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[OnPoint]

The problem is more that you cant hey straight answers out of maro until after they're out of hype mode

Can't wait to see what he has to say about this set. I feel like we'll never get the full story, but behind the scenes was obviously a mess.

The fact that the EDH committee hasn't banned it yet is appalling. The logic for banning primevil titan should apply here.

Every single time it comes down it stops the game completely and becomees an answer this immediately type of card, and everyone either tries to kill it or copy it.

It has numerous times made me want to stop playing edh all together.

Love that card

But it should be banned.

 

[acheron_xl]

The fact that the EDH committee hasn't banned it yet is appalling. The logic for banning primevil titan should apply here.

Every single time it comes down it stops the game completely and becomees an answer this immediately type of card, and everyone either tries to kill it or copy it.

It has numerous times made me want to stop playing edh all together.

Agree 100%. It's made every UG/x deck miserable to play against. I'd also probably give Maelstrom Wanderer the axe too. Even in the hands of a well intentioned player, it gets out of hand quickly.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Meanwhile, EDH tables have to deal with Prophet of Kruphix forever.

Not just EDH, kitchen table FFA get awful with it too. Friend of mine plays it in his simic deck.

 

[OnPoint]

Agree 100%. It's made every UG/x deck miserable to play against. I'd also probably give Maelstrom Wanderer the axe too. Even in the hands of a well intentioned player, it gets out of hand quickly.

Wanderer is one of the most unfun cards for everyone but the person playing it. Kill it.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Love that card

But it should be banned.

My sentiments exactly. Not for power level concerns though - there are tons of cards in the format more powerful than Prophet. It's because it makes every single turn your turn, which is a bad play experience for everyone else.

Agree 100%. It's made every UG/x deck miserable to play against. I'd also probably give Maelstrom Wanderer the axe too. Even in the hands of a well intentioned player, it gets out of hand quickly.

It's really dangerous to start banning cards just because they're powerful. Wizards is going to keep printing powerful cards - if you take that attitude, the ban list is going to get over 100 cards real fast. I think the Rule Committee should stick to banning cards that create bad experiences. I don't agree with everything on the current banned list, but that general philosophy is something I do agree with.

 

[Bandini]

So yeah, the new set is pretty horrible for limited. There's very little creativity to be had in either draft or sealed. Sealed = open packs and hope you get good white and black cards. Huge step down from Khans, where I would frequently make 3, 4, even 5 color decks just cause there were so many good cards and land fixing was there with the duals. There just aren't very many good cards in BFZ period. Big disappointment.

 

[Firemind]

Are you familiar with the concept (or I guess more accurately the term) of a Prince or Pauper limited format? A Prince format is one define by is bombs were the power level disparity between the lower rarity cards (especially the commons) is so below that of the higher rarity cards that they have a lower relative impact per game and it is hard to win matches if you don't open or get passed bomb rares. Pauper formats are the opposite. Like any format, Khans has bomb cards but it has a good number of quality commons (more important) and uncommons that means you can be successful in the format with few or no bombs. Saying Khans is a bomb driven format (open/get passed a bomb or get out) to its detriment just isn't true. This was less true of Shards of Alara from my experience of playing both formats.

I can agree with that. Though if we&#8217;re making distinctions, there should be different categories of bombs. One one spectrum there are bombs that can take over the game at any point single-handedly. A good example would be Wurmcoil Engine. However, it takes six mana, so a deck like Infect could win the game before it takes over. On the other spectrum, there are bombs you can play early on and if your opponent doesn&#8217;t have an immediate answer to it, he or she loses. You play the game out, but in your mind you already know the outcome. Think Pack Rat and Citadel Siege. The bombs in Khans are between those two spectrums. I&#8217;m fine with control decks playing six mana bombs as win conditions; you get more draws and more time to set up your mana to deal with them and sometimes they just don&#8217;t matter. Broodmate Dragon, Flameblast Dragon, <insert> Dragon are fine because they&#8217;re dragons. Dragons are supposed to be imposing and powerful. With cheaper, slightly smaller dragons in Khans, games could end very quickly largely off one card, which makes it no fun for either party.

Finally, I'm having a hard time understanding what you define as skill. Different formats test different skills. If you preferred Shards again that's totally cool but there's no way you can argue a format with as much variance as Shards compared to Khans or RTR (Pack Rat aside) is more "skill testing". I also don't agree that OG Ravnica the set had as many "bad cards" relatively speaking as Shards the set and the fixing in Ravnica (per set or as a block) was excellent relative to the demands of the format (WOTC clearly thinks it was too good in fact) which opened up the viable card pool in a way that wasn't true in Shards of Alara the set.

We just have to agree to disagree with the variance of Khans and RTR relative to Shards. Drafting takes skill. In my experience with Khans, if you didn&#8217;t open certain cards, you&#8217;d be forced to draft something proactive to win games. Sultai for example was stone cold unplayable if you didn&#8217;t have the rares to support it. You could draft five colour and pick up the good stuff, but in my experience, the drafting was too inconsistent. I&#8217;m not salty because of a losing streak either; I had a lot of success with U/R. It&#8217;s just that drafting U/R for the millionth time kind of soured the format after a while. I passed so many Wardens of the Eye because it just wasn&#8217;t what I was trying to accomplish, namely to win games. In any other format, it would have been a semi-bomb (see: Izzet Chronarch). I could happily draft control in the original Ravnica block with just commons and uncommons. With RTR and Khans, the pieces rarely fell into the right places. Don&#8217;t get me wrong. Khans is a good limited set. It didn&#8217;t help that FTR and DTK left a bad impression as a whole though. Same with RTR; GC and DGM made the format worse. Whereas Conflux made Shards better. Perhaps that&#8217;s why I have fonder memories of Shards. Take note, R&D! Don&#8217;t blow all your wad on the first set! Maybe that&#8217;s why they designed BFZ to be terrible. :3

Theros came between two good sets (Khans and Return to Ravnica) and BotG sucks.

Anyway, got my Fire Emblem Cipher Lucina Sleeves in.

God, japan has the nerdiest card sleeves of all time. (the other sleeves I looked at trying to purchase this one ...)

edit.

Spoiler

I only posted that second part to torture Firemind

The art is really pretty. Very impressive. Good job picking them up! They should hire this artist to do the character art instead of fucking Yusuke Kozaki.

 

[Matriox]

release notes are available

Zendikar Expeditions cards appearing in Battle for Zendikar booster packs are playable in any Limited event using those booster packs. In a Sealed Deck tournament, those cards are part of your card pool. In a Booster Draft tournament, you must draft those cards for them to be included in your card pool.

Oh man, had no idea about this.

 

[OnPoint]

That was one of the first things people asked about. Of course you can play it if you open it. Nobody is passing an Expedition, though.

 

[Matriox]

That was one of the first things people asked about. Of course you can play it if you open it. Nobody is passing an Expedition, though.

I didn't pay attention close enough apparently lol, so what did the Zendikar proper rules say about when you opened power?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

There's a rule that says that if a card is in your pack in a Limited format, you can play it, even if it's not in the set. You might not realize it, but you used this rule if you ever played a fetchland during a DTK-DTK-FRF draft (the fetchland has a KTK symbol and is technically part of KTK, not FRF).

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That was one of the first things people asked about. Of course you can play it if you open it. Nobody is passing an Expedition, though.

There was a thread on reddit asking people what they'd do if someone passed you an expedition, I don't believe many people would let the person take back their pick.

Isn't there a may missing?

After players have kept their opening hands, each player who kept fewer cards than his or her starting hand size [may] looks at the top card of his or her library. That player may then put that card on the bottom of his or her library. (This is essentially the "scry 1" keyword action).

Wow Processors are super complicated

Face-down cards in exile are grouped using two criteria: what caused them to be exiled face down and when they were exiled face down. If you want to put a face-down card in exile into its owner's graveyard, you must first choose one of these groups and then choose a card from within that group at random. For example, say an artifact causes your opponent to exile three cards from his or her hand face down. Then on a later turn, that artifact causes your opponent to exile another two cards face down. If you use Wasteland Strangler to put one of those cards into his or her graveyard, you would pick the first or second pile and put a card chosen at random from that pile into the graveyard.

 

[Joe Molotov]

There was a thread on reddit asking people what they'd do if someone passed you an expedition, I don't believe many people would let the person take back their pick.

brb, going to find a store with a lot of inexperienced players

 

[ultron87]

Isn't there a may missing?

I don't think so. It isn't something you'd ever skip intentionally. And it saves one click on MTGO (ie there's no "Do you want to look at the top card of your library because you mulliganed?") Also, I doubt they'd ever penalize for this but not making it a may could theoretically be a way to make you tell an opponent who doesn't know about the rule about the rule.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I don't think so. It isn't something you'd ever skip intentionally. Also, I doubt they'd ever penalize for this but not making it a may could theoretically be a way to make you tell an opponent who doesn't know about the rule about the rule.

Makes sense just sounds weird. I know during the championship finals one of the players forgot he could scry.

If the non-awaken part of the spell requires a target, you must choose a legal target. You can't cast the spell if you can't choose a legal target for each instance of the word "target" (though you only need a legal target for the awaken ability if you're casting the spell for its awaken cost).

Does the last part actually work, say I have the bounce target creature awaken spell. If I had no targets for the bounce and casted it for the awaken cost wouldn't I have to bounce my land?

Or w/o self targeting could I play the counter for the awaken cost w/o a spell to counter?




Also interesting

If a spell with a converge ability is copied, no mana was spent to cast the copy, so the number of colors of mana spent to cast the spell will be zero. The number of colors spent to cast the original spell is not copied.

 

[Ashodin]

I can't wait for Saturday you guys

I want to read all the reports from you guys in this thread!

 

[Angry Grimace]

release notes are available


Oh man, had no idea about this.

This isn't really gonna be a problem unless you open a pack with foil Gideon, regular Gideon, Polluted Delta or something lol

Also fuck this deck

Deck: R/G Aggro BFZ

//Land
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cinder Glade
2 Mountain
2 Forest

//Creatures
4 Makindi Sliderunner
4 Scythe Leopard
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
3 Zurgo Bellstriker
1 Goblin Heelcutter
3 Lightning Berserker
4 Monastery Swiftspear

//Spells
4 Atarka's Command
2 Become Immense
3 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Titan's Strength
4 Wild Slash

Display deck statistics

 

[Jhriad]

I can't wait for Saturday you guys

I want to read all the reports from you guys in this thread!

I'll be sure to report when everyone around me opens an Expedition Fetch and I get some bulk rares. I'm already packing some extra salt in my draft bag for when it happens.

 

[ultron87]

Does the last part actually work, say I have the bounce target creature awaken spell. If I had no targets for the bounce and casted it for the awaken cost wouldn't I have to bounce my land?

Or w/o self targeting could I play the counter for the awaken cost w/o a spell to counter?

I think you're misinterpreting that part in parenthesis. It means that you don't have to target a land unless you paid the awaken cost. The "only" is a little misleading there. Thanks, English. You always have to have a target for the main part of the spell if it has a target. So you can't Cancel-Awaken (whether you paid for awaken or not) if there's no spell on the stack

 

[pigeon]

Does the last part actually work, say I have the bounce target creature awaken spell. If I had no targets for the bounce and casted it for the awaken cost wouldn't I have to bounce my land?

Or w/o self targeting could I play the counter for the awaken cost w/o a spell to counter?

At the moment that you declare targets for an awaken spell, the land you're targeting is not a creature. So you can't bounce the land you just awakened because you can't declare that land a target creature. (I mean, unless that land really is a creature, in which case you can and would have to if there were no other creatures in play.)

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think you're misinterpreting that part in parenthesis. It means that you don't have to target a land unless you paid the awaken cost. The "only" is a little misleading there. Thanks, English. You always have to have a target for the main part of the spell if it has a target. So you can't Cancel-Awaken (whether you paid for awaken or not) if there's no spell on the stack

The easiest way of saying this is that all of the targets of a spell have to be legal in order to put it on the stack.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think you're misinterpreting that part in parenthesis. It means that you don't have to target a land unless you paid the awaken cost. The "only" is a little misleading there. Thanks, English. You always have to have a target for the main part of the spell if it has a target. So you can't Cancel-Awaken (whether you paid for awaken or not) if there's no spell on the stack

That's what confused me.

The easiest way of saying this is that all of the targets of a spell have to be legal in order to put it on the stack.

They do say this and that's what I thought I knew it's just the wording that confused me.


Thanks for clarifying.

anyways this annotation

In some very rare situations, Aligned Hedron Network may enter the battlefield as a creature with power 5 or greater. If this happens, Aligned Hedron Network will exile itself along with other creatures with power 5 or greater. Those cards will immediately return to the battlefield. If this causes a loop with Aligned Hedron Network continually exiling and returning itself, the game will be a draw unless a player breaks the loop somehow.

made me wonder whether anyone ever built the ultimate loop to draw deck and went to a GP with it.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Nissa's Quest - more Nissa, more tripe
* The gist of the story is that Nissa realizes that something is happening at the Khalni Heart and decides to go there. This only happens in the last few paragraphs, the rest is her durdling around. I guess that means we'll have to deal with Ob Nixilis written by this writer.
* Munda, Ambush Leader, is introduced, but he has to be led around by Nissa's superior tracking skills and doesn't actually do anything. He's really just there as a prop to show how Nissa is better than him. This is literally the text right after the image of Munda in the article:

"Oh." Nissa said. The kor, Munda, was slightly off course again. The trail was harder to follow here. They were walking across hard, rocky ground now, which was significantly less revealing than soft dirt or leaves. "To your left."

Munda shifted course.

* Actual quote:

Nissa swallowed, but the hot lump in the back of her throat worked its way up behind her cheeks anyway. She closed her eyes as a single tear trailed down the side of her face.

EDIT: Another one:

"Gideon's right," Munda said. "We need every single man, woman, and child this world has to offer if we hope to stand a chance. That's one of the reasons I'm tracking down this goblin. Pili's a fighter. Obvious by her spirit. We especially need the fighters. We all have to band together. It's now or never. As one, we'll reclaim Sea Gate. And from there, we'll take back Zendikar."

Nissa's breath hitched. She almost spun on the kor, she almost snapped, almost told him that Zendikar wasn't something you could "take back." Zendikar wasn't something that belonged to anyone. Not to the people, not to the Eldrazi, not even to the great Commander-General Jura.

Zendikar, the real Zendikar, was simultaneously bigger than anything they could imagine and so much more intimate than they could ever understand.

She almost told him that when they cried out&#8212;"For Zendikar!"&#8212;they didn't know what they were saying. She almost told him. And then she heard the sobs of THE BABY a goblin.

 

[alternade]

The fact that the EDH committee hasn't banned it yet is appalling. The logic for banning primevil titan should apply here.

Every single time it comes down it stops the game completely and becomees an answer this immediately type of card, and everyone either tries to kill it or copy it.

It has numerous times made me want to stop playing edh all together.

It's a 2/3 that can easily be dealt with in a multiplayer game. Stop wanting cards banned because you don't like or don't know how to deal with them.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Nissa's Quest - more Nissa, more tripe
* The gist of the story is that Nissa realizes that something is happening at the Khalni Heart and decides to go there. This only happens in the last few paragraphs, the rest is her durdling around.
* Munda, Ambush Leader, is introduced, but he has to be led around by Nissa's superior tracking skills and doesn't actually do anything. He's really just there as a prop to show how Nissa is better than him. This is literally the text right after the image of Munda in the article:

* Actual quote:


EDIT: Another one:

Nissa is starting to sound sexually attracted to Zendikar.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I need to emphasize how much of a loser they made Munda in this story. Look at this part right before the part I posted before of Nissa getting angry about Gideon stealing her catchphrase.

Munda scratched the barbels on his chin. "You might be surprised, but I knew [Gideon] before all this."

His look indicated he was expecting some sort of reaction from Nissa. "Oh," she said. Most of her attention was focused on the goblin's tracks. They were headed in the direction of Sea Gate, just as Munda had predicted. Nissa wanted the goblin to be right, but she didn't see how Pili could be. Nothing was left at Sea Gate, she had seen it herself.

"We battled together, Gideon and me," Munda said. "Quite a number of times. Our paths would invariably cross, as neither of us shied away from taking on the biggest of the monsters."

"Oh," Nissa said again.

"That was before Sea Gate fell, of course. Now taking on one of the big ones is just considered foolish. Save yourself, because we need you for the fight that's coming, you know?"

Nissa nodded obligingly.

 

[jph139]

The gist I got from that story is "Nissa is an obsessive, self-righteous weirdo that no one wants to be around," which makes her a good counterpart to Jace as another reflection of their target audience.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

I for one am glad that everyone recognizes the superiority of Gideon.

 

[OnPoint]

Nissa's dialogue of "Oh" and nodding was really boring.

This was another in a long line of un-engaging stories.

Why do I read these lol

 

[Socat]

Nissa's dialogue of "Oh" and nodding was really boring.

This was another in a long line of un-engaging stories.

Why do I read these lol

The rest of the BFZ series was at least intriguing, this one was a snoozefest

 

[SigmasonicX]

I've found most of the Uncharted Realms stories interesting enough, except for the Nissa stories, which are all written by the same writer.

 

["God's Beard!"]

We just have to agree to disagree with the variance of Khans and RTR relative to Shards. Drafting takes skill. In my experience with Khans, if you didn&#8217;t open certain cards, you&#8217;d be forced to draft something proactive to win games. Sultai for example was stone cold unplayable if you didn&#8217;t have the rares to support it. You could draft five colour and pick up the good stuff, but in my experience, the drafting was too inconsistent. I&#8217;m not salty because of a losing streak either; I had a lot of success with U/R. It&#8217;s just that drafting U/R for the millionth time kind of soured the format after a while.

Oh, you mean the UR deck I taught you how to draft because you wouldn't stop telling me RW was better and everyone was laughing at me?

As your sensei, here's my position on the matter: Sultai is fine, but it's usually UGb Morphs splashing Abomination of Gudul and Dead Drop. Or GBu durdletown splashing Avens and Abomination of Gudul. I drafted a ton of Sultai(mostly in 4-5 color decks to be honest), but UR 11-creature Tempo was the champ.

Man, triple KTK was the best. Very low variance format. Morphs and mana out the ass solved so many issues.

 

[OnPoint]

The rest of the BFZ series was at least intriguing, this one was a snoozefest

I'd like to hear the conversation between Ugin and Jace (though I don't really want to hear the Jace stuff). How they're going to re-trap Ulamog interests me somewhat. I also wouldn't even mind the journey and subsequent success of Nissa's quest instead of the whiny filler we just got. I also get that those things are coming, but they can't just blow their load. I do get that.

However, giving us that Drana story last week was cool because it didn't feel like it meandered around. Maybe give us insight into some of the secondary and tertiary characters we'll likely never see again instead of making us read about the main characters spinning their wheels.

 

[Firemind]

Who ends sentences with 'you know' in what is supposed to be a fantasy setting?

Am I reading fanfiction.net?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Who ends sentences with 'you know' in what is supposed to be a fantasy setting?

Am I reading fanfiction.net?

Nissa is a time traveller confirmed, UG Nissa incoming

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think its funny that there's no story at all on Kiora or Ob Nixilis despite you know, them having Planeswalker cards and Jace and Nissa not even having cards (even though Jace and Nissa have standard legal, expensive cards of course)

 

[SigmasonicX]

I think its funny that there's no story at all on Kiora or Ob Nixilis despite you know, them having Planeswalker cards and Jace and Nissa not even having cards (even though Jace and Nissa have standard legal, expensive cards of course)

The next story is called "Home Waters", so Kiora will appear next week, probably.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Even the Uncharted Realms for BfZ are trash!
>:[

 

[OnPoint]

I think its funny that there's no story at all on Kiora or Ob Nixilis despite you know, them having Planeswalker cards and Jace and Nissa not even having cards (even though Jace and Nissa have standard legal, expensive cards of course)

This is what I'm talking about. They're focusing on these guys doing absolutely nothing when there are other characters, planeswalker or not, that might make for interesting tales.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

So did every writer, artist and designer other than Rosewater from Theros-Tarkir get fired or what

 

[Socat]

So did every writer, artist and designer other than Rosewater from Theros-Tarkir get fired or what

They are probably working on the next block after BFZ/OGW *shrug*

 

[Firemind]

Nissa is a time traveller confirmed, UG Nissa incoming

Imagine the characters from Lord of the Rings doing this.

Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this happened, you know?

Gandalf: Don't... tempt me Frodo! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand, Frodo. I would use this ring from a desire to do good... But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine, you know?

Boromir: None of us should wander alone, you least of all. Frodo? I know you suffer, I see it day by day. Are you sure you do not suffer needlessly? There are other ways, Frodo, other paths we might take, you know?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

They are probably working on the next block after BFZ/OGW *shrug*

My snide remark was more along the lines of incredible drop in overall quality. Mechanics I can understand, especially if they got smashed with condensing it into two sets. But the art? The narrative? The site's lore? All terribad.

::edit::

Firemind's little skit sounds like a bad direct-to-English anime translation haha

 

[Hero]

Nissa sounds terrible.

 

[Firemind]

Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. It is folly.

Frodo: Oh.

 

[Matriox]

There's a rule that says that if a card is in your pack in a Limited format, you can play it, even if it's not in the set. You might not realize it, but you used this rule if you ever played a fetchland during a DTK-DTK-FRF draft (the fetchland has a KTK symbol and is technically part of KTK, not FRF).

I never really thought about it, I never drafted any FRF so I didn't know that, but that makes sense. I really wish LGS's around me drafted at all, I even went to one I don't normally go to because I wanted to draft last week (they usually drafted after fnm when I used to play there) and they only had 3 people that wanted to draft.. I really don't like mtgo but it really is looking like my only option outside of hosting a draft at my house every once in awhile.

 

[OnPoint]

Nissa sounds terrible.

I didn't agree before, but I do now: Elf Hitler Nissa is superior.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I never really thought about it, I never drafted any FRF so I didn't know that, but that makes sense. I really wish LGS's around me drafted at all, I even went to one I don't normally go to because I wanted to draft last week (they usually drafted after fnm when I used to play there) and they only had 3 people that wanted to draft.. I really don't like mtgo but it really is looking like my only option outside of hosting a draft at my house every once in awhile.

This wasn't true with Priceless Treasures in Zendikar mostly because it was barely even publicly acknowledged those cards actually existed.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Imagine the characters from Lord of the Rings doing this.

Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this happened, you know?

Gandalf: Don't... tempt me Frodo! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand, Frodo. I would use this ring from a desire to do good... But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine, you know?

Boromir: None of us should wander alone, you least of all. Frodo? I know you suffer, I see it day by day. Are you sure you do not suffer needlessly? There are other ways, Frodo, other paths we might take, you know?

I wonder what Apple maps would make of the route to mordor

This wasn't true with Priceless Treasures in Zendikar mostly because it was barely even publicly acknowledged those cards actually existed.

I actually didn't know these existed until someone mentioned them a couple days ago here




Going through the list of cards that work with Zada in standard, this is the first after become immense that stood out.

 

[The Technomancer]

I never really thought about it, I never drafted any FRF so I didn't know that, but that makes sense. I really wish LGS's around me drafted at all, I even went to one I don't normally go to because I wanted to draft last week (they usually drafted after fnm when I used to play there) and they only had 3 people that wanted to draft.. I really don't like mtgo but it really is looking like my only option outside of hosting a draft at my house every once in awhile.

Same basic reason why Limited allowed you to use more than four copies of a card, without it the math of how many cards you have available to build your deck from becomes unfair.