Jeff Green's Son
Neo Member
It was mostly goblins, astral slide, and pychatog decks.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
It was mostly goblins, astral slide, and pychatog decks.
Infinite Stars
Member
Probably a bit of both. Blue's been given some nut cards recently(Dig, Cruise, Jace), but I know that certain pros tend to over value blue because they like it. I'm not one for psychological projecting, but I'd venture it has something to with the idea that the game can swing if you draw the right card and Blue having the best draw bar none in Magic.
True. I was thinking more just add mythics to the Rares and keep everything else intact, though I can imagine that would cause issues. Maybe just Walkers get moved to rare and something else becomes mythic?
Im super glad to see the warm welcome. Coming from hearthstone i was worried you guys would look down on us ccg folk, but im trying my darndest to read your standard discussion to learn, even if i have no interest in the format due to lacking time and money for it.
Hoping to go to my first friday night magic next week. Going to practice all week, and if i make mistakes, is what it is.
Hoping to go to my first friday night magic next week. Going to practice all week, and if i make mistakes, is what it is.
Pyke Presco
Member
Onslaught/Mirrodin were nowhere near the price of today's decks, and Odyssey/onslaught was even cheaper because UG Madness and Psychatog were pretty cheap, as was Monoblack control where the only expensive card was really murari. Onslaught/ Mirrodin you had goblin bidding which was a bit pricy due to bidding, pile driver,siege gang, shatpshooter and fetches. Astral slide and UW control were under $250, the eternal dragons, exalted Angels, wraths and fetches were each about $10-15, then came broodlord/ravager affinity which were 90% common and uncommon outside of chrome mox, glimmer void and ravagers which all told was maybe $150. Big Red played...arc slogger which was a 2 dollar rare and tooth and nail was a dirt cheap deck as well. Then there was the brief run of darksteel where every tribal deck ran 4 $1 skullclamps and just went to town with a $15 deck of garbage. The prices were way, way cheaper than nowadays.
It is. 110 rares in a set = lol prices on the chase cards.
Mutavault was what, 45? in Lorwyn era.
Infinite Stars
Member
For what it's worth, Hearthstone isn't bad for what it is. I often complain about it and it does have it's flaws, but the game wouldn't be as big of a source of complaints if it wasn't doing well.
FNM is probably one of the best places to learn, especially for Draft. BFZ is still relatively new, so you'll at less of a disadvantage then if it had been out for a month.
manipulate
Member
The art on Part the Waterveil is wonderful.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I will say one thing. BFZ might not be insane for standard, but it's insane for my BW Tokens EDH deck.
Zulaport Cutthroat
Gideon
Drana
Shambling Vent
Blighted Steppe
Blighted Fen
Spawning Bed
Mortuary Mire
Painful Truths
Zulaport Cutthroat
Gideon
Drana
Shambling Vent
Blighted Steppe
Blighted Fen
Spawning Bed
Mortuary Mire
Painful Truths
SigmasonicX
Member
Nope.
Anyway, only two planeswalker cards in Oath of the Gatewatch
I hope that Jace is the one left out this time. His presence in the block story is already well established, so Chandra is the one whose presence needs to be more strongly established by Oath.
Infinite Stars
Member
So Chandra and Nissa? I'd be down for that. Might also be due to Jace being the other walker tied to Lilianna and he could appear in the next block(Which will probably have her, right?)
Nissa is the face of the set, so she's a lock. I could see one of two scenarios for the other one. Either it's Chandra, because every other color already has a planeswalker in the block, or it's Jace because we're going to Kaladesh next and Chandra will get a card there. If it is Chandra, then the next block will likely be all about Liliana.
Played my first sealed tournament yesterday. Had a ton of fun! I didn't draw a ton of good cards from my packs so I went with blue, black, red ingest (also my first time playing 3 colours). Ended up 1-2, 1-2, 2-1, 1-1 and 2-1 on my 5 matches. Fairly happy that I didn't get blown out completely.
charlequin
Banned
Yes, Odyssey had U/G Madness which was composed mostly of uncommons. The Onslaught era was (besides being lousy in general) heavily defined by stuff like Goblin Piledriver, Akroma, etc. which sold for immense prices since there were so many rares in each set but so few you actually wanted.
You are... not remembering these prices correctly.
Pyke Presco
Member
Well, I could afford to have astral slide, goblin bidding and ravager affinity all at the same time on a minimum wage part time job as a kid making $6.40 working at Dairy Queen, so they definitely weren't that pricy. Exalted Angels might have pushed $20, but I'm pretty sure I was picking up most of the other stuff for under $15 a piece. Chrome mox was $25 at my store and that was probably the most expensive standard card I remember.
Even if that's true, adjusting for inflation, $15 in 2002 money is about $20 in 2015 money. The only rare that goes for more than that in standard is Pollluted Delta (going by TCG Mid). The only mythics that go for substantially more are Jace, BFZ Gideon (new card syndrome, likely to go down) and Ugin.
My understanding is that before mythic rarity, every rare was printed once on the rare sheet and there were just more rares in a set. These days every rare is printed twice and each mythic is printed once on the rare sheet, so the odds of getting an specific rare pre-mythics was about the same as the odds of getting an specific mythic now (though, I think the changes in set sizes skews the ratio a bit). On the other hand, individual rares are twice as common as they used to be, so they tend to be cheaper.
$80 for Fetus Jace? I haven't been paying too close attention - what decks and in what formats is he seeing so much play in? I mean I knew the card was absurd so I made sure not to leave the pre-release without a copy for my Regular Cube but I did want a second one for my Graveyard Cube but couldn't get another copy off anybody in a trade and I didn't want to pay $30-40 :/
Atarka's Command is another card I knew was good but couldn't find anybody with copies willing to trade and I really didn't want to pay cash for it since it was just going to go in a Cube. Kind of annoying :/
Atarka's Command is another card I knew was good but couldn't find anybody with copies willing to trade and I really didn't want to pay cash for it since it was just going to go in a Cube. Kind of annoying :/
He's seen Standard, Modern and Legacy play. People saw this coming.
As I said, it was obvious to me the card was good but there is a difference of demand between a $20-40 card and a $80 card. It's the later situation I didn't expect.
There's just literally nothing else in Origins to open except for the big 3 PWs and a few rando rares.
Buy your flipwalkers when they rotate- you won't get another chance any time soon.
Boogalogist
Member
I just opened 2x BfZ fat packs. Decent pulls. Here are the notable ones.
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
- Undergrowth Champion
- Oblivion Sower
- Sire of Stagnation
- Beastcaller Savant
- Endless One
- Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (foil)
- Island (foil)
A friend opened 2x BfZ fat packs as well....all crap rares except for a Zen Expedition Bloodstained Mire. At least that Bloodtained Mire sorta cover the 2 shitty fat packs.
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
- Undergrowth Champion
- Oblivion Sower
- Sire of Stagnation
- Beastcaller Savant
- Endless One
- Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (foil)
- Island (foil)
A friend opened 2x BfZ fat packs as well....all crap rares except for a Zen Expedition Bloodstained Mire. At least that Bloodtained Mire sorta cover the 2 shitty fat packs.
I mean, it's a $100 card sooooo.....
A frustratingly large number of sets in recent years can be described as "almost everything is crap so the few cards that are worth anything are now a million dollars each". I don't know if there is a way to avoid doing this that isn't power creepy or gimmicky but I do wish they would stop it.
This is what good lands do to a set. The ones where things go crazy are the ones with bad/no lands. (AVR, Origins, etc.)
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, its not like sets from recent years have been particularly underpowered. RTR, Theros, Khans block all have contributed plenty of cards to Modern, Standard has never seemed particularly weak (not like Kamigawa days), and Legacy...well lets not talk about legacy.
I think what happens is just that while there are always a lot of cards that lots of decks want, there are only ever a few cards that many different decks want. A card that 5% of the field is playing is worth less than one 30% is playing
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They should just make the nonbasic land in boosters they did in Gatecrash and FRF a permanent thing imo.
I think you mean Dragon's Maze.
I also think that's a terrible idea. It would warp limited formats quite a bit.
Don't misunderstand, I don't mean to imply WOTC hasn't pumped out some fantastic sets recently either (you mentioned a number of them - at least the lead sets in those blocks though Khans block was consistently good for Constructed). There have just been too many Magic Origins like scenarios for my tastes (I agree that a lack of good lands contributes as much as casuals supposedly complain about them).
I mean that would be great for consumers in the short run but they can't afford to make a new dual land cycle every six months and you can see the effect that the pain land reprints in Magic Origins & M15 had on the prices on those sets (next to none) and its obvious why. So that wouldn't solve this "1-4 cards are worth 40+ the rest are bulk" problem we are discussing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Oh yeah, Dragon's Maze. How would it warp limited?
Wouldn't these lower the EV by making boosters more lucrative?
It's also important to remember that for a really long time blue really was just the best color in Magic. Counterspell and Brainstorm were in core sets next to each other! (Which meant that for counters in block sets to see play, they pretty much had to be stronger than Counterspell.) It took a really long time for the Magic team to properly value card advantage (including card selection) and permission.
So there's a period of professional Magic where all the pros worked really hard on learning to play blue well because you pretty much did need to play blue to win, which means that there was a corresponding period right after that where, even though blue wasn't just better, it still outperformed because everybody was better at playing blue because they'd developed the relevant skills more. That's the kind of thing that takes a long time to work its way out.
A) The amount of mana fixing in a format has a strong influence on what types of decks and strategies are playable. It is a know you can intentional turn to influence speed and archetype building in both retail limited formats and Cube. Most retail limited formats are not designed to have as much fixing as full RTR block needed to run. Furthermore, having as much mana-fixing at the quality of pain lands, check lands, fetches, etc. would also have a big impact on the speed, supported archetypes and strategies, etc. of the format.
B) If rare level lands became so common, they would be worth less and not be able to hold down the prices of the other cards in the set. If you are basically getting them for free, they can't be as effective a trading tool.
There are too many professional players who didn't play during those days, too many old-school professional players who can adapt and play different strategies and too many old-school professional players who just don't like Blue for this to be true IMO. Blue is the best color at reducing variance and also is more likely to give you the sense (real or not) that you are the most in control of your own destiny. That's appealing to those with a very Spikey personality.
charlequin
Banned
Also being pro self-selected for people who preferred to play blue.
Infinite Stars
Member
That's kind of a fun flavorwise thing with Red and Blue: Both on their own want to control their Destiny but Red is through immediate action where Blue is through careful forethought.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Bottom line is that counters are, by their very nature, more powerful than any spell. Card draw that then lets you find the most powerful spells available being in the same color means blue will always and forever be the most powerful color in Magic. Nothing short of a massive color pie shakeup will ever fix that. And even then, it's already too late for modern and legacy. Best they can do is make card draw and counters suck in standard.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Not every set needs dual lands or even lands that can fix. Sure if you suddenly can go 3 or even 4 coloured in limited consistently it'd warp limited but it's not like every booster would have a rare land.
Rare lands being cheaper would be ideal wouldn't it.
A separate issue why does Nissa only fetch a basic forest? She'd be so much better than she already is if she could fix
Shuggananas
Banned
Sorcery, 4B
"If you have at least twice the cards in your library compared to target opponent's library, they lose the game"
Do it
Cascade Bluffs is $20+. Grove of the Burnwillows is $50+. :lol
Those are pre mythic sets though.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I need a 2nd Baby Jace so I can run 4 in my kitchentable izzet deck
Shuggananas
Banned
I got a french one if you like. Also got a french nissa.
Opened 2 Fat Packs over the weekend. First pack of the first one had a Expedition Flooded Strand. Rest of it was unexciting. 2nd Fat Pack had a Kiora and nothing else. I think I am done buying packs of this for a while. Going to see if the expeditions keep their value and I can find someone to trade the fetch land for a set of Jaces or as close as I can get to that.
edit: Also noticed with other people getting Expeditions out of fat packs that the right side is coming out slightly damaged and it seems to be a recurring issue with a lot of folks. Wonder if WOTC will replace them at all due to the high value and demand
edit: Also noticed with other people getting Expeditions out of fat packs that the right side is coming out slightly damaged and it seems to be a recurring issue with a lot of folks. Wonder if WOTC will replace them at all due to the high value and demand
We're at peak Origins supply now and, if this SCG Open is any indication, she's seeing moderate use in the new Standard so I wouldn't expect any significant depreciation for a while. If you're not in any rush she'll slide gradually but I wouldn't expect her to find her way under $10 regularly until the set after Oath.
It's not just a Fat Pack issue and Wizards has already said they'll replace them, thankfully. So far the right side damage/roughness seems to be a pretty common issue across the board with the Expeditions.
Nope, they are a way off - the new set has only just released!
- Status