Support NeoGAF

[Infinite Stars]

Hidden Herbalists is what I mean by Green getting fucking everything nowdays. Green has the best card draw in Standard(Oath of Nissa/Vital Force/Tireless Tracker) when Blue has fuck all.

Uhhhh. Great revel, vexing devil and sulfuric vortex are good cards and they are punisher cards....

That's not what I meant.

I mean cards like Rob(Sin Prodder) from SoI, The Red Gearhulk, fucking Tribute as a mechanic, IE: "I do something good if you don't pay the cost". IE cards that suck, because you (as the red player) get no choice and your opponent will pick whatever decision best suits them.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Ah I was thinking of the SCG Dallas Modern Open. This was the sideboard

3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Tidebinder Mage
2 Dispel
4 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Unified Will

He was on 2 Kira's in the main. No cliques.

Hidden Herbalists is what I mean by Green getting fucking everything nowdays. Green has the best card draw in Standard(Oath of Nissa/Vital Force/Tireless Tracker) when Blue has fuck all.

Glimmer of genius is great, flashing it back with torrential gearhulk is pure crack. Green has had strong draw for a very long time, blue had to suck for some time because of JVP

 

[Infinite Stars]

Ah I was thinking of the SCG Dallas Modern Open. This was the sideboard

He was on 2 Kira's in the main. No cliques.

What. That just looks..Wonky as all get out.

Like, I know Merfolk basically dies against Affinity so the 4 Hurkly's makes sense,
but why the Dispels over the Unified Wills? Why 4 Tidebinder mages in the board?

 

[charlequin]

They should go back to the pre-M10 Core Set model, where a Core set of only reprints is printed every other year, and is legal until the next set comes out. Go back to 3 expansions a year, and have both a Consipiracy and a Masters set in the years that have no core set.

This is not a workable plan. They got rid of core sets because they were a huge amount of expenditure and effort for something that nobody wanted to buy, and thus a huge crater in their earnings every year. People feeling like they want Standard to have more consistency is reasonable but doesn't actually fix any of the problems that made core sets go away. Similarly, two blocks a year solves a problem (player engagement) that they can't address in the old world.

The solution isn't to throw in the towel on the changes completely, it's to figure out ways to make Standard work in the current environment. The obvious solution is some way to get stuff into the format that doesn't rotate as fast and doesn't need to be 100% dependent on the creative and mechanical themes of the expansions. My favored plan for this is an insert set that just continues all year and has 30-40 relatively straightforward staple cards. The other idea I've heard is an annual "deck building kit" boxed set that contains 4-ofs of various staples and which rotates slowly year to year. Either way you can introduce staple cards into the environment in a way that doesn't involve printing a huge amount of a set people don't like and don't want.

I think the solution they'll go for is to have two blocks in a row have similar themes.

This also cuts against the player-engagement issue. They just need to make blocks that don't lean into their theme 110% and jack up the hate ratio.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

What. That just looks..Wonky as all get out.

Like, I know Merfolk basically dies against Affinity so the 4 Hurkly's makes sense,
but why the Dispels over the Unified Wills? Why 4 Tidebinder mages in the board?

No idea but he got 3-4th. Tidebinder should be pretty great in this current meta, I get the 4 in the side. It's weirder he doesn't commit to having 1 in the main at least. 2 Unified Will isn't unusual, maybe it's for DSJ. With all their removal it's not unusual for them to have just as many creatures and it can lead to some real blowouts.

People have been cutting Hurkyl's altogether.

 

[Card Boy]

Whats a good cheap pauper deck i can make for under $10?

 

[Firemind]

Whats a good cheap pauper deck i can make for under $10?

green stompy

 

[Angry Grimace]

Naturalize wouldnt have solved anything.

I think there is a Naturalize variant (Natural Obselesence) and it sees no play

 

[Tunoku]

I could sleeve up my Standard deck tomorrow to pay 10€ for a GPT.

Or I could play Modern for free.



🤔

Spoiler

Probably gonna play Standard. I need some practice.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think there is a Naturalize variant (Natural Obselesence) and it sees no play

It sees play as 1 ofs or a couple in the sideboard. Before Fatal Push Natural State was run a ton as well in green based decks.

 

[GoutPatrol]

I think there is a Naturalize variant (Natural Obselesence) and it sees no play

That's artifacts only too.

 

[Firemind]

omg draft leagues are so stupid

i just got paired against two r/g aggro with burning-tree shamans

and i'm playing r/g aggro myself

so dumb

 

[noquarter]

Kira and Clique have been an either or for most merfolk players.

I'm confusing the players right now I could swear there was another merfolk player posting results recently with an unusual sideboard but I can't find it on mtgtop8. Nikachu of course is a well known fish player.
His sideboard was still a bit unusual with 3 dispels.

Well, what would you choose? I figured with Fatal Push and everything, go with Kira, but Clique is the better body.

I was looking at Dispel as well, not really sure what to do with the sideboard. Was planning on running all 8 seas, mainly because of the fetch reprint and expecting more players, even if just a few, to be playing non basics.

Hurkyls Recall x 2 in the board, probably going to run 3 Relic of Progenitsus. Couple Vapor Snags. Few Remands. Kind of unsure what else to pop in there. Will try to post my list tomorrow probably if you need mind looking over it.


Edit: On getting cards into Standard, they could always use the Starter Decks, they did it in the past. Just throw one copy of whatever in the deck that is a reprint and done. If it is something that has been in a previous core set and not Lightning Bolt, should be good. If it is Lightning Bolt, well throw four in and sell the shit out of it.

 

[OnPoint]

Edit: On getting cards into Standard, they could always use the Starter Decks, they did it in the past. Just throw one copy of whatever in the deck that is a reprint and done. If it is something that has been in a previous core set and not Lightning Bolt, should be good. If it is Lightning Bolt, well throw four in and sell the shit out of it.

Honestly, this is the cleanest answer. Wow.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Well, what would you choose? I figured with Fatal Push and everything, go with Kira, but Clique is the better body.

I was looking at Dispel as well, not really sure what to do with the sideboard. Was planning on running all 8 seas, mainly because of the fetch reprint and expecting more players, even if just a few, to be playing non basics.

Hurkyls Recall x 2 in the board, probably going to run 3 Relic of Progenitsus. Couple Vapor Snags. Few Remands. Kind of unsure what else to pop in there. Will try to post my list tomorrow probably if you need mind looking over it.

I only have Kiras but I'd run cliques if I had access to them. Why would the fetch reprint influence the number of seas? They can't be sea'ed, experienced players will just wait to fetch.
Not sure about remands and both vapor snags and dismember have kinda been bad recently.

 

[y2dvd]

Did $50 sealed at FNM. This is just my pool. I'd say it paid for itself.

That's a foil Krosa and Griselbrand btw. Doing 5 colors and bombing bad but I don't even care lol.

 

[Tunoku]

Congrats on those pulls, that's just insane. And $50 for Sealed is an amazing deal.

 

[Wulfric]

*great big sigh of relief*

Day 0 of GP Orlando was a bust performance wise. I only won a single round out of seven for legacy side events. That being said I bought some gorgeous Japanese foil Mother of Runes for $15 each. Also got a Judge foil Sword of Fire and Ice for $60.

I also managed to get a good start on my GP artist playmat. First was an Ancestral Recall sketch from Mark Poole, who did some great linework for a fair price. I'm sure he's done Recall enough to do it from memory lol.

Victor Adame Minguez did a demon sketch, although it was bit blurry for my taste. Volkan Baga made a replica of Freejam Regent. It even looks like a cute furry tiger! I'll post the finished playmat tomorrow, it's only half full right now.

 

[noquarter]

I only have Kiras but I'd run cliques if I had access to them. Why would the fetch reprint influence the number of seas? They can't be sea'ed, experienced players will just wait to fetch.
Not sure about remands and both vapor snags and dismember have kinda been bad recently.

Access to more fetches means people will be more willing to play multi color decks. This isn't a huge money tournament, so wouldn't be surprised to see some budget decks enter as well. Like burn playing Rw with easier access to Arid Mesas and PtE. Shutting off White, if they only run 1 plains, will affect them and give me more targets to play seas on.

Edit: And thanks for the advice. Haven't played Fish almost at all, except for testing and Affinity was a pretty bad matchup, as well as Infect. My wife won't play Dredge, so can't really test that too much.

 

[Angry Grimace]

101 players at FNM tonight.

 

[noquarter]

What was it? Draft? Kind of crazy. I've never gone to a FNM that packed.

13 at mine. That is pretty average for a non-prerelease or Masters set drafts. Those get up to about 40. For the first FNM of the month they do 2 Headed Giant and that usually just has about 4 people not sure up and 2 extra pairs play.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What was it? Draft? Kind of crazy. I've never gone to a FNM that packed.

13 at mine. That is pretty average for a non-prerelease or Masters set drafts. Those get up to about 40. For the first FNM of the month they do 2 Headed Giant and that usually just has about 4 people not sure up and 2 extra pairs play.

Modern/Standard/Draft.

Standard had like 30, Modern like 14 and draft is the rest. There's other players not counted playing EDH.

 

[Yeef]

Opened a foil Cavern of Souls in tonight's draft. Abrupt Decay was also in the pack and I could have actually played it, but money is cool.

 

[Card Boy]

green stompy

Can link me a deck list? The ones i'm seeing are an upward of $65!

 

[Angry Grimace]

I bought the last 3 packs they had. Got a 3rd Liliana, which means I've pulled more Liliana's than any other other Planeswalker in any set.

 

[OnPoint]

Anyone know if customer service is still replacing Expeditions that have a messed up edge on the border?

 

[Supast4r]

Hidden Herbalists is what I mean by Green getting fucking everything nowdays. Green has the best card draw in Standard(Oath of Nissa/Vital Force/Tireless Tracker) when Blue has fuck all.


That's not what I meant.

I mean cards like Rob(Sin Prodder) from SoI, The Red Gearhulk, fucking Tribute as a mechanic, IE: "I do something good if you don't pay the cost". IE cards that suck, because you (as the red player) get no choice and your opponent will pick whatever decision best suits them.

The cards I listed are punisher cards. There have been good ones in magic history.

 

[Firemind]

Can link me a deck list? The ones i'm seeing are an upward of $65!

I think the only things that are worth something are the Nettle Sentinels and Quirion Rangers. Replace them with Llanowar Elves and Rogue Elephants or something. Provided you still have them in shoeboxes like I do. Shit, I might even have Nettle Sentinels and Quirion Rangers.

 

[Infinite Stars]

The cards I listed are punisher cards. There have been good ones in magic history.

No, I get that. But Punisher is used to refer to this:

http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Punisher


I meant was Red getting "Opponent gets to pick whatever option they want" on cards, despite it being an awful Mechanic in the real gameplay. None of the cards you mentioned give you choice, they're fundamentally "You do X, you get smacked upside the head". Of the cards you listed, only vexing devil really counts as "punisher", and even then it's still a bad card . Eidolon of the Great Revel is not punisher

Tribute sucked, Sin Prodder sucks, Red Gearhulk sucks, etc, and Punisher Mechanics never really work without upside

 

[Tunoku]

Woke up feeling even more sick than yesterday. I hate this time of the year. Something always gets me. No MtG for me today. Seriously, if you're sick, don't go and infect your LGS. You'll spend hours in an enclosed space with a bunch of other people, which is the perfect area for a virus to spread around. Always annoys me to see people who clearly should be resting at home there.

As a side note, I'm not a junior anymore, whatever the fuck that means. I guess people don't respond to your posts with "Yeah, whatever, JUNIOR" and the such. (Half my posts so far have been in this thread, you're all very nice and welcoming!)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You can make threads now and you won't be perma banned right away amymore.

 

[Santiako]

The cards I listed are punisher cards. There have been good ones in magic history.

You are mistaking what he means. The cards called punisher cards are the ones that let your opponent make a choice, it was red's thing in Judgement (Browbeat, Book Burning, Breaking Point, etc). They are always bad and a trap for new players, that see big numbers in cheap cards and think they're good.

Woke up feeling even more sick than yesterday. I hate this time of the year. Something always gets me. No MtG for me today. Seriously, if you're sick, don't go and infect your LGS. You'll spend hours in an enclosed space with a bunch of other people, which is the perfect area for a virus to spread around. Always annoys me to see people who clearly should be resting at home there.

As a side note, I'm not a junior anymore, whatever the fuck that means. I guess people don't respond to your posts with "Yeah, whatever, JUNIOR" and the such. (Half my posts so far have been in this thread, you're all very nice and welcoming!)

Yeah, whatever, MEMBER.

 

[Tunoku]

BTW, GP Orlando with Limited today: https://www.twitch.tv/magic

Important note: The coverage team consists of Sutcliffe, Cheon, and LSV. So this should be good.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

First game I had today were I truly felt the maindeck copters were fantastic in fish. Cycling dead cards, flying over and giving pseudo haste.

 

[OnPoint]

Anyone know if customer service is still replacing Expeditions that have a messed up edge on the border?

So no one knows?

 

[kirblar]

So no one knows?

(Ask them!)

It's an in-print set, it'd be weird if they weren't.

 

[y2dvd]

Pretty funny. The last opponent I played last night was fairly new and it was his first FNM. He actually played a solid RU deck. Anyways after the match I asked him if he opened anything good. He said just the Cyclonic Rift and the Mizzium Mortar he was playing with. I started unsleeving my lands to return to the store. He goes through the cards he didn't play with and ask me if this card is worth anything. I look up to see a Goyf lol.

Beginners luck I suppose. I told him it's only the most expensive and sought after card in the set. I told him what to do with the card because people will hound him for it and try to take advantage of a new player, including myself lol. Told him to by some sleeves, a deck box, storage box, and a trade binder especially for thay Goyf lol. Always great to see a new player.

 

[aidan]

So no one knows?

I had one replaced a few months ago without issue. It's still in print and in Standard, so I'd be shocked if they wouldn't replace it. Their customer support was quick to respond when I opened my ticket.

 

[OnPoint]

I had one replaced a few months ago without issue. It's still in print and in Standard, so I'd be shocked if they wouldn't replace it. Their customer support was quick to respond when I opened my ticket.

I'll open a case later today when I get home. Do you need proof of purchase or anything?

 

[aidan]

I'll open a case later today when I get home. Do you need proof of purchase or anything?

They do ask for proof of purchase, but I didn't have any (because, who the hell keeps receipts for booster packs or drafts?), and they were fine with that.

I insured my package when I shipped it off, and they emailed me a tracking code when the new card was in the mail. I was nervous sending off a $100+ card, bit the whole process was smooth and easy.

They also sent a booster of SOI.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I got playsets of all of the MMA fetches. Who wants to touch me?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm at a loss with my K&T deck

//Lands
1 Ash Barrens
1 Bant Panorama
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dark Depths
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Flooded Strand
6 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Island
1 Krosan Verge
6 Mountain
1 Naya Panorama
3 Plains
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Slippery Karst
1 Strip Mine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Vesuva
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

//Artifacts
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Torpor Orb

//Enchantments
1 Abundance
1 Back to Basics
1 Blood Moon
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Collective Restraint
1 Copy Enchantment
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Mana Breach
1 Mana Vortex
1 Pendrell Mists
1 Prismatic Omen
1 Propaganda
1 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Seismic Assault
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sterling Grove

//Instants
1 Beast Within
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Realms Uncharted

//Sorceries
1 Austere Command
1 Boundless Realms
1 Bring to Light
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Cultivate
1 Destructive Force
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life from the Loam
1 Replenish
1 Ruination
1 Scapeshift
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Subterranean Tremors
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Wargate
1 Wildest Dreams
1 Wildfire
1 Wrath of God

//Planeswalkers
1 Karn Liberated

//Creatures
1 Academy Rector
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Realmwright
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sun Titan
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ulvenwald Hydra

It can absolutely win but it's lacking consistency. I went up to 6 mountains so a scapeshift actually does something w/o realmwright or prismatic omen but the deck just doesn't play much red.
I was about to cut one of the 3 plains for an arid mesa but I do have a bunch of double white cards as well as land destruction effects. When I try to up the land count I'm looking at a blank as to cuts. It's 39 lands but 2 of those don't make any mana.

Easiest would be cutting 3 of the 6 mountain plan and replace them with the missing fetches. Arid Mesa, Misty Rainforest, Scalding Tarn.

I guess I should also be including Armageddon but that's so feelsbad.

 

[Ashodin]

Funny! I'm making a K&T deck too!

4COLOR MIRACLES

1 Arid Mesa
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
4 Forest
1 Halimar Depths
1 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mountain
1 Mystifying Maze
4 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple of the False God
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Aetherize
1 Arcane Melee
1 Banishing Stroke
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Blessings of Nature
1 Brainstorm
1 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Conch Horn
1 Cultivate
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Devastation Tide
1 Dream Cache
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farseek
1 Galvanoth
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Guttersnipe
1 Hidden Retreat
1 Hypersonic Dragon
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Ivory Tower
1 Jace's Sanctum
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis
1 Library of Leng
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Mirari
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Narset, Enlightened Master
1 Parallel Lives
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Propaganda
1 Reclaim
1 Revenge of the Hunted
1 Reverberate
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Salvage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Spy Network
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sylvan Library
1 Temple Bell
1 Terminus
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Thought Vessel
1 Thunderous Wrath
1 Time Warp
1 Trickery Charm
1 Trinket Mage
1 Twincast
1 Vanishment
1 Venser's Journal
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Wave of Reckoning
1 Young Pyromancer

 

[red13th]

I was going to make a Kynaios and Tiro deck but then I found out they only exist in foil. So disappointing. So I made a Zedruu deck instead.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Why are there so few lists with Meren that are playing CoCo? You'd think it's a creature heavy deck and you don't need many battlecruiser heymakers. The majority of the deck should be creatures and the majority of those creatures cost 3 or less anyways.

Funny! I'm making a K&T deck too!

4COLOR MIRACLES

That looks pretty great. Are the charmbreaker devils worth it? Such a slow card.

 

[Ashodin]

Why are there so few lists with Meren that are playing CoCo? You'd think it's a creature heavy deck and you don't need many battlecruiser heymakers. The majority of the deck should be creatures and the majority of those creatures cost 3 or less anyways.

That looks pretty great. Are the charmbreaker devils worth it? Such a slow card.

My deck is missing a few miracle spells (here's hoping to pull Bonfire and Temporal Mastery from our THIRD MM3 box, sheesh) and quality scry stuff like Soothsaying/Mystic Speculation

Charmbreaker is there merely for GY recur on the spells. Galvanoth is nuts in this deck

 

[Wulfric]

Yaasss, first win of the day. My opponent had to go out to dinner instead.

Also, it's impossible to find foil Noah Bradley Plains at this GP. SCG has them at $5 when they go for $3 online. And then I still need to get them signed...smh

 

[SigmasonicX]

So I'm going to try my hand at one of these "cards that should always be in Standard" lists we've been talking about. I'm operating under the assumption that these should be the bare minimum, and that it would be fine to sometimes make stronger cards for Standard. This is basically just going to be removal.

Red:
Lightning Strike - baseline 3 damage to creatures and players (and planeswalkers)
Shatter - artifact destruction
Seismic Rupture - 3 mana 2 damage to each nonflying creature, or perhaps a variation that deals 2 damage to each creature, which I'm amazed hasn't been made yet

Green:
Naturalize - artifact/enchantment destruction
Prey Upon - fighting, *shrug*
Bramblecrush - noncreature (planeswalker) destruction

White:
Pacifism - creature "removal"
Divine Verdict - destroy attacking or blocking creature
Banishing Light - nonland (planeswalker) removal

Blue:
Cancel - counter
Negate - counter noncreature (planeswalker)
Essence Scatter - counter creature

Black:
Duress - discard nonland noncreature (planeswalker)
Murder - destroy creature
New card:
Drain Strength - 2B
Instant
Choose one--
* Target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.
* Destroy target planeswalker.

Artifact:
Tormod's Crypt - Free graveyard exiling. Probably with a new name.

New cards:
Weaker Pithing Needle - 1
Artifact
As Weaker Pithing Needle enters the battlefield, name a card.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name cost (3) more to activate unless they're mana abilities.

Weaker Relic of Progenitus - 1
Artifact
Tap: Target player exiles a card from his or her graveyard.
(1), Exile Weaker Relic of Progenitus: Exile all cards from all graveyards.

It just sort of came out as three each.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I've done 3 MM2017 drafts and pulled 2x Scalding Tarn, a Verdant Catacombs, and a Voice of Resurgence. Pretty pleased with that.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I just realized I should be changing to snow basics for K&T because of

this card. It's a rampant growth that can get a Dark Depths

My deck is missing a few miracle spells (here's hoping to pull Bonfire and Temporal Mastery from our THIRD MM3 box, sheesh) and quality scry stuff like Soothsaying/Mystic Speculation

Charmbreaker is there merely for GY recur on the spells. Galvanoth is nuts in this deck

But you got access to such good recursion through Green already.