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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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K

keeblerdrow

Member
Okay, so what I was thinking earlier was more or less "how can the gods be relevant in this new standard?" The easy answer is, they can't. I think that maybe one of two of the dual color gods might be able to benefit from the tri-color permanents, though. I mean, Savage Knuckleblade and Temur Ascendency are three drops that each do good things and can each provide 2 devotion to either Xenagos, Kruphix, or Keranos. So while I think all gods got way worse post-rotation, the dual colored gods didn't get hit quite as hard.

This still doesn't change the fact that Khans and rotation is the basic equivalent of Wizards taking devotion behind the shed for "the business". But even with this, green devotion seems like it might be able to hang in there. The only gods that directly benefit from mystic, courser, and caryatid on board are Nylea, Xenagos, Kruphix, Karametra, and Pharika. So those last 4 have the best shot of seeing play as permanents that can only be dealt with by exile or by -1/-1 counters once they're on board.

So the shell is

4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Courser of Kruphix

Tutors enabled by these guys through Nykthos:
Chord of Calling
Genesis Hydra

Abzan would utilize this for (some variation):
2x Pharika
2x Athreos
3x Elspeth
2x Aljani, Mentor of Heroes
3x Nissa, World Waker
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor

I kinda like Temur here:
2x Keranos
2x Xenagos
2x Kruphix
2x Kiora
3x Nissa
3x Sarkhan


But as I said, I am more just taking a look to see if this can be done post-rotation.
It's can't.
I'm also trying this with very little real experience with the new cards.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
keeblerdrow said:
Okay, so what I was thinking earlier was more or less "how can the gods be relevant in this new standard?" The easy answer is, they can't. I think that maybe one of two of the dual color gods might be able to benefit from the tri-color permanents, though. I mean, Savage Knuckleblade and Temur Ascendency are three drops that each do good things and can each provide 2 devotion to either Xenagos, Kruphix, or Keranos. So while I think all gods got way worse post-rotation, the dual colored gods didn't get hit quite as hard.

This still doesn't change the fact that Khans and rotation is the basic equivalent of Wizards taking devotion behind the shed for "the business". But even with this, green devotion seems like it might be able to hang in there. The only gods that directly benefit from mystic, courser, and caryatid on board are Nylea, Xenagos, Kruphix, Karametra, and Pharika. So those last 4 have the best shot of seeing play as permanents that can only be dealt with by exile or by -1/-1 counters once they're on board.

So the shell is

4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Courser of Kruphix

Tutors enabled by these guys through Nykthos:
Chord of Calling
Genesis Hydra

Abzan would utilize this for (some variation):
2x Pharika
2x Athreos
3x Elspeth
2x Aljani, Mentor of Heroes
3x Nissa, World Waker
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor

I kinda like Temur here:
2x Keranos
2x Xenagos
2x Kruphix
2x Kiora
3x Nissa
3x Sarkhan


But as I said, I am more just taking a look to see if this can be done post-rotation.
It's can't.
I'm also trying this with very little real experience with the new cards.
Click to expand...

I guess Nylea can stick since green devotion is still semi-viable.
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
So what are the gods that wouldn't be half bad as just an enchantment? Keranos for card advantage and zaps. Pharika for making bad-ass snakes out of your dead guys. Xenagos to make hasty blow up dolls. Purphoros for damage deluge. Thassa for scry and unblockable dudes.

It seems like the rest of the bunch aren't even semi-worth it as enchantments.
Phenax mill deck. 2K15. It's a thing. Tell your friends.
 
P

phazedplasma

Member
keeblerdrow said:
So what are the gods that wouldn't be half bad as just an enchantment? Keranos for card advantage and zaps. Pharika for making bad-ass snakes out of your dead guys. Xenagos to make hasty blow up dolls. Purphoros for damage deluge. Thassa for scry and unblockable dudes.

It seems like the rest of the bunch aren't even semi-worth it as enchantments.
Phenax mill deck. 2K15. It's a thing. Tell your friends.
Click to expand...

It was a thing when I drafted 4 mind sculpts one M15 draft and drew them all in the first 6 turns. A glorious feeling, only happened once the entire draft though.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You would think Stormbreath Dragon would be more expensive given how obviously good its going to be in Khans.

I think that See the Unwritten card is totally underrated in the Temur deck too because even with an empty board you get to filter 8 cards and pick the best one (which can justify the cost if you land something less expensive than the card itself) and there's the obvious upside to hit a second fatty and 2-for-1.
 
N

Negator

Member
my god, Mardu Ascendency is pretty damn real. If you have a bunch of Foundry Street Denizen the card gets completely out of hand very quickly

Edit: Deck needs Marsh Flats and Arid Mesa badly. If I could fetch a plains it would be nice to not have all my lands kill me when I want a white mana.

Sideboard is a WIP.

4 Mardu Ascendancy
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Akroan Hoplite
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Lightning Strike
4 War-Name Aspirant
3 Hordeling Outburst
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Mana Confluence
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
SB: 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
SB: 4 Dark Betrayal
SB: 3 Erase
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Mardu Charm
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Confirming I got the tar beat out of me by Negatorz Yolo Mardu deck.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Negator said:
my god, Mardu Ascendency is pretty damn real. If you have a bunch of Foundry Street Denizen the card gets completely out of hand very quickly

Edit: Deck needs Marsh Flats and Arid Mesa badly. If I could fetch a plains it would be nice to not have all my lands kill me when I want a white mana.
Click to expand...
*uses God's Beard voice*

I toooolllldd you.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Firemind said:
I'm surprised people aren't considering Broodmate bird in white decks with creatures. I imagine there's a place for it somewhere. I can see it reaching Archangel of Thune prices, if people weren't going to open millions of Khans boxes.
Click to expand...

I thought it was trash at first and while I have no idea whether it will have a place in Standard, I can see it being played in Modern Pod and UWR Midrange decks.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
ElyrionX said:
I thought it was trash at first and while I have no idea whether it will have a place in Standard, I can see it being played in Modern Pod and UWR Midrange decks.
Click to expand...

You just thought it was trash because the art makes it look like Welkin Tern.
 
N

Negator

Member
What do you think about Hordeling Outburst in the deck? Seems to have insane synergy with multiple cards. That into Stoke the Flames is pretty ridiculous.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Negator said:
What do you think about Hordeling Outburst in the deck? Seems to have insane synergy with multiple cards. That into Stoke the Flames is pretty ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Foundry Street Denizen, Rabblemaster, Stoke the Flames, Butcher (probably not as a 4x) and Ascendancy seem like the place to start. I don't love outburst in theory - it's a 3-drop in a deck with 8 top-tier ones already.
 
N

Negator

Member
kirblar said:
Foundry Street Denizen, Rabblemaster, Stoke the Flames, Butcher (probably not as a 4x) and Ascendancy seem like the place to start. I don't love outburst in theory - it's a 3-drop in a deck with 8 top-tier ones already.
Click to expand...

I would definitely test 3 out like I did. The plays that the card can generate seem really good. Think of them as Rabblemaster 5-7.
 
T

ThLunarian

Member
Hmm, Ebay only has 2 buy-it-now listings that are cheaper than SCG. I just bought one of them out, but the fact that there are more than 10 playsets available from the other one is forcing me to remember my budget.

Thanks for the resources, btw - I'm kind of new to this spec-buying thing
 
K

kirblar

Member
Negator said:
I would definitely test 3 out like I did. The plays that the card can generate seem really good. Think of them as Rabblemaster 5-7.
Click to expand...
Post up your list.

Hmm, Ebay only has 2 buy-it-now listings that are cheaper than SCG. I just bought one of them out, but the fact that there are more than 10 available from the other one is forcing me to remember my budget.
Click to expand...
Are you not looking at the playset listings?
 
S

SystemShark

Member
Great Magic day today. Registered for the prerelease for Friday night, and found a hidden Mind Seize Commander deck at my local Target.

Now to learn how to play Commander.
 
N

Negator

Member
kirblar said:
The Confluences are a good investment period., card gonna explode.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had a really horrible feeling that it is going to become the next Mutavault, and I was going to have none of that. That damn card pretty much prevented me from playing Standard for a year.

I'm so excited for the pre-release tomorrow at midnight. I hope people download the Smash demo and play in between rounds.
 
L

Lucario

Member
Heads-up for people doing tempest block drafts -- Mogg Assassin is bugged. If you lose the flip, it will never destroy a creature. Just barely scraped through round 1 where an opponent was using it.

Luckily, players who exploit this sort of thing tend to be pretty terrible otherwise; dude had lethal on board, and instead of pumping his creature and swinging in for match point, he flung it instead. I was holding a Rebound that I sideboarded in after seeing flame wave, rolling thunder, and two flings game two.


These bugs seem like they're getting more common, and they are insanely tilting. I don't particularly care that I won the round; I'm filling in a reimbursement form.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
Lucario said:
Heads-up for people doing tempest block drafts -- Mogg Assassin is bugged. If you lose the flip, it will never destroy a creature. Just barely scraped through round 1 where an opponent was using it.

Luckily, players who exploit this sort of thing tend to be pretty terrible otherwise; dude had lethal on board, and instead of pumping his creature and swinging in for match point, he flung it instead. I was holding a Rebound that I sideboarded in after seeing flame wave, rolling thunder, and two flings game two.


These bugs seem like they're getting more common, and they are insanely tilting. I don't particularly care that I won the round; I'm filling in a reimbursement form.
Click to expand...

I unknowingly inflicted that bug on someone yesterday. Still lost.
 
L

Lucario

Member
acheron_xl said:
I unknowingly inflicted that bug on someone yesterday. Still lost.
Click to expand...

It's definitely beatable -- especially with the absurd removal in tempest block -- it's just very misleading. If I had known the card was bugged, I would never have let my opponent activate it.



It's pretty insane that this:

Code: 
Bugged Goblin Assassin -- 2R

T: Flip a coin. If you win the flip, destroy target creature.

2/1


is outclassed by a number of other red commons and uncommons.
 
D

duxstar

Member
Any of you guys testing decks on cockatrice or any of the other programs? I'm starting to pin down my Abzan Aggro/Midrange deck (is it aggro if you only have a mana dork in the one spot?)

The decks I've found giving me the most trouble seem to be the super fast token decks, I don't have an answer to how to deal with them and if they do land Mardu Ascendancy it's pretty much GG.

My best guess on answering it is 4 drown in sorrow in the board, in fact at the moment my Sideboard is 4x Coursers , 4 x Drown in Sorrow, 2x Setessan Tactics, 2 Banishing Light , 3x Thoughtsieze

Almost exclusively all for aggro, maybe replacing the Coursers with Nyx Fleece Rams is all I can think of.

Anyways if anyone wants to test some decks just PM me or find me on cockatrice with the same name (duxstar)
 
B

Bonethug

Member
Working on my Mono Black Aggro decklist for new standard. Anyone that has been testing have any input. My biggest concerns are Anger of the Gods and Nyx Fleece Ram which may end up being the same deck. To answer Nyx Fleece you have to swarm which could result in a blowout from Anger. Masters in the board for 5 tough and flying over stupid green walls and rams.

I've also been looking at a more Human focused Mono Black Aggro running Obelisk of Urd.

Mono Black Aggro
22 Swamp
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Tormented Hero
4 Brain Maggot
3 Pain Seer
3 Spiteful Returned
3 Herald of Torment
4 Mogis's Marauder

3 Boon of Erebos
2 Bile Blight
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
1 Boon of Erebos
3 Dark Betrayal
4 Despise
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Master of the Feast
2 Stain the Mind
 
M

MjFrancis

Member
I was thinking of keeping things monoblack as well. I had this list in mind:

4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Gnarled Scarhide
4x Tormented Hero

4x Mardu Skullhunter
4x Pain Seer
4x Spiteful Returned

4x Herald of Torment

4x Hero's Downfall

2x Sign in Blood
4x Thoughtseize

22x Swamp

SB:
2x Mogis's Marauder
2x Bile Blight
4x Crippling Blight
3x Dark Betrayal
4x Despise

It's funny how similar they are, but we are all building from the same known archetype. If anything I'd add red for Rabblemaster and Lightning Strike, but I like keeping an aggro deck mono colored in a Standard where three-color mana bases will run wild. I was building a lot of RB, RWB & R/Affinity lists but when I went mono black the goldfishing improved dramatically.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Speaking of the gods not being playable anymore, I wonder if something could be done with a Sultai defender self-mill deck with Phenax, Nyx Weaver, and Empty the Pits as a win condition. Get 30 cards into your graveyard and then cast Empty the Pits to get 15 zombies, leaving enough mana open for a counter. If that fails, you can mill yourself until you can cast Necropolis Fiend.

Also, a Mardu deck with Atheros, Butcher of the Horde, and maybe in addition to other small attackers, Generator Servant.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
I bought a playset of Mires, because I have a feeling that if I end up playing Standard, i'm going to be playing RWB beatdown

Now, to justify a playset of Confluences.... this one is a lot harder. I own a playset of Cities for Modern, which makes it harder to justify the purchase under the "i'll use them in modern!" explanation I'm using for fetches..

Ugh.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
How long does it normally take before Standard gets broken down into the same decks playing the same decks?

bigkrev said:
I bought a playset of Mires, because I have a feeling that if I end up playing Standard, i'm going to be playing RWB beatdown

Now, to justify a playset of Confluences.... this one is a lot harder. I own a playset of Cities for Modern, which makes it harder to justify the purchase under the "i'll use them in modern!" explanation I'm using for fetches..

Ugh.
Click to expand...

You don't need a playset of Confluence. Like 2 is probably enough for most decks; Mardu beatdown isn't the most aggro of aggro decks, its still relying pretty heavily on its 4-drop.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
haha Wescoe just pointed out that 1-hit kill combo that's going to piss you the fuck off when it happens to you in Limited - Dragon Style Twins + Become Immense

Its a bit too cute for constructed, I think, although he did point out the Christmasland turn three kill:

Turn 1: Fetch a Forest, Elvish Mystic.
Turn 2: Fetch a Mountain, Generator Servant + Elvish Mystic #2.
Turn 3: Fetch a Mountain, sac Servant (2RRGGG mana total, 4 cards in grave) to cast Dragon-Style Twins (3RR) and Become Immense (delving for 4 cards + 1G mana). That's exactly 20 points of haste damage for a third turn kill!
Click to expand...

He forgot being sad when your opponent blocks with his Elvish Mystic, though.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
OnPoint said:
Bought them at 10 a piece a month ago. So glad I did
Click to expand...

They're one of the weird cards that's more expensive on MODO than in paper. I think I bought my Confluences on MODO at 9 tix, and they're 20 now. My paper ones I bought at like 12 a few weeks ago and they're climbing still.
 
F

f0rk

Member
The hot strategy on SCG right now is nyx fleece ram to enable Wingmate Roc. Still don't think 1 drop decks are going to be very good in this format
 
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