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[TheMoon]

What did they get wrong? I haven't been keeping up with every post in here.

They claimed that the notebook now told you the NEXT step. They showed a supposed example in the video review and most people took it at face value. Those who actually watched what was happening saw that it wasn't actually true and that was confirmed by The Boat who has a review copy and detailed how it works.

 

[zeldablue]

Ooooh yes you can. I beat the N64 game last week without ever opening it up not being bothered. A pop-up saying a note was added would come along but that's it.

I love the bomber's notebook sound effect. One of my favorite fanfares ever.

 

[bobawesome]

I need this game's hot, juicy moon butter all over my face.

 

[MichMasteR]

No Hero Mode... shame

 

[The Boat]

It was mostly saying that the notebook pops up when you do something quest related.
The notebook only pops up if you talk to someone. It pretty much gives a little note about what they said.

A minor error, but it did lead to confusion if the game was made easier. They did add hint stones that pretty much tell you what exactly to do, but it is optional so meh.

It also pops up when you do significant progress in certain quests to keep track of progress, although it really depends on the quest, but yeah, it never gives you hints. I'm certain many people will be annoyed since I see lots of folks with lower annoyance thresholds than me.

They've only added one Super Guide hint stone hidden away inside the clock tower (much like SS' hint stone is near the academy's entrance iirc), I've never seen it anywhere else. The gossip stones, which give you much more direct hints than anything that was added in this version, are just as they were in the original.

They should have let you use the Lens of Truth to find good places to shoot ice arrows.

Honestly, they should just have Tael give you an hint if you're stuck for too long after getting the ice arrows. I have no doubt they changed this because people always have problems with water dungeons, as we can see with IGN's review, Zelda Blue's example and years of people complaining about water temples. I's probably the only change I downright dislike.

I don't think the amount of times a puzzle is used determines how acceptable it is to effectively remove it.

It determines if it's a big deal or not. If freezing water to create platforms was a significant part of the game or even a dungeon, it would be a big problem. I don't like the change, but it doesn't change the fact that it has small implications.

What? It's absolutely linear. The first time you land in Eldin Volcano, you have to go to the Summit, and there's only one way to go. They block off the possible alternate routes until you're done going along their hallway. In Faron Woods, once you find those little fuzzballs, you only have one possible path to get to where the game points you to go. And the game keeps doing that. And I don't see how "pretty much every game does this" is a good enough reason to include a function. This isn't a platformer, or a reflex-intensive action game. This is an exploration and puzzle-solving series. Since they ditched exploration for some reason in SS, and guide you the whole way, then why does there need to be a function informing you that you're being guided? That's all it does, making it a useless function. Who cares if it's optional? If it's putterly useless, then why does it need to be in the game? It has to justify its existence at that point, and it doesn't. You're right, it isn't extraordinary - it's moronic.

Of course you only have one route to go where you want to go, but you have other possible routes to get to other places and it's possible to go somewhere else, it's not a straight line. Just like in other Zelda games, you can try going to other places, but you find roadblocks until you have the needed item. That's how every Zelda and Metroid game handles progression.

There are occasions where it's more linear than others, but most of the time, you can go to different places, this avoids the frustration of looking in the wrong parts of the map, because in other Zelda games you don't have this kind of outside progression and exploration.

The dowsing points you in the right direction so you know where to find what you're looking for so you don't have to spend ages searching every nook and cranny of the map.

Look at the Faron Woods map for example, are you telling me it's a straight line? Are you telling me that if you want to find kikwis there's only one place to look? Are you telling me that when you're looking for Earth Temple keys in Eldin Volcano there's only one place to look? Without dowsing, most of the times you're looking for something, you'd be going in blind.
When you're not looking for a particular object and dowsing's available it just acts as a compass of sorts.

The exploration is still there, there are still reasons to explore the maps, you still have to overcome obstacles to go where you want, you still can discover secrets in them and you can still explore instead of going immediately after your objective.

Now, even if optional, yeah dowsing does help you, it does make things easier, but it is far, far from useless. It serves a point and it helps players, you might not like that it does, but it still has an important function that accomplishes something.

 

[RagnarokX]

I don't think the amount of times a puzzle is used determines how acceptable it is to effectively remove it.



What? It's absolutely linear. The first time you land in Eldin Volcano, you have to go to the Summit, and there's only one way to go. They block off the possible alternate routes until you're done going along their hallway. In Faron Woods, once you find those little fuzzballs, you only have one possible path to get to where the game points you to go. And the game keeps doing that. And I don't see how "pretty much every game does this" is a good enough reason to include a function. This isn't a platformer, or a reflex-intensive action game. This is an exploration and puzzle-solving series. Since they ditched exploration for some reason in SS, and guide you the whole way, then why does there need to be a function informing you that you're being guided? That's all it does, making it a useless function. Who cares if it's optional? If it's utterly useless, then why does it need to be in the game? It has to justify its existence at that point, and it doesn't. You're right, it isn't extraordinary - it's moronic.

It's no more linear than any other Zelda game and the dowsing mechanic is for the most part optional. You certainly don't need it to find your way to the top of the volcano, so why are you complaining that it exists as an option if you do get lost? And hell, unlike the other 3D Zelda games SS doesn't put a minimap on your screen at all times. Once you need to find hidden things scattered around the map, then the mechanic definitely becomes useful for anyone. It's only handholding if they force you to use it. Optional help is, you know, optional.

And Twilight Princess had that optional mechanic where you could use wolf Link's sense of smell to follow literal trails of smell:

There's only one path to Death Mountain since literally every other path is blocked off, so how dare they give people optional help, right?

For reference:

Options are good. It's good that Majora's Mask is giving people more options to enjoy the game. Some people will need help and some won't, but it's their choice to use it.

 

[mantidor]

Ooooh yes you can. I beat the N64 game last week without ever opening it up not being bothered. A pop-up saying a note was added would come along but that's it.

And it does it right after the person tells the details, is in no way different, the info on the notebook is no different than the info the npc gave you.

People are crying over nothing.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Hey, so, this is a random, stupid question about IGN's video review...


Do they have a habit of adding in random, unecessary sound effects to their videos? There's a lot of weird sound effects in areas they usually wouldn't be (Characters making sound effects they usually don't, a cartoonist falling sound during the intro scene, etc). Now, I don't consider myself an absolute purist or anything, but stuff like that would honestly take me out of the game if they tried to "lighten the mood" with cartoon sounds.

 

[Impala26]

No Hero Mode... shame

Yeah, it kind of is, especially in light of the fact that OoT 3D and WW HD both have it. At least if they added a new "Cave of Ordeals" or similar challenge that would be welcome.

It just begs to ask what exactly they were working on for 2+ years with this.

That said, I'll still be buying Day One because it absolutely my most favorite Zelda title.
:-D

EDIT: By the way, has there been any comments regarding how the game plays on say an older 3DS lacking the new C-stick or Circle Pad Pro?

 

[Solid SOAP]

Is it really 100% confirmed that there's no hero mode? I know Nintendo have a habit of telling reviewers not to include every secret found in the gameworld.

 

[The Boat]

And it does it right after the person tells the details, is in no way different, the info on the notebook is no different than the info the npc gave you.

People are crying over nothing.

The only difference is that here it shows you the entry.

I understand why they do it, the notebook is an integral part of the game. The original had it, not just to help you keep track of sidequests, but to show you just how important it is to know the characters, their schedules and their problems, because this is the true important part of MM, not the main quest.

t's why you have to play the Bomber's game, it's why they tell you the Bomber's rules/code of conduct (in the original) which is about solving people's problems and making them happy. It brings out not just the mechanical importance of playing the sidequests, but that all these people have lives and issues and that you're trying to make them happy, even if you're an outsider and they don't know you and even if they will all forget what you did and their problems will start over again the next time you go back to day 1.

So even if the few seconds that you're forced to see the notebook annoy some people, I understand why they did this and I can't disagree with it, because not everyone who's playing already knows that this game is really about the sidequests.

 

[gerudoman]

Is it really 100% confirmed that there's no hero mode? I know Nintendo have a habit of telling reviewers not to include every secret found in the gameworld.

Several reviewers have already confirmed it, so yeah.

 

[georly]

Hey, so, this is a random, stupid question about IGN's video review...


Do they have a habit of adding in random, unecessary sound effects to their videos? There's a lot of weird sound effects in areas they usually wouldn't be (Characters making sound effects they usually don't, a cartoonist falling sound during the intro scene, etc). Now, I don't consider myself an absolute purist or anything, but stuff like that would honestly take me out of the game if they tried to "lighten the mood" with cartoon sounds.

Just watched the whole review... not sure what sound effects you're talking about?

 

[MetalGuardian]

No Hero Mode that allows you to play through the game with the Fierce Deity mask is more gut-wrenching than anything else

Ugly Sheikah Stones littering the world (which I found very immersion-breaking in OoT 3D), limiting the glorious Zora movement, removing the impact of traveling back to the first day by not having it save your progress, and ice arrow buffoonery I was able to handle - but no bonus mode really stings :/

Ah well. I'll still 100% it, which will be more than enough to give me my money's worth.

It will also be nice to have access to the three best Zeldas ever (OoT, MM, ALBW) all on one system.

 

[Tathanen]

I'd like to say that I am pretty happy that no outlets or official Nintendo videos have spoiled what

Spoiler

the inside of the moon

looks like in this 3DS version, I've really been looking forward to seeing how it looks for the first time in-game.

 

[georly]

No Hero Mode that allows you to play through the game with the Fierce Deity mask is more gut-wrenching than anything else

Ugly Sheikah Stones littering the world (which I found very immersion-breaking in OoT 3D), limiting the glorious Zora movement, removing the impact of traveling back to the first day by not having it save your progress, and ice arrow buffoonery I was able to handle - but no bonus mode really stings :/

Ah well. I'll still 100% it, which will be more than enough to give me my money's worth.

It will also be nice to have access to the three best Zeldas ever (OoT, MM, ALBW) all on one system.

Yeah, it's like accidentally spilling some coffee on the mona lisa while doing a restoration. It has a little stain in the corner... but it's still the goddamn mona lisa.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Yeah, it's like accidentally spilling some coffee on the mona lisa while doing a restoration. It has a little stain in the corner... but it's still the goddamn mona lisa.

Pretty accurate. None of the changes I seen so far and played from the demo ruin the core experience. It is still MM character interactions and style.

Also I am glad someone agreed with me that ALBW was a breath of fresh air after getting so many other games since WW/MC.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Just watched the whole review... not sure what sound effects you're talking about?

Like when Link is falling through the hole in the beginning of the game, for example.

 

[Impala26]

No Hero Mode that allows you to play through the game with the Fierce Deity mask is more gut-wrenching than anything else

Ugly Sheikah Stones littering the world (which I found very immersion-breaking in OoT 3D), limiting the glorious Zora movement, removing the impact of traveling back to the first day by not having it save your progress, and ice arrow buffoonery I was able to handle - but no bonus mode really stings :/

Ah well. I'll still 100% it, which will be more than enough to give me my money's worth.

It will also be nice to have access to the three best Zeldas ever (OoT, MM, ALBW) all on one system.

The save system I can get over as it was rather unintuitive and potentially frustrating to begin with. The new time travel options I can also get over as you could still technically play by "OG honor rules" jumping only ahead to 6pm/6am. Pretty much every change I can get over in probably a couple of minutes of actual playtime.

That said the two above I highlighted are a different story. The change to Zora link is no doubt done to make dungeon navigation more manageable, but it's really a shame to lose what was arguably the greatest swimming controls for an N64, hell ANY console game to date. The ice arrows though... seriously WTF, no need for that change at all.

 

[georly]

Like when Link is falling through the hole in the beginning of the game, for example.

Pretty sure that's just his falling sound... it was in the original. Gimme a second to find it.

Edit: Here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PsCgs8rVHE#t=257

Here's an n64 vs 3ds comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzJI_5jAnI8#t=195

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

It determines if it's a big deal or not. If freezing water to create platforms was a significant part of the game or even a dungeon, it would be a big problem. I don't like the change, but it doesn't change the fact that it has small implications.

The change to the overall game may be small, but I lament the fact that Nintendo felt we couldn't handle a puzzle at all.

Of course you only have one route to go where you want to go, but you have other possible routes to get to other places and it's possible to go somewhere else, it's not a straight line. Just like in other Zelda games, you can try going to other places, but you find roadblocks until you have the needed item. That's how every Zelda and Metroid game handles progression.

There are occasions where it's more linear than others, but most of the time, you can go to different places, this avoids the frustration of looking in the wrong parts of the map, because in other Zelda games you don't have this kind of outside progression and exploration.

The dowsing points you in the right direction so you know where to find what you're looking for so you don't have to spend ages searching every nook and cranny of the map.

Look at the Faron Woods map for example, are you telling me it's a straight line? Are you telling me that if you want to find kikwis there's only one place to look? Are you telling me that when you're looking for Earth Temple keys in Eldin Volcano there's only one place to look? Without dowsing, most of the times you're looking for something, you'd be going in blind.
When you're not looking for a particular object and dowsing's available it just acts as a compass of sorts.

The exploration is still there, there are still reasons to explore the maps, you still have to overcome obstacles to go where you want, you still can discover secrets in them and you can still explore instead of going immediately after your objective.

Now, even if optional, yeah dowsing does help you, it does make things easier, but it is far, far from useless. It serves a point and it helps players, you might not like that it does, but it still has an important function that accomplishes something.

The difference lies in SS's map design, which doesn't allow for anything other than the task that they've given you. There's no secluded place to find, no places to explore other than what they've purposefully roped off for you. The kikwis and the keys are just there to give you the illusion that you're doing some exploring - you're still just following along their hallway. You're still using dowsing to follow signposts in those segments. It's just disguised better. If they really wanted us to explore, they would have told us we could look for those things, or we could continue on if we wanted. The only reason to explore is to find Goddess Cubes, which are the only rewards for exploration in that game.

It's no more linear than any other Zelda game and the dowsing mechanic is for the most part optional. You certainly don't need it to find your way to the top of the volcano, so why are you complaining that it exists as an option if you do get lost? And hell, unlike the other 3D Zelda games SS doesn't put a minimap on your screen at all times. Once you need to find hidden things scattered around the map, then the mechanic definitely becomes useful for anyone. It's only handholding if they force you to use it. Optional help is, you know, optional.

And Twilight Princess had that optional mechanic where you could use wolf Link's sense of smell to follow literal trails of smell:

There's only one path to Death Mountain since literally every other path is blocked off, so how dare they give people optional help, right?

For reference:

I believe getting lost is a key aspect of exploring, so yes I do take issue with them throwing safety nets everywhere, especially when there's only one way to go anyways. All they needed to do was have Fi pop out and say "We need to head to the summit." The summit provides the visual target, and I could figure out how to get there on my own. Dowsing wouldn't have been necessary. And I agree, TP was terrible about it too, and I didn't like it there either. But at least TP let me do other things. When I needed to go from Ordon Village to the Death Mountain summit, I could stop in Hyrule Field and pick up Heart Pieces, catch bugs, poke around in Kakariko. It wasn't anything brilliant, but I could do other things. The only thing to do in SS at Eldin Volcano was to play that Minesweeper minigame. Which was a great thing to find, but felt like a regression. And yes, the sniffing in TP was handled terribly. That game made a number of terrible choices.

 

[zeldablue]

Like when Link is falling through the hole in the beginning of the game, for example.

Hmm...

They did add a bunch of random sounds.

xD wtf.

 

[MetalGuardian]

Yeah, it's like accidentally spilling some coffee on the mona lisa while doing a restoration. It has a little stain in the corner... but it's still the goddamn mona lisa.

Majora's Mask is a better piece of art than the Mona Lisa. #TruthFact

The save system I can get over as it was rather unintuitive and potentially frustrating to begin with. The new time travel options I can also get over as you could still technically play by "OG honor rules" jumping only ahead to 6pm/6am. Pretty much every change I can get over in probably a couple of minutes of actual playtime.

That said the two above I highlighted are a different story. The change to Zora link is no doubt done to make dungeon navigation more manageable, but it's really a shame to lose what was arguably the greatest swimming controls for an N64, hell ANY console game to date. The ice arrows though... seriously WTF, no need for that change at all.

I'm okay with owl statues offering permanent saves now. I never used them before, and I won't use them here - except... oh wait!

Removing the auto-save when you travel back is so supremely baffling. Playing the Song of Time in Majora's Mask was always such a melancholy experience. Sure, you lose some rupees and arrows and bombs (which I always found to be a nice touch), but more importantly - you are damning the version of Termina you just left to the apocalypse. You start the three day cycle anew in a nearly identical, but not quite 100% the same, copy of the world. The version of Anju and Kafei from your previous three days? Dead, without ever having reunited. The Deku Butler? Off to rejoin his son. All of the weird beauty of the land with all of its bizarre inhabitants left to nothing but fire and ash, as you continually hop from universe to universe in an attempt to save just one of them from their fate.

The original save system highlighted that - once you go back in time, you can never return to the previous Termina no matter what you do. The land where you spent your past 72 hours is forever erased.

I don't think the ability to move forward in time conflicts with the spirit of the original at all - quite the contrary, in fact. It makes sense within the game's internal logic while also removing some tedium.

The ice arrow change, as have been said many times before, is far more troubling because of its implications rather than its use in this specific game. It was neat being able to create ice platforms wherever, but hardly anything more than a neat little detail the developers came up with. While it certainly has no reason to be changed, the much bigger concern for me is that this is another step back towards the overt and obvious clues that have come at the expense of some otherwise good puzzles. I'm worried that A Link Between Worlds was maybe just an accidental outlier with how it handled those elements.

Swimming as a Zora was *so* much fun in the original Majora's Mask. I hope they've at least made water areas lousy with magic refills now - but we'll see.

 

[RagnarokX]

The change to the overall game may be small, but I lament the fact that Nintendo felt we couldn't handle a puzzle at all.



The difference lies in SS's map design, which doesn't allow for anything other than the task that they've given you. There's no secluded place to find, no places to explore other than what they've purposefully roped off for you. The kikwis and the keys are just there to give you the illusion that you're doing some exploring - you're still just following along their hallway. You're still using dowsing to follow signposts in those segments. It's just disguised better. If they really wanted us to explore, they would have told us we could look for those things, or we could continue on if we wanted. The only reason to explore is to find Goddess Cubes, which are the only rewards for exploration in that game.



I believe getting lost is a key aspect of exploring, so yes I do take issue with them throwing safety nets everywhere, especially when there's only one way to go anyways. All they needed to do was have Fi pop out and say "We need to head to the summit." The summit provides the visual target, and I could figure out how to get there on my own. Dowsing wouldn't have been necessary. And I agree, TP was terrible about it too, and I didn't like it there either. But at least TP let me do other things. When I needed to go from Ordon Village to the Death Mountain summit, I could stop in Hyrule Field and pick up Heart Pieces, catch bugs, poke around in Kakariko. It wasn't anything brilliant, but I could do other things. The only thing to do in SS at Eldin Volcano was to play that Minesweeper minigame. Which was a great thing to find, but felt like a regression. And yes, the sniffing in TP was handled terribly. That game made a number of terrible choices.

Did you look at the maps? How could you possibly get lost in TP, or any 3D Zelda for that matter? The path to Death Mountain is a very narrow practically straight corridor. And even if you want to include Hyrule Field, every path but the one you need to take is blocked off and the only thing special about it is that it's wide. Plus, again, in previous games you had a minimap always on screen. You can explore off the critical path and find stuff like heart pieces in Eldin Volcano, too... You can find 2 pieces of heart on your way to Death Mountain in TP. You can find 2 on your way to the Earth Temple in SS in Eldin Volcano. Lots of goddess cubes, bugs, and crafting materials to find, too. And that's not including the sky, which has stuff to find and sidequests to complete. What's stopping you from poking around Skyloft and helping people for rewards?

Fi could have just told you to go to the summit, but how would that not be worse? That's literally telling you where to go and not giving you any choice to find out for yourself. The premise is that Fi and Link do not know where to go and if they want a hint they can use the optional dowsing mechanic. If the game holds out it's hand don't complain because you reached out and grabbed it when you had the choice not to.

 

[samn]

Ohhhh. I admit, I haven't actually paid off the shopto order yet, just added my card details. Hmm. I will have a look at that other site

Edit: oh shit, £29! Wow. Shopto order maybe cancelled then! Thanks!

No worries! I'm waiting til it's released so I can use my 10% off voucher there.

 

[FreedomFighter]

8.7 IGN review is just way too low.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Hmm...

They did add a bunch of random sounds.

xD wtf.

To the game or the video!? I don't want zany sound effects playing during tense scenes!

 

[TheSlySoul]

To the game or the video!? I don't want zany sound effects playing during tense scenes!

I guess you wouldn't like the Mario Advance series since they added plenty of sound effects to that.

Spoiler

I am neutral to added SFX.

 

[zeldablue]

Random question. Is Mikau

Spoiler

the father

of Lulu's babies?

To the game or the video!? I don't want zany sound effects playing during tense scenes!

Just the review. It's not in the game like that, don't worry.

 

[DarkCronos]

another (italian) review: http://ilovevg.it/recensioni/legend-zelda-majoras-mask-3d/

Spoiler

9.5!!!

 

[Dsyndrome]

My Best Buy order of the LE just updated to the actual release date, holla!

For the reviews, saddens me that points are taken off for what seems like stuff to make the game better, like the save situation. You can still save like you could originally, so it shouldn't be as big a deal. Stuff like the ice arrows and swimming, sure, ok, those affect your situation regardless of your feelings.

I dunno, the Gametrailers review rubbed me the wrong way watching it last night. I'm looking forward to the game regardless, can't wait for next week!

 

[The Boat]

No Hero Mode that allows you to play through the game with the Fierce Deity mask is more gut-wrenching than anything else

Ugly Sheikah Stones littering the world (which I found very immersion-breaking in OoT 3D), limiting the glorious Zora movement, removing the impact of traveling back to the first day by not having it save your progress, and ice arrow buffoonery I was able to handle - but no bonus mode really stings :/

Ah well. I'll still 100% it, which will be more than enough to give me my money's worth.

It will also be nice to have access to the three best Zeldas ever (OoT, MM, ALBW) all on one system.

There are no ugly Sheikah stones littering the world that weren't in MM on N64. There's ONE super guide Sheikah stone hidden next to the mask salesman inside the clock tower.

Yeah, it's like accidentally spilling some coffee on the mona lisa while doing a restoration. It has a little stain in the corner... but it's still the goddamn mona lisa.

It's more like improving the Mona Lisa and some of the improvements have tiny drawbacks. Not that it's a very good analogy, since one is "pure" art and the other is interactive entertainment.

The change to the overall game may be small, but I lament the fact that Nintendo felt we couldn't handle a puzzle at all.

On the subject of the ice arrows, yes, I also lament the fact that in the search to appeal to "casual" players, some things are lost for the experienced ones, my point is just that it isn't a big deal in this case.

The difference lies in SS's map design, which doesn't allow for anything other than the task that they've given you. There's no secluded place to find, no places to explore other than what they've purposefully roped off for you. The kikwis and the keys are just there to give you the illusion that you're doing some exploring - you're still just following along their hallway. You're still using dowsing to follow signposts in those segments. It's just disguised better. If they really wanted us to explore, they would have told us we could look for those things, or we could continue on if we wanted. The only reason to explore is to find Goddess Cubes, which are the only rewards for exploration in that game.



I believe getting lost is a key aspect of exploring, so yes I do take issue with them throwing safety nets everywhere, especially when there's only one way to go anyways. All they needed to do was have Fi pop out and say "We need to head to the summit." The summit provides the visual target, and I could figure out how to get there on my own. Dowsing wouldn't have been necessary. And I agree, TP was terrible about it too, and I didn't like it there either. But at least TP let me do other things. When I needed to go from Ordon Village to the Death Mountain summit, I could stop in Hyrule Field and pick up Heart Pieces, catch bugs, poke around in Kakariko. It wasn't anything brilliant, but I could do other things. The only thing to do in SS at Eldin Volcano was to play that Minesweeper minigame. Which was a great thing to find, but felt like a regression. And yes, the sniffing in TP was handled terribly. That game made a number of terrible choices.

Did you look at the maps? How could you possibly get lost in TP, or any 3D Zelda for that matter? The path to Death Mountain is a very narrow practically straight corridor. And even if you want to include Hyrule Field, every path but the one you need to take is blocked off and the only thing special about it is that it's wide. You can explore off the critical path and find stuff like heart pieces in Eldin Volcano, too... You can find 2 pieces of heart on your way to Death Mountain in TP. You can find 2 on your way to the Earth Temple in SS in Eldin Volcano. Lots of goddess cubes, bugs, and crafting materials to find, too. And that's not including the sky, which has stuff to find and sidequests to complete. What's stopping you from poking around Skyloft and helping people for rewards?

Fi could have just told you to go to the summit, but how would that not be worse? That's literally telling you where to go and not giving you any choice to find out for yourself. The premise is that Fi and Link do not know where to go and if they want a hint they can use the optional dowsing mechanic. If the game holds out it's hand don't complain because you reached out and grabbed it when you had the choice not to.

I think Ragnarok sums this up well. There isn't a big difference between exploration in SS and other 3D Zelda games. The areas are more separated, but besides that, progression is still blocked the same way as it ever was and there are still loads of secrets and secondary things to do.

The difference here is that the outside world actually has a lot more to do and is much more hand crafted than in any other 3D Zelda.

SS basically treats the Skyworld has a classic hub like in the past Zeldas: relatively empty with a few things scattered here and there, from the hub you go to other areas.

These areas in past Zeldas, were mostly straightforward paths to dungeons and/or towns, in SS they're much bigger and much more complex both in layout, progression and secrets, making progression actually less straightforward than before.

Does dowsing help you find things more easily? Yes it does. Is the game a bit more streamlined in certain aspects? Yes it is and that was a response to people complaining about having to traverse large areas in TP.
I'd argue there's a lot more to actually explore in SS than most if not all 3D Zelda games, there never was this huge world where you get lost, can go anywhere and have no guidance to get to where you need to go. Although OoT's world certainly was big back when it launched and you do have some freedom, people tend to exaggerate the actual freedom you had. The disconnected areas in SS (a fruit of wanting to include flying) break the illusion of exploration as classically seen by many people as walking around in an "open" world, but there is certainly no lack of exploration in SS and there's plenty to find without being guided. If you got lost in previous 3D Zeldas that probably was because you were younger.


(Writing on the phone on the train so I apologize for errors and whatnot )

 

[Dead_Pixel]

Random question. Is Mikau

Spoiler

the father

of Lulu's babies?

If memory serves correctly, I believe it was heavily implied.

 

[Ninjimbo]

SS is lot more open than people give it credit for. On my second play through, it was clear how many things I could be doing instead of the main quest. I also noticed how much bigger the areas were than those found in stuff like OoT and TP. It should be obvious at first glance too. Just look at the Eldin volcano map and compare it to Death Mountain in TP. They're philosophically different.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Did you look at the maps? How could you possibly get lost in TP, or any 3D Zelda for that matter? The path to Death Mountain is a very narrow practically straight corridor. And even if you want to include Hyrule Field, every path but the one you need to take is blocked off and the only thing special about it is that it's wide. Plus, again, in previous games you had a minimap always on screen. You can explore off the critical path and find stuff like heart pieces in Eldin Volcano, too... You can find 2 pieces of heart on your way to Death Mountain in TP. You can find 2 on your way to the Earth Temple in SS in Eldin Volcano. Lots of goddess cubes, bugs, and crafting materials to find, too. And that's not including the sky, which has stuff to find and sidequests to complete. What's stopping you from poking around Skyloft and helping people for rewards?

Fi could have just told you to go to the summit, but how would that not be worse? That's literally telling you where to go and not giving you any choice to find out for yourself. The premise is that Fi and Link do not know where to go and if they want a hint they can use the optional dowsing mechanic. If the game holds out it's hand don't complain because you reached out and grabbed it when you had the choice not to.

Sorry. I didn't mean lost as in "I don't know where to go." I meant it as in "I can wander around and head nowhere in particular." I should have clarified. SS doesn't let you do that on the ground. You can in the sky, but there's just not enough to find there for a space that's so large. And yeah, TP isn't great at it either, which is one of the reasons why I dislike that game.

Dowsing tells you where to go too. They both tell you the exact same information, but by having Fi say it you could at least remove the mechanic that doesn't add anything. I don't think either is a great answer, but I think my suggestion is better than the one the game gives you. I'm not complaining that it's optional - I don't think it should be there at all.

In order to illustrate my point, let's take a place from Majora's Mask. I'll choose Southern Swamp, since I think it has the least amount of things to do. I'll point out what you have to do, and then point out what's entirely optional. MAIN PLOT AND SECRETS SPOILERS FOR MAJORA'S MASK. If anyone's reading this and hasn't played MM, don't continue reading.

What you have to do in the area: Talk to the hag in the potion shop, and find out her sister is missing. Go into the Woods of Mystery, follow the monkey, and find the sister. Go back to the hag, get the potion, and bring it to the sister. Go to the tour center, take the boat to the Deku Palace, find the plant seeds, water them, navigate the Palace, try and rescue the monkey, learn about the Temple and get the song, make your way to the Temple, learn the Song of Soaring, open the Temple. There's no marker for any of this, you take clues from dropped dialogue, and have fairly open spaces to navigate.

Now here's what's optional:
- Piece of Heart in the tree on the way to the Tour Center
- Shooting Gallery down a non-required pathway; prizes are a Piece of Heart and a Quiver Upgrade
- Pictobox, by talking to the man running the photo contest
- Maps purchasable from Tingle
- Prizes for photo contest. Usually Rupees but you can get a Piece of Heart by taking a picture of the Deku King. As a secret, you can also get it by taking a picture of Tingle.
- Piece of Heart in Deku Palace - gotten by dodging Scrubs on the ground.
- Get a Title Deed by trading with the Deku Scrub at the Tour Center. Part of a trading chain.
- Piece of Heart from using that same Deku Scrub's spot to get onto the roof of the Tour Center
- Great Fairy Fountain near the Temple. If you find all 15 stray fairies, you get an upgraded spin attack.
- Piece of Heart near Temple, on a random rock that's up to you to find.
- Skulltulla House. Complete it and get the Mask of Truth.
- Two frogs in the area (one in the Temple), that you can talk to with the Don Gero's Mask. Part of a chain to get a Piece of Heart.
- After the Temple, the Butler's race. Complete it to get the Mask of Scents.
- Using the Mask of Scents, you can find mushrooms in the Woods. You can use these to get free potions.
- After the Temple, the Boat Cruise turns into a shooting minigame, giving you the chance to win a Piece of Heart.

ALL of that is completely optional, and the majority of it isn't pointed out to the player other than a dropped hint here or there. You can find them by just poking around. And that's just ONE part of the game world. There's three more compass directions, Romani Ranch, Termina Field, and Clock Town. You can see that the sheer volume of things to do in this one section completely outdoes any one section of Skyward Sword. And again, I chose an area that I think has the least to do and find in the game. What does Skyward Sword give you? Drop materials for beating monsters? Is that really something that I had to find on my own? No, the game throws them at me, and can't shut up about throwing them at me.

Majora's Mask has exploration and things to find in spades, and crushes SS in that regard. And none of it is given a marker - the player has to find them on their own. Skyward Sword not only forces you along a path with almost nothing else to do, it shows you the path that you're forced to walk along. MM lets you explore each area; SS doesn't let you deviate from the main path and then tells you where the main path you're already on is. If I'm in the Southern Swamp, I can spend an entire cycle in a shooting gallery, or taking pictures of random things to get rupees, collecting up to 3 Heart Pieces lying in the open, or whatever I want before continuing on the main quest. If I'm in Faron Woods, I have 1 Piece of Heart, and 2 Goddess Cubes before continuing on the main quest, and both Cubes are thrown at you. Please note, in the past two sentences I'm detailing things I can do before reaching the dungeon. After I've reached the dungeon or completed it, Southern Swamp proceeds to crush Faron Woods in terms of things to do, and it's a fraction of the size.

 

[zeldablue]

If memory serves correctly, I believe it was heavily implied.

Amazing. Nintendo has a way of dealing with adult subjects while keeping kids in the dark.

Spoiler

I didn't understand any of the stuff that was happening in the Great Bay when I was younger. I couldn't understand why the fisherman wanted a photo of a Gerudo woman. Or why the Zora was trying to look into Lulu's room. Or why Lulu wouldn't tell Mikau that she was pregnant.

Wooooooooooow.

 

[TheMoon]

Amazing. Nintendo has a way of dealing with adult subjects while keeping kids in the dark.

Spoiler

I didn't understand any of the stuff that was happening in the Great Bay when I was younger. I couldn't understand why the fisherman wanted a photo of a Gerudo woman. Or why the Zora was trying to look into Lulu's room. Or why Lulu wouldn't tell Mikau that she was pregnant.

Wooooooooooow.

Yup and that stuff is why I scoff at people asking for "dark, mature Zelda" or saying something like Darksiders/Dark Souls finally give sthem that "dark, mature Zelda." I'm always like, "err we already have dark and ACTUALLY mature Zelda ...in Zelda games!"

 

[ibyea]

Amazing. Nintendo has a way of dealing with adult subjects while keeping kids in the dark.

Spoiler

I didn't understand any of the stuff that was happening in the Great Bay when I was younger. I couldn't understand why the fisherman wanted a photo of a Gerudo woman. Or why the Zora was trying to look into Lulu's room. Or why Lulu wouldn't tell Mikau that she was pregnant.

Wooooooooooow.

Yeah, we already got the dark and mature Zelda so many people asked for. People just didn't realize it, and instead wanted what a juvenile thinks of what dark and mature is.

 

[zeldablue]

Yup and that stuff is why I scoff at people asking for "dark, mature Zelda" or saying something like Darksiders/Dark Souls finally give sthem that "dark, mature Zelda." I'm always like, "err we already have dark and ACTUALLY mature Zelda ...in Zelda games!"

Yeah. That's really amazing. When I ask for dark, mature or adult I'm usually asking for something like Majora's Mask.

The game definitely isn't in your face with its themes like other games. It's just so...thematically perfect. ;____;

 

[TheSlySoul]

Yeah. That's really amazing. When I ask for dark, mature or adult I'm usually asking for something like Majora's Mask.

The game definitely isn't in your face with its themes like other games. It's just so...thematically perfect. ;____;

Yeah, MM is about dealing with the end of the world. It relates more to real life stuff than the fantasy settings of old.
The romance quest chokes me up honestly.

 

[Socreges]

Can someone summarize the changes to the save/time system?

 

[TheMoon]

Can someone summarize the changes to the save/time system?

You can now only save at Owl/Feather statues. All saves are permanent. Period.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/the-legend-of-zelda-majoras-mask/Version_Differences

 

[The Boat]

Majora's Mask has exploration and things to find in spades, and crushes SS in that regard. And none of it is given a marker - the player has to find them on their own. Skyward Sword not only forces you along a path with almost nothing else to do, it shows you the path that you're forced to walk along. MM lets you explore each area; SS doesn't let you deviate from the main path and then tells you where the main path you're already on is. If I'm in the Southern Swamp, I can spend an entire cycle in a shooting gallery, or taking pictures of random things to get rupees, collecting up to 3 Heart Pieces lying in the open, or whatever I want before continuing on the main quest. If I'm in Faron Woods, I have 1 Piece of Heart, and 2 Goddess Cubes before continuing on the main quest, and both Cubes are thrown at you. Please note, in the past two sentences I'm detailing things I can do before reaching the dungeon. After I've reached the dungeon or completed it, Southern Swamp proceeds to crush Faron Woods in terms of things to do, and it's a fraction of the size.

Majora's Mask is a side quest centric game with a small main quest, so this is perfectly natural.

 

[The Boat]

Amazing. Nintendo has a way of dealing with adult subjects while keeping kids in the dark.

Spoiler

I didn't understand any of the stuff that was happening in the Great Bay when I was younger. I couldn't understand why the fisherman wanted a photo of a Gerudo woman. Or why the Zora was trying to look into Lulu's room. Or why Lulu wouldn't tell Mikau that she was pregnant.

Wooooooooooow.

Spoiler

There's also a Zora near the pirate fortress that tells you he's there because the pirates are all gorgeous women.

Sorry, dp.

 

[mantidor]

Amazing. Nintendo has a way of dealing with adult subjects while keeping kids in the dark.

Spoiler

I didn't understand any of the stuff that was happening in the Great Bay when I was younger. I couldn't understand why the fisherman wanted a photo of a Gerudo woman. Or why the Zora was trying to look into Lulu's room. Or why Lulu wouldn't tell Mikau that she was pregnant.

Wooooooooooow.

So

Spoiler

they are basically orphans, you rescue orphans in this game.

 

[redfox088]

It's the best one.

Funny how the one most unlike the others is the real gem in the series

 

[redfox088]

Can someone summarize the changes to the save/time system?

Basically takes away some of the tension because you can just save and load at any statue and apparently they are more frequent

 

[Astral Dog]

Yep, its Majoras Mask

 

[Anth0ny]

Majora's Mask is one of the most "mature" games I've ever played. The themes it deals with are dark as hell.

Depressing old thread here

 

[zeldablue]

Spoiler

There's also a Zora near the pirate fortress that tells you he's there because the pirates are all gorgeous women.

Sorry, dp.

And the Gerudos say "I'm going to love doing this to you" when they're trying to kill you.

Bad Nintendoooo...I'm guessing that whole section caused the suggestive themes part of the rating. That and the "alcoholism." e_____e