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[charlequin]

The rest of R&D to MaRo: *crying motions*

Every time they print a card that pulls a limited selection of stuff from exile or a contextually-useful color pie break in a Commander deck, an angel gets its wings.

As much I would love them to, I don't think they'll do a BFM card just because it would be a rules nightmare.

A BFM type mechanic is something that's a 100% certainty over a long enough time horizon; it's got obvious splash appeal, and it's simple enough to understand at a basic level that it won't be a problem to put in packs. Ultimately the rules manager's job is to find ways to make the stuff Design/Development come up with work and this type of mechanic is the sort of thing that, once it made it into a near-final file, they'd push very hard to see specced out and printed.

(None of that speaks to whether this is the specific place they do it, of course.)

 

[OnPoint]

Does the Eldrazi Wish slot into anything in any format? Legacy I could see it being played in Omnitell (if that's even still played, or if it is again after Miracles gets a nerf?), Modern could see it played in... um... I got nothing right now.

No surprise, MaRo hates exile effects

More specifically he hates cards that circumvent exile once done. But it's definitely not a surprise the card makes him salty.

 

[charlequin]

Does the Eldrazi Wish slot into anything in any format?

Omnitell, 12post, and Countertop all play Emrakul sometimes in Legacy, people will probably give the card at least a very good look for all three of those.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Every time they print a card that pulls a limited selection of stuff from exile or a contextually-useful color pie break in a Commander deck, an angel gets its wings.



A BFM type mechanic is something that's a 100% certainty over a long enough time horizon; it's got obvious splash appeal, and it's simple enough to understand at a basic level that it won't be a problem to put in packs. Ultimately the rules manager's job is to find ways to make the stuff Design/Development come up with work and this type of mechanic is the sort of thing that, once it made it into a near-final file, they'd push very hard to see specced out and printed.

(None of that speaks to whether this is the specific place they do it, of course.)

I'm simply not understanding how in a world with flip cards a BFM type mechanic does anything other than make the rules complicated.

 

[kirblar]

I'm simply not understanding how in a world with flip cards a BFM type mechanic does anything other than make the rules complicated.

Because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIf0E9kreLI

 

[charlequin]

I'm simply not understanding how in a world with flip cards a BFM type mechanic does anything other than make the rules complicated.

It looks cool? It lets you make cards that are immediately impressive and easy to grok instead of using tortured templates? For people opening packs, it creates a little mystery that requires getting both cards to completely solve? I mean 70% of Magic mechanics are things you can do in a more obtuse way without inventing any rules, but then you're doing things in a boring and obtuse way when you could just come up with new mechanics/rules to do it elegantly instead.

 

[OnPoint]

Because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIf0E9kreLI

Was hoping for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA5jsa1lR9c

 

[pelicansurf]

Why is the new Emrakul such utter garbage?

We're friends.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It looks cool? It lets you make cards that are immediately impressive and easy to grok instead of using tortured templates? For people opening packs, it creates a little mystery that requires getting both cards to completely solve? I mean 70% of Magic mechanics are things you can do in a more obtuse way without inventing any rules, but then you're doing things in a boring and obtuse way when you could just come up with new mechanics/rules to do it elegantly instead.

Youre just hand waving the rules complication. Combo cards aren't new and just having one flip card that requires a second card to flip has the same functionality.

 

[charlequin]

Youre just hand waving the rules complication.

It's not even that complicated! You put two symbols on the two sides, kind of like the color indicators. "If a card would transform into a face with a left/right symbol and the other matching side isn't on the battlefield, instead it doesn't. If a card with a left/right symbol would enter the battlefield and the other side is not there, instead it doesn't. Two matching left/right cards on the battlefield are treated as a single permanent." What other complication is there? I honestly feel like split cards (with all the weirdness about their CMC, etc.) are more complex than this.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Well this is a surprise. I'm still in the process of reading through MTG Salvation's long summary of the Weatherlight Saga, and at one point, it mentions that the site Wizards put up for Invasion block is still up. This is a site made before they had an official Magic website. The MTG Salvation article that mentions it's still up is from 2006, but lo and behold, the site still works! Listen to that cheesy music and look at what information they put up for Invasion block.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Right.. because... guillotines use.. .gunpowder (???)

Come on I really don't have to spell this out. You know it, I know it, WotC knows that the guillotine was the marquee tool of execution of le grande terreur of the Club de Jacobins as well as for the French revolution at the end of the 18th century.

You can't disassociate these things from one another.

 

[charlequin]

Come on I really don't have to spell this out.

No I understand what you're saying, it's just bizarre. These two things are not tightly linked in the popular imagination and the guillotine as a device of execution in Europe far, far predates meaningful use of handheld firearms.

 

[kirblar]

Aren't Guillotines way way way way older than that?

 

["God's Beard!"]

So I was hoping to end the day with some nice relaxing EDH cube.

One guy drops out of the draft after deckbuilding, fine.
Then the host goes apeshit on me in the private chat for killing him on turn five with Tunnel Vision(this was his cube list by the way and Tunnel Vision only exists to one shot people).
Then the remaining guy, who was mocking the host earlier rudely for being a bad player for targeting his commander instead of mine(even though he went on to remove both), thinks he can untap nykthos with earthcraft and spends 10 minutes doing some elf combo shit then declaring he won the game after ignoring me pointing out that earthcraft only untaps basics several times.

Then he got indignant when I decided to leave rather than unwind the last 30 actions of his turn. Just another day on cockatrice. And I thought EDH cube was the chill out and joke around zone.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Aren't Guillotines way way way way older than that?

No, similar devices in completely different forms were used before, Guillotine himself was a person living in the 18th century. It's so much associated with him the family changed their name.

No I understand what you're saying, it's just bizarre. These two things are not tightly linked in the popular imagination and the guillotine as a device of execution in Europe far, far predates meaningful use of handheld firearms.

No it doesn't. Not in the form of the guillotine which wizards uses on Innistrad.

 

[OnPoint]

Guillotines = guns now?

Emrakul's presence really DOES cause madness!!!

 

[Yeef]

Come on I really don't have to spell this out. You know it, I know it, WotC knows that the guillotine was the marquee tool of execution of le grande terreur of the Club de Jacobins as well as for the French revolution at the end of the 18th century.

You can't disassociate these things from one another.

It's just product placement/cross-promotion.

 

[El Topo]

It's just product placement/cross-promotion.

I find this lack of historical accuracy in a fantasy card game set on a different planet unacceptable.

 

[ultron87]

I'm glad that town turned into a Legendary Ooze.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's just product placement/cross-promotion.

The puns are fantastic.

"The revolutionary game where you win by getting a head."

rolling

Guillotines = guns now?

Emrakul's presence really DOES cause madness!!!

Yes the Guillotine will always be directly associated with the french revolution considering it came out of it. Which at the end of the 18th century involved among other things guns.
Maybe people are fine with disassociating the two but I will always look at Innistrad as missing guns and imagery of guillotines only reinforces that belief.

 

[bigkrev]

Come on I really don't have to spell this out. You know it, I know it, WotC knows that the guillotine was the marquee tool of execution of le grande terreur of the Club de Jacobins as well as for the French revolution at the end of the 18th century.

You can't disassociate these things from one another.

I think you are really overstating this. I went to a good high school, and maybe got a week on the French Revolution. There are about a dozen other things I would associate Guillotines with (even if they are incorrect!) before I would say The French Revolution

 

[OnPoint]

Yes the Guillotine will always be directly associated with the french revolution considering it came out of it. Which at the end of the 18th century involved among other things guns.
Maybe people are fine with disassociating the two but I will always look at Innistrad as missing guns and imagery of guillotines only reinforces that belief.

Are you like a history major or something? I can't speak for anyone else -- my knowledge of the French Revolution is admittedly minimal and I've never seen Les Misrables -- but the image of a guillotine does not immediately evoke an association with guns for me. It doesn't even conjure the image of guns. Plus, I'm personally OK that there are no guns in Magic. Innistrad is a fictional world inspired by several different and fairly distinct European locales -- they're going to pick and choose what works for them and leave some stuff behind.

 

[ThLunarian]

This dude is actually making me care a little bit about the historical inaccuracy of having a guillotine without firearms.

Much respect to the history buff.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think you are really overstating this. I went to a good high school, and maybe got a week on the French Revolution. There are about a dozen other things I would associate Guillotines with (even if they are incorrect!) before I would say The French Revolution

May be a cultural difference, Marie Antoinette was after all a royal from my country so we went over it in our own history as well as in the context of the french revolution and at least another time in any of french, english or german through literature.

Are you like a history major or something? I can't speak for anyone else -- my knowledge of the French Revolution is admittedly minimal and I've never seen Les Misrables -- but the image of a guillotine does not immediately evoke an association with guns for me. It doesn't even conjure the image of guns. Plus, I'm personally OK that there are no guns in Magic. Innistrad is a fictional world inspired by several different and fairly distinct European locales -- they're going to pick and choose what works for them and leave some stuff behind.

no but it was one of my better classes in school, well until the 20th century where I lost interest for some reason. Habsburg austria was just a bit more interwoven even with the follow up of Napoleon and the congress of vienna, hence it's more emphasized here.

If you ask me about US history I'd be a buffoon.

 

[bigkrev]

May be a cultural difference, Marie Antoinette was after all a royal from my country so we went over it in our own history as well as in the context of the french revolution and at least another time in any of french, english or german through literature.

Oh it's that for sure. At least 95% of the people making Magic are american!

 

[Infinite Stars]

I have to agree that the Guillotine without guns is a little odd, considering that the proliferation of firearms came before the Guillotine. I mean, I get why they're using it, but hanging makes more sense period wise.

Also, Les Miserables is about the 1832 French Revolt, not the 1789 Revolution. It's a minor annoyance of mine.

 

[jph139]

-- my knowledge of the French Revolution is admittedly minimal and I've never seen Les Misrables --

Well, seeing Les Mis wouldn't help, since its entirely unrelated to the French Revolution, so you're good!

The fact that Innistrad is essentially just colonial America smooshed with 17th/18th century central Europe definitely makes the lack of firearms sort of silly. Particularly when they swap them out with little crossbows and such... I mean, flintlocks and muskets are so far removed from modern firearms that I really don't think it'd clash at all.

 

[bigkrev]

Also, Les Miserables is about the 1832 French Revolt, not the 1789 Revolution. It's a minor annoyance of mine.

Well, seeing Les Mis wouldn't help, since its entirely unrelated to the French Revolution.

I think this says all we need to say about how much Americans know about French history lol

The fact that Innistrad is essentially just colonial America smooshed with 17th/18th century central Europe definitely makes the lack of firearms sort of silly. Particularly when they swap them out with little crossbows and such... I mean, flintlocks and muskets are so far removed from modern firearms that I really don't think it'd clash at all.

It's fine though, because they have actual Magic on Innestrad. It's perfectly reasonable that a civilization would stop progressing weapon technology because they can throw fireballs, or medical technology because you can magically heal wounds

 

[OnPoint]

Also, Les Miserables is about the 1832 French Revolt, not the 1789 Revolution. It's a minor annoyance of mine.

Hah! Fair point. As I said, I've never seen it and my ignorance of French history is no secret.

 

[MjFrancis]

These townsfolk have guns, they are just too scared to actually use them.

I find this lack of historical accuracy in a fantasy card game set on a different planet unacceptable.

Also, lol!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Well, seeing Les Mis wouldn't help, since its entirely unrelated to the French Revolution, so you're good!

The fact that Innistrad is essentially just colonial America smooshed with 17th/18th century central Europe definitely makes the lack of firearms sort of silly. Particularly when they swap them out with little crossbows and such... I mean, flintlocks and muskets are so far removed from modern firearms that I really don't think it'd clash at all.

Exactly I understand Wizards took a stance on it but I just don't understand their reasoning and in settings like Innistrad it just looks out of place to me.
I mean it's a setting with werewolves and there aren't even silver bullets.

 

[OnPoint]

Exactly I understand Wizards took a stance on it but I just don't understand their reasoning and in settings like Innistrad it just looks out of place to me.
I mean it's a setting with werewolves and there aren't even silver bullets.

They could have explained that away with silver tipped arrows. They just didn't for some reason.

 

[charlequin]

It's just really silly to consider the French "Guillotine" proper as the beginnings of the thing. The Halifax Gibbet dates to the 13th century or earlier, and while it's a little different in design it's recognizably the same kind of device:

If someone really wants to be picky about this* the thing they should be pointing at is the tricorne hats, which as best I understand it on Earth weren't really a thing until 1700.


*and they shouldn't, history nerds whining about anachronisms in fanmtasy settings is incredibly annoying and I honestly enjoy it a bit when setting decisions make people who do this unhappy.

They could have explained that away with silver tipped arrows. They just didn't for some reason.

?

 

[OnPoint]

?

Bruh. Says the silver's in the bow. C'mon now.

Spoiler

Should read "Tap: Destroy target Werewolf creature" instead. 5 to equip is already ridiculous.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's just really silly to consider the French "Guillotine" proper as the beginnings of the thing. The Halifax Gibbet dates to the 13th century or earlier, and while it's a little different in design it's recognizably the same kind of device:

If someone really wants to be picky about this* the thing they should be pointing at is the tricorne hats, which as best I understand it on Earth weren't really a thing until 1700.
*and they shouldn't, history nerds whining about anachronisms in fanmtasy settings is incredibly annoying and I honestly enjoy it a bit when setting decisions make people who do this unhappy.

it is similar but they don't use that design or similarly used devices of the middle ages, they use a Guillotine which is iconic in design. It isn't the beginning but it is the reintroduction of the device and specifically commissioned to improve them.
Tricorne hats aren't my forte but that seems like the period of time Innistrad is going for anyway in 18th century.

I love fantasy but I'll never see a fantasy setting as an excuse to just handwave everything.

 

[Firemind]

Yeah, I don't understand why bows continue getting the shaft. Like, that and Batterskull cost the same mana to equip? Really? How heavy can a bow be?

 

[charlequin]

it is similar but they don't use that design or similarly used devices of the middle ages, they use a Guillotine which is iconic in design.

Yes, because if someone on the Magic creative team went to the art director and said "well even though we're depicting a beheading machine in this card, we can't use a diagonal blade in the style our players will recognize because it's a historical anachronism," they would (rightfully) be fired.

Bruh. Says the silver's in the bow. C'mon now.

Silver's in the arrows, arrows in the bow!

Yeah, I don't understand why bows continue getting the shaft. Like, that and Batterskull cost the same mana to equip? Really? How heavy can a bow be?

I mean if you ever played MIRx3 draft, Viridian Longbow is the stone-cold nuts.

 

[bigkrev]

Yeah, I don't understand why bows continue getting the shaft in Magic. Like, that and Batterskull cost the same mana to equip? Really? How heavy can a bow be?

Virdian Longbow at 3 to equip was one of the best cards in Mirrodin limited. Batterskull was a Mythic pushed for constructed playability

 

[Firemind]

Really. Well Mirrodin had a lot of shitty creatures so I'm not surprised.

 

[ultron87]

Yeah, I don't understand why bows continue getting the shaft.

Teehee.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Yes, because if someone on the Magic creative team went to the art director and said "well even though we're depicting a beheading machine in this card, we can't use a diagonal blade in the style our players will recognize because it's a historical anachronism," they would (rightfully) be fired.

Why are you talking about historical anachronism? It's clearly the period of time WotC has always been going for with Innistrad. As evidenced by among other things the guillotines, the tricornes, the apparel,...

 

[OnPoint]

Silver's in the arrows, arrows in the bow!

C'mon, the 'bruh' didn't give away my sarcasm?

 

[Star Falcon]

Hey - i just started collecting/playing again recently and was wondering if you can use Basic Lands from older sets in Standard Decks?

 

[ultron87]

Hey - i just started collecting/playing again recently and was wondering if you can use Basic Lands from older sets in Standard Decks?

Sure can!

If a card exists in a Standard legal set you can use any printing of that card in a Standard deck.

 

[aidan]

Hey - i just started collecting/playing again recently and was wondering if you can use Basic Lands from older sets in Standard Decks?

Yep. Basic lands from all sets are always standard legal. You can also use older printings of cards in the standard block, if you have them. (So, if you have a Sylvan Scrying from Tenth Edition, you can use it in place of one from Battle for Zendikar.)

 

[Santiako]

Hey - i just started collecting/playing again recently and was wondering if you can use Basic Lands from older sets in Standard Decks?

Yes. Bonus points if they are white bordered to put your opponents on tilt.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wonder whom the access magic stuff is directed at, do they promote it to get a new audience? Is it for the lapsed audience, if so where do they promote it? It can't be for the enfranchised players who get their spoilers on a myriad of sites anyway.

Hey - i just started collecting/playing again recently and was wondering if you can use Basic Lands from older sets in Standard Decks?

Yes, if they were printed in the current standard you can, so no snow covered.

Yep. Basic lands from all sets are always standard legal. You can also use older printings of cards in the standard block, if you have them. (So, if you have a Sylvan Scrying from Tenth Edition, you can use it in place of one from Battle for Zendikar.)

not true for snow covered and wastes.

 

[Star Falcon]

Thanks guys! I have a load of old lands from 4th Edition and the Urza through to Invasion blocks (...it's been that long) which i can use to pad out my decks

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It'd be funny if they ever went back doing a (torment) where a plane just doesn't have one color pie or overemphasizing others. Not the alara way of let's split it in 5 and each is lacking 2 but wholly, both sets. No return of the color just unbalanced glory.