Support NeoGAF

["God's Beard!"]

The fact that you have a U shaped mana curve isn't something that particularly makes your deck better.

Mana cost:

1. 8 cards
2. 7 cards
3. 7 cards
4. 6 cards
5. 6 cards(if you include murderous cut)
6. 2 cards

The mana curve is very smooth and deliberately so. That's why I kept making posts about not playing such and such 3-drops.

Please read my decklist before making judgments about it. I've extended at least that much courtesy to you.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";131486036]Mana cost:

1. 8 cards
2. 7 cards
3. 7 cards
4. 6 cards
5. 6 cards(if you include murderous cut)
6. 2 cards

The mana curve is very smooth and deliberately so. That's why I kept making posts about not playing such and such 3-drops.

Please read my decklist before making judgments about it. I've extended at least that much courtesy to you.[/QUOTE]No, this is based on your decklist from 2 pages back, which I put into deckstats. Banishing Light is not cast on curve, as you stated on the last page. Your mana curve actually looks like this taking to account only spells you actually want to cast "on curve":

 

["God's Beard!"]

No, this is based on your decklist from 2 pages back, which I put into deckstats. Banishing Light is not cast on curve, as you stated on the last page. Your mana curve actually looks like this taking to account only spells you actually want to cast "on curve":

If that's true, then Thoughtseize should be spread all over the place since I cast in on turn one almost never.
Even if you assume that chart is the way I play my spells, it's still pretty smooth except that I have slightly fewer cards that I'm hoping to cast on turn 3 than 4.

Not exactly a U when it's still a smooth slope down with a tiny dip.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";131488424]If that's true, then Thoughtseize should be spread all over the place since I cast in on turn one almost never.
Even if you assume that chart is the way I play my spells, it's still pretty smooth except that I have slightly fewer cards that I'm hoping to cast on turn 3 than 4.

Not exactly a U when it's still a smooth slope down with a tiny dip.[/QUOTE]

Thoughtseize is typically expected to be cast on curve; its a card that is better the earlier you cast it since they have more options and cards.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Thoughtseize is typically expect to be cast on curve; its a card that is better the earlier you cast it since they have more options and cards.

I'm not going to put 14 untapped black sources so I can cast thoughtseize a turn earlier. Thoughtseize isn't so inflexible that it has to be jammed turn 1 in every deck. I play it turn 2 alongside a mana dork or later to clear the way for my expensive cards.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";131489180]I'm not going to put 14 untapped black sources so I can cast thoughtseize a turn earlier. Thoughtseize isn't so inflexible that it has to be jammed turn 1 in every deck. I play it turn 2 alongside a mana dork or later to clear the way for my expensive cards.[/QUOTE]

Thoughtseize is a better card than Elvish Mystic, though.

The same argument can be applied to Mystic since you need more sources of untapped green mana if you really want to cast it on curve, but you need to have colors available to you to cast your black spells and there's much less multi-colored fixing that comes in untapped vs. RTR standard and Mystic just gives you more green (despite the fact that the only multi-green spell you have is Courser). The other problem with Mystic is the fact that even when you successfully ramp AND have all your colors, you're increasingly likely to basically nothing to attack into Wingmate Roc, which dramatically lessens the value of that card.

I'm not saying your deck is bad, I'm just saying I don't think Mystic has the same level of synergy it does in a Mono-Green deck or in Temur monsters (where a very large percentage of the spells are green).

 

["God's Beard!"]

The other problem with Mystic is the fact that even when you successfully ramp AND have all your colors, you're increasingly likely to basically nothing to attack into Wingmate Roc, which dramatically lessens the value of that card.

Fleecemane Lion exists almost purely to bluff Wingmate Roc. You declare combat and if they kill it you get to monstrous. If they block you get to monstrous. If they take it or chump, you get to cast wingmate. The fact that both cost 5 is insane.

I am considering bringing Abzan Charm back in so I can bluff attack with Elvish Mystic and Courser, though. But the nice thing about Mystic is that once it's done its job, I don't have to care anymore. I can just suicide it when worst comes to worst because the cost of having a mystic is so low.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Just to add to the conversation, but I tried replacing mystics with Thoughtseize in my jund planeswalkers deck about a month back. Even with it being a better card, I would have preferred a mystic every time in each instance of testing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just to add to the conversation, but I tried replacing mystics with Thoughtseize in my jund planeswalkers deck about a month back. Even with it being a better card, I would have preferred a mystic every time in each instance of testing.

Sure, but the mana distribution in the most common Jund Walkers deck I've seen is:

I think that's also a function of ramp being a much more important issue in a Planeswalker focused deck since all of the 1-3 drops are green and not really expected to attack. The deck doesn't do all that much beyond spot removal and ramp until it hits one. The Abzan midrange deck plays enough threats that to not really need to ramp super fast.

 

[kirblar]

PWs/Monsters wants to accelerate out big threats before you can properly react to them.

 

[aidan]

Elvish Mystic dies to Doom Blade, therefore it's a terrible Magic: The Gathering trading card.

 

[Haly]

It double dies to Electrolyze. That's a 3-for-1 advantage.

 

[aidan]

And it's vulnerable to Lifebane Zombie. And Counterspell. Also, it's not an Island (the best Magic: The Gathering trading card.)

 

[ultron87]

It also doesn't pitch to Force of Will.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It also is strictly worse than Llanowar Elves

 

[Haly]

Imagine if Wizards ever printed a U 1/1 mana dork.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Elvish mystic is also a great way to break serve on the draw if your opponent(grimace) isn't playing it in the mirror.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Forest us a terrible card too. You can turn it into a creature with nissa and then is dies to doom blade. And it taos for only one color of mana.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Imagine if Wizards ever printed a U 1/1 mana dork.

Noble Hierarch is the closest you're gonna get. I wonder if they'll ever reprint BoP.

 

[OnPoint]

Noble Hierarch is the closest you're gonna get. I wonder if they'll ever reprint BoP.

Rosewater seems opposed to green having flying without reason.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Rosewater seems opposed to green having flying without reason.

Even he says BoP doesn't really matter.

 

[Haly]

Blue favoritism, obviously. Blue gets to take Green's Hexproof, but god forbid Green take Blue's flying.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It'll come back. They're waiting for the right time to make a big deal about it and give it new art.

 

[ultron87]

Frogs of Paradise G

T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Deathtouch

1/1

Mythic Rare

 

[keeblerdrow]

I'd buy that for a dollar!

Make it steal from every pie piece. Give it "when a creature that was damaged by frog of paradise dies this turn, you may exile it instead. If you do, discard a card."

 

[aidan]

Frogs of Paradise

T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Deathtouch, Hexproof

If ~ leaves the battlefield or is discarded, place it on the battlefield under your control. It gains haste until the end of turn.

Cycling G

1/1

Mythic Rare

Fixed.

 

[Wichu]

On a different note, I've been thinking about the future of Khans block, seeing as only one set of the block is wedge-focused (which leaves the rest of the block completely unknown).

My prediction is that Fate Reforged will be an enemy-colour set, and Louie (Dragons of Tarkir?) will be a shard (i.e. the other five three-colour combos) set. My reasoning:

Although Khans is the only wedge set in the block, I think the multicolour theme is likely to continue - I can't see them making the block themes inconsistent like that.

Khans and Louie will never be drafted together - this was one of the keystones of the block's design. This means their themes are very likely incompatible in some way, such as wedges vs shards.

Fate Reforged is designed to be drafted with both sets; in particular, the draft formats are FRF/KTK/KTK and Louie/Louie/FRF. Notice that FRF is drafted before Khans, but after Louie. Enemy colours in FRF and shard colours in Louie fit this perfectly - each enemy colour pairing is in two wedges, but only one shard. This gives you choice in FRF/KTK/KTK, while drafting it last means being locked into a single shard isn't a problem in Louie/Louie/FRF.

The block has been officially stated to be a time-travel block, with many people speculating that Louie will be set in an alternate timeline of Tarkir where dragons still survive. Nothing says 'alternate timeline' like switching between wedges and shards (just ask Numot and his Planar Chaos buddies).

I think morph is likely to remain throughout the block, being quite a complicated yet interesting mechanic - one of morph's primary functions in Khans was to make three-coloured cards easier to play, so a shard set would allow it to reprise that role. I wouldn't be surprised (though I would be a bit sad) to see morph as the only mechanic from Khans that returns in FRF, making way for five new mechanics in Louie.

Interestingly, although enemy-colour duals are much more powerful in a wedge block, we got ally-colour fetches in Khans. Coupled with the fact that Wizards have stated that they intend to complete dual land cycles within blocks, I suspect this is because they're saving enemy-colour duals for an enemy colour set - Fate Reforged.

We've already had a shard block, but notice that one of the things that's been pointed out about the wedges in Khans is that they're not focused on their central colour - doing the same thing for shards would lead to mechanics very different than the Alara block's.

Finally, Sarkhan and Ugin are both connected to Nicol Bolas in some way. For being such a major character in the story, Bolas hasn't made a personal appearance in a (non-core) set for six years; I think it's likely we'll see him again soon. A shard set on a dragon-themed plane, where two of his nemeses have already appeared (three if you count Sorin, who might not know of Bolas's involvement on Zendikar) would be the perfect place for Bolas to turn up again.

/speculation

 

[aidan]

My prediction is that Fate Reforged will be an enemy-colour set, and Louie (Dragons of Tarkir?) will be a shard (i.e. the other five three-colour combos) set.

Zendikar fetches.

[/boner]

 

[SigmasonicX]

One thing to keep in mind is that Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged will rotate out before "Louie" and "M16". M15 had enemy painlands and Khans has ally fetchlands. I imagine that for each two-set block (which "Louie" and "M16" will be treated somewhat as), they will want both ally and enemy color dual lands of a certain type. They seem to be treating the painlands and fetchlands as sort of being the same type, that is to say, lands that can be "tapped for mana" on any turn they are brought in. Given that, I expect that the enemy fetchlands will be in "Louie" and the ally painlands will be in "M16". Unless they print the enemy fetchlands in Fate Reforged and then print a different set of lands in "Louie".

 

[OnPoint]

My prediction is that Fate Reforged will be an enemy-colour set, and Louie (Dragons of Tarkir?) will be a shard (i.e. the other five three-colour combos) set. My reasoning:
/speculation

My theory is FR will be colorless and DoT will be the allied wedges. I think FR will be a time-travel themed set, and DoT will be an altered-reality version of KoT. It would account for "color shifted' fetches.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Man, WOTC are such great trolls. Making fetch happen while simultaneously making people speculate whether fetch is happening.

 

[Wichu]

My theory is FR will be colorless and DoT will be the allied wedges. I think FR will be a time-travel themed set, and DoT will be an altered-reality version of KoT. It would account for "color shifted' fetches.

A colourless-themed set would be difficult to pull off - there isn't really much design space there. I do think there will be colourless stuff at some point in the near future, with Ugin's involvement (including Ghostfire Blade specifying 'colourless' rather than 'face-down') and a return to Zendikar imminent, though.

 

[OnPoint]

A colourless-themed set would be difficult to pull off - there isn't really much design space there. I do think there will be colourless stuff at some point in the near future, with Ugin's involvement (including Ghostfire Blade specifying 'colourless' rather than 'face-down') and a return to Zendikar imminent, though.

You say that... but what if they do a set based in The Blind Eternities or something.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Fate Reforged will certainly have an enemy color theme at least, in order to not make Fate Reforged - Khans of Tarkir - Khans of Tarkir a miserable draft. I don't think "Louie" will have shards, since Wizards seems committed to making the clan names the new names for the wedges. Bringing back the clans but applying them to shards seems to go against that.

 

[Angry Grimace]

A colourless-themed set would be difficult to pull off - there isn't really much design space there. I do think there will be colourless stuff at some point in the near future, with Ugin's involvement (including Ghostfire Blade specifying 'colourless' rather than 'face-down') and a return to Zendikar imminent, though.

I imagine FR will have some kind of colorless theme given its about the colorless-Ugin.

If and when the Eldrazi come back, I tend to doubt they will all be colorless. Its just too narrow of a space for a block.

Fate Reforged will certainly have an enemy color theme at least, in order to not make Fate Reforged - Khans of Tarkir - Khans of Tarkir a miserable draft. I don't think "Louie" will have shards, since Wizards seems committed to making the clan names the new names for the wedges. Bringing back the clans but applying them to shards seems to go against that.

They could always just not have multicolored cards in that small set since it would never be drafted on its own.

 

[Takuhi]

Yeah, I'm expecting some colorless themes in Fate Reborn, but I'm sure it will also have a heavy dragon theme after all the build up. They certainly didn't reprint Crucible of Fire in Magic 2015 for the benefit of the weak assortment of dragons we have right now.

And Maro's comments about how he can't explain why the guilds are focused around an allied color instead of the shared enemy strongly suggest that it's so they can pivot to a shard and maintain their core color.

 

[Angry Grimace]

jugglervr said: Storm scale rating for creatures bigger than eldrazi?

I’d say an 8. We’d have to figure out how to do it in a way that didn’t cause problems.

(Worldspine Wurm is still in Standard, technically)

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, I'm expecting some colorless themes in Fate Reborn, but I'm sure it will also have a heavy dragon theme after all the build up. They certainly didn't reprint Crucible of Fire in Magic 2015 for the benefit of the weak assortment of dragons we have right now.

And Maro's comments about how he can't explain why the guilds are focused around an allied color instead of the shared enemy strongly suggest that it's so they can pivot to a shard and maintain their core color.

Maro's theme week columns are specifically about the clans and not the wedge combination. Definitely points to them being altered/gone at the end of this. (A "real" BizarrAlara in the distant future is probably likely.)

 

[Haly]

Frogs of Paradise

Deathtouch, Haste, Hexproof

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Cycling

Madness 0

1/1

Mythic Rare

I improved upon the base design.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I improved upon the base design.

Such color pie fail:

Frogs of Paradise

Deathtouch, Haste, Hexproof

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Cycling

Madness 0

1/1

Common

 

[aidan]

Such color pie fail:

Not enough oomph, needs more versatility.

Frogs of Paradise

Deathtouch, Haste, Hexproof

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Cycling

Madness 0

0/6

Placed in land-slot of all boosters.

 

[OnPoint]

Maro's theme week columns are specifically about the clans and not the wedge combination. Definitely points to them being altered/gone at the end of this. (A "real" BizarrAlara in the distant future is probably likely.)

Good because I hate these wedge names.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not enough oomph, needs more versatility.

Try harder.

Frogs of Paradise

Creature - Frog

Deathtouch, Haste, Hexproof, Bands with Other Frogs

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

A deck may contain any number of cards named Frogs of Paradise. If Frogs of Paradise would be put into a graveyard, exile it, and then put it onto the battlefield.

Cycling

Madness 0

1/1

Common

 

[SigmasonicX]

Frogs of Paradise

Legendary Creature - Frog

Deathtouch, Haste, Hexproof, Vigilance

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Cycling

Madness 0

Each creature assigns combat damage equal to its toughness rather than its power.

The "legend rule" does not apply to this creature.

0/6

Gotta make it Commander friendly.

 

[aidan]

Try harder.

Still worse than Thoughtseize.

 

["God's Beard!"]

My Sorins arrived in the mail today and the dude even spotted me a free Emblem ^_^

SO GODLIKE

 

[acheron_xl]

Considering I was mostly done designing a set that revolved around wedges, morph and twobrid mana when they announced what's in Khans, I fully expect twobrid to be the 3rd set twist. That's my luck.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Paradise Lotus Amphibian

Artifact Creature - Ancestral Bird Frog

Flying, Infect

: Add three mana of any color to your mana pool.

Cumulative Upkeep - Draw three cards.

0/1

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";131521076]My Sorins arrived in the mail today and the dude even spotted me a free Emblem ^_^

SO GODLIKE[/QUOTE]

You need the Solemn Shredder alter.

 

[Haly]

Are you ready?

Frog of Paradise
Creature - Shapeshifter

(Spells without mana costs can't be played.)

Frog of Paradise is every color.

Deathtouch, Haste, Hexproof, Flying, Vigilance, Changeling

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Nonbasiclandcycling

Madness 0

(

can be paid with one of any colored mana or 2 life.)

1/1