Support NeoGAF

[Infinite Stars]

I burned out on Standard because of the 18 month cycle, not because of the twice a year rotation. I think(and I'm just speculating) Wizards saw the numbers of competitive play in BFZ/OGW/SoI Standard go down with players citing Cost for their reason and took it as "Rotation is too fast", not "Maybe having $500-$600 be the average price of a standard deck is too high". I mean, BFZ was definitely floating around that as the baseline because fetches+ Jace, and GW Tokens/Rally was around there IIRC.

 

[Pundere]

Is there anyone around that still plays the Metallurgic Summonings deck? I finally got all the parts and was planning on taking it to fnm. I was wondering how the deck does against what are likely to be the most popular decks (control, vehicle aggro, and possibly pummeler combo).

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Did +1/+1 move to abzan for good? Kaladesh had fabricate and +1/+1 counters matter only in those colours and colourless.

Is there anyone around that still plays the Metallurgic Summonings deck? I finally got all the parts and was planning on taking it to fnm. I was wondering how the deck does against what are likely to be the most popular decks (control, vehicle aggro, and possibly pummeler combo).

I just completed the deck myself but didn't get any testing in. Still have to decide on a sideboard. There's so much to worry about, don't even know how many decks play lost legacy or how popular pummeler is and how much of my side I should dedicate to which match up.
I picked up a chandra today and am wondering if I should add her to the mix.

 

[Ashodin]

And Torch Gauntlet had an energy equip cost.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Definitely think we'll see Energy equipment in Aether Revolt.

 

[Pundere]

I just completed the deck myself but didn't get any testing in. Still have to decide on a sideboard. There's so much to worry about, don't even know how many decks play lost legacy or how popular pummeler is and how much of my side I should dedicate to which match up.
I picked up a chandra today and am wondering if I should add her to the mix.

I got some proxy'd practice matches against a friend's rw cars and ub colossus decks. Cars seems like a rough match where you either board wipe turn 3 or 4 or you just die. Colossus is pretty much a combo mirror until you can side in counterspells to keep their win cons off the board.

It's painful to say, but I think the deck's best sideboard option against pummeler may actually be Commencement of festivities. If they waste multiple cards and a lot of energy but end up doing no damage you're gonna have a much easier time. Without the combo finish it's just a mediocre aggro deck that gets destroyed by a single Radiant flames.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I got some proxy'd practice matches against a friend's rw cars and ub colossus decks. Cars seems like a rough match where you either board wipe turn 3 or 4 or you just die. Colossus is pretty much a combo mirror until you can side in counterspells to keep their win cons off the board.

It's painful to say, but I think the deck's best sideboard option against pummeler may actually be Commencement of festivities. If they waste multiple cards and a lot of energy but end up doing no damage you're gonna have a much easier time. Without the combo finish it's just a mediocre aggro deck that gets destroyed by a single Radiant flames.

Yeah I currently have a single commencement for the side and going back and forth on the 4th main deck radiant flames. I took out most of the ramp for counter magic in the main and have quite the sideboard dedicated to dealing with control.

 

[Pundere]

Yeah I currently have a single commencement for the side and going back and forth on the 4th main deck radiant flames. I took out most of the ramp for counter magic in the main and have quite the sideboard dedicated to dealing with control.

I've been considering taking a page from the UR spells playbook and adding a few copies if Niblis of Frost to the sideboard. We don't cast quite as many spells, but the idea is the same.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I had to drive 75 miles just to pay $5/ea for 2 Aether Hubs and $8/ea for 2 Inspiring Vantages, ffs. I did have just 4 Needle Spires in, but the mana was just way too slow when I was playtesting yesterday. I kept getting btfo by Electrostatic Pummler.

 

[kirblar]

I got the fastlands at 3.5-5.5 each preordering. They were in the $4-9 range when Scars was out, so didn't think they had a risk of dropping, only going up.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Would the following card be too good for Standard?

Vials o' Aether 2

Artifact

At the beginning of your upkeep, you gain 1 Energy

Tap, pay X Energy: put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield equal to the amount of energy spent.

 

[kirblar]

That card's too good period. (so is Marvel)

 

[Infinite Stars]

That card's too good period. (so is Marvel)

Every time I look at Aetherworks Marvel I forget that it's cast and not put into play. Boy did they really want it to be a thing.

 

[Ashodin]

What the hell do I sideboard vs Jeskai control? Repel the abominable?

 

[ElyrionX]

This is one of the worst things I've ever read.

"They've taken a few things off so there must be something else safe on there!" - Wrong. I shouldn't have to explain how this isn't logical in the slightest- it's like saying that because one trained lion didn't bite you when you went to a magic show, you should go to the zoo and hop in their pen because it'll be safe.

"They don't know how it might impact the format" - Wrong. The cards that have been coming off the ban list are from the very start of the format's inception (or close to it.) They tested Sword/Visions internally before releasing them from the list. They're out of freebies- they had been saving cards like those to unban at PTs, but the death of the Moden PT put an end to that goddamn stupid policy.

Modern is just fine. If they're going to do something, it's more bans (SSG/Become Immense) to stop early kills, not fewer. Posts like this give off the distinct impression that someone both isn't playing the format and doesn't actually know what's on the ban list anymore.

So lets look at what's still on it and whether it can come off.

Ancient Den - No. Artifact Land.
Birthing Pod - No. Siege Rhino. Would merge Abzan w/ combo again.
Blazing Shoal - No. Infect
Bloodbraid Elf - No. They don't want BBE/Jace around.
Chrome Mox - No. Fast mana.
Cloudpost - No. Fast mana.
Dark Depths - No.
Deathrite Shaman - No.
Dig Through Time - No. Delve VS
Dread Return - No. Dredge/Reanimator cost avoidance BS
Eye of Ugin - No. Eldrazi.
Glimpse of Nature - No. Elf Combo.
Great Furnace - No. Artifact Land.
Green Sun's Zenith - No. Dryad Arbor.
Hypergenesis - No.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - No.
Mental Misstep - No.
Ponder - No.
Preordain - No.
Punishing Fire -No.
Rite of Flame -No. Fast Mana
Seat of the Synod - No. Artifact Land.
Second Sunrise - No. Tournaments taking 5 hours longer.
Seething Song No. Fast Mana.
Sensei's Divining Top No. Tournaments taking 5 hours longer.
Skullclamp -No.
Splinter Twin - No.
Stoneforge Mystic -No.
Summer Bloom -No.
Treasure Cruise -No. Delve
Tree of Tales - No. Artifact Land.
Umezawa's Jitte - No.
Vault of Whispers - No.

I mean, seriously.

The permutations in here are far too numerous, especially for the cards that don't go directly into current tier one decks, for you to be making snap judgments like that.

 

[HK-47]

lol most of those cards make tier one decks themselves. Some even make every deck either built to abuse the card or built specifically to fight it. What do you think is worth looking at and why would it be better than more bannings?

 

[OnPoint]

The permutations in here are far too numerous, especially for the cards that don't go directly into current tier one decks, for you to be making snap judgments like that.

How about all the "What if X wasn't banned in Modern" videos people have made for these kinds of cards? I've watched quite a few of those and man... it's surprising sometimes to see something you didn't think would be good take off and play the way it does. The research has been done. Some cards are just too good. I'm of the opinion that banned list is right now probably about as good for the format as it gets.

Out of curiosity, what would you take off?

 

[phazedplasma]

Can't find glimmers of genius anywhere and I need 2 for sunday -__-

 

[Joe Molotov]

If you're 5-10 minutes late for the round because you went to get food, but the owner of the shop decides FNM is gonna be super-casual and you're not going to get a game loss or a forfeit or anything, I ain't mad about that. But then if we go to time, your board state looks like Donald Trump's election chances, and neither of us is getting in Top 8 unless we get a win, and you refuse to concede, then fuck you. Have some fucking common courtesy, you asswipe. And yes, I am salty as fuck.

In related news, I played Mono Green Energy twice at FNM and drew both matches. Just fuck my shit up, fam.

 

[kirblar]

The permutations in here are far too numerous, especially for the cards that don't go directly into current tier one decks, for you to be making snap judgments like that.

It's not a snap judgement, it's 20 years of experience and knowledge.

 

[Yeef]

If you're 5-10 minutes late for the round because you went to get food, but the owner of the shop decides FNM is gonna be super-casual and you're not going to get a game loss or a forfeit or anything, I ain't mad about that. But then if we go to time, your board state looks like Donald Trump's election chances, and neither of us is getting in Top 8 unless we get a win, and you refuse to concede, then fuck you. Have some fucking common courtesy, you asswipe. And yes, I am salty as fuck.

If a player is late to a match, you should really get an extension. Technically, if a player is more than 10 minutes late; it's an auto-match loss, even at regular. The exception is generally for when someone leaves and a round finishes early; then they have until the next round would have started before their time limit begins.

In either case though, the judge/t.o. should really be giving an extension if they're not handing out match losses.

 

[Ashodin]

So I've identified the problems with Jeskai Control - it is SUPER weak to go wide strategies. If you can avoid the early Radiant Flames you can pressure into a win. Post board gets even better as you can side in Repel the Abominable to soak up the damage.

For UW Midrange strategies, the best tech card ever comes straight outta OGW - Tears of Valakut. Uncounterable 5 damage to Avacyn, Spell Queller, Smuggler's Copter.... so good

 

[Pundere]

Getting your Cathartic Reunion hit by Spell Queller is a very traumatic experience.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Won 2-0 against GB Aggro. The 2nd game I won with flame lash 4 to the face.
Now just gotta dodge control, pummeler and and list legacy.

2-0 against Jeskai Control. Fall of the titans won me game 2, titi flip trigger and anticipate on the stack, spell queller with my void shatter exiled resolved fall of the titans surged for 4 targeting titi and the spell queller kills both, void shatter the anticipate.

0-2 against RB madness after getting screwed game 2. Stuck on 5 lands and 4 6 mana card in hand.

 

[Santiako]

If anyone is interested, the big Eternal Weekend is being streamed here:

https://www.twitch.tv/bazaar_of_moxen

They are playing Legacy today, and they're showing Oldschool 93/94 between rounds.

Commentary by Raph Levy and Patrick Dickmann

 

[Xis]

So, uh, Demon of Dark Schemes is pretty good in limited? Felt real good to have my entire board wiped + my best flier reanimated against me + then get beat about the head by a 5/5 flier.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=417646&type=card

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Lost 1-2 against BG aggro was screwed in game 3. 14 lands in play 10 left in the deck and my draws were land Metallurgic Summonings land.

Lost 0-2 against BG aggro again. The problem isn't the removal for the small creatures but that the deck has no way to deal with the fatties it doesn't help that I got royally screwed both on colours and lands.

2-3 with 1 round to go probably gonna play it out for the off chance I make top 16.

I love the deck but I need to find ways to deal with fatties.

 

[Santiako]

I'm at work so i can't really watch, but the stream for GP Providence (Standard) has started at twitch.tv/magic

 

[bigkrev]

Ah, round 1 video coverage
Just saw a guy attempt to block with an uncrewed copter, and then forget to loot with a different copter he had crewed and blocked with

 

[blindrocket]

It's not a snap judgement, it's 20 years of experience and knowledge.

I don't disagree, but you're evaluating the Modern format.
So I'll ask you this, what's the goal of the Modern format? Why do we have it?

 

[kirblar]

I don't disagree, but you're evaluating the Modern format.
So I'll ask you this, what's the goal of the Modern format? Why do we have it?

It's not to allow people to play "all the cards", it's to provide a healthy format for playing older cards.

The idea that the "best format" is the one that lets people play "the most cards" is delusional libertarian-minded bullshit.

I get very, very angry at the "We don't know what will happen" nonsense spouting off from people, because it's absolutely not true. Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean everyone else is (and it certainly doesn't mean experts are.)

 

[ElyrionX]

It's not to allow people to play "all the cards", it's to provide a healthy format for playing older cards.

The idea that the "best format" is the one that lets people play "the most cards" is delusional libertarian-minded bullshit.

I get very, very angry at the "We don't know what will happen" nonsense spouting off from people, because it's absolutely not true. Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean everyone else is (and it certainly doesn't mean experts are.)

So, with your 20 years of experience, did you manage to predict that Eldrazi would be 25% of the modern meta when BFZ was spoiled?

 

[kirblar]

So, with your 20 years of experience, did you manage to predict that Eldrazi would be 25% of the modern meta when BFZ was spoiled?

Eldrazi weren't 25% of the modern meta post-BFZ. The BFZ era Eldrazi deck was fun. OGW is what blew things up.

And yes, people were absolutely concerned about the deck. But no one was sure how good it was, because no one had played with the cards yet.

That's not true of literally every card of the ban list.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Ended up getting the promo with a 3-3 record. Never even drew the singleton nissa but I don't think she'd have been good even if I had drawn her.
Corrupted Grafstone is definitely better than the caravan. It enables you to 2 spell turn 3 or to void shatter turn 3 and cast MSummonings on turn 4. I never missed lethal by a few damage.
Ceremonious Rejection in the main should have done way more than it did for me.
Definitely need more Torrential Gearhulks.
Flame Lash is good but not for the main.
Commence the Festivities is a solid sideboard card. Never played against Pummeler but I sided it in against RW vehicles and used it his turn 3 as gain 5 life, then untapped and Radiant Flamed his entire board.
Weaver totally bricks RW aggro decks.

 

[ElyrionX]

Eldrazi weren't 25% of the modern meta post-BFZ. The BFZ era Eldrazi deck was fun. OGW is what blew things up.

And yes, people were absolutely concerned about the deck. But no one was sure how good it was, because no one had played with the cards yet.

That's not true of literally every card of the ban list.

People have played with Jace in Legacy but not Modern. Since the inception of Modern, the format has evolved tremendolously and many cards have been added to the pool and new tier one archetypes have been established. How can you or anyone be so sure that you've thought of every single variable, from the meta to the billions of interactions possible, to come to the conclusion that unbanning it would warp the format around it?

 

[y2dvd]

Is there anyone around that still plays the Metallurgic Summonings deck? I finally got all the parts and was planning on taking it to fnm. I was wondering how the deck does against what are likely to be the most popular decks (control, vehicle aggro, and possibly pummeler combo).

Lost 1-2 against BG aggro was screwed in game 3. 14 lands in play 10 left in the deck and my draws were land Metallurgic Summonings land.

Lost 0-2 against BG aggro again. The problem isn't the removal for the small creatures but that the deck has no way to deal with the fatties it doesn't help that I got royally screwed both on colours and lands.

2-3 with 1 round to go probably gonna play it out for the off chance I make top 16.

I love the deck but I need to find ways to deal with fatties.

Yeah, I kinda figured it was gonna struggle against aggro or against certain fatties. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I switched it to Grixis and am totally happy with the changes. Even though I can't make to Game Day today, I'll try to make it tomorrow. Going through some playtesting and FNMs, the changes are solid.

It looks almost like Shota's control deck, but with Summonings and Part the Waterveil as the win conditions still. Unlicensed Disintegration is the perfect answer to your problems dealing with fatties. Sometimes a PW hits the board and it is hard to deal with, so I threw in a Ruinous Path in there. Pilgrim's Eye to mana fix, to hit Delirum for Scour the Laboratory, deal 3 dmg with Unlicensed Disintegration, and it help get to 6 artifacts for Summonings activated ability. Scour is in there because I removed Nissa's Renewal and need a fat instant speed 6/6 (w/Summonings), and sometimes I get Delirum to make it cost 4 mana.

Spells (34)
3 Anticipate
3 Harnessed Lightning
2 Radiant Flames
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Void Shatter
2 Glimmer of Genius
1 Ruinous Path
4 Metallurgic Summonings
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Part the Waterveil
1 Negate
2 Scour the Laboratory
3 Pilgrim's Eye

Lands (26)
(WIP)

Sideboards (basically stayed the same for now)
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Weaver of Lightning
1 Radiant Flames
2 Negate
3 Fevered Visions
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Thing in the Ice
2 Confiscation Coup

 

[kirblar]

People have played with Jace in Legacy but not Modern. Since the inception of Modern, the format has evolved tremendolously and many cards have been added to the pool and new tier one archetypes have been established. How can you or anyone be so sure that you've thought of every single variable, from the meta to the billions of interactions possible, to come to the conclusion that unbanning it would warp the format around it?

Because I'm not so open minded that my brain falls out.

You're using the same crap "how can anyone actually know the truth" argument again.

 

[SigmasonicX]

In the current Standard match, I liked Liliana entering and immediately getting run over by a Fleetwheel Cruiser.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Yeah, I kinda figured it was gonna struggle against aggro or against certain fatties. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I switched it to Grixis and am totally happy with the changes. Even though I can't make to Game Day today, I'll try to make it tomorrow. Going through some playtesting and FNMs, the changes are solid.

It looks almost like Shota's control deck, but with Summonings and Part the Waterveil as the win conditions still. Unlicensed Disintegration is the perfect answer to your problems dealing with fatties. Sometimes a PW hits the board and it is hard to deal with, so I threw in a Ruinous Path in there. Pilgrim's Eye to mana fix, to hit Delirum for Scour the Laboratory, deal 3 dmg with Unlicensed Disintegration, and it help get to 6 artifacts for Summonings activated ability. Scour is in there because I removed Nissa's Renewal and need a fat instant speed 6/6 (w/Summonings), and sometimes I get Delirum to make it cost 4 mana.

I think I'm going to stick with temur, Nissa's Awakening really turns the game around. I played pretty poorly against BG aggro, you really can't tap out against them once they are about to get to 5 mana.
I might splash for unlicensed disintegration though, Aether Tradewinds is the only thing I could come up with and that doesn't really work. I think the galvanic blasts aren't really necessary with the amount of harnessed lightnings and radiant flames the removal is good enough for weenies.

 

[ElyrionX]

Because I'm not so open minded that my brain falls out.

You're using the same crap "how can anyone actually know the truth" argument again.

Weren't you arguing in the past that Jace should be unbanned?

 

[kirblar]

Weren't you arguing in the past that Jace should be unbanned?

If you're unbanning Jace, you're unbanning BBE. The latter is an issue in that it makes BG/x decks very likely to be Jund over the other two options - it's bad for format diversity.

With Jace, I'm very sympathetic to the newer argument that he's either not good enough, or he's too good - he's a polarizing card. My argument for unbanning him was also partially borne of the desire to get him a damn reprint, which they've now done via Eternal Masters- getting more copies out there isn't as big a deal now.

Basically, things on the control and BG fronts are in a good spot (it's aggro that's the issue atm), and you don't fix what's not broke.

 

["God's Beard!"]

How does white having the best sideboard(something I strongly disagree with) somehow make the fact that even among the top 50 played cards in Modern it appears only twice in maindecks(and that's counting Finks as White)? On the list of "best sideboard" cards, Stony Silence isn't even first in the Affinity hate list. Nature's Claim And Ancient Grudge take the top spots. Stony Silence can't even beat Affinity at times, because they draw the Signal pest half and not the Cranial plating half

I can't think of a color that has close to as good of a sideboard suite as White does. The sideboard is one of the main reasons that Abzan is more popular than Jund.

Also, I'd definitely rather have Stony Silence than Ancient Grudge. The best card is Arcbound Ravager and Stony Silence messes with a lot of other stuff like darksteel citadel and making nexi unable to block and then tap for mana.

 

[Infinite Stars]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";221114283]I can't think of a color that has close to as good of a sideboard suite as White does. The sideboard is one of the main reasons that Abzan is more popular than Jund.

Also, I'd definitely rather have Stony Silence than Ancient Grudge. The best card is Arcbound Ravager and Stony Silence messes with a lot of other stuff like darksteel citadel and making nexi unable to block and then tap for mana.[/QUOTE]

Abzan is not more popular then Jund, not by a long shot. Abzan is at 4% to Jund's 6.5% according to Modern Nexus.

Stony Silence isn't this great end all against Affinity. I've seen Stony Silence resolve only for the Signal Pest Battlecry half of Affinity to get played.

Rest in Peace is less popular then Leyline of the Void or Grafdigger's Cage according to MTG Goldfish.

Furthermore, I don't think "being the best at Sideboarding" is something that excuses White being the weakest color in Modern. It's less than half of Blue's cards in the top 50 cards played in Modern, and Blue is still below RBG.

 

[Ashodin]

1-2 at the game day, we only had 8 people show up, so I got four promo essence extraction + made top 8 woo! got the promo lol.

Fuckin Jeskai Control, I hate you so much

 

["God's Beard!"]

Stony Silence isn't this great end all against Affinity. I've seen Stony Silence resolve only for the Signal Pest Battlecry half of Affinity to get played.

Never said it was, I said I'd rather have a Stony Silence in my sideboard than an Ancient Grudge. It's a much more unique effect whereas Grudge is often covered by maindeckable spells like path to exile or Abrupt Decay.

As far as RIP, usually in my white sideboards I play one Rest in Peace and one Cage. I think RIP is the better card if I had to choose, but I don't and Cage is good against stuff like CoCo.

You have to really be gunning for Dredge specifically to be playing the leyline, though. I think in general it's much worse than the other two options.

 

[Santiako]

White not only has Stony Silence and Rest in Peace, it also has Kataki, Kitchen Finks, Kor Firewalker, Leyline of Sanctity, Timely Reinforcements, Rule of Law, Runed Halo, Ghostly Prison, Blessed Alliance, Auriok Champion, Worship, and those are just off the top of my head. It being the best sideboard colour is not really debatable.

It is also the worst colour in the format, although you could make a case for blue.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Watching the Standard stream, Evan sideboarding Aetherworks Marvel into his Red-Green Energy aggro deck is neat.

 

[Santiako]

Watching the Standard stream, Evan sideboarding Aetherworks Marvel into his Red-Green Energy aggro deck is neat.

He had 1 ! and he got to activate it like 4 times haha

 

[SigmasonicX]

Brisela has appeared! In Oliver Tiu vs. Ricky Chin, on Ricky's side. EDIT: Ricky won.

EDIT: All dragged out control games need to be fast forwarded like that one from round 4 they just showed.

 

[Santiako]

On the scg modern stream, straight up Bant CoCo 6-0 now, just beat Infect on the back of reflector mages.

 

[HK-47]

Stony shuts off most of the decks win cons since it ruins Ravager, Overseer and Plating as well as screwing with the mana based since it stops Citadel and Drum from working. And generally their best sideboard option is hand disruption like Thoughtsieze.