Extra Sauce
Member
You and I don't have the same definition of mainline.
Majoras Mask 3D - Review Thread
- Thread starter Rich!
- Start date
You and I don't have the same definition of mainline.
Yes it is, and it is considered so by both Nintendo and fans.
A suspended save forces you to stop playing. This does not. They could make the save delete itself upon load and only give you one shot to revert to the save, but what's to stop people from saving once they load? Maybe of they made statues useable once per cycle or something.
You still need to repeat something if you want to reload, you just don't have to repeat the whole cycle. Like I said, I agree that this takes away something, I just don't think it's a
lot and I think it's a necessity.
The other changes, namely the bombers notebook, are nothing more than info you read being jotted down so you don't lose your bearings and a few rumors to start you up on the side quests. They don't negate the need to explore, to talk to characters, to learn their schedules and habits and to learn where they go. It does make things a bit more obvious if you didn't notice them when you talked to someone, although I don't entirely remember how the promise stickers work in the original.
Again, I agree that these take away something, but personally, I find that the positives of these changes outweigh the negatives. I'm not saying everyone needs to agree with me, I'm saying the game experience isn't as different as some make it out to be, at least in my opinion.
lol wat? Yes, yes it is
My solution?
Start up Majoras Mask 3D. Get given these options:
REGULAR (3DS) MODE
- For new players and those who want a more relaxed experience.
CLASSIC (N64) MODE
- For experienced veterans. Play a more difficult quest with more limitations.
Now really, would that have been so hard to do? Sigh. But no, fans of the original have to endure the changes.
It feels like Star Wars OT on Blu Ray all over again
Purist isn't really a negative term, imo, and I don't think the author is trying to use it that way based in the excerpted quote.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
The fact that so many discussions about this game boil down to "but you agree that it's different, right?" should be telling. There's back and forth and back and forth and invariably it just comes down to agreeing that "yes, a change has been made." The hyper-vigilant here seem to think that means "and obviously that's bad," but man I just do not see it whatsoever.
Obviously you can make bad changes to a game. But these are not bad changes. They are ease of access tweaks. They are frustration-cutters. The only conceivable reason why any of them could be railed against is a misplaced sense of what made the game good in the first place, and an insistence that something being frustrating inherently makes it good.
Majora's Mask is about SO MUCH MORE than this pedantic horseshit. It's not about only saving when you time travel, it's about the fact that you HAVE to time travel, that the game is an eternal loop, that you have to plan how to do things in stretches of time that reset. It's not about a location note showing up in your notebook, it's that the notebook EXISTS, that NPCs have schedules, that you follow them and discover their lives. It's not about the moon looking like a sphereoid, it's about the moon BEING THERE.
These changes are curiosities at best! Modernizations! Majora's Mask has been etched in our minds not because of any of these infinitesimal things, but because of the core and defining mechanics, which are untouched! If every change in this remaster were present in the original, you'd STILL have formed the connection to it that you have, because none of them define it even a little bit!
Obviously you can make bad changes to a game. But these are not bad changes. They are ease of access tweaks. They are frustration-cutters. The only conceivable reason why any of them could be railed against is a misplaced sense of what made the game good in the first place, and an insistence that something being frustrating inherently makes it good.
Majora's Mask is about SO MUCH MORE than this pedantic horseshit. It's not about only saving when you time travel, it's about the fact that you HAVE to time travel, that the game is an eternal loop, that you have to plan how to do things in stretches of time that reset. It's not about a location note showing up in your notebook, it's that the notebook EXISTS, that NPCs have schedules, that you follow them and discover their lives. It's not about the moon looking like a sphereoid, it's about the moon BEING THERE.
These changes are curiosities at best! Modernizations! Majora's Mask has been etched in our minds not because of any of these infinitesimal things, but because of the core and defining mechanics, which are untouched! If every change in this remaster were present in the original, you'd STILL have formed the connection to it that you have, because none of them define it even a little bit!
Do the graphics hold up? They looked pretty rough in the screenshots I saw. Granted it's an old game but yeah....
Possibly, ask the programmers.
Plus the Classic N64 version is available on Wii and Wii U. For people who want that experience they can get it there. If you say "but I want the original experience but only with X changes" it becomes a balancing act and you can't please everyone.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Here's an option
Rerelease a classic game with better graphics and a functional framerate, just like OOT3D
I just pleased everyone
They managed perfectly fine with OOT 3D and the Master Quest.
Please stop. Some people clearly prefer the original mechanics and not because they're "misguided." If you prefer the new ones, then honestly? Good for you, I wish I was in a smaller minority because I have no reason to want anyone else to not enjoy the game as much as they could.
Don't, however, try and act like your opinion is somehow the right opinion and people who don't agree are just idiots. It is was it is: an opinion and my opinion is that many of these changes are for the worse but neither mine, nor your opinion in this circumstance is right. Neither are they really conflicting. Does it really effect your experience when I say I'm not going to enjoy the game as much as you?
I like the graphics. They're dark and muddled which is fitting.
I'm actually a little worried the improved will take something away from this game.
Did you miss the threads with people complaining about the new graphics? OoT3D had non-graphical improvements too, some that made the game easier.
Like I said, ask the programmers how hard it was. I don't know. Maybe it was difficult and that's why the decided not to this time around.
Banjotanooki
Member
Kinda off-topic but is anyone's Best Buy pre order of MM skull kid deluxe edition still showing up as release date of 12/31/2015?
Mine is and I'm worried I might not get it on time...
Mine is and I'm worried I might not get it on time...
Exactly.
And like the Star Wars special editions, I'm sure there are new fans who don't even notice the changes and still love the movies. There are probably Star Wars fans that have loved the films since 1977 that like the changes, too. But then there's me, who's obsessed with Star Wars and literally can't watch the special editions without cringing. Now we don't have a true, remastered edition of the original trilogy. Sure, I can go back and watch it on my old VHS, like I can play MM on my N64, but it would be nice if they could cater to both newcomers and purists in the case of both MM and Star Wars.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I am not going to "stop," and I certainly didn't call anyone an idiot. But I'll say what I think about the changes just as fervently as others might. Would it help if I threw an IMO on the end there? I figure that's pretty well implied, innit?
Anyone is welcome to think whatever they want, but it doesn't mean I'll agree, or even understand it.
Velcro Fly
Member
Yeah they haven't put the release date for the games yet which is odd considering the guides all have 2/13
Spieler Eins
Member
Among the big changes, this seems like the only good one.
You just made me imagine a Master Quest version of MM... A thought that simultaneously makes me yearn for it and sends a spine-tingling shiver through me at the same time.
One of the things you were just saying is people were "misguided" for disagreeing with you. All I've been saying is I don't like some of the changes without the need to deride others for having a different opinion. There's a large difference in stating an opinion on a game and stating an opinion on someone else because of their feelings about a game.
...How?
Solid SOAP
Member
I will agree with your solution, but combat the notion that the new version is 100% more "relaxed."
From what I've gathered, the bosses are harder, there is now more tension when underwater, and there are new mini-games and things to think about aside from what was in the original game. Every change they're making isn't necessarily a change to make things more difficult.
It's funny to see the same people complaining that the new game is too easy cry just as loudly that they "fucked up" the swimming. Now you have to be more mindful of your magic, and there likely will be magic bottle and such to find underwater. In the previous game I can seldom think of any scenario where I was running out of magic. Now, it seems much more rewarding to keep track of.
Whateva. I'm happy there will be changes. Majora's Mask is my favorite game of all time, I've played it a million times. I was worried that this new version would simply be a new coat of paint over the original game, but instead they went the extra mile to keep things interesting for new players (Bosses are changed, new areas to discover, changed layouts of areas previously found in the original game, etc) while making it more accessible for newcomers. Ya can't please everyone I guess!
Dat sarcasm. You were ignoring the obvious that the challenge provided in the original version of the game is what makes beating the game satisfying. There's no satisfaction in "winning" if you never had a chance to lose.
I don't understand this. The only reason you would use a suspended save is if you were planning on stopping. Otherwise, why not just keep playing?
Your battery is running out? Suspended save->turn off console. Even with a permanent save this makes no difference, you perma save and still turn off your console since your battery is running out.
IMO the best way to handle this would've been to nix owl saving altogether and let you use a suspend save at any time (except during boss fights/events/minigames of course).
SweetDonuts
Member
Eh, I'm just glad they ported it with better graphics etc. I haven't played MM since it was first released so a few tweaks aren't bothering me at all. I'm just excited to play it again.
Spieler Eins
Member
At least, from what I have experienced, Star Wars fans are reasonable enough to generally agree on the idiocy of the whole thing, instead of telling you to simply cover your eyes during CGI Jabba, so you can just feel like watching the originals! lol
He probably is going by its original title, Zelda: Gaiden which basically means Zelda Sidestory.
But that's irrelevant. It is considered by Nintendo as a full mainline title, a sequel to Ocarina of Time.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I never said anyone was misguided for disagreeing with me. I said I thought they had a "misplaced sense of what made the [original] game good." Or to rephrase, "I don't agree with you in regards to what made the original game good."
And I still don't! Let's not get caught up in phrasing semantics here.
Them wanting to make more profit on a remake doesn't mean we can't or won't complain about it or that the complaints are unjustified. OOT3D sold over 3m units globally, at full price, and would have been much cheaper to develop than say a new Mario title or ALBW. There's room to cater to the most loyal MM fans.
AFAIK OOT3D was very well received even by purists.
Its great that the first review of this is high 
.....but the reviewer calling out people upset with the changes isn't cool 
.
I am very excited to try this remake out but.....I'm not completely happy with the changes. Messing with the Deku and Zora forms really bothers me (as both were great to play as) and the Bombers Notebook popping up all the time is just......intrusive to me X(. I think its great they are expanding it for newcomers but it popping up all the time just ruins things a bit (like, you beat the Beaver race, and talk to the Beavers and after they give you the reward, right before they start talking again, the notebook randomly pops up ).
If they put that on the touch screen (or at least make it pop up on the touch screen with it happens), that wouldn't be so bad then :l.
The new save system seems pointless to me too; the Owl Saves worked great in the NA/EU versions of the game and the Song of Time saving was very satifying to do (did a lot in one day and end your game with playing that song). Now? You just save at feather/owl statures now instead of the classic SoT method. At least keep the original system in place for the people who played this before.
The graphical changes bother me a bit too, but I can't really comment on them yet. I mean, I loved how the Observatory looked in the N64 version and I love how the area where you see the Giants looked in the N64 too (dream-like effects and pink mist everywhere; gave the place a trance-like vibe to me). With the new version? Both are tampered with to look....I guess, more normal? It looks fine, but I like the old look better 
.
Either way, the changes OoT3D made are still carrying over and the new Song of Double Time is wonderful for the longer quests. I can't wait to try the remake out...but the fact it is a remake.....bothers me .
What I mean is, OoT3D is a Remaster; it is largely the same thing as the N64 version with visual upgrades, making the Water Temple more streamlined via Iron Boots being an item now, and the map/items on the touch screen.
With the Majora's Mask 3D? It is making to many changes to be a true remaster....and that is fine :l. There is the original version we can all play via the Wii VC or the N64 original, so if the changes bother people too much.....they can just play the original. But the problem is that Nintendo showed people that they can make great remasters, as shown with OoT3D and Star Fox 64 3D, so we all have the expectation that they would make MM3D like OoT3D :l.
It is nice we are getting a new version of this classic at all....so eh, what are you going to do.
.....but the reviewer calling out people upset with the changes isn't cool . I am very excited to try this remake out but.....I'm not completely happy with the changes
. Messing with the Deku and Zora forms really bothers me (as both were great to play as) and the Bombers Notebook popping up all the time is just......intrusive to me X(. I think its great they are expanding it for newcomers but it popping up all the time just ruins things a bit (like, you beat the Beaver race, and talk to the Beavers and after they give you the reward, right before they start talking again, the notebook randomly pops up ). If they put that on the touch screen (or at least make it pop up on the touch screen with it happens), that wouldn't be so bad then :l.
The new save system seems pointless to me too; the Owl Saves worked great in the NA/EU versions of the game and the Song of Time saving was very satifying to do (did a lot in one day and end your game with playing that song). Now? You just save at feather/owl statures now instead of the classic SoT method
. At least keep the original system in place for the people who played this before. The graphical changes bother me a bit too, but I can't really comment on them yet. I mean, I loved how the Observatory looked in the N64 version and I love how the area where you see the Giants looked in the N64 too (dream-like effects and pink mist everywhere; gave the place a trance-like vibe to me
). With the new version? Both are tampered with to look....I guess, more normal? It looks fine, but I like the old look better .Either way, the changes OoT3D made are still carrying over and the new Song of Double Time is wonderful for the longer quests
. I can't wait to try the remake out...but the fact it is a remake.....bothers me . What I mean is, OoT3D is a Remaster; it is largely the same thing as the N64 version with visual upgrades, making the Water Temple more streamlined via Iron Boots being an item now, and the map/items on the touch screen.
With the Majora's Mask 3D? It is making to many changes to be a true remaster....and that is fine :l. There is the original version we can all play via the Wii VC or the N64 original, so if the changes bother people too much.....they can just play the original. But the problem is that Nintendo showed people that they can make great remasters, as shown with OoT3D and Star Fox 64 3D
, so we all have the expectation that they would make MM3D like OoT3D :l. It is nice we are getting a new version of this classic at all....so eh, what are you going to do
.
TheMoon
Member
Its a hard choice depending on your prior experience with the game. N64 has the original intentions, original gameplay and mechanics. But its got crappier graphics and runs at 17fps pal / 19fps NTSC Max and dips to 7fps quite frequently.
3DS version is handheld, has quite amazing graphics for the console its on, a solid 30fps frame rate, camera control, improved bosses and some cool extra features and areas. But the core mechanics of the original (save system, bombers notebook, double song of time) have been completely overhauled.
As a new player, just get the 3DS one. You'll love it.
Banjotanooki
Member
Ah, gotcha. So any chance they'll change dates and release it? It IS coming out next week after all, lol.
StriKeVillain
Banned
People are entitled to their opinions, no matter how severe they are.
I know my enjoyment of the game won't be impacted by these changes so I'm counting down the days until my LE gets here.
Has solid 60fps been confirmed?
I know there are 60fps youtube videos around but someone had said that youtube had done interpolation on the 30fps footage, and I caught glimpses of that with some blurring...
Also keep in mind that Virtual Console version is much cheaper and you can play it with an actual controller.
Having to play MM on a small screen and a shitty circle pad might be the worst change of all
Aaronrules380
Member
I like how people are acting like Nintendo randomly decided to change these things,rather than making changes based on feedback by a lot of people who weren't happy with the original. Tons of people had problems with these aspects of the original
Typo. Sorry.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Maybe he's a purist.
I am just confused how any of these changes 'ruin' the game.
All seem like solid steps forward.
When did reviewers start scoring on a 1000-point scale?
So completely screw everyone who loved the original as it was then? That's not exactly the best way to go about it.
That's like getting a poorly received film like...oh I dunno, Fight Club which developed a cult following, and then focus testing a rerelease on people who weren't too cool with it, then releasing a completely re-edited version on Blu Ray as the only available version in that format. Because like, who cares about the old fans? They can just watch it on VHS!
Probably a poor comparison there, but still. Nintendo should have catered to the classic fans too. That's all there is to it.
Coffee Dog
Banned
convenience is not always an improvement.
Aaronrules380
Member
The people like you are the people who these changes affect the least though