Support NeoGAF

[OnPoint]

Wait, how do the Phyrexians planeswalk?

They don't... yet... but if someone were to PW there and get captured, who knows what they could do with that?

 

[ultron87]

Actually, nevermind. You just stop Garruk's transformation into a worse thing, but don't remove the curse.

Here are all the cutscenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ80L5MeLQU

The hell was that demon at the end, Ob?

Yeah. You take the Hedron that was binding him, so it is actually the player in DOTP's fault that he becomes "Unshackled". So that is cool.

 

[Haly]

What was the retcon, Haly?

Time Spiral was basically a comic book reboot.

They don't... yet... but if someone were to PW there and get captured, who knows what they could do with that?

Yawgmoth once captured a planeswalker (of the old type) and couldn't figure out how to duplicate the spark.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Wait, how do the Phyrexians planeswalk?



Looks like Ob, Yah.

They don't, really. They can sort of move towards Dominaria because Yawgmoth convinced a Planeswalker to open a permanent portal at one point (Urza and Mishra are also involved here). There was a thing where they had access to portals of some kind for a while, but I think this was retconned out because they don't appear to have this anymore. Its kind of the same thing where the Weatherlight could move through Planes, but you never see that kind of thing anymore.

New Phyrexia is a result of Karn planeswalking to Mirrodin and contaminating shit through the contaminating oil he was carrying.

 

[Zocano]

They don't... yet... but if someone were to PW there and get captured, who knows what they could do with that?

I figured.

Sorry, I forgot to ask how did they get to Mirrodin in the first place?

Edit: Well I got that answered, thanks.

 

[joelseph]

Want to build a weenie deck around spirit bonds, why I'm drawn to white weenies I will never know.

 

[Haly]

I figured.

Sorry, I forgot to ask how did they get to Mirrodin in the first place?

They didn't. Karn had a bit of the Phyrexian Oil on him, which is kind of like grey goo, and inadvertently infected Mirrodin with it.

Oh my god this is the nerdiest I have been in a long time.

 

[Zocano]

They didn't. Karn had a bit of the Phyrexian Oil on him, which is kind of like grey goo, and inadvertently infected Mirrodin with it.

Oh my god this is the nerdiest I have been in a long time.

So the Mirrodins were the blue squidwards in Prometheus.

 

[Angry Grimace]

They didn't. Karn had a bit of the Phyrexian Oil on him, which is kind of like grey goo, and inadvertently infected Mirrodin with it.

Oh my god this is the nerdiest I have been in a long time.

It seems like the "portal artifacts" have mostly been retconned out, because they don't seem to happen anymore the way they did pre-Mending storylines.

 

[Haly]

Well Time Spiral fundamentally changed the nature of the multiverse so they can just handwave that away as well.

"It was Teferi's fault."

Of course it is Wizards, of course it is.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I don't think portals have been retconned out so much as no living character of relevance yet knows how to make them. IIRC, part of the story of Scars of Mirrodin was that Venser was trying to create inter-planar ships.

 

[bigkrev]

The Pyrexians used a bunch of portals when the Invasion happened, which means at some point they did have the technology to do so

 

[SigmasonicX]

Well yes, but no one knows how to make them anymore.

 

[kirblar]

The New Phyrexians are culturally distinct and don't have access to their predecessors' technology.

 

[OnPoint]

Time Spiral was basically a comic book reboot.


Yawgmoth once captured a planeswalker (of the old type) and couldn't figure out how to duplicate the spark.

I forgot that was the nature of Time Spiral. I actually hate that they did that, but it's the world we live in.

As for Yawgy trying than failing, it would fit right in to the theme of Phyrexia if they were to try and figure out how to at least do SOMETHING with a spark. Not necessarily replicate it, but at least abuse the person/being who had it.

I don't think portals have been retconned out so much as no living character of relevance yet knows how to make them. IIRC, part of the story of Scars of Mirrodin was that Venser was trying to create inter-planar ships.

So, did Venser ever succeed before dying?

The New Phyrexians are culturally distinct and don't have access to their predecessors' technology.

I always thought they knew of Yawgmoth for some reason. Is this not true? Even still, it would be a good story parallel even if it the events were independent of each other knowledge-wise.

 

[ultron87]

*reads Wiki entry on Phyrexia*

Old Magic story was so fucking metal.

Phyrexia received its own share of devastation when Urza assembled the collection of planeswalkers he called the Nine Titans and armed them with massive suits of power armor known as titan engines, planning a counter-attack on the Nine Hells. Once inside the plane, the planeswalkers unleashed havoc, hoping to destroy the chamber of. They were interrupted by the betrayal of Tevesh Szat, who killed his fellow planeswalker, Daria. Urza had a device implanted in each of the suits, a "kill rubrik," which could be tapped into by him, killing the occupant. Upon the expected treachery of Tevesh Szat, Urza activated the rubrik and killed Szat, sealing him in a Soul bomb, a powerful weapon that used the power of the soul inside to cause mass destruction. This would have been used to destroy Phyrexia, but Urza was convinced by angel-like Phyrexians to kill another of his companions, Taysir, using the same method he had on Szat. After this, he was taken to the Seventh Sphere to observe what was apparently his brother Mishra at the command of The Lord of The Wastes, who had been tortured for thousands of years in the hellish place. Next, he went to the Ninth Sphere to worship Yawgmoth himself, along with Gerrard.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I never really got why oldswalkers used powered suits and the like when they could already create entire planes and cast world-shaking magic.

 

[Haly]

I never really got why oldswalkers used powered suits and the like when they could already create entire planes and cast world-shaking magic.

In contrast to contemporary academic studies in literature, Brust has put forward what he called "The Cool Stuff Theory of Literature":

All literature consists of whatever the writer thinks is cool. The reader will like the book to the degree that he agrees with the writer about what's cool. And that works all the way from the external trappings to the level of metaphor, subtext, and the way one uses words. In other words, I happen not to think that full-plate armor and great big honking greatswords are cool. I don’t like 'em. I like cloaks and rapiers. So I write stories with a lot of cloaks and rapiers in 'em, 'cause that’s cool. Guys who like military hardware, who think advanced military hardware is cool, are not gonna jump all over my books, because they have other ideas about what's cool.[3]

Brust elaborated, "The novel should be understood as a structure built to accommodate the greatest possible amount of cool stuff."[2]

.

 

[The Technomancer]

I always thought they knew of Yawgmoth for some reason. Is this not true? Even still, it would be a good story parallel even if it the events were independent of each other knowledge-wise.

They're aware of him in a vaguely religious sense, but IIRC they don't actually have any memories of old Phyrexia

 

[SigmasonicX]

They also have vague knowledge of the monstrosities they used to create:

 

[Angry Grimace]

I didn't realize the Liliana of the Veil art was super controversial. I asked about it on another forum and people started flipping out.

I thought being a temptress was her character?

 

[SigmasonicX]

That's like her least revealing card art. There has to be more to it than you're implying.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's like her least revealing card art. There has to be more to it than you're implying.

People have been telling me its horrible because its too sexy and cheesecake-y.

 

[kirblar]

People have been telling me its horrible because its too sexy and cheesecake-y.

This is probably because they're horrible people.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Actually, nevermind. You just stop Garruk's transformation into a worse thing, but don't remove the curse.

Here are all the cutscenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ80L5MeLQU


Yeah. You take the Hedron that was binding him, so it is actually the player in DOTP's fault that he becomes "Unshackled". So that is cool.

I should probably comment on this. I do have to say, I like the style of the cutscenes, and the stinger with Ob makes more sense in context. It's kind of weird that the player is the one who unshackles him, but I guess in canon, it'll be Jace who does that.

 

["God's Beard!"]

How are your draws with only 11 creatures?

Really, really good. The only reason to play a second creature is if you're expecting a liliana or flare coming down in the next turn. You have about an 80% chance of getting a creature in your opening hand, and you don't want many more than that.

The whole deck functions on two or less mana, so you want the highest chance possible to play multiple spells a turn as soon as you can. That's why I included Taste for Mayhem, it's really easy to dump your hand and +4/+0 for 1 mana is super efficient. Because of the low mana and low interactivity, the deck mulligans absurdly well compared to other decks in the format. It's not unrealistic to win off a 4 or 5-card hand.

It's also possible to crap out on a bad hand on occasion, but it's still more reliable than having Kor Spiritdancer turn on your opponent's removal.

 

[OnPoint]

They're aware of him in a vaguely religious sense, but IIRC they don't actually have any memories of old Phyrexia

Well of course not, they were born from a drop of oil or whatever. But what if they somehow tap into memories, or come across old texts, or something crazy. Would be kind of interesting.

 

[blindrocket]

Happy birthday, blindrocket, and sweet mat!

Thanks!

Its too good in blue at 2 mana. Snapcaster is just kind of too good.

Maro agrees it should have probably been red, but they just let the winner of the invitational design it and leave it the way it was because he wanted it to be blue (of course he wanted it to be blue).

Totally too good, but I love it. Heh.

They've admitted that he was quite the mistake.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The Invitational cards all started as absurd overpowered nonsense from what I've read, and then some of them stayed as absurd overpowered nonsense. When Bob designed Dark Confidant, it originally let you use the ability every turn, not just your own turn.

This is probably because they're horrible people.

I finally coaxed it out of them. They don't like it because its sexist and wrong to have any sex appeal in Magic and all fanservice in everything is bad and this is totally not a hyper-sensitive position.

 

[f0rk]

You have to have some very good cards every now and then or the game would get boring. As long as it's not degenerate which I don't think Snapcaster is.

 

[kirblar]

I finally coaxed it out of them. They don't like it because its sexist and wrong to have any sex appeal in Magic and all fanservice in everything is bad and this is totally not a hyper-sensitive position.

"Why aren't them men just women" is unfortunately a common position.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I guess I just don't have a problem with sexy elf girls or whatever in my Magic. Its not a big deal unless you want to nitpick.

 

[kirblar]

I guess I just don't have a problem with sexy elf girls or whatever in my Magic. Its not a big deal unless you want to nitpick.

If they're the only thing or very predominant, it's a problem. But they specifically don't do that in the majority of the cards, and Liliana is a high-profile exception.

 

[ironmang]

Ya there are plenty of women in mtg art that are perfectly fine. Noble Hierarch, Elspeth, Thalia, Mother of Runes, and other high profile cards.

 

["God's Beard!"]

So in my bogles deck my red splash can effectively play five colors.

But I'm worried I'm going too deep with some of these options:

• Ghor Clan Rampager: super efficient buff and a solid trick, but it's not permanent. Dodges Inquisition and countermagic.
• Orzhov Charm: 2 mana might be too much to cut Path for suspicious protection from liliana at best.
• Selesnya Charm: again, cutting Path for a card that doesn't remove many creatures makes this a worse Ghor Clan in most situations. Does dodge Liliana much better than Orzhov Charm, though. Probably better than Unflinching Courage.
• Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek: Meh

 

[Angry Grimace]

Ya there are plenty of women in mtg art that are perfectly fine. Noble Hierarch, Elspeth, Thalia, Mother of Runes, and other high profile cards.

Actually, everyone got angry and said that the Elspeth, Sun's Champion art was "too sexy."

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ok, I think this list works out.

5-color Bogles lol

 

[BlewHedgehog]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";122390248]So in my bogles deck my red splash can effectively play five colors.

But I'm worried I'm going too deep with some of these options:

• Ghor Clan Rampager: super efficient buff and a solid trick, but it's not permanent. Dodges Inquisition and countermagic.
• Orzhov Charm: 2 mana might be too much to cut Path for suspicious protection from liliana at best.
• Selesnya Charm: again, cutting Path for a card that doesn't remove many creatures makes this a worse Ghor Clan in most situations. Does dodge Liliana much better than Orzhov Charm, though. Probably better than Unflinching Courage.
• Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek: Meh

[/QUOTE]

It feels like Keen Sense would accomplish the same task as trimming lands in providing you with consistent gas. Selesnya Charm is good at combating Liliana at instant speed, but you'd need to hold mana up for it, and turns 2 and 3 are important for you to be applying pressure with rather than sitting back waiting to blow out a Liliana. The creature you have in play might not even be worth casting Liliana for at that point in the game. Ghor-Clan is interesting, but I don't believe it's as efficient as it seems in this deck when one mana can buy you Ethereal Armor's effect. There's no way either of these cards are a better option than Unflinching Courage.


Link me if I missed the previous post explaining some of this. What problem scenarios are you running into that justify adding colors?

 

["God's Beard!"]

It feels like Keen Sense would accomplish the same task as trimming lands in providing you with consistent gas. Selesnya Charm is good at combating Liliana at instant speed, but you'd need to hold mana up for it, and turns 2 and 3 are important for you to be applying pressure with rather than sitting back waiting to blow out a Liliana. The creature you have in play might not even be worth casting Liliana for at that point in the game. Ghor-Clan is interesting, but I don't believe it's as efficient as it seems in this deck when one mana can buy you Ethereal Armor's effect. There's no way either of these cards are a better option than Unflinching Courage.


Link me if I missed the previous post explaining some of this. What problem scenarios are you running into that justify adding colors?

Unflinching Courage is the worst spell in the deck. 3 mana is way too much. Keen Sense is also annoying since it doesn't have immediate impact like the other spells. Selesnya Charm is nice because it gives the 2 power + trample buff when I don't need a creature, and it can kill crazy buffed affinity creatures or whatever. It's just way more flexible than Courage, especially since I'm gonna be losing Canopies and Gemstone mines and might not evenr get to three in general.

Boros Charm might be crazier than Selesnya since double strike is just the nuts, but I like the options on Selesnya.

Basically, the base mana for Bogles is already close to supporting prismatic cards. I just have to cut the pain and shocklands for rainbow lands and I don't really take more damage than before, but my options open WAY up. Inflexibility is a bit of an issue with bogles, so I'd like to keep the pressure even higher than the standard versions with red enchantments and invisible stalker, but diversify my options at the same time.

 

[BlewHedgehog]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";122414557]Unflinching Courage is the worst spell in the deck. 3 mana is way too much. Keen Sense is also annoying since it doesn't have immediate impact like the other spells. Selesnya Charm is nice because it gives the 2 power + trample buff when I don't need a creature, and it can kill crazy buffed affinity creatures or whatever. It's just way more flexible than Courage, especially since I'm gonna be losing Canopies and Gemstone mines and might not evenr get to three in general.

Boros Charm might be crazier than Selesnya since double strike is just the nuts, but I like the options on Selesnya.

Basically, the base mana for Bogles is already close to supporting prismatic cards. I just have to cut the pain and shocklands for rainbow lands and I don't really take more damage than before, but my options open WAY up. Inflexibility is a bit of an issue with bogles, so I'd like to keep the pressure even higher than the standard versions with red enchantments and invisible stalker, but diversify my options at the same time.[/QUOTE]

You may be right about Unflinching Courage being the first cut, but it serves as a good top of your curve. The life gain allows you to be proactive and race any Affinity draw save for the craziest Inkmoth/Plating starts. Even if you manage to Charm Inkmoth Nexus in this case, your opponent still has Cranial Plating and all you've been doing is attacking for like 3 a turn with a near-naked Bogle. I think it's best to just save that job for Path so Bogles can stay on the offensive.

Boros Charm, on the other hand, sounds awesome.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I just don't think 3 mana enchantments help me in any matchup. There's too many games where even getting to 2 mana can be awkward, and most cases I'd rather play 2 spells or one spell and crack a canopy then spend my whole turn to get two extra damage.

As for Boros Charm, It's probably good.

Typically I've found that a good draw is 0->4->7-10 damage. With boros charm we can do this:

• Bogle
• umbra/Rancor + Umbra/Armor = 3-5 damage
• 1 mana enchantment + boros charm = 5-7 x2 = 10-14 damage

but what's more likely is this:

• Bogle
• Umbra/armor + Umbra/rancor = 3-5 damage
• Daybreak/madcap = 6-8 damage
• Boros Charm = 12-16 damage

or

• land
• stalker
• umbra/rancor + daybreak/madcap = 5-6 damage
• ? + boros charm = 10-16 damage

So we can expect to get 2-6 extra damage on curve from Boros Charm. It seems solid if we can get trample or stalker through, but I don't think the deck can run more than two copies, and it probably has to replace the Selesnya Charms.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

If Boros Charm is getting you any less than four damage, you're doing it wrong...

 

[ElyrionX]

What's the best tool or app to use to construct and analyze decks (mana mix and curve, cards types, etc) and to look up cards?

I heard Decked Builder is pretty good and I will check it out on my iPad when I get home today. MTG Familiar on my phone is also pretty great for card lookups but it doesn't have any deck building functions. I heard Decked Builder is pretty good on the phone too but I'm currently on the Android and will be switching to the new iPhone as soon as that releases so I don't want to double dip for now.

What about on the PC? Is there anything good available?

 

[sgjackson]

A friend of mine started playing Magic about a week ago and is interested in getting better. She has a grasp on the basics of the rules and whatever she might have picked up from me explaining the decisions I'm making, why I'm making them, and why the rules work to allow me to do some things that aren't completely intuitive. I feel like learning rules esoterica, figuring out if you're the beatdown, card advantage, and how to approach certain board states are the next steps in learning, but I'm pretty sure just linking her decade and a half old Mike Flores articles would be confusing. How would you approach teaching someone in this position?

She's definitely interested in learning to draft, so I feel like no matter what good draft streams and videos are going to be a part of it. I'm particularly fond of Numot and once M15 gets online I'm definitely pointing her towards his prerelease and release sealed streams, but any other suggestions on this front would be great.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I feel like Nummy moves too fast for someone who's not already into drafting. I kinda thing that you'd be better off with a CFB video or something.

 

[OnPoint]

Actually, everyone got angry and said that the Elspeth, Sun's Champion art was "too sexy."

This kind of stuff is stupid. None of the women characters are underdressed enough, regularly enough for this to be something to bitch about. Liliana's style of dress fits her character. People need to lighten the fuck up.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

I have a question that only some fellow Magic Players could answer.

I have a co-worker with a binder of Revised (only) cards. Besides a handful of Swords to Plowshares, Demonic Tutors, and Sol Rings, the only thing of any interest are 10 dual lands. There are 2 Tropical Islands, 3 Plateaus, 1 Bayou, 2 Badlands, and 2 Savannahs.

Theres also a handful of fun older cards like Armageddon, Birds of Paradise, Howling Mine in a binder with about 700-800 commons/uncommons from that set.

All the cards are in NM quality.

He wants to offload the whole binder of cards. I know that duals have spiked recently, but I'm not willing to offer that kind of crazy money ($150 for one Tropical Island is nuts).

What would be a fair offer for the set? This is not an attempt to sell, but rather I just want to get a feel of the actual worth of these cards as opposed to store prices.

 

[ultron87]

This kind of stuff is stupid. None of the women characters are underdressed enough, regularly enough for this to be something to bitch about. Liliana's style of dress fits her character. People need to lighten the fuck up.

Elspeth is doing one of those dumb poses that only female character on comic book covers ever do where they twist at uncomfortable angles to show off their face and figure at the same time. It really isn't a big deal though, especially since Magic has done very well about this kind of thing for awhile. I don't really remember anyone making a particularly large stink about, besides just going "hey, her pose it kind of silly."

 

[The Technomancer]

Elspeth is doing one of those dumb poses that only female character on comic book covers ever do where they twist at uncomfortable angles to show off their face and figure at the same time. It really isn't a big deal though, especially since Magic has done very well about this kind of thing for awhile. I don't really remember anyone making a particularly large stink about, besides just going "hey, her pose it kind of silly."

Its especially weird because her costume, especially on that card, isn't sexy, revealing, or even particularly form fitting. She's twisted at an odd angle, but her entire appearance is straight-faced fantasy female soldier

 

[joelseph]

My love for white weenies continues

MAIN
4x Boros Elite
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Dryad Militant
4x Leonin Snarecaster
4x Azorius Arrester
4x Precinct Captain
4x Vanguard of Brimaz
4x Preeminent Captain
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos

4x Ajani's Presence

21x Plains

SIDE
4x Brave the Elements
4x Spirit Bonds
2x Revoke Existence
1x Devouring Light
1x Glare of Heresy
1x Mass Calcify
1x Pillar of Light
1x Rest in Peace