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[Firemind]

Beautiful deck, I wish they printed better aggro 2 drops in red. I have an insane amount of 2 drops in black that range from great to completely ridiculous (Asylum Visitor, Bloodghast, Dark Confidant, Heir of Falkenrath, Oona's Prowler, Pack Rat and Scrapheap Scrounger) but red two drops are pretty lackluster.

I was hoping I would face blue decks that would durdle around. Instead I faced Jund that played several Huntmasters with Kolaghan's Command. D:

Also, Collective Brutality is such a good cube card. The versatility is insane. Goes great in reanimator as well as a discard outlet.

 

[Wulfric]

Thought experiment. Try to remember the cards people hated in standard in recent years, not including Kaladesh. This is my list:

Jace 2.0, Stoneforge, the Titan cycle, Mental Misstep, Delver, Snapcaster, Thragtusk, Pack Rat, Sphinx's Rev, Thoughtseize, Courser/Caryatid, Fetches, Rally, Siege Rhino, Den protector/Deathmist, Coco/Reflector/Queller

Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.

 

[OnPoint]

Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.

I came back in when Zendikar-Scars was legal. Dunno what cards people bitched about before that.

 

[HK-47]

Beautiful deck, I wish they printed better aggro 2 drops in red. I have an insane amount of 2 drops in black that range from great to completely ridiculous (Asylum Visitor, Bloodghast, Dark Confidant, Heir of Falkenrath, Oona's Prowler, Pack Rat and Scrapheap Scrounger) but red two drops are pretty lackluster.

Thats mainly because black gets to do cool things other than attack.

Also anyone who likes Misstep is objectively a bad person.

 

[OnPoint]

I haven't seen much of anyone hating on Den Protector and Deathmist.

But I would personally add Thought-Knot, Kalitas, Jeskai Ascendancy, maybe Whisperwood Elemental/Mastery of the Unseen.

Really? I could swear those got complaints quite a bit in the MagicGAF threads. However, the cards you mentioned did not get a lot of hate in this community.

 

[HK-47]

TKS got hate in other formats where he is the bombiest turn 2 play.

 

[OnPoint]

TKS got hate in other formats where he is the bombiest turn 2 play.

Right, and I specified Standard.

You see, my point is that there are ALWAYS cards we complain about in Standard. One or two stand out cards people love to hate. That warp a format. That make things "miserable". There's ALWAYS something.

People have such short memories.

Suddenly I'm reading Coco was alright in here? When we had 6 months of bitching? No. Fuck that. Just had to point it out.

 

[HK-47]

I love Coco. I'd be happy with bomb ass 2 and 3 drop value from here until Trump causes the apocalypse.

But the format certainly seems more diverse now. Just not in the way people want. Especially all the spellslingers that are chaffing at the creature centric direction of recent years.

 

[Wulfric]

Monastery Mentor was a thing in standard for a little while. Some Miracle builds still run him.

 

[OnPoint]

Monastery Mentor was a thing in standard for a little while. Some Miracle builds still run him.

Right, but nobody complained about it. I was specifically highlighting problem cards people bitched about consistently, not powerful cards people occasionally played.

 

[bigkrev]

Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.

Dark Confidant saw some standard play, but was always more of a legacy/vintage card that a Standard/Modern card.

It's hard to find snapshots of standard from it's time- they didn't do standard GPs untill 200, and Standard wasn't always a Pro Tour format- but it saw zero top 8 appearances in the Worlds that was Champions block and Ravnica: City of Guilds, 2 appearances in the top 8 of what we would call today Pro Tour: Guildpact (in W/B aggro decks), zero appearances in the worlds that was Rav block and Time Spiral, and a single appearance in the only standard GP that happened in the life of the card.

Mental Misstep is another example of a card that kind of did nothing in Standard but was absurd in Legacy/Modern/Vintage

 

[OnPoint]

Mental Misstep is another example of a card that kind of did nothing in Standard but was absurd in Legacy/Modern/Vintage

I misremembered Misstep being banned in standard. Whoops.

 

[An-Det]

Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.

The two years with original Ravnica in Standard were super fucking varied in a way that it hasn't been since, so powerful cards such as Bob weren't as big of an issue (or didn't fit the format). Bob saw play, but didn't really shine in Standard like it does in Eternal formats.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Right, and I specified Standard.

You see, my point is that there are ALWAYS cards we complain about in Standard. One or two stand out cards people love to hate. That warp a format. That make things "miserable". There's ALWAYS something.

People have such short memories.

Suddenly I'm reading Coco was alright in here? When we had 6 months of bitching? No. Fuck that. Just had to point it out.

6 months of bitching? So in other words, no one complained about it until Reflector Mage was printed?

That was my point, ultimately- CoCo was fine until Wizards fucked up and have Green easy access to the best everything.

 

[OnPoint]

6 months of bitching? So in other words, no one complained about it until Reflector Mage was printed?

That was my point, ultimately- CoCo was fine until Wizards fucked up and have Green easy access to the best everything.

I'd have to go back and look at the posts to know how long it actually was. People were definitely already sick of it before that because it was seeing play before OGW, but yeah, it became REALLY busted and unfun when Reflector Mage hit.

My point, ultimately, is that CoCo was not fine, and we shouldn't pretend it was. Even if you were fine with it, the overwhelming feeling toward it was not. I loved Thragtusk something fierce, but man did people bitch about that card. I can admit I was in the minority.

Furthermore, EVERY standard has a card that's not fine. I just find it funny that when we're on to the new thing (Smug Copter) people come out of the woodwork defending or pretending that it was never that bad.

 

[HK-47]

6 months of bitching? So in other words, no one complained about it until Reflector Mage was printed?

That was my point, ultimately- CoCo was fine until Wizards fucked up and have Green easy access to the best everything.

Coco was only fine if Wizards never printed a good tempo, value, or ETB creature at 2 or 3 mana in a creature centric phase of Magic for the rest of its standard run.

The second Origins came out the table was already set with baby Jace and baby Nissa.

 

[Wulfric]

Dark Confidant saw some standard play, but was always more of a legacy/vintage card that a Standard/Modern card.

It's hard to find snapshots of standard from it's time- they didn't do standard GPs untill 200, and Standard wasn't always a Pro Tour format- but it saw zero top 8 appearances in the Worlds that was Champions block and Ravnica: City of Guilds, 2 appearances in the top 8 of what we would call today Pro Tour: Guildpact (in W/B aggro decks), zero appearances in the worlds that was Rav block and Time Spiral, and a single appearance in the only standard GP that happened in the life of the card.

The two years with original Ravnica in Standard were super fucking varied in a way that it hasn't been since, so powerful cards such as Bob weren't as big of an issue (or didn't fit the format). Bob saw play, but didn't really shine in Standard like it does in Eternal formats.

Interesting, I guess cards were viewed in a different lense back when modern wasn't a thing and ZEN fetches didn't even exist.

How about Thoughtseize? I know Duress and Despise were around, but Thoughtseize seems to be the best card-stealing ability in black until Inquisition was printed.

 

[Santiako]

Ajani joins the Gatewatch

Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.

 

[Hero]

Ajani joins the Gatewatch

Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.

Okay between this, Oath of Nissa, Oath of Gideon, and Call the Gatewatch, I totally want to make a superfriends deck for standard.

 

[Maledict]

They are so blatantly setting up Ajani's death it's becoming quite painful.

 

[HK-47]

They are so blatantly setting up Ajani's death it's becoming quite painful.

So then why is he on the Conquest of Power packaging?

 

[Jhriad]

Ajani joins the Gatewatch

Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.

Now that's an Oath I'd want to cast.

 

[bigkrev]

What a weird mix of abilities. The cost reduction incentivises you play it on turn 2, but the other ability incentivises you waiting till you have 2 or more creatures. It just feels like you are never going to take advantage of both abilities in the same game. And how many creature swarm decks are playing expensive walkers?

They are so blatantly setting up Ajani's death it's becoming quite painful.

Good thing he's on the booster art for the 2018 expansion!

 

[kirblar]

Confidant never blew up in Standard because he hurts you way more in Standard.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Superfriend enchantments only matter for jeskai to me or if they are esper and cost 3 or less.

Oh and I only got a slap on the wrist for posting something insensitive.

 

[HK-47]

I think Wizards really wants everyone to play Superfriends in EDH.

 

[HK-47]

Superfriend enchantments only matter for jeskai to me or if they are esper and cost 3 or less.

Oh and I only got a slap on the wrist for posting something insensitive.

Yes you were very insensitive to enchantments. For shame.

 

[kirblar]

Once Ajani gets a Naya card you can worry about him dying.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think Wizards really wants everyone to play Superfriends in EDH.

As a superfriends player in EDH, god please don't. Games take long enough as it is already.

 

[Jhriad]

What a weird mix of abilities. The cost reduction incentivises you play it on turn 2, but the other ability incentivises you waiting till you have 2 or more creatures. It just feels like you are never going to take advantage of both abilities in the same game. And how many creature swarm decks are playing expensive walkers?

The first ability insures that the card isn't dead in hand when you draw a second copy later in the game and the second gives you reason to cast it on curve. Both abilities aren't supposed to give immediate benefit to on-curve play. It's the same as the other cards in the cycle; one ability gives immediate utility and the other gives utility to playing Planeswalker cards in subsequent turns. Given that Nissa and Gideon both generate creature tokens it doesn't seem all that odd to me.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Ajani joins the Gatewatch

Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.

Wow, that's a pretty legit oath. Being two colours really helped open up what it can do, apparently.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Concerning the two abilities, the intention seems to be for one to only be useful early on, and for the counter ability to be marginally useful early and more useful later. I doubt many decks can fully take advantage of both at the same time. Still, I like it.

Also, random thought: how do you guys feel about red getting "destroy target creature with toughness 4 or greater"? MaRo has stated that high toughness creatures are one of red's weaknesses, but that's just too much of a limitation now. I think that as long as direct damage as destruction are kept separated on cards, there's still the weakness that you have to choose one or the other.

 

[keeblerdrow]

So is the reason we haven't heard from Bolas possibly because he lost his spark and is maybe unconscious from some thing he was trying in order to regain his premending power? Seems like a good reason for Tezzeret to be trying to scale a transport and a planar portal to roughly dragon size.

This presupposes that Tezzeret is still working for Bolas.

 

[HK-47]

What a weird mix of abilities. The cost reduction incentivises you play it on turn 2, but the other ability incentivises you waiting till you have 2 or more creatures. It just feels like you are never going to take advantage of both abilities in the same game. And how many creature swarm decks are playing expensive walkers?



Good thing he's on the booster art for the 2018 expansion!

I think the more important take away is that unlike other non Nissa Oath, Ajani's is a good play at any point in the game or board state.

 

[Firemind]

Bant/Naya/Abzan Superfriends...

Not like this... Not like this...

 

[HK-47]

Bant/Naya/Abzan Superfriends...

Not like this... Not like this...

Turn three Gideon and Tamiyo, lets a-go!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

More like the return of GW tokens. Might be a good time to pick up 3 mana Nissas.

 

[alternade]

Fuck, just when I thought I wanted to build Stax Atraxa this pulls me back into Dark Bant Superfriends.

Now all we need is Oath of Kiora and maybe Oath of Ugin

 

[HK-47]

Fuck, just when I thought I wanted to build Stax Atraxa this pulls me back into Dark Bant Superfriends.

Now all we need is Oath of Kiora and maybe Oath of Ugin

Oath of Tibalt.

 

[red13th]

Oath of Ugin would be legit.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ajani joins the Gatewatch

Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.

card is the nuts

it's not a superfriends card. it's a tokens card. it makes your generators cheaper while antheming your team. It's for playing with Nissa and Gideon and Thraben Inspector.

 

[El Topo]

Oath of Tibalt.

Oath of Tibalt RR
Legendary Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, discard a card at random.

 

[HK-47]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";226649014]card is the nuts

it's not a superfriends card. it's a tokens card. it makes your generators cheaper while antheming your team. It's for playing with Nissa and Gideon and Thraben Inspector.[/QUOTE]

It can be both.

 

[OnPoint]

Fuck, just when I thought I wanted to build Stax Atraxa this pulls me back into Dark Bant Superfriends.

Now all we need is Oath of Kiora and maybe Oath of Ugin

Kiora? She's already shown she doesn't work well with others. Unlikely

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm not saying this is Voice of Resurgence, Fleecemane Lion or Dromoka's Command, but WotC definitely likes to push their GW-costing Standard cards.

It can be both.

You're losing value by not taking advantage of the most important mode in the +1/+1 counters. If you're playing a superfriends deck that doesn't make a ton of creatures this is a dead draw a lot of the time. Of course, if your superfriends all make tokens this card is awesome.

 

[ThLunarian]

Oath of Ajani seems like it sucks in Superfriends. Why not just play a mana rock? Do those types of decks ever have enough creatures on the board for the other ability to matter?

And I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of standard; are there not currently 2 mana accelerators available in the format? Because why not just play accelerators plus anthem effects? I know this card sort of does both, but it's much worse at both of them than a dedicated card and it will never do both at the same time

 

[Hero]

Oath of Ajani seems like it sucks in Superfriends. Why not just play a mana rock? Do those types of decks ever have enough creatures on the board for the other ability to matter?

And I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of standard; are there not currently 2 mana accelerators available in the format? Because why not just play accelerators plus anthem effects? I know this card sort of does both, but it's much worse at both of them than a dedicated card and it will never do both at the same time

The answer is there is only one 2 mana rock in standard and you need cards in the graveyard for it to work.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Look, we all know this is just building up to Oath of Bolas with the flavour text "Surprise asshioles! I'll keep watch."

 

[ThLunarian]

The answer is there is only one 2 mana rock in standard and you need cards in the graveyard for it to work.

Is there really not even a creature available for 1G that taps for a green or something? Because I think that would be better than this

 

[HK-47]

Look, we all know this is just building up to Oath of Bolas with the flavour text "Surprise asshioles! I'll keep watch."

"To further my vague ass, poorly written plans, I'll keep watch."