speaking as Shards the set and the fixing in Ravnica (per set or as a block) was excellent relative to the demands of the format (WOTC clearly thinks it was too good in fact) which opened up the viable card pool in a way that wasn't true in Shards of Alara the set.

 

[kirblar]

In OG Ravnica you end up with a ridiculous number of playables- it's something they don't like about the format because it makes deckbuilding take forever.

 

[manipulate]

Those Theros cards are cool. I like Theros stuff, didn't really understand why people seemed to hate it.

Always thought it was a shame that Prophet of Kruphix never fit into anything.

 

[kirblar]

Theros is a bit mundane as a block, and BOTG is the epitome of Tom LaPille mediocrity and bad MaRo design choices. But the other two sets are good!

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Those Theros cards are cool. I like Theros stuff, didn't really understand why people seemed to hate it.

Always thought it was a shame that Prophet of Kruphix never fit into anything.

It's one of the most bah-roken cards in Commander, so there's that.

 

[Draxal]

Those Theros cards are cool. I like Theros stuff, didn't really understand why people seemed to hate it.

Always thought it was a shame that Prophet of Kruphix never fit into anything.

Theros came between two good sets (Khans and Return to Ravnica) and BotG sucks.

Anyway, got my Fire Emblem Cipher Lucina Sleeves in.

God, japan has the nerdiest card sleeves of all time. (the other sleeves I looked at trying to purchase this one ...)

edit.

Spoiler

I only posted that second part to torture Firemind

 

[manipulate]

To be fair, the Theros cards are much prettier than the Khans ones.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

To be fair, the Theros cards are much prettier than the Khans ones.

Which says a lot, because Khans had great art.

Theros' art is god-tier, it's gotta be top 3 in Magic all time. Seriously, I would be an artbook for that shit.

Cards that can go fuck themselves on the way out:

You forgot perhaps the biggest cunt in the bunch:

Who thought that shit was balanced?

:edit:

Theros is a bit mundane as a block, and BOTG is the epitome of Tom LaPille mediocrity and bad MaRo design choices. But the other two sets are good!

Compared to BfZ, Theros is Urza's block.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Stoke the Flames was an absurd burn spell. Especially alongside Hordeling Outburst and Rabblemaster.

 

[Hero]

Courser was way too good of a three drop aka two drop with mystic. Fuck Elvish Mystic

 

[A Serious Man]

"Guys, this 2/4 for 3 that accelerates you through your land draws needs some extra kick. Let's give it lifegain so maybe it will actually see play."

 

[charlequin]

Everything That’s Wrong with Battle for Zendikar

I don't even think it's fundamentally wrong to have Allies without the Rally mechanic, but that side-by-side comparison picture is damning.

I don't really get the Awaken complaint. Every set ever has some spell mechanic they stick on a bunch of stuff, where half of the cards it's just kind of there and the other half it kinda-sorta synergizes. This is pretty much the same deal -- in fact, it's far and away the most coherent part of the set.

 

[Ashodin]

Yeah Awaken is pretty much the marquee mechanic in the set.

 

[zethren]

I don't really see the problem with Devoid. It seems more or less a flavor thing, that the eldrazi are by nature devoid of color but are also influenced by the color mana they have ingested over time.

 

[Toxi]

Cards that can go fuck themselves on the way out:

GB is gonna lose it at Whip being there, but fuck sitting across from some jerkass who had a whip out. The lifelink clause was a total bitch to deal with. Ashiok was actually fine in terms of design, it was just miserable to sit across from it.

Meanwhile, EDH tables have to deal with Prophet of Kruphix forever.

 

[charlequin]

They should make dwarves artificact creatures like the iron dwarves in Wow.

They already did this with gnomes!

But then it really is problematic, as Jesse Mason notes, that his primary task in writing about game design is to sell Magic cards.

I'm not in college anymore so "but this guy did this thing because capitalism!" isn't innately impressive to me as a critique anymore.

I don't really see the problem with Devoid.

The problem with devoid is that the rest of the set is a hot mess so it stands out. I think if everything else worked then "keywording the ghostfire mechanic" wouldn't be seen as all that weird.

I will say that it's kind of bizarre that they worked (correctly, IMO) so hard to make sure people knew what was going on with these cards but totally missed that they should do the same thing with the Allies. I think a watermark would have 100% fixed the problem there.

 

[kirblar]

The problem is more that you cant hey straight answers out of maro until after they're out of hype mode

 

[pigeon]

The problem is more that you cant hey straight answers out of maro until after they're out of hype mode

Yeah it's this. I mean capitalism was designed to destroy human ethics, obvs, but in this case I was complaining that talking about game design is actually counterproductive if your prompt is "explain how XXX thing is excellent game design regardless of how you actually feel."

 

[duxstar]

Meanwhile, EDH tables have to deal with Prophet of Kruphix forever.

The fact that the EDH committee hasn't banned it yet is appalling. The logic for banning primevil titan should apply here.

Every single time it comes down it stops the game completely and becomees an answer this immediately type of card, and everyone either tries to kill it or copy it.

It has numerous times made me want to stop playing edh all together.