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Magic: the Gathering - Shadows over Innistrad |OT| Blue's Clues

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I wonder whom the access magic stuff is directed at, do they promote it to get a new audience? Is it for the lapsed audience, if so where do they promote it? It can't be for the enfranchised players who get their spoilers on a myriad of sites anyway.

Wizards was advertising it throughout the Magic site via "embedded popups" (not sure on correct term), so anyone visiting the site could potentially learn about it. Plus, it's on their YouTube channel, and they advertised it through their social media channels.

EDIT:
Thanks guys! I have a load of old lands from 4th Edition and the Urza through to Invasion blocks (...it's been that long) which i can use to pad out my decks :)
For Standard, you can always use basic lands, but there aren't any nonbasic lands in that range that are in Standard right now. I don't think any of those lands are in Modern, either.
For casual play, you can do whatever you want, of course.
 
Wizards was advertising it throughout the Magic site via "embedded popups" (not sure on correct term), so anyone visiting the site could potentially learn about it. Plus, it's on their YouTube channel, and they advertised it through their social media channels.

I would at least have expected some youtube or twitch ads thrown in, it just feels weird to make the effort for what's most likely not gonna see any further payoff.
 

Xis

Member
Thanks guys! I have a load of old lands from 4th Edition and the Urza through to Invasion blocks (...it's been that long) which i can use to pad out my decks :)

Not just lands; you can use any old card that has a current standard-legal printing. Example: Serra Angel was reprinted in Magic Origins, so while Magic Origins is standard-legal, you can use your old 4th Edition Serra Angels in a deck if you really wanted to.

For Standard, you can always use basic lands, but there aren't any nonbasic lands in that range that are in Standard right now. I don't think any of those lands are in Modern, either.
For casual play, you can do whatever you want, of course.

Just because I love making lists:
The enemy-colored pain land cycle was first printed in Invasion Block, and is Standard-legal right now (was reprinted in Origins)
City of Brass is Modern legal (reprinted in 8th Edition)
The Invasion tapland cycle (Coastal Tower, etc.) is Modern-legal (reprinted in 8th edition)
Safe Haven was printed in Chronicles and is Modern legal (reprinted as a Time Shifted card in Time Spiral).
 

Daedardus

Member
What do you even get in American History classes in high school? To me, it seems like 50% is American colonization, revolution and civil war, and the other 50% is how Americans won WW1, WW2 and the Cold war :p.
 

bigkrev

Member
It'd be funny if they ever went back doing a (torment) where a plane just doesn't have one color pie or overemphasizing others. Not the alara way of let's split it in 5 and each is lacking 2 but wholly, both sets. No return of the color just unbalanced glory.

They did this in M11, where Blue was far and away the best and deepest color that could easily support 6 players drafting it.

They have also done a thing where 1 color is horrifically unplayable in limited. The most recent example of this would be Black in Avacyn Restored.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would think that the explanation for not having guns in MTG is obvious: EVERYONE CAN USE MAGIC
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
I would think that the explanation for not having guns in MTG is obvious: EVERYONE CAN USE MAGIC

This is a line of thought that has always fascinated me when it comes to worldbuilding in secondary world fantasy stories. In a world where fire-based, combustible magic exists, would gunpowder be discovered? Even if it was, would it replace magic for mining, weaponry, fireworks, etc.?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is a line of thought that has always fascinated me when it comes to worldbuilding in secondary world fantasy stories. In a world where fire-based, combustible magic exists, would gunpowder be discovered? Even if it was, would it replace magic for mining, weaponry, fireworks, etc.?
It depends whether magic is a thing everyone can do with enough practice. In most series, though, magic seems to be a rare, in-born talent rather than an acquired skill.
 
They did this in M11, where Blue was far and away the best and deepest color that could easily support 6 players drafting it.

They have also done a thing where 1 color is horrifically unplayable in limited. The most recent example of this would be Black in Avacyn Restored.

like in actual numbers or just bad balancing?

I would think that the explanation for not having guns in MTG is obvious: EVERYONE CAN USE MAGIC

No they can't. If it's a society where everyone has magic the implications would go much further than no gunpowder.
 
In the end, it comes down to MaRo's point that you have to meet audience expectations. In a fantasy property, people don't expect guns, even if they may be fine with mechs. It's weird, but that's how it is.
 

Firemind

Member
They did this in M11, where Blue was far and away the best and deepest color that could easily support 6 players drafting it.

They have also done a thing where 1 color is horrifically unplayable in limited. The most recent example of this would be Black in Avacyn Restored.
Red in EMA
 

OnPoint

Member
Magic's designers have made the conscious and very public decision to not have guns in the game's fiction.

We can poke holes in it all we want. Things like Goblin Kaboomist imply gunpowder or a similar substance. The game has also had cannons in the past. It's probably time to just accept that there is no sense to the contradictions and move on.
 

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
In the end, it comes down to MaRo's point that you have to meet audience expectations. In a fantasy property, people don't expect guns, even if they may be fine with mechs. It's weird, but that's how it is.

Flintlock fantasy is huge right now, with the likes of Brandon Sanderson, Django Wexler, Brian McClellan, Naomi Novik, Jim Butcher, Brent Weeks, Robin Hobb, and several other prominent authors writing in worlds that mix magic with guns. I think the general fantasy audience is moving away from requiring fantasy to be in a particular faux-medieval mould.
 
Just look at The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. You have freaking robots running around shooting lasers, and no one bats an eye, but you just know there will be a riot as soon as a robot starts shooting bullets.

EDIT: Yes, there is a lot of fantasy that mixes in guns, but I feel like that's still considered a separate genre. Like, if someone was asked about it, they'd describe it as a fantasy story with guns, not just a fantasy story.
 
Why are you talking about historical anachronism?

Wasn't your whole argument that it's illogical to have guillotines but no guns since guillotines were used in a period with guns?

I wonder whom the access magic stuff is directed at, do they promote it to get a new audience?

From what Rosewater said about them trying it out, I get the sense they're seeing if people like the format and if they do they'll do longer, more elaborate versions for future sets and push them via non-Magic streaming channels, etc.
 

jph139

Member
Guns feel out of place to me, but do muskets and flintlocks really feel like "guns" to most people? I mean, they are, certainly, but they're so antiquated and low-tech that they'd fit in fine on Innistrad (and probably other planes as well).

I mean, Mark has Wild West World on his "short list," and god help whoever has to figure out THAT one without guns.
 
Guns feel out of place to me, but do muskets and flintlocks really feel like "guns" to most people? I mean, they are, certainly, but they're so antiquated and low-tech that they'd fit in fine on Innistrad (and probably other planes as well).
That's exactly what they used in Portal 2, right? People thought those were out of place, and Wizards considers it a failed experiment.

I mean, Mark has Wild West World on his "short list," and god help whoever has to figure out THAT one without guns.

Wands that are put in holsters. They've already said they don't like using wands, since it too strongly evokes a wizard stereotype that's considered lame and silly, but that seems like the best alternative.
 
Flintlock fantasy is huge right now, with the likes of Brandon Sanderson, Django Wexler, Brian McClellan, Naomi Novik, Jim Butcher, Brent Weeks, Robin Hobb, and several other prominent authors writing in worlds that mix magic with guns. I think the general fantasy audience is moving away from requiring fantasy to be in a particular faux-medieval mould.

I love Sanderson but not for his skills in writing characters but his creativity in combining his unique takes on magic with alternate history settings like steampunk.
For instance in the 2nd Mistborn trilogy the main character can increase or decrease his weight and push away ferromagnetic metals and Sanderson spins some amazing combat scenes out of that and the interaction of guns, trains, nails, metal in the everyday world, etc.

Funnily compared to innistrad crossbows still have a valid reason of existence and usage in that world because they can be made entirely out of wood.

Wasn't your whole argument that it's illogical to have guillotines but no guns since guillotines were used in a period with guns?

From what Rosewater said about them trying it out, I get the sense they're seeing if people like the format and if they do they'll do longer, more elaborate versions for future sets and push them via non-Magic streaming channels, etc.

My argument has always been that Innistrad in general lacks guns, the Guillotine just is another point reaffirming that.

As to the access magic, I haven't watched it because all I needed from it Gaf and Reddit posted anyway. Hence I'm not sure this is the right audience to test it out.

That's exactly what they used in Portal 2, right? People thought those were out of place, and Wizards considers it a failed experiment.

Portal 2 is 18 years past, ask 10 mtg players nowadays what they think of it and 9 will answer what great game that was.
 
Just look at The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. You have freaking robots running around shooting lasers, and no one bats an eye, but you just know there will be a riot as soon as a robot starts shooting bullets.

EDIT: Yes, there is a lot of fantasy that mixes in guns, but I feel like that's still considered a separate genre. Like, if someone was asked about it, they'd describe it as a fantasy story with guns, not just a fantasy story.
Robots shooting lasers in Zelda is bullshit too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_in_the_Sky
latest
Just curious about how both of you feel about the robots from Laputa in the Sky :p I think "ancient super technology that's advanced enough to pass as magic" is a fairly common trope as this point, but maybe I'm wrong.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm guessing that Howl'mrakul's Moving Castle is a Green Legendary Wall on the front (the number would seem to indicate its colored and somewhere near the back end, although maybe its not far enough in a set with 205 cards and is just red?). There's been a minor interest in a Legendary Wall (and no, Mistform Ultimus doesn't count) from what I understand.
 

Jhriad

Member
This is a line of thought that has always fascinated me when it comes to worldbuilding in secondary world fantasy stories. In a world where fire-based, combustible magic exists, would gunpowder be discovered? Even if it was, would it replace magic for mining, weaponry, fireworks, etc.?

The interaction of combustibles and magic is explored a bit in the Saga of Recluce series, if I'm remembering correctly.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
I'm guessing that Howl'mrakul's Moving Castle is a Green Legendary Wall on the front (the number would seem to indicate its colored and somewhere near the back end, although maybe its not far enough in a set with 205 cards and is just red?). There's been a minor interest in a Legendary Wall (and no, Mistform Ultimus doesn't count) from what I understand.

Who cares about Werewolves, we got Wall Tribal EDH online.
 
Red was fine in EMA limited.

If anything, the most recent example of a color being really weak in limited is BFZ with green.
Oh don't remind me. Even when I was the only one drafting Green in BFZ, i still had a 50/50 chance of having my deck not come together because of power issues.

Doesn't help when Green's roles in colours is outdone by literally everything else( BG lost on Eldrazi to Grixis, Allies barely needed green to function until OGW, Landfall felt like a crapshot on if you'd get the cards/not flood out, and Converge is awful(the 3 cards with Converge I can remember are are Painful Truths, Radiant Flames, and BtL, and none of them feel like they are strong enough to reward their costs)
 
The problem with a legendary wall is that I doubt that they'd print a card in EMN that would have enough colors for wall tribal edh. I mean, you've gotta have stuff like Vent Sentinel, Wall of Denial and Assault Formation in there.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";208029625]The problem with a legendary wall is that I doubt that they'd print a card in EMN that would have enough colors for wall tribal edh. I mean, you've gotta have stuff like Vent Sentinel, Wall of Denial and Assault Formation in there.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they'd be printing it for Wall Tribal purposes.

I think they'd be printing it that way just to say they made a Legendary Wall and because in story it makes sense: Hanweir is the town that barricaded itself behind its walls to keep out the insane Angels.
 
Walls are kinda dumb anyways, they should have been done with them after defender.

If they wanted to have depictions of walls then they just need to make the defenders on the wall the subjects.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Shadowmoor is a format I like that I'm not good at.
 
I've always been partial to Walls. Wall of Heat was probably one of the first cards I ever saw when someone started showing me how to actually play the game.
 

El Topo

Member
Speaking of walls, how come Illusionary Wall is a 7/4? Also how embarassing is it (in the word of Magic) to get killed by Wall of Air?
 

Exokell

Banned
I new there gonna be colorless/devoid cards in this set. Hope this set has more powerful fun cards. SOI was garbage compared to the original set.
 
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