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["God's Beard!"]

Yeah, my Abzan deck just feels so much cleaner without the Charms. Paying 4 life for a 3-mana sign in blood just sucks, and it doesn't even kill stormbreath dragon. The double counters aren't as cool without Brimaz so I just don't think my midrange is the deck for it.

Maybe a more aggressive Abzan would like it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130272347]Yeah, my Abzan deck just feels so much cleaner without the Charms. Paying 4 life for a 3-mana sign in blood just sucks, and it doesn't even kill stormbreath dragon. The double counters aren't as cool without Brimaz so I just don't think my midrange is the deck for it.

Maybe a more aggressive Abzan would like it.[/QUOTE]Interesting idea, and probably worth it. Abzan midrange's biggest problem is easily Stormbreath Dragon, and its best to not stock the deck with stuff that can't kill it. Seems like we want Murderous Cut in either 2 or 3 and Hero's Downfall.

What's your deck looking like after testing?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Interesting idea, and probably worth it. Abzan midrange's biggest problem is easily Stormbreath Dragon, and its best to not stock the deck with stuff that can't kill it. Seems like we want Murderous Cut in either 2 or 3 and Hero's Downfall.

What's your deck looking like after testing?

Not too different, but I'm considering dropping a painland and a temple for a second Sandsteppe Citadel and a forest. I wound up adding a Murderous Cut and a second Sorin in lieu of a third Nissa. The deck already moves through cards fast enough with Ajani, Courser and Genesis Hydra, so I'd rather have a good variety of cards to build value than always jamming on turn 3-4. Besides, Sorin is massive against aggro. Mainboarding 10 cards that gain life(14 if you count Genesis Hydra and Ajani) is super awesome.

I still don't think I want more than one Murderous Cut, the deck is a pile of resilient value cards and isn't good at putting things in the graveyard since our main removal is Banishing Light. Murderous Cut is great since I have expensive cards and can play two in a turn late game but otherwise it's not super necessary.

I'd only play a ton of removal if I was in Naya instead of Abzan, because Ajani and Genesis Hydra can draw me Chained to the Rocks. I'd rather just clear the path with thoughtseize and get rid of specific problems with banishng light while progressing my board every turn.

Creatures(18):

• 4x Elvish Mystic
• 4x Sylvan Caryatid
• 4x Courser of Kruphix
• 4x Siege Rhino
• 2x Genesis Hydra

Planeswalkers(9):

• 2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
• 2x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
• 2x Nissa Worldwaker
• 3x Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Spells(9):

• 4x Thoughtseize
• 4x Banishing Light
• 1x Murderous Cut

Land(24):

• 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
• 4x Windswept Heath
• 2x Mana Confluence
• 4x Llanowar Wastes
• 3x Caves of Koilos
• 3x Temple of Plenty
• 2x Temple of Silence
• 4x Forest
• 1x Plains

Sideboard(15):

• 4x Mistcutter Hydra - For the Jeskai control and Temur aggro decks
• 4x Fleecemane Lion - For any aggro, replacing Nyx-Fleece Ram
• 2x Drown in Sorrow - For red and black aggro
• 2x Arbor Colossus - For Stormbreath Dragon decks and mono-black aggro
• 2x Setessan Tactics - for opposing midrange decks and aggro
• 1x Stain the Mind - mirror-breaker for opposing midrange decks and anti-tech

Edit: also, the opportunity to minus Sorin and give the vampire 3 counters off of Ajani comes up more often than you'd expect with how fast the deck moves through cards in the mid game.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That Jeskai Ascendancy combo deck is hilarious

Spoiler

ly bad.

 

["God's Beard!"]

That Jeskai Ascendancy combo deck is hilarious

Spoiler

ly bad.

Weird shit coming out of nowhere like that due to a new format is exactly why I have Stain the Mind in my sideboard. I don't want to lose to something I've never seen, and I can study their deck after casting it.

But yeah, I'd name Burning Anger for sure.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130283033]Weird shit coming out of nowhere like that due to a new format is exactly why I have Stain the Mind in my sideboard. I don't want to lose to something I've never seen, and I can study their deck after casting it.

But yeah, I'd name Burning Anger for sure.[/QUOTE]

Nah, you name Ascendancy. The deck literally cannot function without Ascendancy. The plan, I guess, is running Swan Song to stop that, but the problem is that hand disruption, enchantment removal and combo-breakers are in most sideboards and the Ascendancy deck literally does nothing until it can play Ascendancy.

That combo deck also dies to Spirit of the Labyrinth, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and several other cards.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Nah, you name Ascendancy. The deck literally cannot function without Ascendancy. The plan, I guess, is running Swan Song to stop that, but the problem is that hand disruption, enchantment removal and combo-breakers are in most sideboards and the Ascendancy deck literally does nothing until it can play Ascendancy.

That combo deck also dies to Spirit of the Labyrinth, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and several other cards.

Yeah, but I'm not super likely to draw Stain the Mind and cast it before they can play an Ascendancy. Thoughtseize is the best bet.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Nah, you name Ascendancy. The deck literally cannot function without Ascendancy. The plan, I guess, is running Swan Song to stop that, but the problem is that hand disruption, enchantment removal and combo-breakers are in most sideboards and the Ascendancy deck literally does nothing until it can play Ascendancy.

Agreed. It's kinda like the old standard Pyromancer Ascension decks, except you're running a bunch of dorky cantrips and enchantments instead of burn spells. Yet something about it really intrigues me. It feels like there could be something there.

Spoiler

There isn't. The engine is too fragile.

That combo deck also dies to Spirit of the Labyrinth, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and several other cards.

Eidolon being the only really relevant card out of what you mentioned.

It's very difficult for combo decks to be relevant in a Standard environment in the modern design/development philosophy. The best this deck could hope to do is snipe a few tournaments if the metagame was just right and it got a little lucky. I imagine some players will run it at FNM a lot though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Agreed. It's kinda like the old standard Pyromancer Ascension decks, except you're running a bunch of dorky cantrips and enchantments instead of burn spells. Yet something about it really intrigues me. It feels like there could be something there.



Eidolon being the only really relevant card out of what you mentioned.

It's very difficult for combo decks to be relevant in a Standard environment in the modern design/development philosophy. The best this deck could hope to do is snipe a few tournaments if the metagame was just right and it got a little lucky. I imagine some players will run it at FNM a lot though.

I think all three of those cards would wreck that deck, especially out of the board where the combo deck is looking to board in countermagic, reducing the number of dorky cantrips and chances to even find Jeskai Ascendancy.

I think people are just excited because a combo deck is goldfishing well, but that doesn't mean anything. I think its best match is probably the Temur Monsters deck, and even that deck has Temur charm to counter stuff.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I think all three of those cards would wreck that deck.

Sorry; I meant relevant in the metagame sense. I don't think anybody is going to really be playing any of those cards other than possibly Eidolon.

Like I said; I would never consider deck unless I was hoping to snipe a particular metagame.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Sorry; I meant relevant in the metagame sense. I don't think anybody is going to really be playing any of those cards other than possibly Eidolon.

Like I said; I would never consider deck unless I was hoping to snipe a particular metagame.

They aren't, but the problem is that if the combo deck was legitimately Tier 1 like the creator (some dude on Reddit) suggested, they might see some play since that deck so weak to creature based hosing and not every deck can play Great Revel.

I guess my point is more that there's a deck design problem if a single cheap card completely wrecks your deck to the point you just scoop. That combo deck simply can't win without its combo pieces; but you can lose to Splinter Twin even if they don't go off.

 

[phazedplasma]

we should all get on cockatrice and playtest all these decks with each other

 

[Kacar]

Took all of the advice and added white mainly for Mardu Ascendancy, here's what I have.

Creatures(27)
4xBloodsoaked Champion
4xGnarled Scarhide
3xTormented Hero
3xSoldier of the Pantheon
3xTymaret, the Murder King
3xWar-Name Aspirant
4xGoblin Rabblemaster
3xButcher of the Horde

Spells(11)
2xThoughtseize
2xMardu Charm
3xMardu Ascendancy
2xHero's Downfall
2xPurphuros, God of the Forge

Lands(22)
1xUrborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4xNomad's Outpost
4xCave's of Koilos
4xBloodstained Mire
2xBattlefield forge
4xSwamp
2xMana Confluence
1xMountain

Sideboard(15)
2xThoughtseize
2xHero's Downfall
2xErase
3xBanishing Light
1xStain the Mind
2xMagma Spray
1xSorin,Solemn visitor
2xCrackling doom

I feel like my mana is all over the place, I'm open to suggestions on it, I really don't like tormented Hero that much with no ways to Trigger it but its fine I guess. I think I want to cut them for more removal but I don't know.

 

[Negator]

That above deck is looking similar to what I'd want to build. I just can't figure out if I want to go more warrior tribal with the +1/+0 2 drop dude or go Kirblar's route with the Hoplite.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Took all of the advice and added white mainly for Mardu Ascendancy, here's what I have.

Creatures(27)
4xBloodsoaked Champion
4xGnarled Scarhide
3xTormented Hero
3xSoldier of the Pantheon
3xTymaret, the Murder King
3xWar-Name Aspirant
4xGoblin Rabblemaster
3xButcher of the Horde

Spells(11)
2xThoughtseize
2xMardu Charm
3xMardu Ascendancy
2xHero's Downfall
2xPurphuros, God of the Forge

Lands(22)
1xUrborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4xNomad's Outpost
4xCave's of Koilos
4xBloodstained Mire
2xBattlefield forge
4xSwamp
2xMana Confluence
1xMountain

Sideboard(15)
2xThoughtseize
2xHero's Downfall
2xErase
3xBanishing Light
1xStain the Mind
2xMagma Spray
1xSorin,Solemn visitor
2xCrackling doom

I feel like my mana is all over the place, I'm open to suggestions on it, I really don't like tormented Hero that much with no ways to Trigger it but its fine I guess. I think I want to cut them for more removal but I don't know.

Tormented Hero is fine even if you can't trigger it because its 2/1 for 1.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I was leaving the diner by my apartment in San Francisco and I was all like "Is that...? It's Day9!"

So I kinda stalked Day9 and his friends for a couple blocks before I got bored and went to the BART station.

 

[Angry Grimace]

...who?

 

["God's Beard!"]

...who?

The Spellslingers guy.

 

[kirblar]

Mardu Ascendancy is a 4x for sure. Card is unbelievable. You also want to play Foundry Street Denizen due to the interactions it has with the rest of the deck.

I sorta suspect Bloodsoaked Champ might not be all that good.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I sorta suspect Bloodsoaked Champ might not be all that good.

You mean not good other than being the best 1-drop in mono-black aggro, right?

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130311275]You mean not good other than being the best 1-drop in mono-black aggro, right?[/QUOTE]

I guess if you think mono-black aggro will be bad, you will think Bloodsoaked Champion is bad.

These sealed pool generators keep forcing me into Mardu. Black seems like its always the crappiest color though.

 

[kirblar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130311275]You mean not good other than being the best 1-drop in mono-black aggro, right?[/QUOTE]
See, there are so many 1 drops nowadays that I don't even think it's necessarily maindeckable. It's a 2/1 can't block with a relatively expensive and difficult to trigger GY recursion element. Zombies were grindy- Mardu is not. It's fine in MBA, but just cause it's a black 2-power 1 drop.

 

[Angry Grimace]

See, there are so many 1 drops nowadays that I don't even think it's necessarily maindeckable. It's a 2/1 can't block with a relatively expensive and difficult to trigger GY recursion element. Zombies were grindy- Mardu is not. It's fine in MBA, but just cause it's a black 2-power 1 drop.

I mean, you only have three choices in that slot and two of them can't block. Gnarled Scarhide has no real upside over Bloodsoaked Champion unless you actually think you're going to use the Bestow (which I don't think aggro decks are looking to do).

Edit: Well, okay, I guess Mardu can use Soldier of the Pantheon also, I forgot about him.

 

[kirblar]

I mean, you only have three choices in that slot and two of them can't block. Gnarled Scarhide has no real upside over Bloodsoaked Champion unless you actually think you're going to use the Bestow (which I don't think aggro decks are looking to do).

If I'm going Aggro, I want to Rabble.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If I'm going Aggro, I want to Rabble.

You'll have to retrieve them out of my cat's tummy. =/

 

["God's Beard!"]

I mean, you only have three choices in that slot and two of them can't block. Gnarled Scarhide has no real upside over Bloodsoaked Champion unless you actually think you're going to use the Bestow (which I don't think aggro decks are looking to do).

Bestow is huge. It's extra resiliency against sweepers, lets Spiteful Returned triggers happen without suiciding and the Gnarled Scarhide bestow turns off polukranos as a blocker when you're swinging with lethal damage. Giving Pain Seer flying with Herald of Torment is insane.

Mono-Black is a great aggro deck specifically because it has these extra options.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130312760]Bestow is huge. It's extra resiliency against sweepers, lets Spiteful Returned triggers happen without suiciding and the Gnarled Scarhide bestow turns off polukranos as a blocker when you're swinging with lethal damage.

Mono-Black is a great aggro deck specifically because it has these extra options.[/QUOTE]

Well, I guess. I think the deck he's talking about is more of a Mardu rabblemaster deck, though.

 

["God's Beard!"]

.

It also turns drawn 1-drops into free haste damage. I don't get where the sentiment comes from, Bestow dudes are one of the big draws to the deck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So have you guys finally gotten used to the clan names as names for the wedges? Or are you still Junk Men.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I still don't know what colors Junk is. It was Abzan, right?

 

[red13th]

Junk/RUG/BUG men.

 

[Haly]

Don't forget 'Merica.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I don't know the new names yet. Temur is RUG and Sultai is BUG; that's all I know.

 

[ultron87]

I'll at least use Jeskai. I always said Red White Blue instead of America so a shorter way is nice.

Also it still befuddles me that the Team America deck is a BUG deck.

 

[Negator]

If I'm going Aggro, I want to Rabble.

What kind of shell are you using? Base red? Does your deck top out into something like Sorin or Butcher of the Horde?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I still don't know what colors Junk is. It was Abzan, right?

Junk = Abzan
RUG = Temur
BUG = Sultai
BWR = Mardu (this one never had a name as far as I know)
America = Jeskai

What kind of shell are you using? Base red? Does your deck top out into something like Sorin or Butcher of the Horde?

It's Kirblar, so I can't imagine Sorin is there. I think Sorin killed Kirblar's family and he swore vengeance.

 

[aidan]

It's Kirblar, so I can't imagine Sorin is there. I think Sorin killed Kirblar's family and he swore vengeance.

He's still salty from the time he discovered that Sorin created Avacyn. He's never forgiven WotC.

 

[GamerKingFaiz]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130309643]I was leaving the diner by my apartment in San Francisco and I was all like "Is that...? It's Day9!"

So I kinda stalked Day9 and his friends for a couple blocks before I got bored and went to the BART station.[/QUOTE]

You should've gotten a picture or something! At least said hi. When I met him a few years ago he was a really friendly person.

 

[inthrall]

Did a few tests, quite liked the midrange Abzan which seemed strongest when it curved well. My list needed a few edits though, was underperforming slightly.

For a laugh, I built a different version of the standard combo deck making the rounds, adding in Disciple of Deceit added a bit more consistency to the combo. Downsides were the usual issues with the list (dies to a single counter/piece of removal). I'l post the list in case anyone else was interested, as it has some fun interactions that haven't really appeared online much yet:

4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of Deceit
4 Siren of the Silent Song
4 Daring Thief
--
16 creatures

4 Astral Cornucopia
1 Tormods Crypt
3 Thoughtsieze
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Refraction Helix
4 Stubborn Denial
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
--
24 spells

4 Mana Confluence
4 Shivan Reef
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Polluted Delta
5 Islands
1 Swamp
1 Urborg
--
20 lands


Specifically, the Daring Thief can give you some cool creatures your opponents have, you can trigger inspired with springleaf drum, siren triggers with the combo mean you can kill them without attacking, and the disciple can tutor up any of the combo pieces if you draw the right CMC cards.

 

[kirblar]

What kind of shell are you using? Base red? Does your deck top out into something like Sorin or Butcher of the Horde?

Havven't tested it yet, but I got blown up by it hard when I literally could not answer a T3 Mardu Ascendancy. I like Butcher much more than Sorin, though Sorin seems perfectly fine in aggro mirrors in order to warp the life lead.

 

["God's Beard!"]

So have you guys finally gotten used to the clan names as names for the wedges? Or are you still Junk Men.

My momma didn't raise no junk man I dug her rap.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't know if its just luck of the draw or a subconscious forcing, but I keep ending up in Mardu in these sealed generators.

 

[kirblar]

I don't know if its just luck of the draw or a subconscious forcing, but I keep ending up in Mardu in these sealed generators.

I feel like Abzan/Mardu are probably the best option. This feels like a very aggressively oriented limited environment.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I feel like Abzan/Mardu are probably the best option. This feels like a very aggressively oriented limited environment.

I think its just because I like white in this format and the playable white guys can go either way depending on how bomby my gold cards are.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Seems like after my Abzan deck is done I will still have enough cards unused to make the mono-white troll deck:

Deck: Mono White Troll

//Lands
23 Plains

//Spells
3 Ajani Steadfast
4 Ajani's Presence
3 Banishing Light
2 Launch the Fleet
1 Defiant Strike

//Creatures
4 Abzan Falconer
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 High Sentinels of Arashin
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
2 Wingmate Roc

Display deck statistics

AKA Wingmate Roc N' Roll

 

[Firemind]

I'll at least use Jeskai. I always said Red White Blue instead of America so a shorter way is nice.

Also it still befuddles me that the Team America deck is a BUG deck.

I always used Star-Spangled Slaughter or SSS for short. America is too generic of a name.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I have so many terrible deck ideas I need to get out of my head.

Like some sort of controlly crap with Battlefield Thamaturge + Glimpse the Sun God and Icy Blast.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Wtf I took my roommate to Chinatown and just saw Morgan Webb. All the years I lived here and no celebrity spottings and now I could get a job as a nerd culture paparazzi.


On topic: Nyx Fleece Ram and no Pridemates, Grimace? For shame.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";130338206]Wtf I took my roommate to Chinatown and just saw Morgan Webb. All the years I lived here and no celebrity spottings and now I could get a job as a nerd culture paparazzi.


On topic: Nyx Fleece Ram and no Pridemates, Grimace? For shame.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I took the Rams out for being dumb. That's not a real deck, that's just chaff I ordered but don't currently have any deck for. I probably really will build it though since I have all of those cards.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah, I took the Rams out for being dumb. That's not a real deck, that's just chaff I ordered but don't currently have any deck for. I probably really will build it though since I have all of those cards.

Nah man the Rams rule.


4x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Ajani's Pridemate
4x Nyx-Fleece Ram
4x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x High Sentinels
4x Wingmate Roc

4x Ajani Steadfast

4x Banishing Light
4x Devouring Light

4x Radiant Fountain
20x Plains

Sideboard:
4x Mass Calcify
8x Swamp
3x Thoughtseize