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Magic: the Gathering - Shadows over Innistrad |OT| Blue's Clues

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OnPoint

Member
You did the exact same by quoting my post and saying that Duel Commander is unfun and lacks diversity based on your thoughts of what commander should and should not be lol. DC is a casual format that happens to have a competitive scene, if it wouldn't be fun, people wouldn't be playing it.

You stated that you're playing Duel Commander in a competitive setting. I'm not doing the same thing as you in this regard -- tournament Commander, Duel or regular, simply isn't for me or and flies in the face of why I play the format.

However, I will cede I made the leap that ALL Duel Commander is competitive, so that's on me. I view the format as I do other constructed 1-on-1 formats -- ultra competitive and streamlined in terms of deck building. I suppose it stands to reason that there are causal Duel Commander players out there. But in the context of this conversation, you aren't one of them.

This is a bit of an oxymoron since Commander in essence is diverse because of the singleton and 100 card deck rules.

...what? I'm in favor diversity. The more decks and the more strange they are, the better. I don't want any streamlined net-decked builds on the EDH table. I want wacky and weird shit. A competitive format, even a 100-card list, is going to lack diversity when the builds are streamlined.
 

Firemind

Member
...what? I'm in favor diversity. The more decks and the more strange they are, the better. I don't want any streamlined net-decked builds on the EDH table. I want wacky and weird shit. A competitive format, even a 100-card list, is going to lack diversity when the builds are streamlined.
And this is different from every deck playing Sol Ring how? Singleton decks are variable in their very nature. Someone can netdeck a list and it's still going to be variable because of how Commander inherently works. I mean, are you going to deny someone playing a cutthroat Commander just because it's not wacky enough? That's what politics are for. Even a cutthroat deck can lose when everyone at the table rally against it.
 
There will always be a one mana answer to two toughness creatures. Dead Weight is already a thing.

eh sorcery and instant speed already make a big difference.

And this is different from every deck playing Sol Ring how? Singleton decks are variable in their very nature. Someone can netdeck a list and it's still going to be variable because of how Commander inherently works. I mean, are you going to deny someone playing a cutthroat Commander just because it's not wacky enough? That's what politics are for. Even a cutthroat deck can lose when everyone at the table rally against it.

"Why are you attacking me, I don't have anything!" (choir) "Because you're playing teferi"
 

OnPoint

Member
And this is different from every deck playing Sol Ring how? Singleton decks are variable in their very nature. Someone can netdeck a list and it's still going to be variable because of how Commander inherently works. I mean, are you going to deny someone playing a cutthroat Commander just because it's not wacky enough? That's what politics are for. Even a cutthroat deck can lose when everyone at the table rally against it.

1. You're assuming that every deck I play with and against has Sol Ring. They don't. (And frankly the card should be banned IMO, but what can you do)

However, including one staple card in a kitchen table format is much different than piloting an entire "best build" the way you would in a competitive setting. I'm the kind of player that replaces cards when they're too strong (for example, I took Cyclonic Rift out of my Kruphix deck because the loop was too difficult to escape late game).

2. I'm not denying anyone of anything, nor would I. I don't limit what gets played at the table and I'm well aware of the politics of hating out a deck. I've been on both ends of it, as I would imagine most players have been. Are you mistaking my personal deck/format preference for the law of the land when I play? That's not how it goes, I assure you. The group I play with just happens to play the same way. Other groups have other preferences, and if I came there with my decks, I'd deal with how things are.

What I was taking issue with was the fact that someone said they didn't like normal Commander because the games end on turn 1 with some kind of crazy 5-color super deck, as though that's how all Commander games go.

3. You're right in saying that a 100-card list is going to have a level of built in diversity. But there definitely are builds that do unfair things and can do them pretty consistently. I stay away from those decks. The group I play with does as well. I put "bad" cards in often because they're fun. What I enjoy about Commander is that there doesn't need to be a race to be "the best" if you don't want there to be. There's an incredible amount of diversity if everyone is more concerned with fun than winning.
 
mana crypt should be banned way before sol ring, let alone because it costs like €200

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";202909241]It does attack for three, and overcosted beater is about as good as that card will ever get.[/QUOTE]

paired with GDD and Jace it's upside has an upside. Jace gonna rotate too though
 
paired with GDD and Jace it's upside has an upside. Jace gonna rotate too though

Even if you're playing a red midrange deck that even has a bunch of 5 and 6 drops, it's doubtful if you have an average CMC much higher than 2. So in the very best scenario, you've built a Sulfuric Vortex that takes a turn to start working, that has a greater than 40% chance of doing nothing even if you untap with it, that dies to every removal spell, and at a mana disadvantage. If you're playing a red aggro deck to take advantage of the damage, then your CMC is even lower so the card is actually worse. I felt this way when the card was spoiled and I feel it now, but the card just doesn't have any utility. I don't get the hype.
 

OnPoint

Member
FNM go ahead. It's a Tier 3 deck though.

The problem is that key mechanic requires you to discard cards and they're not going to reprint Dark Confidant.

Is Nahiri in a Mardu Vampires build possibly something worth trying? I haven't actually played Vampires mind you, and Turn 4 is pretty slow, but it's both an enabler and a card drawer.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Hoogland is playing Sin Prodder now, so it may spike, at least. lol. He was at least somewhat responsible for Nahiri going through the roof recently. Let's see if Prodder can rise back up to its preorder price!

GB, the deck looks good. Especially the removal suite spread.
 
Hoogland is playing Sin Prodder now, so it may spike, at least. lol. He was at least somewhat responsible for Nahiri going through the roof recently. Let's see if Prodder can rise back up to its preorder price!

GB, the deck looks good. Especially the removal suite spread.

Hoogland also showed up with his mono 1-ofs GB deck at the open before the PT. You never know whether you're getting jank or genius with this dude.

...man, that would be a good title for an article series.

GB, the deck looks good. Especially the removal suite spread.

Thanks. One of the main things is that I play so much better with hand disruption. I think I just need it in every deck. I like planning out several turns ahead when I have full info. Probably why I play stuff like Lantern Control and Jeskai Black or Esper Rev control. Hell, my whip deck had basically no removal outside of Thoughtseizes.

Transgress and Seer aren't Inquisition and Vendilion Clique, but for Standard they're actually pretty damn close.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Haha, yeah. Hoogland is volatile in more ways than one. He made a strong case for Nahiri in Modern, at least. It's not really the deck for me, but it has definitely put in work. Back to your deck, I've stared at it for a while, I can't really even find something I'd change with it. The lack of Grasp in one of the builds you posted earlier gave me chest pains..lol. I imagine with the way the field is right now you're going to be boarding in Languish and Virulent quite a bit. If your mana doesn't act up, I think this deck is going to surprise folks. Plus, Mindwrack go go go.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
I tried to buy some Sin Prodders last week but one local store had them for $5, the other one had none, and no one would trade me any. It was weird. I had to jam Ire Shamans in my derpy RDW instead and ended up winning, so fuck you Sin Prodder.
 

kirblar

Member
I tried to buy some Sin Prodders last week but one local store had them for $5, the other one had none, and no one would trade me any. It was weird. I had to jam Ire Shamans in my derpy RDW instead and ended up winning, so fuck you Sin Prodder.
They're $1.25 online.
 
1. You're assuming that every deck I play with and against has Sol Ring. They don't. (And frankly the card should be banned IMO, but what can you do)

If Sol Ring had been a rare card that was left out of Revised, we'd have a Power Ten. (I think it's probably better than every power nine card other than Ancestral and Lotus.)

It'll probably be better in Kaladesh Standard, but Gideon AND Nissa don't rotate until next year.

You mean when everyone's making a billion thopters?!
 
Haha, yeah. Hoogland is volatile in more ways than one. He made a strong case for Nahiri in Modern, at least. It's not really the deck for me, but it has definitely put in work. Back to your deck, I've stared at it for a while, I can't really even find something I'd change with it. The lack of Grasp in one of the builds you posted earlier gave me chest pains..lol. I imagine with the way the field is right now you're going to be boarding in Languish and Virulent quite a bit. If your mana doesn't act up, I think this deck is going to surprise folks. Plus, Mindwrack go go go.

Speaking of sideboard cards, I just sat back for around 10 turns straight without playing anything basically against a Season's Past opponent. I knew his hand and he basically had nothing but removal and Season's Past. We just sat there until I had 8 mana and could play my threats one at a time without leaving down the warping wail shields.

It's super fun because my opponent knew I had it from Transgress and couldn't do shit. He kept killing my stuff and I'm just imagining him the whole time thinking "why won't this asshole counter my ruinous path? my languish + grasp combo? plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Passing with 5 mana and a hissing quagmire I could have attacked into a tapped out opponent with, then my opponent transgressing me and seeing a reality smasher I could have played must be the most frustrating thing in the world.
 

Crocodile

Member
It's crazy that it's an uncommon too, it's so very pushed.
Swapped Evolutionary Leap for it in my cube and looks like it's a keep.

This seems like a weird swap. The cards don't really have similar functions. I mean sure you can say they both fetch creatures but they do it in different ways and go in different decks.
 
Random thought. When we get Kaladesh, I'm really hoping for this card:

Inquisitive Calico - 1R
Creature - Cat
(art depicts a calico cat pushing a small device off of a table)
When Inquisitive Calico enters the battlefield, destroy target artifact with converted mana cost 2 or less.
1/1
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The removal would have to be really bad for Sin Prodder to be a good card because you can get any number of 2 CMC creatures to be removal magnets.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";202920961]Speaking of sideboard cards, I just sat back for around 10 turns straight without playing anything basically against a Season's Past opponent. I knew his hand and he basically had nothing but removal and Season's Past. We just sat there until I had 8 mana and could play my threats one at a time without leaving down the warping wail shields.

It's super fun because my opponent knew I had it from Transgress and couldn't do shit. He kept killing my stuff and I'm just imagining him the whole time thinking "why won't this asshole counter my ruinous path? my languish + grasp combo? plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Passing with 5 mana and a hissing quagmire I could have attacked into a tapped out opponent with, then my opponent transgressing me and seeing a reality smasher I could have played must be the most frustrating thing in the world.[/QUOTE]

Hahaha. Yeah. I've only encountered that when playing creature-light burn against some version of Bx control. T1 thoughtseize, then that look of 'welp, guess I ain't doing shit this game."
 

Ashodin

Member
If Sol Ring had been a rare card that was left out of Revised, we'd have a Power Ten. (I think it's probably better than every power nine card other than Ancestral and Lotus.)



You mean when everyone's making a billion thopters?!

Declaration in Stone is future tech indeed
 

Firemind

Member
The group I play with just happens to play the same way. Other groups have other preferences, and if I came there with my decks, I'd deal with how things are.

What I was taking issue with was the fact that someone said they didn't like normal Commander because the games end on turn 1 with some kind of crazy 5-color super deck, as though that's how all Commander games go.
I'm not sure he ever said that. I reckon his local multiplayer Commander group is competitive, so he enjoys French Commander more because it's more balanced. That's perfectly fine. Then you said they're stock lists playing the best cards so he felt obliged to defend his preferred format. And here we are! :lol

What I enjoy about Commander is that there doesn't need to be a race to be "the best" if you don't want there to be. There's an incredible amount of diversity if everyone is more concerned with fun than winning.
That's good. People enjoy different things. For example, I play Fireball and Disintegrate because I think their art looks cool. I also have a deck that doesn't play Sol Ring and instead plays 10+ cards that can destroy Sol Ring. I call it The Equalizer. But I also have French Commander decks that I find fun: Xenagos and Niv-Mizzet. They're hardly tier one Commanders. I specifically chose Niv-Mizzet because in normal Commander, he can be a bit unfair and unfun. I'm a bit of a collector too so for me I probably find it equally fun to collect rare cards that aren't good in any other format. I'm still trying to get my hands on a cheap Beta Gauntlet of Might, Berserk, Timetwister, Legends Sylvan Library and many others.
 

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
WR Equipment is such a nice deck on MTGO. Its 5 bucks, and can just destroy any other aggro deck out there. You can get bigger and faster than any Vampire, Wolf, or Weenie deck. It just folds to any deck with alot of removal.
 
How? If they didn't exist I'd be playing one of those generic taplands from OGW or SOI, and they do come in untapped a fair amount of the time.

They pretty much have to be in your opening hand to have a prayer of coming down untapped. Even then, if I don't have a turn 1 play I almost always play it on turn 1 tapped since there is no point in revealing information. You can hold onto a basic but if that's the case then you've clearly already reached the top of your curve. I don't know if they're worse than basics but I do know they don't feel great to play and I appreciate the Battlelands a lot more than I did a month ago.
 
People are saying the Show/Hand-lands are actually worse than basics. What a disaster of a cycle.

They seemed fine in a vacuum when I first played around with them, but the more I use them the more I realize that they're really mediocre. Also, they play terribly with the Discount Double Check Lands.
 
They pretty much have to be in your opening hand to have a prayer of coming down untapped. Even then, if I don't have a turn 1 play I almost always play it on turn 1 tapped since there is no point in revealing information. You can hold onto a basic but if that's the case then you've clearly already reached the top of your curve. I don't know if they're worse than basics but I do know they don't feel great to play and I appreciate the Battlelands a lot more than I did a month ago.

I agree that the Tangos are better, and that the Showlands aren't great, I was just surprised Kirblar said they were worse than basics.
 

kirblar

Member
They seemed fine in a vacuum when I first played around with them, but the more I use them the more I realize that they're really mediocre. Also, they play terribly with the Discount Double Check Lands.

I agree that the Tangos are better, and that the Showlands aren't great, I was just surprised Kirblar said they were worse than basics.
DBZ points out why- they cause the doublecheck lands to CIPT much more often, screwing up mana curves.
 
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