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Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
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Ew no never. I still have nightmares about it, and I last played with and against it 10+ years ago.
I wouldn't mind getting BBE for my deck, but I think it's a problematic card. JTMS I won't even entertain the notion of it being unbanned, I never played with or against it, but it seems extremely oppressive and from what I've read, it was.
blindrocket
Member
What would a Modern Temur deck look like?
Also, I've purchased a play set of BBE (Steve Argyle art) a few weeks ago, just in case.
charlequin
Banned
This is going to be such a disaster.
I'm afraid for Amonkhet. 😨
I'd imagine this set is pretty locked in by now.
no Eldrazi so it already has to be better than BFZ and EMN. Okay so the cards might suck but I'm confident they'll nail the theme at least. Kaladesh on the other hand is already boring
Not without my Aether Revolt subEquipment theme! GIVE IT TO ME WIZARDS, PROVE THE PROPHECY IS TRUE
Joe Molotov
Member
Pulled a masterpiece Solemn Simulacrum tonight in draft.
I really just wanted an Aether Hub, tho.
Trade you.
Infinite Stars
Member
Basically my feelings right now. Amonkhet is highly anticipated by both me and a friend who are way too interested in Egyptian Culture. If Amonkhet is hurt bad by this, I don't think R&D can bounce back ala BFZ's issues because Zendikar had a lot of love for it before the return.
Aaron Forsythe mentioned on Twitter yesterday that they're still touching up Amonkhet, so be prepared for the worst.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well they just hyped a set up like none in some time and imo it's a dunce so this follows amonkhet is going to be great
A beautiful trainwreck
Should be banned for saying that.
Who gives a shit about the theme when you have BFZ level card design?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dynavault Tower is shit. Deck does nothing if it doesn't draw perfect.
okay you're probably right, I didn't play during BFZ. That set was just all-around garbage tier
That's because you could shuffle your other two Squadron Hawks by playing one, fetch the two Hawks again, basically drawing three cards with Jace every turn.
He really wasn't oppressive when Bloodbraid Elf was legal.
Man... *head down, kicks rock*
Simply Sarah
Member
I honestly don't get all the Kaladesh hate. I think it's great and, at least so far, seems to have done great things for Standard. Granted, I'm a control player and it seems to have given us some quite viable control decks so that may be part of it.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
I can only wonder how much they can really do to Amonkhet at this point. We've had leaks occur with physical product this far out before and wizards isn't known for their ability to pivot things on a dime.
The biggest thing that could be happening is enemy fetches in Amonkhet. If that set was designed with them in mind and R&D doesn't want them showing up with fetchable duals so they yank them it could just make the set a complete loss.
The biggest thing that could be happening is enemy fetches in Amonkhet. If that set was designed with them in mind and R&D doesn't want them showing up with fetchable duals so they yank them it could just make the set a complete loss.
charlequin
Banned
Usually this thread is a slightly more chill microcosm of a certain category of players, but there's like three people really disliking Kaladesh that's making the median here pretty negative, which in this case seems to be really different from the community consensus in most places. Shrug.
Yeah upon considering it even if Amonkhet winds up with fucked-up development because of this switch there's basically no human way it can be as bad as BFZ.
At very least all the art's in, the initial layouts would be done, and it'll be sent to the printers soon. Amonkhet comes out April 28. Historically they've said there's a six-month window between when they send a finished file to the printer and when the set actually releases, which means Amonkhet itself could've really only had minor tweaks if they made the decision in the last few weeks, while Hour of Darkness could certainly have had another pass through the development file.
SigmasonicX
Member
Yeah, when they say they're still touching up Amonkhet this late, the only thing I imagine they could really do is swap out fetchlands with different enemy-colored lands with names that fall in the same place alphabetically. I don't think they'd mess around with numbers and especially mechanics at this stage.
I don't think Amonkhet will be as messed up as BFZ was.
BFZ was planned as a three-set block, and got squashed into two; this altered every aspect of its design.
Amonkhet wasn't designed to be standard legal with BFZ, but now it wil be. This is only a problem for constructed. Most constructed-worthy cards are rare/mythic, which don't define the limited environment. So maybe they have to nerf some rares and mythics, but draft shouldn't be messed up too much.
Of course, there's always a chance that one of the core Amonkhet mechanics interacts in a very very bad way with a core BFZ mechanic; that *could* screw up the whole set.
BFZ was planned as a three-set block, and got squashed into two; this altered every aspect of its design.
Amonkhet wasn't designed to be standard legal with BFZ, but now it wil be. This is only a problem for constructed. Most constructed-worthy cards are rare/mythic, which don't define the limited environment. So maybe they have to nerf some rares and mythics, but draft shouldn't be messed up too much.
Of course, there's always a chance that one of the core Amonkhet mechanics interacts in a very very bad way with a core BFZ mechanic; that *could* screw up the whole set.
charlequin
Banned
My bigger concern isn't really with Amonkhet so much now that I've looked at where it would be in the process, it's more with future blocks. Rosewater's said repeatedly that Standard puts a cap on a lot of things: how complex sets are, how many mechanics they can have, how many planeswalkers they can print. Are they going to go down to 2-3 PWs a block to keep Standard under 15? Are they going to start treating Kaladesh as a high-watermark for complexity instead of a median? It just felt like the original announcement of the two-block switch was really carefully thought out in ways where all the parts supported one another and worked as a coherent whole, so changing this one part has all these big consequences that seem completely thoughtless.
I agree with the above sentiments, but don't have much to add. I think this will have lots of knock-on effects, some of which we can predict now (complexity), and some that won't be apparent for years.
Edit: We are *just now*, with Khaladesh, seeing the first fully-implemented 3-block standard (and it could be argued that this still doesn't count because BFZ started under the old model). We won't see the first full 4-block standard until Khaladesh rotates out in Fall 2018.
Edit: We are *just now*, with Khaladesh, seeing the first fully-implemented 3-block standard (and it could be argued that this still doesn't count because BFZ started under the old model). We won't see the first full 4-block standard until Khaladesh rotates out in Fall 2018.
Latest Developments - M Files Part 2
Apparently, Copter, for a short time, was a 3/4 with when it hits a player, draw a card; then a 3/3 with vigilance and attack/draw loot. Think of how much more obnoxious it could have been!
Also, affinity for artifacts was, apparently, in the set when design handed it off. And Torch Gauntlet had an energy equip cost.
Apparently, Copter, for a short time, was a 3/4 with when it hits a player, draw a card; then a 3/3 with vigilance and attack/draw loot. Think of how much more obnoxious it could have been!
Also, affinity for artifacts was, apparently, in the set when design handed it off. And Torch Gauntlet had an energy equip cost.
Simply Sarah
Member
As I've said before, I also feel that they're missing something by having the Spring big set still rotate after 18 months, unlike under the old block-base set system where the only big set had 24 months in standard.
charlequin
Banned
To me the shorter window on one block is less of an issue (it's still as long as it would've been under the old system, i.e. plenty long) than half of the blocks never getting to be in Standard alone. It's pretty unfortunate that SOI block will never be in a Standard environment without BFZ, for example.
This has only been sporadically true since Shadowmoor.
Lorwyn block - 2 big sets
Alara block - 1 big set
Scars of Mirrodin block - 1 big set
Zendikar block - 2 big sets
Innistrad block - 2 big sets
Return to Ravnica block - 2 big sets
Theros block - 1 big set
Khans of Tarkir block - 2 big sets
And that's if you ignore the core sets, which were also big sets, but were only legal for 15 months.
Edit: I do kind of agree with your opinion though; every other block is getting screwed a little.
SigmasonicX
Member
We were told that design originally had five mechanics for Kaladesh for most of it, before they cut it down to three. From this, we know they were energy, vehicles, fabricate, proliferate (from last M-Files article), and now affinity for artifacts. While it would have been nice to see that with modern design sensibilities, I would have preferred affinity returning with a different card type. Interesting to hear that they were designing energy equipment after all. I wonder if they were removed from the block, or if we'll see them in Aether Revolt. But then again, would they mention this if it was coming next set?
Other things to note are that Electrostatic Pummeler and Multiform Wonder were nerfed a lot, and Skysovereign originally hit players instead of planeswalkers. They considered Aether Hub too weak to be a rare. It looks like there will be a general shift in philosophy regarding what goes at uncommon, with more weak in Limited but strong in Constructed cards going there.
The article often mentions that they were unsure about how vehicles would do in Constructed, and pushed them to make sure they saw play. Their philosophy is that it's better to err on the side of being too strong, especially if this is the only time vehicles get to shine.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I was actually kind of shocked (but pleased) to see Aether Hub at uncommon.
Not too weak, on the contrary, they know that most decks will play 4 so it's just lame to have this at rare and inflate the price of standard decks for such a basic card.
Exactly. And given that it's $4 as an uncommon, this was absolutely the right move.
They said in the M-Files that they want cards that are powerful in Constructed but weak in Limited to start appearing at Uncommon instead of Rare. I think this is a great move.
charlequin
Banned
I'm honestly confused why they didn't feel like proliferate worked out, they've got the +1/+1s to support it and everything.
Plus with Energy... yeah, it makes no sense.
divisionbyzorro
Member
It pushes Fabricate in a weird direction, since it only plays nicely with the counter half and not the token half.
Affinity would work with the token half.
I think they just wanted to cut back on mechanics. Remember, aftr BFZ and SOI blocks they felt there was too much complexity creep, so cutting back on mechanics makes sense. Energy, Vehicles and Fabricate are all knew and don't need a lot of support (though energy does need breadth). Affinity and Proliferate are also both form Mirrodin blocks and they likely wanted to differentiate Kaladesh from Mirrodin as much as possible.
SigmasonicX
Member
They mentioned that they wanted proliferate to work with both +1/+1 counters and energy, but it pushed +1/+1 counters much more. You can only get one energy with each proliferate, but you can get many +1/+1 counters. I expect proliferate will return in a block that actually focuses on the +1/+1 counter interaction.
Ah I missed it. Thanks.
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