Support NeoGAF

[SigmasonicX]

Yeah and a 2/2 is 3 mana, and add three to your mana pool cost 0. Coercive Portal and bottled cloister exist.

Coercive Portal is not in Modern and has never been in Standard.
Bottled Cloister's exiling can be considered an upside in some cases, but much of the time, it's a drawback that prevents you from casting spells during your opponent's turn.

The fact is that Jayemdae Tome is what's considered to be the appropriate cost for a 4 mana card drawing artifact in Standard. I remember when it was reprinted in M13, one of Wizard's articles mentioned that they were nervous about bringing it back due to it potentially being too powerful in Limited.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Eric Froelich wrote the grossest fucking article on CFB where he indicates he is salty that the 13-0 guy from the GP last weekend did not simply scoop to him to let him into the Top 8 and that he and his friends plan to get revenge in the future. But hey, no hard feelings. Because obviously, if you're an inexperienced player bombing a tournament, you should just scoop to the recognizable players to do them favors for reasons.

He's already in the Hall of Fame, he doesn't need to be above this sort of thing anymore.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Q: Are you angry about the situation?

A: Short answer is an easy no. It’s also not something I will ever forget.

lmao

oh, he mad

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";197644691]He's already in the Hall of Fame, he doesn't need to be above this sort of thing anymore.[/QUOTE]

I guess, I just think this is straight up unsportsmanlike conduct. The thing is, IDs are already a thing that WOTC frowns on and wouldn't make legal if they had a real option to do so (e.g. if they could implement a chess clock in paper Magic like they have in MTGO). Straight up concessions to players you've heard of is really just collusion of a highly suspect nature. I'm sure the guy who would have finished 9th would have been REAL happy to know his competition got into the top 8 without actually doing anything despite MTG tournaments being based on match wins, not how many friends you've got.

 

[SigmasonicX]

lmao

oh, he mad

Who is this and what is that person talking about?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Why don't they just outlaw it? Never liked that aspect in competitive, it's very incestious.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Who is this and what is that person talking about?

It's EFro's article on CFB where he wrote several paragraphs shooting fire at the guy who he played at the GP who was 13-0 because that player did not scoop to him on the spot to give EFro a free win.

 

[kirblar]

Why don't they just outlaw it? Never liked that aspect in competitive, it's very incestious.

You can't. It's better to have it out in the open.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Who is this and what is that person talking about?

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/11th-in-houston-with-jeskai-black/

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hasn't EFro been considered toxic for a long time before he kind dialed back on the doucheyness to get writing jobs, etc?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You can't. It's better to have it out in the open.

Just because they'd have to police it? They police if it's decided randomly and it wouldn't be that hard for a judge to walk up to a finished game that seems over too soon and ask for a recap.
If players are intentionally playing a game badly or slow playing they should receive warnings.
It happens in other sports and it can go as far as both parties being disqualified.?

I was really weirded out how the casters actually take IDs into account and talk as if that's something that's supposed to happen. It makes for a incestious top end. For teams playing the system, all a competition that wants to be taken serious shouldn't allow.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just because they'd have to police it? They police if it's decided randomly and it wouldn't be that hard for a judge to walk up to a finished game that seems over too soon and ask for a recap.
If players are intentionally playing a game badly or slow playing they should receive warnings.
It happens in other sports and it can go as far as both parties being disqualified.

Intentional draws and tournament manipulation would be illegal if they could stop it. They can't.

It is telling that had EFro vocalized what he said in this article to Jacobson at the table, he would have been DQ'd from the tournament.

 

[kirblar]

Hasn't EFro been considered toxic for a long time before he kind dialed back on the doucheyness to get writing jobs, etc?

I mean, the gofundme thing sort of said it all.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Magic is a game of skill and variance. When you're picking 8 out of thousands, people who deserve to make the cut simply aren't going to. Some people can handle that sort of thing - some can't. We've seen incredibly talented people go so far as to resort to cheating in the past because they couldn't handle the fact that less talented people might actually beat them. There's a sense of entitlement in these sorts of people - they believe they deserve success even in the face of variance. Given his history, this doesn't surprise me at all from EFro - he thinks he deserved the Top 8 because of his skill level and history, and he believes it was literally stolen from him.

What a tool.

Spoiler

EDIT: I don't mean to imply that EFro is or ever was a cheater - simply that when people believe they deserve something, they will often to go great lengths to get it.

 

[Lucario]

I mean, the gofundme thing sort of said it all.

GoFundMe thing?

I just read his article. It'd be bad enough if he just made a vague complaint about refusing IDs when you're a lock for top 8, but calling out the guy by name? Ridiculously unprofessional.

His repeated insistence in the comments that he's not complaining, not angry, and not calling anyone out is hilarious.


Also, how is this not bribery? EFro is literally saying that conceding will make him "go far out of (his) way to help you in the future".

 

["God's Beard!"]

If you really want to reduce variance in competitive play without changing fundamental rules of the game, then just print a crap ton more modal spells at uncommon and above. Give people opportuies to make subtle mistakes. The worst standard games are when one person loses because they drew one fewer 5 mana 2-for-1 creature than their opponnent.

 

[El Topo]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";197644691]He's already in the Hall of Fame, he doesn't need to be above this sort of thing anymore.[/QUOTE]

So? If someone behaves in an entirely inappropriate way throw him out. Not saying this is necessarily such a case, but in principle it's not a complex problem.

 

[WanderingWind]

So? If someone behaves in an entirely inappropriate way throw him out. It's not a complex problem. Not saying this is necessarily such a case.

Oh, man, would that be awesome. I mean, CFB is paying the guy to make threats in an article hosted with their name on top. I feel, professionally, they should take action. That's unacceptable from an employee or a contractor. "Pro" Magic players are a dime a dozen. Nobody gives two shit about fucking EFro. Bin his stupid ass.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It just shows how incestuous it is. Still think you could ban it in comp REL, just have to be strict in punishment for a while and it'll fade away.

On the other hand friends conceding to each other for pro points to lock one of the tiers in is nice, so idk. Conceding is a bit different though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh, man, would that be awesome. I mean, CFB is paying the guy to make threats in an article hosted with their name on top. I feel, professionally, they should take action. That's unacceptable from an employee or a contractor. "Pro" Magic players are a dime a dozen. Nobody gives two shit about fucking EFro. Bin his stupid ass.

They're all doing this, although I'd really like to know how he got thrown off of the official team.

 

[WanderingWind]

Holy shit, and he's whining about not being able to find cards. While writing for CFB. Yeah, that's a good luck. I have long had a huge problem with "pros" getting their thousand dollar decks for free. This is just the icing on the cake. Who the fuck are these dweebs writing for?

 

[traveler]

Q: Are you angry about the situation?

A: Short answer is an easy no. It’s also not something I will ever forget. It would take multiple acts of kindness from that player before I would consider helping him out in the future, and I think many of my friends would feel similarly.

How do you write this without any sense of self awareness? Holy shit.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

On a different note: the flavor texts for Tamiyos Journal have different numbers in each of the different languages...

 

[Lucario]

On a different note: the flavor texts for Tamiyos Journal have different numbers in each of the different languages...

Good eye. Wonder what that means?

 

[Bandini]

On a different note: the flavor texts for Tamiyos Journal have different numbers in each of the different languages...

Tamiyo 3:16 says I'm gonna tap your ass

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm making a cube list now based around highly malleable and variance-reducing cards while keeping the power level of actual win conditions relatively low. For a bit of perspective, Painter's Servant is going to be one of the slam dunk 1st pick bombs.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Couldn't a judge just separate two players that seemed fishy in the speed of their match and ask them how they won/lost? If there's reasonable doubt warn or disqualify both.

If you do this enough am intentional concession would make it necessary to either play out the match or make up story but everything that makes it more of a hassle would already be an improvement.

 

[Ashodin]

It's likely a cipher of some sort.

 

[A Serious Man]

From the article it's pretty clear that he's mad because after bombing at the PT's, he'll have a hard time getting Platinum again this year. I don't have a problem with the pros conceding or drawing to each other so they can reach Gold or Plat but Mark Jacobson is relatively new and trying to get on that train himself I imagine. I have zero sympathy for Efro.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Doug Beyer finally answering questions on tumblr again.

Unlike Dark Ascension, Sorin will actually be in the story

Q:Hi Doug, loving how we got off on a good start with the Shadows over Innistrad plot today. So is Sorin going to be more relevant this time around, or are we going to get the same Sorin we got in Dark Ascension (i.e., showed up in the set and literally had Liliana resolve the reason he showed up for in the first place)?
Anonymous

The official answer is HMM WE’LL HAVE TO SEE I GUESS but the sekrit answer is there is some Very Relevant Sorin in this storyline this time around. Oh man.
#sorin markov #mtgsoi #storyline
#he is GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOME STUFF other than looking solemnly at things
#although there is a bit of that as well tbh #but then like #some FRIGGING DRAMA #because YEAHHH

How many people died in Battle for Zendikar

Q:Feedback: It has been a great storyline and it was an absolute pleasure to really be able to get into the story alongside the cards, a first for me. My question: How much population have Zendikar lost? How much landmass have been calcified or... whatever Kozilek did to it? The scale of the destruction seems to be on an extinction-level, even for the notoriously tough people of Zendikar.
oragada

Basically the landmasses known as Sejiri (sort of Zendikar’s polar ice cap) and Bala Ged (the huge jungle-marsh region) were utterly destroyed by the Eldrazi. There’s nothing left of those places but Ulamog’s gray dust and Kozilek’s bismuth-like devastation. Sejiri wasn’t very populated by humanoids, but Bala Ged was the home of many Joraga and Mul Daya elves. Some refugees were able to flee Bala Ged, but many, many people died there. I don’t think we’ve pinpointed the total humanoid population of Zendikar so I don’t have an exact death tally, but it is enough that it will shock ecosystems and alter culture there. Nissa has hope that Zendikar will be able to regrow past this tragedy, but entire continents will serve as reminders of the Eldrazi titans for a long time.
#zendikar #eldrazi #pour one out for the Zendikari badasses who are no longer with us

 

[OnPoint]

Sorry Efro. You look like a tool here.

 

[Infinite Stars]

The other truly strange card implemented straight from Yuuya’s version is Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Gideon is a quick clock and the emblem is powerful with the tokens created from Monastery Mentor. The mana requirement is not the easiest in a deck that wants double-blue, double-red, and double-black

Then why the fuck is the deck called Jeskai Black?

Game 2 I had the game stabilized at a double-digit life total and needed to untap the next turn to lock it up, but a dashed Kolaghan off the top ended things.

Yeah, no, Stabilized does not mean that they can deal 10+ points of damage even with a Dashed Kolaghan. Especially with him claiming he has a good matchup.

Of course he's whining about not getting it handed to him on a silver platter.

 

[Angry Grimace]

From the article it's pretty clear that he's mad because after bombing at the PT's, he'll have a hard time getting Platinum again this year. I don't have a problem with the pros conceding or drawing to each other so they can reach Gold or Plat but Mark Jacobson is relatively new and trying to get on that train himself I imagine. I have zero sympathy for Efro.

He's in the HOF, he doesn't need to get Platinum anymore, HOF means auto-invite to all PTs forever + appearance fees.

 

[Ashodin]

Doug Beyer finally answering questions on tumblr again.

Unlike Dark Ascension, Sorin will actually be in the story


How many people died in Battle for Zendikar

#enough

#with the fucking

#hashtags goddamn

 

[SigmasonicX]

The shard is from the stained glass window from Relentless Dead / Endless Ranks of the Dead. Even if the card is jank, the flavor is great. EDIT: Though it's actually broken in a different place than Relentless Dead. Different window, then.

 

[charlequin]

Why don't they just outlaw it?

It's not just that it's very difficult to catch since most games at any event are played off-camera and away from prying eyes (although it is in fact very difficult to catch for this reason.) It's also that when you look at something so difficult to catch and so fuzzy in definition and you try to enforce it anyway, you create the worst kind of incentives.

Still think you could ban it in comp REL, just have to be strict in punishment for a while and it'll fade away.

You think incorrectly. This is kind of a Philippe "we'll make a new party with all the good ideas of both parties and none of the bad" thing. It's not that easy and the policy we have now is the result of tons of smart people working for years to optimize the rules. There just isn't an easy, straightforward alternative solution lying around.

Hasn't EFro been considered toxic for a long time before he kind dialed back on the doucheyness to get writing jobs, etc?

In both Magic and poker!

For the most part the problem with EFro isn't that he's the most common type of bad-person archetype in Magic -- I don't think I've ever seen any evidence that he's a cheater or thief, that he manipulates the rules, etc. I think it's just that he really is just personally douchey. I'd like to think his rebrand was more about trying to actually be a better person than just getting gigs but even if it is it's a long hard road to giving up douchiness entirely.

 

[red13th]

I first saw Froelich doing commentary on VSL and he was so annoying, I didn't even know he was a certified douche

 

[Santiako]

Just read Efro's article. What a cock, and he is whining further in the comments.

 

[charlequin]

It is definitely unfortunate to see EFro throwing a fit about something like this when Good Guy Pikula is scrounging around in RPTQs just trying to earn another shot at a HoF vote.

 

[Lucario]

I think it's impossible to ban top 8 concessions and IDs. Nearly impossible to enforce, way too many loopholes.

I guess you could theoretically ban it for camera matches, but what if a player just "forgets" to sign their coverage waiver that day? What if they play sub-optimally on camera to force a loss, or hide their hands from coverage and mulligan to 3? FGC had similar problems in the past, and it was terrible for viewers.

The only thing you can do is investigate when someone is abusing the system by colluding with other players beforehand. Arguably, EFro is doing exactly that by promising "equity" and claiming he'd "never choose to play" against someone who conceded to him. He's blatantly offering benefits to people who would concede to him in the future.


edit:

And how does that make you feel, EFro?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Back in 2012 olympics teams that were clearly trying to throw in badminton were being disqualified.

Same could be done in Magic. It doesn't get around sensible throwing but it makes it more difficult for the participants and once it become inconvenient and shadier it should happen less.

I'm not saying there's a catch all solution but disallowing and enforcing it would at least be an official stance against it and nothing that can be openly discussed.

 

[kirblar]

Back in 2012 olympics teams that were clearly trying to throw in badminton were being disqualified.

Same could be done in Magic. It doesn't get around sensible throwing but it makes it more difficult for the participants and once it become inconvenient and shadier it should happen less.

I'm not saying there's a catch all solution but disallowing and enforcing it would at least be an official stance against it and nothing that can be openly discussed.

That situation is actually the exact reason why you legalize them, and why bad rules make for awful incentives. The badminton players got better seeding if they lost. The whole situation was completely fucked. Trying to throw was the correct move, and they were punished for trying to win the tournament because of awful rules.

We know what the least bad option is- the current one. It brings things in the open, it prevents fake games, and it stops most of the additional bullshit you get by trying to tax "sin". It doesn't work.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Don't particularly agree with that. Hearing people in teams talk open how they are trying to bring their teammates in is pretty appalling.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Don't particularly agree with that. Hearing people in teams talk open how they are trying to bring their teammates in is pretty appalling.

In principle, it's unethical. But it's unenforceable - so much so that you end up incentivizing people to play "bad" games of Magic instead of just letting them not play at all. So you allow people to scoop or ID. And once you make it legal, it can't be unethical anymore (more or less by definition).

 

[charlequin]

Same could be done in Magic.

It can't while still maintaining a functional competitive event scene, no. I'm sorry but you really aren't considering the situation in enough detail if you think it's a simple fix. This isn't really a question of opinion, there's just a factual answer about which option is better and it's the one we have now.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

In principle, it's unethical. But it's unenforceable - so much so that you end up incentivizing people to play "bad" games of Magic instead of just letting them not play at all. So you allow people to scoop or ID. And once you make it legal, it can't be unethical anymore (more or less by definition).

Why is it unenforceable? I haven't followed comp mtg long enough to have witnessed a time it wasn't like it's now.
Why can't you enforce it in MTG when so many other competitive games and sports do.

Playing objectively bad can be punished.

It can't while still maintaining a functional competitive event scene, no. I'm sorry but you really aren't considering the situation in enough detail if you think it's a simple fix. This isn't really a question of opinion, there's just a factual answer about which option is better and it's the one we have now.

I'm not saying there's an easy fix. Does MTG really need the incesteous behaviour by the organised groups to function and even if the ceiling thins wouldn't that open up the space for more newcomers?

 

[Angry Grimace]

"Hey there, this is Marshall Sutcliffe coming to you live from Detroit where we're doing the Modern GP! Okay here's our first match, a mirror match between the Eldrazi deck whe-"

*click*

 

[divisionbyzorro]

 

[SigmasonicX]

Day side not available yet, but it's probably Avacynian Missionaries (3W).

When this creature transforms into CARDNAME, you may exile another target creature until CARDNAME leaves the battlefield.

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[kirblar]

Why is it unenforceable? I haven't followed comp mtg long enough to have witnessed a time it wasn't like it's now.
Why can't you enforce it in MTG when so many other competitive games and sports do.

Playing objectively bad can be punished.

And it's a bad idea to punish it. People aren't watching most games.

This is the same reason forcing teams to run fake games in GFs when both have already Qd (and there's no further prize available) isn't worth it.