The entire Trials process seems designed to find and murder PWs.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There was some kinda Planeswalker fallout once where they stopped coming to the plane for some reason.
Ravnica story was weird they had teardrops for mana IIRC.
Well he's basically turned it into a soul factory from what we can see, and a city is far easier to control than an entire world. The current set-up requires minimal oversight and involvement as they keep churning out champions.
The first Magic book ('Arena') had a similar idea, where they held this big arena competition every year and the winner got to be the apprentice of a planeswalker, or so they thought.
In reality the guy used it to murder unwelcome competition.
I mean, he's already getting dissidents just from this one city. Imagine how many he'd have with a whole plane of people?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Christ how is $200 a year for competitive Hearthstone at all reasonable without a secondary market and differing formats?
Have to say I'm far more interested in the lore of this plane than I have been for some time. Kaladesh was a miss for me because it just seemed so generic and artifact based - it would have been so much better with a stronger Indian cultural element. Inistrad was Inistrad, but they totally failed to create a sense of mystery or suspense over what was happening (although I did like the very, very end when Emrakul intervened). And Battle for Zendikar was.... let's leave that one.
Infinite Stars
Member
For all the bitching Magic gets about prices, at least Magic has 3 guarenteed tiers of rarity per pack.
Fuck Hearthstone for having 4 tiers and being completely random in pack distribution while also being the most Stingy conversion ratio. Like, there's no reason why I should need to scrap 4 Legendaries to make one I want. It's especially dumb with them having put Quests at Legendary rarity because "We've got to have money"
Simply Sarah
Member
I mean, last time he tried to lord over an entire empire it didn't end very well for him and that was back when he was back when his power was at its apex.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
at the same time you can get any number of rarities in packs of Hearthstone and packs cost half of MTG packs as well. There's also no pity timer with MTG.
what exactly are we talking about here wrt to competitive?
Oh no! Is your save okay in the cloud at least?!?
charlequin
Banned
Thinking about Hour of Devastation with a shard subtheme: definitely the current draft setup (221) makes it much easier to introduce a multicolor element in the second set than it would have been in the 211 or 112 formats, but you also can't really do something on the order of Khans, much less Alara, in terms of how thoroughly you make the environment about multicolor cards. My called shot here is they take a FRF approach and leverage hybrid to let them include 3-color cards without having to do everything you need to do to actually support playing tons of different 3-color gold cards.
Maro did mention that they intentionally went for the "Egypt as a living vital place" angle rather than the "Egypt as an ancient place" angle with the set, though.
Based on what we know that was also most likely an existing place that Bolas cleared out and remade in his own style.
Yeah I was thinking about how Bolas' setup with Amonkhet is incredibly similar to the setup he had going on Dominaria way back in the day with the Empire of Madara.
Maro did mention that they intentionally went for the "Egypt as a living vital place" angle rather than the "Egypt as an ancient place" angle with the set, though.
Based on what we know that was also most likely an existing place that Bolas cleared out and remade in his own style.
Yeah I was thinking about how Bolas' setup with Amonkhet is incredibly similar to the setup he had going on Dominaria way back in the day with the Empire of Madara.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't follow Hearthstone closely enough to know, but someone threw that figure out in a gaming side thread so I asked if it was accurate, thinking I'd get a half dozen responses saying "nah more like $50 if you put in some time" but then three people replied saying "that's about right"
I'm actually not sure, but a recent save should be backed up online via PS+. I think the power supply crapped out, so that shouldn't have affected local saves either. Just sucks because I barely used my PS4 this year until Nier and Persona and haven't finished either.
Anyway, I'm debating whether to go draft on Friday or play some modern. Or both. How was Aether Revolt limited, I barely played it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I saw that as well but if we're talking FNM lvl competitive it's very well possible to play multiple tier 1 decks at next to no expense. I've paid something like €10 total on Hearthstone.
But if we're talking about going to hearthstone tournaments that's hardly possible like that as you need 4 or 5 decks.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I mean, that's not contradictory. At the height of the New Kingdom, Egypt as a unified nation was pushing at 2000 years old.
I guess it depends on how much they get into the ancient stuff in Hours, considering that there does seem to be a deliberate effort to cover it up in-universe.
Random mostly-baseless theory: maybe the Invocations are supposed to depict the plane when Bolas was purging it. The Invocations depict a lot more conflict (especially amongst the Gods, who are portrayed peacefully in the normal cards). This could also be the lore justification for Wrath of God.
Probably not the case, but it would be kind of cool if it was!
Probably not the case, but it would be kind of cool if it was!
Ravnica is a pale imitation of Sigil, it's true. Mixed with Coruscant'a size
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wait so ravnica is just fantasy Coruscant? The plane is even worse than I imagined, especially with interplanar travel being restricted and kept sorta secret.
Always has been that way as far as our window into it has been concerned, and will still be when we get RTRTR.
Yep. I've always wanted to ask Maro about that. Ravnica really is Sigil through a magic lense, down to the different guilds / factions each running different aspects of the city and balancing each other out.
Although I though sigil did it far better with specific responsibilities and areas for the factions, and the philosophical angle.
charlequin
Banned
Sure, I just mean in terms of what gets conveyed on the cards.
I mean, Sigil is designed for people to spend hundreds of hours roleplaying characters' lives there in detail in ongoing RP campaigns while Ravnica is designed to let you design about 500 unique cards with an average of 1 line of flavor text apiece.
As someone who's played to varying degrees since just after the beginning, RAV block was definitely the best time to be playing, bar none.
They did not plan this spoiler season well at all, IMO.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I just can't buy that plane conceptually then. Coruscant sorta works because it's the center of an interplanar government. Any lack of resources can be offset through trade and conflict can be suppressed by outside force.
The cogs of ravnica have to work so well together no guild would be able to afford ambitions beyond their role. There would also have to be a kind of Old New York from Futurama.
That said Ravnica was a long time ago and maybe wizards did think all of this through.
Yeah, Ravnica was always just a plane completely covered in city. There are parts of the city that are mostly decayed and uninhabited now mostly roamed by Gruul.
Also, best plane by far. Original Ravnica block is my favourite block by a large margin and full Ravnica sealed (one booster of Ravnica, Guildpact, Dissension, Return, Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze each) is one of the best things I've ever played.
Also, best plane by far. Original Ravnica block is my favourite block by a large margin and full Ravnica sealed (one booster of Ravnica, Guildpact, Dissension, Return, Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze each) is one of the best things I've ever played.
Infinite Stars
Member
Well, to be fair, it's hard for Magic to sell "Economics of Civilization" in cards. Like, we know the Golgari/Selesyna serve as the food makers of Ravnica iirc(There's numerous references to Farming on Golgari cards/Selesyna is literally "Temple Garden"), we know Boros/Azorius serve as the "government" of Ravnica, Izzet/Simic serve as the technology sector of Ravnica, Dimir/Orzhov as the mafia. Rakdos/Gruul are the outcasts, but tbf that's kind of what makes them tick.
I mean, there's Food, governing bodies, etc. The only real issue is Space and non-growable items which can be explained away by "Magic", for as dumb as it sounds.
Also, the two times we've been on Ravnica have both been once-in-a-generation conflicts, with the periods surrounding them being peaceful(as much as it can be)
There is. Golgari have taken over those levels for food and death management.
Original Ravnica was mindblowing at the time. Extremely popular near release and reveal. The guilds inspired a brand loyalty and identity marker that was only heard of from the colors themselves. The fact that they added symbols that represented each guild that felt like an amalgamation of the two colors just clinched it for me.
It, like all other "planes" are planets. Whole globe and everything. The way the multiverse is shaped however is more like layers of paper laid on top of each other. Planeswalkers can travel between each "paper" which is a different plane. Now the actual position of each "plane" planet in its universe is different, but the mana linking them creates a "tunnel" through the blind eternities (space and astral space) that Planeswalkers can get through quickly to each spot.
Ravnica is a city all over.
Short of post-apocalyptic Otaria Dominaria and pre-apocalyptic Mirrodin, yeah.
The meditation plane is absolutely another place Bolas remade in his style.
From mtgswiki
Being a pocket plane (meaning it basically is just a span of land) with a unique feature that it shapes itself to whoever is there, it makes sense there would be bolas horns.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
In OG Ravnica they used to be the cleanup crew IIRC.
The scale of conflict certainly was bigger but they set up a third of the guilds to be permanent trouble makers in Gruul, Rakdos and Simic.
3 of the players in the struggle were long lived as well. The guildless conflict has been long brewing as well and Boros, Orzhov and Azorius are needed for a reason.
The roles are also uneven, Selesnya and Golgari are essential for life while Boros, Azorius and Orzhov are formed by the needs of society.
It's hard to discuss these because parts of those were retconned in the return.
Isn't Theros flat, though? I has an edge of the world and everything. Flat dish with Nyx wrapping all around it. And I know that Tarkir doesn't have any bodies of water bigger than lakes, though I guess it could just be a very dry planet.
And I thought Serra's Realm was more or less just infinite clouds, but I dunno if that really counts.
Speaking of Otaria-
Was there ever a *lore* reason given for Odyssey block to have no elves/goblins/etc, but then Onslaught to be full of them? I know the real reason is that they had little/no interblock planning back then, just wondered if they papered it over with story. Also: I read all the Onslaught books and can't remember this being covered.
Serra's Realm was an artificial plane unlike all the planes we're discussing here. They were much smaller generally, and without their creators fell apart. It also cost a lot of magic to keep one going.
Are they bestowed by the grace of Niv-Mizzet? No.
Ravnica is missing the key element that made Sigil work - the Lady of Pain. A completely neutral overseer of the city. She didn't get involved in any of the politics or workings of the city, but stepped in whenever something or someone got out of hand and dealt with them - usually by teleporting them into an infinitely large, inescapable maze. She was absolutely omnipotent within the city as well, so nothing and no-one (even major gods) could affect her. She was the safety valve that kept the factions in check and balanced.
Ravnica doesn't have that, so it is slightly unbelievable that the guilds have existed for so long in perfect balance whilst competing all the time. Especially given how some of the guilds are so random and disorganised, and their natural enemies are in charge of the city and have all the military and judicial might.
(I know they used to have the guild pact. But that just seems so fragile and so easy to get around)
Sounds like Niv-Mizzet to me.
Yeah, I was gonna say, that's kinda what the guildpact is for, and they've even got a living embodiment in Jace. Of course, he doesn't exactly work as a safety valve for the city when he's off gallivanting around the multiverse having his own adventures.
The living guildpact needs to be someone that can't just fuck off of the plane whenever they feel like it. And they need to be crazy powerful and not tied to one specific color of mana.
charlequin
Banned
I'm gonna go with donut-shaped, like a Final Fantasy world.
Otaria is about the size of North America; Odyssey takes place in the northern half while Onslaught takes place in the south.
You could kill or stand up to Niv.
I mean it was either that or the Grand Coliseum drew people from other continents.
Let's not speak of what the fuck happens in Scourge.
Thanks much!
Nah. the Lady of Pain was, within Sigil, literally the most powerful being in existence in the multiverse. Nothing could even harm her. She only spoke once in a few generations, and whenever she appeared it generally meant someone was about to go walkabouts. She could teleport you into one of her mazes wherever you were in the city at any time (without being there). There was no way to interact with her on any level, and anyone who tried would generally be flayed alive.
She wasn't a character in any normal sense - immoveable force of nature.
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