Support NeoGAF

[Angry Grimace]

I just think its too cute. Goldfishing turn 4 wins and actually producing them aren't the same thing. I was less than impressed by the creator's belief that Thoughtseize wasn't a problem. It's Thoughtseize and the entire deck revolves around one card that isn't a one drop.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I just think its too cute. Goldfishing turn 4 wins and actually producing them aren't the same thing. I was less than impressed by the creator's belief that Thoughtseize wasn't a problem. It's Thoughtseize and the entire deck revolves around one card that isn't a one drop.

I goldfished the deck multiple times assuming that my opponent opened with thoughtseize. As it turns out, it actually didn't hurt as bad as you'd think.

No, the real problem is that the deck's engine is too easily disrupted on board. "Storm" decks shouldn't rely on sticking permanents across multiple turns to win. People are going to be blowing up mana dorks anyway; hoping they let yours stick is silly.

 

[inthrall]

I goldfished the deck multiple times assuming that my opponent opened with thoughtseize. As it turns out, it actually didn't hurt as bad as you'd think.

No, the real problem is that the deck's engine is too easily disrupted on board. "Storm" decks shouldn't rely on sticking permanents across multiple turns to win. People are going to be blowing up mana dorks anyway; hoping they let yours stick is silly.

This was my impressions as well. Thoughtsieze works best against decks which rely on tempo of some form, as opposed to decks built around a draw engine. Cards like Crackling Doom had the biggest impact on your game plan, so unless you draw really well its hard to recover

 

["God's Beard!"]

Oh, I knew that, I was just kind of mostly explaining the reasoning behind the statement (since I mostly just said Deathdealer sucks in response to GB rather than explaining why).

I kid you not, my reaction to your post was "wtf is deathdealer". Which shows how low on my radar he is lol

Great limited card, though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130480319]I kid you not, my reaction to your post was "wtf is deathdealer". Which shows how low on my radar he is lol

Great limited card, though.[/QUOTE]

A lot of people in threads on the midrange Junk deck seem to really love it, but I think the deck is pretty white focused and it seems like an annoying mana sink. Its a midrange deck - if someone wants to downfall my 2-drop, then okay.

I'm considering Reaper of the Wilds if that Sagu Mauler is a thing. I don't really know what else in the Junk toolkit really deals with it.

 

[inthrall]

I'm considering Reaper of the Wilds if that Sagu Mauler is a thing. I don't really know what else in the Junk toolkit really deals with it.

Ajani pumps work on most of your dudes, but leave a lot of room for being blown out.

 

[kirblar]

Temur Ascendancy -> Sagu Mauler

*Make Trollface*

 

[Angry Grimace]

Ajani pumps work on most of your dudes, but leave a lot of room for being blown out.

I don't much like Reaper's 4/5 vs. the 5/5, but Reaper also has Deathtouch + conditional Hexproof. I think I'm going to have to go with Reaper and just deal with the 4 vs. 5.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Sagu Mauler sucks though. At six mana you could just minus elspeth.

I don't think Temur wants fatties like that. It's probably gonna be slightly more of a resilient aggro than midrange.

 

[Kacar]

Saw this mill combo, its pretty awful but still.

Midnight guard, ornithopter and altar of the brood in play. Cast retraction helix on midnight guard, bounce and replay ornithopter endlessly.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Man, my deck feels better already with the Fleecemanes and improved(less painful) manabase. Goldfishing at the very least is working out much better. Taking significantly less damage and using fewer cards because of how easy it is to monstrous the Lion.



Creatures(22):

• 4x Elvish Mystic
• 4x Sylvan Caryatid
• 4x Fleecemane Lion
• 4x Courser of Kruphix
• 4x Siege Rhino
• 2x Genesis Hydra

Planeswalkers(8):

• 2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
• 2x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
• 2x Nissa Worldwaker
• 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Spells(6):

• 2x Thoughtseize
• 4x Banishing Light

Land(24):

• 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
• 4x Windswept Heath
• 1x Mana Confluence
• 3x Llanowar Wastes
• 2x Caves of Koilos
• 4x Standsteppe Citadel
• 1x Temple of Plenty
• 1x Temple of Silence
• 6x Forest
• 1x Plains

Sideboard(15):

• 4x Mistcutter Hydra
• 4x Nyx-Fleece Ram
• 2x Thoughtseize
• 2x Arbor Colossus
• 2x Setessan Tactics
• 1x Stain the Mind

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130494200]Man, my deck feels better already with the Fleecemanes and improved(less painful) manabase. Goldfishing at the very least is working out much better. Taking significantly less damage and using fewer cards because of how easy it is to monstrous the Lion.



Creatures(22):

• 4x Elvish Mystic
• 4x Sylvan Caryatid
• 4x Fleecemane Lion
• 4x Courser of Kruphix
• 4x Siege Rhino
• 2x Genesis Hydra

Planeswalkers(8):

• 2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
• 2x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
• 2x Nissa Worldwaker
• 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Spells(6):

• 2x Thoughtseize
• 4x Banishing Light

Land(24):

• 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
• 4x Windswept Heath
• 1x Mana Confluence
• 3x Llanowar Wastes
• 2x Caves of Koilos
• 4x Standsteppe Citadel
• 1x Temple of Plenty
• 1x Temple of Silence
• 6x Forest
• 1x Plains

Sideboard(15):

• 4x Mistcutter Hydra
• 4x Nyx-Fleece Ram
• 2x Thoughtseize
• 2x Arbor Colossus
• 2x Setessan Tactics
• 1x Stain the Mind

[/QUOTE]

I really don't get Genesis Hydra here. The curve of the deck is pretty high and the Hydra itself will always be a below the curve beater.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I really don't get Genesis Hydra here. The curve of the deck is pretty high and the Hydra itself will always be a below the curve beater.

Not to mention the feel-bad (blowout?) of putting a planeswalker down, and not being able to activate it before it gets blown up.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not to mention the feel-bad (blowout?) of putting a planeswalker down, and not being able to activate it before it gets blown up.

I just think given the strategy he's going for, more Nissa would probably be better; he's running 8 manadorks so lands getting blowed up isn't as much of a concern and on average Nissa's manlands are probably bigger and more trampley than Genesis Hydra.

 

[ThLunarian]

Rakshasa 2-drop guy seems underrated to me. He's basically an unblockable 2-drop that gives you things to do with your mana if you don't already have them. I'm not really interested in black/green decks right now, but if you made B/G Aggro or something then he'd be a fine turn 2 play

 

[kirblar]

Rakshasa 2-drop guy seems underrated to me. He's basically an unblockable 2-drop that gives you things to do with your mana if you don't already have them. I'm not really interested in black/green decks right now, but if you made B/G Aggro or something then he'd be a fine turn 2 play

The issue is more that he requires heavy mana investment, doesn't play defense well, and gets quickly outclassed by the gigantic 4 drops (Rhino, Polukranos, Reaper) running around in G/B.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Rakshasa 2-drop guy seems underrated to me. He's basically an unblockable 2-drop that gives you things to do with your mana if you don't already have them. I'm not really interested in black/green decks right now, but if you made B/G Aggro or something then he'd be a fine turn 2 play

You have to invest mana in him every time you want him to be good.

 

[Kacar]

Yea if it had just been like pay G and he gets +2/2 and B for regenerate he would be awesome.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Wasn't that the problem with Reaper too? It needs mana put into it to be good, and it's outclasses in raw stats by Polukranos. Why are people talking about Reaper like it's suddenly good? (Or am I just missing something?)

 

[daemissary]

I haven't totally immersed myself in the spoilers and I need to pick a clan to preregister for the prerelease...what clan does everyone think will be best for sealed?

 

[The Technomancer]

I haven't totally immersed myself in the spoilers and I need to pick a clan to preregister for the prerelease...what clan does everyone think will be best for sealed?

Temur probably. Maybe Abzan

 

[Angry Grimace]

I haven't totally immersed myself in the spoilers and I need to pick a clan to preregister for the prerelease...what clan does everyone think will be best for sealed?

Abzan or Mardu. White is just too good.

 

[Negator]

How many people here would be interested in playtesting with Cockatrice? Is Cockatrice what all the cool kids are using?

I want to try out these new cards and see how they interact in actual games.

 

[kirblar]

How many people here would be interested in playtesting with Cockatrice? Is Cockatrice what all the cool kids are using?

I want to try out these new cards and see how they interact in actual games.

I think it's what everyone uses nowadays.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I really don't get Genesis Hydra here. The curve of the deck is pretty high and the Hydra itself will always be a below the curve beater.

Because it's a 2 for 1. Nothing gets me back from a bad position like Genesis Hydra. It also synergizes with Courser of Kruphix extraordinarily well. If I see a Banishing Light, I can grab it with the hydra and get an extra 3/3 out of the deal that I can buff with Sorin and Ajani. It means I can dig for a planeswalker on an empty board and still protect it. I can grab a Siege Rhino and get instant value. That kind of scaling card advantage is just massive. Even just having extra shuffle effects is great. Being able to drop an uncounterable planeswalker is insane.

I used to have 3 Hydras and a Liliana just so I could chain them together.

If you recognize that Wingmate Roc is a good card, then you have to know that Genesis Hydra is just better. Hell, I almost put in the Rocs for value with the Hydra but it's too conditional.

It's the glue that keeps my deck together and the pseudo-tutor makes me more comfortable with only having a couple of each of the cards on top of my curve.


No card in my deck has tested better than the Hydra. The Hydra is why I lose to mono green as a control player. It's the 3rd best green card after courser and elvish mystic.

 

[Negator]

Went ahead and set up Cockatrice. I'm totally not used to using this thing and will fumble around like an idiot trying to use it for a while.

Made an account and a KTK standard deck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130512404]Because it's a 2 for 1. Nothing gets me back from a bad position like Genesis Hydra. It also synergizes with Courser of Kruphix extraordinarily well. If I see a Banishing Light, I can grab it with the hydra and get an extra 3/3 out of the deal that I can buff with Sorin and Ajani. It means I can dig for a planeswalker on an empty board and still protect it. I can grab a Siege Rhino and get instant value. That kind of scaling card advantage is just massive. Even just having extra shuffle effects is great. Being able to drop an uncounterable planeswalker is insane.

I used to have 3 Hydras and a Liliana just so I could chain them together.

If you recognize that Wingmate Roc is a good card, then you have to know that Genesis Hydra is just better. Hell, I almost put in the Rocs for value with the Hydra but it's too conditional.

It's the glue that keeps my deck together and the pseudo-tutor makes me more comfortable with only having a couple of each of the cards on top of my curve.


No card in my deck has tested better than the Hydra. The Hydra is why I lose to mono green as a control player. It's the 3rd best green card after courser and elvish mystic.[/QUOTE]

Its a 2-for-1 in a scenario where you have 6 or more mana you're willing to completely tap out for and gamble that you get anything you can cast. I just can't envision a scenario where its actually better than just playing Nissa because for the same mana cost it doesn't do anything better than Courser of Kruphix or a Banishing Light.

It just seems like one of those God's Beard Pet Cards™. I seem to remember a similar argument in favor of Ashen Rider.

 

[kirblar]

Nah, Genesis Hydra is legit - it's a late game mana sink that is essentially Bloodbraid Elf on crack- and it's Bloodbraid Elf on Roids if you have Temur Ascendancy in play.

 

[phazedplasma]

What is this goldfish thing everyone is talking about. I feel dumb

 

[Angry Grimace]

What is this goldfish thing everyone is talking about. I feel dumb

It means playing against nobody and seeing how long it takes til you win. Its mostly something you see with aggro and burn decks because they rarely are all that concerned with how their opponent will interact with them.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Nah, Genesis Hydra is legit - it's a late game mana sink that is essentially Bloodbraid Elf on crack- and it's Bloodbraid Elf on Roids if you have Temur Ascendancy in play.

Genesis Hydra and Bloodbraid Elf are in different worlds. Bloodbraid Elf never misses, has haste and gets a bigger card for the same cost. A Genesis Hydra for 4 CMC is literally not worth casting. At 5, you might as well play Nissa herself. At 6, you have to ask yourself if you're going to get better value from this or See the Unwritten (really) or Elspeth. At 7, you might as well live the dream and cast Garrux, Apex Predator or even go up to Ashen Rider.

 

[Hero]

Genesis Hydra and Bloodbraid Elf are in different worlds. Bloodbraid Elf never misses, has haste and gets a bigger card for the same cost. A Genesis Hydra for 4 CMC is literally not worth casting. At 5, you might as well play Nissa herself. At 6, you have to ask yourself if you're going to get better value from this or See the Unwritten (really). At 7, you might as well live the dream and cast Ashen Rider or Garrux, Apex Predator.

Bigger card off of BBE? Eh?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Bigger card off of BBE? Eh?

For the same CMC.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Its a 2-for-1 in a scenario where you have 6 or more mana you're willing to completely tap out for and gamble that you get anything you can cast. I just can't envision a scenario where its actually better than just playing Nissa because for the same mana cost it doesn't do anything better than Courser of Kruphix or a Banishing Light.

It just seems like one of those God's Beard Pet Cards™. I seem to remember a similar argument in favor of Ashen Rider.

Since I'm not getting through here:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/creatures-in-standard-today-and-tomorrow/

"I got repeatedly smashed, that is, until I started building my decks to support Genesis Hydra
Genesis Hydra is an example of a creature that actually is good in a removal format like Standard. The creature itself is only half of the effect—what it does when you cast it is the other half. Creatures that have big impacts the turn you cast them are good for exploiting opponents who lean too heavily on their removal.
See how long your opponents can keep up when you force them to spend two removal spells on all of your creatures!"

-Reid Duke

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130526390]Since I'm not getting through here:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/creatures-in-standard-today-and-tomorrow/

"I got repeatedly smashed, that is, until I started building my decks to support Genesis Hydra
Genesis Hydra is an example of a creature that actually is good in a removal format like Standard. The creature itself is only half of the effect—what it does when you cast it is the other half. Creatures that have big impacts the turn you cast them are good for exploiting opponents who lean too heavily on their removal.
See how long your opponents can keep up when you force them to spend two removal spells on all of your creatures!"

-Reid Duke[/QUOTE]
I will eat a Genesis Hydra if one of them is maindecked in the top 8 of Pro Tour Khans.

 

[Haly]

How many cards are you planning to eat by the end of this yea Grimace???

 

["God's Beard!"]

I will eat a Genesis Hydra if one of them is maindecked in the top 8 of Pro Tour Khans.

If there are no Genesis Hydras in the top 8 of Pro Tour Khans of Tarkir I'll never post a decklist in this thread again.

 

[Angry Grimace]

How many cards are you planning to eat by the end of this yea Grimace???

Right now its Jace the Living Guildpact if a Counterburn deck becomes "good," which is kind of a vague standard, and Genesis Hydra if one is maindecked in the top 8 of PT Khans of Tarkir. The first bet is upgraded to Jace, the Mind Sculptor, if a Counterburn deck wins PT Khans of Tarkir.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130527077]If there are no Genesis Hydras in the top 8 of Pro Tour Khans of Tarkir I'll never post a decklist in this thread again.[/QUOTE]

That's kind of a dumb bet because then I can't yell at you about your weird pet cards. But there were no Genesis Hydras in the top 8 of PT M15 either.

 

[kirblar]

I will eat a Genesis Hydra if one of them is maindecked in the top 8 of Pro Tour Khans.

Don't forget the salt.

And stop making me defend GB!

 

[inthrall]

kirblar =/= kibler correct? I think that every time I see your username

 

[kirblar]

kirblar =/= kibler correct? I think that every time I see your username

Correct. It predates me knowing of his existence, lol.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It would have confused me as well if he didn't have a Kirby avatar.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The real Brian Kibler would just spend all of his time complaining about MODO and Thoughtseize.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The real Brian Kibler would just spend all of his time complaining about MODO and Thoughtseize.

Hard to blame him. They're both kinda bullshit.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Speaking of MODO, today is Flashback Drafts for Tempest block. I suggest you not bother doing them unless you like gambling for Wasteland AND you downed a fifth of whisky ahead of time because Tempest block drafting is like getting elective eyeball surgery without anesthetic.

 

[sgjackson]

Drafted for the first time in over a year tonight. Got fourth with an aggressive GW deck that just had zero reach if I didn't draw one of my 3 Siege Wurms - I had multiple frustrating games where I just curved out and smashed someone down to 5 life or so and they stabilized and came back with higher card quality. A couple more decent removal spells or fliers probably would have improved my deck immensely, but as is I'm happy with the result.

 

[ElyrionX]

What are everyone's thoughts on Clever Impersonator? The card being able to copy anything (PWs and enchantments included) feels really powerful and versatile and there's got to be a shell somewhere that has this in its core. Sure, it can potentially be a dead draw but the lack of strong board wipes in Standard makes this less likely.

Not so sure about the card's place in Modern though. The 4 CMC feels like the biggest thing holding it back as it's probably a tad too slow for the format but just having the ability to copy another goyf and yet being versatile enough to copy other board threats make me think it might see some play.

I'm asking because I am considering preordering a playset. It's $15 for a mythic with the potential for price spikes.

 

[ultron87]

All I know is I need to copy a Karn to blow up a Karn at least once in my Magic career. I guess Garruk would work too. But Karn is way cooler.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Speaking of MODO, today is Flashback Drafts for Tempest block. I suggest you not bother doing them unless you like gambling for Wasteland AND you downed a fifth of whisky ahead of time because Tempest block drafting is like getting elective eyeball surgery without anesthetic.

I've done it (tempest block drafting that is). It's a special experience, one that I recommend for draft junkies who haven't drafted many old sets. You're right that it's not good. But it's worth doing once for kicks.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Personally, I can't wait to see who's eating which cards in the next little while...