Support NeoGAF

[SigmasonicX]

Locket of Myths - 3
Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry 1.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, you may pay G. If you do, draw a card.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The death trigger Cascade guy is an example of what I mean. Cascade is a conceptually sucky ability no matter how you do it; the same thing applies to Aetherworks Marvel. Your opponent topdecking things is an inherently obnoxious part of Magic and giving it to a player for free and as a public action is fucking sucks because most of the time you don't actually know that your opponent topdecked something.

With this complaint specifically, it's like they looked at Hearthstone's success and learned all of the wrong lessons about variance.

 

[The Technomancer]

The first time someone cascades their Treasure Keeper into a Renegade Rallier to revive their Copter you're going to flip the table

 

[Simply Sarah]

If they were going for that angle, they would make it way more explicit about it. You guys are giving the people that write Magic's story waaaaaaay too much credit.

Like, the idea that it's a love triangle where Chandra is having deep conversations about her feelings and giving Gideon hugs in the basement while he obviously pines for her, but she's secretly and unknowingly in love with Nissa, who is struggling to come to terms with her growing romantic attraction to Chandra is so ridiculously far beyond the capabilities of the Magic writers.

Magic writers confirmed to be less talented than 16 year old girls writing fanfics.

With this complaint specifically, it's like they looked at Hearthstone's success and learned all of the wrong lessons about variance.

Huh. You know, I wonder if there's some truth to that. Thinking about it, a lot of the cards do kinda feel Hearthstoney.

 

[Angry Grimace]

All I'm saying is to ask yourself whether you think this piece of Magic fiction is about what it says on the tin or it's about something that has to be entirely derived from subtext.

 

[Crocodile]

I mean at the end of the day, are Vehicles any worse than Equipment? They seem actually easier to deal with no? You can argue about development issues (see the massive nerf Equipment have gotten over the years) but the concept seems similar enough to not engender such ire?

The first time someone cascades their Treasure Keeper into a Renegade Rallier to revive their Copter you're going to flip the table

 

[jph139]

I haven't read the story in weeks but I remember a lot of paragraphs dedicated to Nissa staring longingly at Chandra, so it felt like they were pushing that to me.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I mean at the end of the day, are Vehicles any worse than Equipment? They seem actually easier to deal with no? You can argue about development issues (see the massive nerf Equipment have gotten over the years) but the concept seems similar enough to not engender such ire?

Yes, unless equipments give haste you can always sorcery speed remove creatures they'd go and equip. Equipments also require a substantial repeated cost to equip generally so playing a creature by itself isn't enough.

 

[kirblar]

I mean at the end of the day, are Vehicles any worse than Equipment? They seem actually easier to deal with no? You can argue about development issues (see the massive nerf Equipment have gotten over the years) but the concept seems similar enough to not engender such ire?

They're a far far worse version of equipment.

 

[Crocodile]

Haste and a lack of continuous mana investments are certainly pros of the Vehicle card type but in formats where there is actually instant speed reactionary spells, the fact that the Vehicles themselves turn into creatures leave them vulnerable to a wide range of cards that don't directly effect Equipment (see every Black kill spell as one set of examples). Like a Sword of Feast and Famine is hard for a Black deck to deal with - you can't kill every creature they play before they equip it. However every Vehicle dies to Doom Blade

In the grand scheme of Magic, and against putting development aside since an overpowered card is overpowered regardless of card type, don't the pros and cons of Vehicles and Equipment basically balance out?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

but because it requires no mana investment and the black mage couldn't kill it during his turn spell queller just eats the doomblade

 

[kirblar]

Haste and a lack of continuous mana investments are certainly pros of the Vehicle card type but in formats where there is actually instant speed reactionary spells, the fact that the Vehicles themselves turn into creatures leave them vulnerable to a wide range of cards that don't directly effect Equipment (see every Black kill spell as one set of examples). Like a Sword of Feast and Famine is hard for a Black deck to deal with - you can't kill every creature they play before they equip it. However every Vehicle dies to Doom Blade

In the grand scheme of Magic, and against putting development aside since an overpowered card is overpowered regardless of card type, don't the pros and cons of Vehicles and Equipment basically balance out?

No, because Equipment at least fulfills a fantasy that works in context of the game.

Vehicles were an exercise in boxchecking to boxcheck.

 

[y2dvd]

Locket of Myths - 3
Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry 1.
Whenever you cast a creature spell, you may pay G. If you do, draw a card.

I know it's been a thing for awhile now, but it's so weird to me that G gets so many drawing cards and arguably better than U does in the latest sets lol.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Where's muh spoilers?!

We still don't have the red legend yet, right? Or are they going to not have one because of Pia in Kaladesh?

 

[Santiako]

I get that they want to make the planeswalker deck cards bad, but this is beyond terrible lol

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Right I'm curious about the Tezzeret fetch card since he might actually be playable in standard.

Where's muh spoilers?!

We still don't have the red legend yet, right? Or are they going to not have one because of Pia in Kaladesh?

we wouldn't have gotten Rishkar then because of Oviya

 

[Angry Grimace]

lol @ Terese Nielsen art in the Planeswalker deck

 

[Santiako]

Right I'm curious about the Tezzeret fetch card since he might actually be playable in standard.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

it kills emrakul I guess

 

[The Technomancer]

That doesn't seem...
Unplayable?

 

[Santiako]

Seems decent with clues and stuff.

 

[Crocodile]

but because it requires no mana investment and the black mage couldn't kill it during his turn spell queller just eats the doomblade

I mean by that logic all permanents are indestructible because your opponent always has the counterspell so why bother even playing removal?

No, because Equipment at least fulfills a fantasy that works in context of the game.

Vehicles were an exercise in boxchecking to boxcheck.

How are vehicles not a fantasy that work in the context of this game? Cars, Trains and even Airships are common in tons of fantasy media - especially media that takes a more steampunk or technological focus ala Kaladesh. Even in less technological planes you could flavor it as Wagons and Carriages and other stuff.

That and this has no bearing on their gameplay.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I get that they want to make the planeswalker deck cards bad, but this is beyond terrible lol

That's so painfully awful; even by historical standards of crap cycle artifacts it's atrocious.

lol @ Terese Nielsen art in the Planeswalker deck

Ugh, why? What a complete and utter waste.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Not going to lie, I'm half tempted to make a super shitty Mono-Green Storm deck with Aether Revolt. Greenbelt Ravager+Dork that needs Energy+ AetherFlux Reservoir is a 1 turn combo.

 

[Santiako]

Atog is back, in gremlin form!

He's trying to eat a masterpiece Sol Ring lol

 

[Crocodile]

Guess who's back, back again

From Gathering Magic

EDIT: fuck you guy above me

Seems decent with clues and stuff.

This is shockingly decent :O

 

[Glix]

I get that they want to make the planeswalker deck cards bad, but this is beyond terrible lol

There is a lot of value in this set from artifacts that just kind of sit out in play.

But still... 5 to cash it in is pretty awful.

This card seems like a land that makes a colorless mana and comes into play tapped and then they changed it to an artifact at the last second lol.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I mean by that logic all permanents are indestructible because your opponent always has the counterspell so why bother even playing removal?

it was an example you always have to play around in standard right now because your opponent dictates the timing. The same is true for equiping but that costs mana making holding up a counter much more difficult.

 

[Santiako]

Insane uncommon for limited.

Improvise, ETBs 2 thopter tokens.

 

[Simply Sarah]

While I'd have preferred to have had actual Atog, it's nice to see an old friend back in spirit even if not in name.

 

[Santiako]

Why the hell are they slow dripping the spoilers today? It's the last goddamn day of spoilers, they should be doing like 8 cards an hour or something.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Strictly worse than Atog because you can't sac it to Atogatog.

 

[Lucario]

Too early to spec, but keep an eye on Walking Ballista. It's a solid card in a format with so many pushed X/1s, and with the lack of hype it's getting, could get real cheap before release.

Testing it in a token shell now. Deck is still soft to vehicles, but man is it nice to have the reach it provides. Also gives you a reliable way to pick off Selfless Spirit/Veteran Motorist, enables delirium in relevant decks, synergizes with Oath/Nissa/Rishkar, etc.

 

[Glix]

Can someone help me with a rules question. I don't understand why Brain in a Jar lets you can't sorceries as instants.

It specifically says you can can CAST the spell without paying its mana cost. But you still have to cast it, like a free spell. It's still a spell under normal rules, it can be countered, etc.

I understand how aether vial works, but in that case you are not "casting" the spell, you are putting it directly into play, it cannot be countered.

Was there some sort of errata? I don't understand.

 

[El Topo]

If it allows you to cast a spell it overrides the restrictions that otherwise exist, no?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Can someone help me with a rules question. I don't understand why Brain in a Jar lets you can't sorceries as instants.

It specifically says you can can CAST the spell without paying its mana cost. But you still have to cast it, like a free spell. It's still a spell under normal rules, it can be countered, etc.

I understand how aether vial works, but in that case you are not "casting" the spell, you are putting it directly into play, it cannot be countered.

Was there some sort of errata? I don't understand.

If an effect asks you to cast a spell at that very moment it overrides timing restrictions.

 

[Glix]

I see. I wasn't aware of that rule.

Thanks guys. Still annoys me, but thanks.

In related news, I'm trying to quit smoking cigs and I'm afraid to ever draft MTGO again because of it

:-(

 

[I am Error]

Someone having a rough number on how many cards are still left to be spoiled?

Edit: Google says about 80.

 

[Crocodile]

it was an example you always have to play around in standard right now because your opponent dictates the timing. The same is true for equiping but that costs mana making holding up a counter much more difficult.

None of this changes the fact that Vehicles are vulnerable to creature removal in a way Equipment are not. You kill the creature and the Equipment is still there to enhance the next creature. You kill the Vehicle and that problem is DONE.

Someone having a rough number on how many cards are still left to be spoiled?

MTG Salvation says there are 81 left to be spoiled

Spoiler

FWIW most of them are probably limited chaff and thus suck

 

[aidan]

None of this changes the fact that Vehicles are vulnerable to creature removal in a way Equipment are not. You kill the creature and the Equipment is still there to enhance the next creature. You kill the Vehicle and that problem is DONE.

lol

 

[Glix]

lol

Come on thats a silly answer.

Anyway, I path'd the vehicle.

 

[Santiako]

We are still missing 2 mythics (maybe 1) and some rares (including the red legendary and his/her/its expertise).

 

[Lucario]

Can someone help me with a rules question. I don't understand why Brain in a Jar lets you can't sorceries as instants.

It specifically says you can can CAST the spell without paying its mana cost. But you still have to cast it, like a free spell. It's still a spell under normal rules, it can be countered, etc.

I understand how aether vial works, but in that case you are not "casting" the spell, you are putting it directly into play, it cannot be countered.

Was there some sort of errata? I don't understand.

No eratta - Seeing "you may cast ~" as part of an effect resolving inherently removes timing restrictions.

For an example with old cards:

Spelljack does not cast the exiled spell as part of resolution, so it does not remove timing restrictions.

Mosswort Bridge casts the spell as part of the ability resolving. It's saying "hey, cast this now", which is enough to remove timing restrictions.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

None of this changes the fact that Vehicles are vulnerable to creature removal in a way Equipment are not. You kill the creature and the Equipment is still there to enhance the next creature. You kill the Vehicle and that problem is DONE.

I don't see the big difference considering in the latter scenario the creature remains.

 

[Glix]

No eratta - Seeing "you may cast ~" as part of an effect resolving inherently removes timing restrictions.

For an example with old cards:

Spelljack does not cast the exiled spell as part of resolution, so it does not remove timing restrictions.

Mosswort Bridge casts the spell as part of the ability resolving. It's saying "hey, cast this now", which is enough to remove timing restrictions.

That was a super awesome explanation, thank you.

 

[Ashodin]

Figures the one legend I want spoiled first is last

That must mean she is insane for equipment right??+??+?? J:

 

[traveler]

Even putting the gatewatch aside, they have major issues with characterization. Dovin Baan's is straight up hilarious. Like, I get it; he's azorius and his defining attribute is his ability to spot flaws, but they have the subtlety of a hammer when actually translating that into a real character. It's not his defining attribute; it's his whole character. That's it. And he's so relentlessly focused and impossibly attentive to it that it just comes off as comically ridiculous. Baan noticed an issue with Baral's trajectory and took the time to lecture him on proper safety installations? Like, really WotC?

Edit: Oh man, we actually got a Nielsen art this set and it went to a commander deck?!?!?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

why did Baan recruit them again?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Someone having a rough number on how many cards are still left to be spoiled?

Edit: Google says about 80.

Not many. I think we have all of the Mythics already (and none of them are good, so no Mythic lottery), and the only conspicuously missing card is the Red Legend and Red Expertise.

Even putting the gatewatch aside, they have major issues with characterization. Dovin Baan's is straight up hilarious. Like, I get it; he's azorius and his defining attribute is his ability to spot flaws, but they have the subtlety of a hammer when actually translating that into a real character. It's not his defining attribute; it's his whole character. That's it. And he's so relentlessly focused and impossibly attentive to it that it just comes off as comically ridiculous. Baan noticed an issue with Baral's trajectory and took the time to lecture him on proper safety installations? Like, really WotC?

Like I said, all of these characters act like caricatures of a Mark Rosewater Color Pie article. I don't buy the idea that there's a ton of relevant subtext or hidden meanings. In this article, Chandra straight up lampshades how she's impulsive and doesn't think about stuff (because she's red, duh), and Gideon straight up says the same thing.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Even putting the gatewatch aside, they have major issues with characterization. Dovin Baan's is straight up hilarious. Like, I get it; he's azorius and his defining attribute is his ability to spot flaws, but they have the subtlety of a hammer when actually translating that into a real character. It's not his defining attribute; it's his whole character. That's it. And he's so relentlessly focused and impossibly attentive to it that it just comes off as comically ridiculous. Baan noticed an issue with Baral's trajectory and took the time to lecture him on proper safety installations? Like, really WotC?

That's kind of the point with Baan. He's intentionally a one-note character. It's similar to (but less extreme than) how Shadowblayde with ay is very intentionally the kid trying to be edgy and who instead comes off as embarrassing and ridiculous.