A Serious Man
Member
So what's the consensus on Kaladesh? I watched BBD win Worlds and then had to totally check out due to work/life.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Probably the worst Standard ever.
Vehicles wouldn't be so bad if there were tricks or hate to deal with them. I mean aside from the obvious splash damage decent artifact hate could do, they could always do something flarvorful like this.
While I wish Aether Revolt had something like this, I have a feeling it's too soon for them to have realized the lack of answers was a problem and we won't starts seeing any until Amonkhet at the soonest.
_________________________
Forced Ejection 1W
Instant
Target Vehicle neither receives nor
deals combat damage this turn.
Draw a card.
Mayday -- MAYDAY!
_________________________
Forced Ejection 1W
Instant
Target Vehicle neither receives nor
deals combat damage this turn.
Draw a card.
Mayday -- MAYDAY!
_________________________
While I wish Aether Revolt had something like this, I have a feeling it's too soon for them to have realized the lack of answers was a problem and we won't starts seeing any until Amonkhet at the soonest.
Imperfected
Member
I think the main problem is that they were reluctant to print cards that are specifically "anti-vehicle" because they would be completely dead outside of the block, and sideboard cards at best unless every in-block deck ran vehicles.
As a result, they tried to make the anti-vehicle cards more "general" utility sort of cards, but the problem with that is that the play cycle of vehicles doesn't really open up any particularly interesting general interactions, right? Like, what can you do? "Destroy target tapped creature and target artifact creature" at instant speed? I mean, it works, but aside from the target restriction on the value portion it isn't even that explicitly "anti-vehicle" as it is just "anti-Kaladesh".
So, you know: you either print cards that are auto-dead outside the block and risk being dead in a lot of match-ups even inside the block, you print cards that have just huge amounts of artifact hate on them, or you do neither and vehicles end up being boring and mostly non-interactive. I'm not sure Option #3 wasn't the best of the bunch.
(Aside from hidden Option #4: never print vehicles in their current form to begin with.)
As someone who primarily plays limited, I love vehicles. They add a lot of interesting decision-making in terms of combat and when to use your removal. For constructed, I'm not that big on them. Cultivator's Caravan is a cool design, but the rest of the ones that see play in constructed are pretty annoying.
Joe Molotov
Member
Gonna get serious about Modern this year. I need to start buying staples. First goal, get a playset of Noble Hierarchs.
Absolutely stellar limited set. Best one since KTK.
charlequin
Banned
Yep, this is exactly, exactly my position. The weird insistence on killing off all the cast is just so bizarre (especially given how now they're all the way in the opposite direction of keeping people alive for brand equity) and the characters are just an awful fit for the story they're in. It's like putting the crew of the Enterprise into Hellraiser.
Yeah, frankly I think Copter is dragging the whole mechanic down. Cultivator's Caravan is a cool card. Skysovereign and Cruiser are great, fair, and fun cards in Vintage. Vehicles work very well in the limited format at a certain frequency.
For those who weren't around at the time, this is actually a lot like the issue with equipment in Mirrodin -- i.e. it's a new artifact mechanic which provides a very efficient board presence that's difficult to get rid of normally, and as a result it's overpushed and awkward to start with.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Vehicles are fine. I enjoy playing with them in casual and limited, the only two formats I personally engage with
The easiest solution would be artifact hate. But it hits so much relevant stuff right now that they seemed reluctant to print any. Even something like "Destroy target non-creature artifact" at instant speed and a decent cost would be incredibly useful here. But there's nothing worth playing that fits that description.
I don't think vehicles are the biggest issue in standard, I'm just zeroing in on them for example's sake
charlequin
Banned
Yeah I think overly poor answers are pretty consistently the problem with everything bad in the current Standard environment.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Hah so close. It'll likely have to do.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Improvise feels like a bad idea...
Stop. Making. Cost. Reduction. Mechanics
Stop. Making. Cost. Reduction. Mechanics
it doesn't really allow you to bypass the triple blue unlike convoke... idk.
Ooccoo
Member
How so? UUU is a huge as you can't pay colored costs unlike Chord. Best you can do is probably tutor for Lotus Bloom. It'll shine in Commander though.
Ooccoo
Member
The improvise cards are like SUPER safe. Unless they print something crazy, it's perfectly fine. Affinity for Artifacts isn't a problem from a design perspective.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
did they really have to add a 3rd U when it doesn't work like convoke?
It's like poetry, it rhymes.
Joe Molotov
Member
UUUgu~
I like the 1 mana vehicle. It's probably not even playable in limited, but it's something different from the other ones we have seen
Improvise is boring to the point where maybe they shouldn't have done it.
There IS precedentfor a 3 mana Disenchant being standard playable, but, uh, it was this
So yeah, we are still super fucked if they make a single Artifact that's really good in this set.
Improvise is boring to the point where maybe they shouldn't have done it.
There IS precedentfor a 3 mana Disenchant being standard playable, but, uh, it was this
So yeah, we are still super fucked if they make a single Artifact that's really good in this set.
Yes because they know what they are doing is something that has led to broken cards before so they decided to make it an Intro Pack rare intentionally so they don't run the risk of needing to ban cards
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That vehicle should have been a grocery store on the go. Get it, 7/11
there is a spot between chord and this, they already were taking steps to prevent the former and while an artifact set making a ton of creatures remains easier than artifacts.
Ooccoo
Member
I like the 1 mana vehicle. It's probably not even playable in limited, but it's something different from the other ones we have seen
Improvise is boring to the point where maybe they shouldn't have done it.
There IS precedentfor a 3 mana Disenchant being standard playable, but, uh, it was this
So yeah, we are still super fucked if they make a single Artifact that's really good in this set.
Yes because they know what they are doing is something that has led to broken cards before so they decided to make it an Intro Pack rare intentionally so they don't run the risk of needing to ban cards
Red might get something this set.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ughhh I just wish the Dreadnaught had Trample. Without it its almost certainly a trap, but I'm still going to be tempted by "well its not like I usually have a 1 drop anyway..."
Any set is fine to jump into, especially now that blocks are 6 months instead of a year. If you give a shit about the story it's not that hard to go back and read the old stuff, and playing limited will give you a mixture of both Kaladesh and the new set.
If you know the basics of Magic and have played other card games before and know the main differences in their rules from Magic (ie, knowing that you can only attack the other player, and not their creatures), you should be able to show up at your stores pre-release and have a good time.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
is it even that good in commander? Most commonly played artifacts are already mana rocks and triple of one colour isn't that simple in tri coloured decks or more.
It takes a bunch of hoops to jump through to become particularly great.
It's so dumb that Red doesn't have a Lightning Strike right now
It's so dumb that Red doesn't have effective small creatures right now
It's so dumb that Red doesn't have even bad artifact removal (like Shatter)
Red winning those 2 Pro Tours killed the color in Standard forever
Colourless Time Walk.
Hmm, since it exiles it might not be overpowered.
Side note, does anything else think it's really clunky how multiple Energy symbols are used when it gets past four or so?
It's so dumb that Red doesn't have a Lightning Strike right now
It's so dumb that Red doesn't have effective small creatures right now
It's so dumb that Red doesn't have even bad artifact removal (like Shatter)
Red winning those 2 Pro Tours killed the color in Standard forever
Not sure if you're mocking me or agreeing with me. Lightning Strike would help stop copter shenanigans. :/
And yeah, I guess Wizards didn't want red winning anymore PTs lol.
Works nicely with Fetchlands in Modern.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm in love, kills grim flayer delirium or not. Kills copter, I won't have to run galvanic bombardement anymore.
This is awesome.
the best removal that modern has gotten in a LONG TIME. I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited to play this in faeries that you have no idea.
Infinite Stars
Member
Fatal push is literally amazing for modern. Fetches turn it into a 1 mana kill Virtually anything in the format.
Best since the format's inception. Easy top 3 behind bolt and path. Card is seriously amazing.
Dismember is also real good though. I might put that over it.
brainzelda
Member
Yup. I play exclusively Limited and thank God that removal spell is rare.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
it's uncommon
Gonna order 12 or so right away. I had trouble getting enough unlicensed disintegration and Aether Hubs and such.
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