entremet
Member
Yep. The magic meter for the Zora mask is annoying.
Majoras Mask 3D - Review Thread
- Thread starter Rich!
- Start date
"There are flaws but I'm gonna ignore them"
"Any change no matter how poorly thought out is good, but only because there are people saying it's bad and I hate when people say anything negative about Nintendo."
Really poor wording.
I was specifically complaining about them moving the scrub's flower further into the center of south clock town because of this very reason. Very good change.
Chizzanger
Member
I don't understand. You're disappointed that the game is easier to beat which would satisfy your self-stated number one reason you play games?
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
dude seems too enthusiastic about this :lol
Chezzymann
Member
I'm trying to remember how the save system works, the owl statues delete their temporary saves when you load them back up, right? I'd imagine that could be a problem with a portable system and the 'pick up and play' enviroment if you had to end the game suddenly due to whatever reason life brings. So I could see the reason the owl statue being changed to permanent saves be due to the different style of play portable gaming brings.
Although, as someone else said, I think you could just warp back to the first day and then resume the game in the middle of the dungeon with the arrows I think. So maybe it doesn't make sense.
Although, as someone else said, I think you could just warp back to the first day and then resume the game in the middle of the dungeon with the arrows I think. So maybe it doesn't make sense.
Robot Pants
Member
9.25 are they fucking kidding with that scale?
At the risk of sounding like a purist myself, I do agree with the bolded--a lot of the "puzzle" of the first game was kind of stalking the NPC's and figuring out how you would go about helping them.
As someone that is revisiting the game after 5+ completions, I don't mind the change because I would already know where to go in the first place, however I can see some of the magic being lost. If this makes the game more accessible to a larger audience, I think it's a worthwhile change. The only people that might potentially notice the difference are people that played and loved the original, and the remake can't take away from that initial experience.
Is this a troll? Do you like not understand what the word satisfaction means?
How is avoiding the new save system any different than selecting between Easy, Normal, Hard? Do you just turn on the game pick Easy mode then complain because a game is easy? Do you use cheat codes just because they exist? Do you go magic/pyro everytime you roll a character in Dark Souls? Our choices affect difficulty and now players who had trouble have a reprieve.
nckillthegrimace
Member
7 is average on the GI scale, which is stupid. It actively encourages the 7-9 review nonsense.
Nothing really nonsensical about it, people have the 7-9 scale ingrained into their heads by now. If the scale's communicating information then it's doing its job.
Again, its not just about that. As I explained in my long ass post a bit back, the changes actually compromise the emotional impact that the game is originally designed to deliver.
The people playing MM3D for the first time will be having a (IMO, negatively) different emotional experience to those who played through the original.
Nothing passive aggressive here, all I'm saying here is that these things I mentioned are mostly optional, you're not crippling yourself for not doing them. The only thing they add is convenience and if someone is a fan of the original to the point where these changes bother you, you can just ignore them.
If someone likes having to kill time until a certain time of the day, there's nothing stopping them. You could use double time before, but you could not use it if you wanted to fuck around or do something. Just like Shenmue and Shenmue II.
The bombers giving you rumors about side quests, I see how it goes both ways, it does negate the need for a strategy guide while giving you little more than a tip that helps you get started.
You only get these rumors if you talk to the bombers, so they're completely optional, but they do make side quests slightly, and I do mean slightly, more accessible. The notebook never tells you anything people don't tell you by the way and that includes locations on the map.
Permanent saves are a necessity in a portable game. It does open the way for people to abuse it, but I don't think it's right to force someone who can't access a plug to charge to either quit playing or lose progress.
These do take away some of the impact of any failures since you can, if you want revert to a save. Personally, it didn't make any difference to me so far, I never had any need to do it.
I guess my point is, the game isn't any less about the moon falling down, the clock ticking, the endless cycle and the daily lives of everyone in Termina. The game barely gets any easier, it just has some conveniences and a lot of improvements, that in my opinion, barely, if at all, affect the sense of pressure and oppression of the original.
I completely disagree that the emotional experience is different, or to be more precise, there are only tiny changes (the save system) that might pop up in a situation where you would equate loading a precious save to avoid repeating a cycle and this comes from being on a handheld.
m_shortpants
Member
People wonder why Skyward Sword has so much hand holding? People complaining that a game like Majora's Mask is too hard is why. Exploration and discovery is dead.
Aaronrules380
Member
How can you judge this when those people haven't played the game, and you aren't one of those people.
It came back with A Link Between Worlds. Game has barely any hand holding.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
"I should be able to whine without being insulted. I would never insult anyone. That guy is such a dick."
Chezzymann
Member
But its super easy as a compromise.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I've talked about this before, but I'd like to caution again against trying to make other people reproduce your subjective emotional experience with a game from fifteen years ago. Besides the fact it's extremely unlikely that any individual gameplay mechanic is the reason for why a person formed a connection to Majora's Mask, and rather the whole package (which seems to be largely intact), the time of your life, the person you are, and any number of other factors are hugely involved in why you have the connection to this game that you do.
It is entirely possible, likely even, that brand new players of Majora's Mask 3D will love it for all the reasons we loved Majora's Mask when it first came out. In fact, it may be even easier for them to love it, because various tweaks have been made that improve accessibility, and the only reason anyone is attached to the original features in their exact state is that they are attached to the game as a whole, to that first experience. And it's an experience that is wholly personal and impossible to reproduce in a new human being just via features and bullet points.
Majora's Mask is still right there, behind all the tweaks. No new player will be shocked by them, they won't know they were even tweaked, and they have no reason to. For as much as you and others might love the game, a LOT of people really hated it for mechanical and frustrating reasons, and if these tweaks can chip into newcomers that might have fallen into that bucket, then fantastic.
The original isn't going anywhere. Try to experience the new game like a person who never played Majora's Mask, if you can. As a title inspired by the original. If you're so aware of the original's characteristics, a rote graphical update would be pretty boring, wouldn't it? Think of it as a new altered quest, and take the new mechanics for what they are. If you want a Classic Mode, well, it's sitting right there on the Virtual Console.
Because
- I've been playing the original game for 15 years
- I know of the changes in this version
- due to the above two points, I can make a definitive conclusion on how point B will affect the game.
Its not hard. For example, introducing more help in the bombers notebook to the extent they have significantly changes the original experience where you did not have any of that help and you had to work it all out on your own. There's nothing to argue with there.
My main reason for playing the game, but not my main mode of enjoyment of the game. It may seem odd that they're at odds with eachother but there you go. The thing is, I'd feel like an idiot for not using all the available options to me, but using all the available options is a lot less fun, so it makes the overall game a shittier experience, you dig?
Let's assume you like some sort of action game, like say, Bayonetta. Imagine they remade Bayonnetta in 1080p 60FPS with new levels and combos. The only difference is, there's only an easy mode. I wouldn't say "Hey! you know what you can do? Play while standing on your head! That will make the game just as hard as you remember it!"
The end result, regardless of what you say is my reason for doing so, is that I enjoy the final product less because of the changes and as a result I will voice my complaints. I don't hate everything they've done with the game. The fishing spots are nice and other than a few weird oddities the games looks much nicer.
Perma saves aren't a nessecity at all. If you need to stop playing because of battery a temp save literally does the exact same thing until you reboot the game.
The game is less about time passing time IMO, since it can be so easily manipulated, so yes the feel of the game is changed.
I'd like to add, that this whole discussion seems pointless. In general this is group A saying "I don't like these changes" and group B saying "I don't like that you don't like those changes!" Like why bother? There's literally no point. I know other people are excited about the changes and I haven't once said they can't be, in fact I'm glad they can enjoy something that I cannot. On the other hand, I am just airing my own personal opinions about these changes and while they absolutely are up for discussion (as this is a forum) it just seems benign as you're not going to change my opinion on the game and I doubt I'll change yours (which is why I'm not trying.)
PhoenixDawn
Member
I don't really like a lot of the changes in this version. The save change is whatever, it seems to be an incorrect attempt at 'fixing' the save system, but that's more personal preference. I don't understand why they took away playing the song of time saving the game though, it doesn't seem like having that also be a save (or at least giving the option) would have had any impact on their vision for the save system.
On other notes, the Bomber notebook being basically an entire cheat checklist is a bit disappointing. I would have been fine if it just gave you slight pushes towards where to start, but it seems like it's more of an NPC tracker that shows their every movement and order to carry out the sidequests. That makes it seem like they're more chores than anything rather than cool little discoveries you can stumble upon by following around NPCs. I feel like that will push new players to view the game in a more negative light as they'll just think the quests are tedious point A to point B missions without understanding any of the backstory of them. Plus, it was great talking to everyone and randomly discovering that a person could give you a mask! I know that feel is partially in this version, but with the Bomber notebook being pushed harder on you from the start I get the feeling that a newcomer will just use it as a crutch without ever removing it to explore freely.
On other notes, the Bomber notebook being basically an entire cheat checklist is a bit disappointing. I would have been fine if it just gave you slight pushes towards where to start, but it seems like it's more of an NPC tracker that shows their every movement and order to carry out the sidequests. That makes it seem like they're more chores than anything rather than cool little discoveries you can stumble upon by following around NPCs. I feel like that will push new players to view the game in a more negative light as they'll just think the quests are tedious point A to point B missions without understanding any of the backstory of them. Plus, it was great talking to everyone and randomly discovering that a person could give you a mask! I know that feel is partially in this version, but with the Bomber notebook being pushed harder on you from the start I get the feeling that a newcomer will just use it as a crutch without ever removing it to explore freely.
There's a part of me that wishes MM had never been remade so I wouldn't have to endure the endless "they ruined the intent" arguments in every thread about it.
Then I realize that I'll soon be playing a great looking remake of the greatest game of all time - with some changes that will make it less tedious for even a fan like me - and 'm glad it exists.
Then I realize that I'll soon be playing a great looking remake of the greatest game of all time - with some changes that will make it less tedious for even a fan like me - and 'm glad it exists.
We just will have to disagree then. I think the changes will make it more likely that new players catch on to these sidequest, become involved, and care what happens. I think it is more likely players will put stopping the moon on the backburner and get involved and collect all the mask if you point them in the right direction and let them skip waiting 5 or 6 minute for something to happen.
Aaronrules380
Member
This arguement isn't really sound though. One could argue that your experience with the original game is causing you to be very reactive to any changes. And many, many people were turned off by Majora's Mask because of the things in the original that they are changing. That you weren't is completely fucking irrelevant. Everyone is different, and experiences things differently. What for you was tense may just be frustrating for someone else. You're basing all of this around your experience with the game, but your experience isn't the same as anyone else's, even the other people playing the game at the same time
Those points have already been discussed in the thread.
Them being optional doesn't help new players who won't know what the changes are or why they are detrimental and will go along with them. All gamers instinctively take whatever actions they can to make the game as easy as possible. People here are concerned that new players will not truly have experienced Majora's Mask. Convenience is not necessarily a good thing. For games to have a sense of achievement after completing a difficult task or making a discovery, they also need to have some kind of punishment - and that almost always comes in the tedium of having to replay something you've already seen before. Take away the hardship and you take away the ultimate satisfaction.
Permanent saves aren't a necessity, *suspend saves* are. A suspend save cannot be returned to time and time again, it is deleted immediately upon load, with only the original permasave - that may have been made much longer ago - available upon failure. This solution maximises convenience while allowing game designers to precisely define the amount of punishment and reward they want to dole out throughout a game.
I did edit my post, but even so, I don't want to argue. So read this:
THIS GUY GETS IT.
Its turned from being a world to explore by yourself into a bloody hand holding checklist. If its as explicit in its help as it seems to be then its a travesty.
Aaronrules380
Member
From what I've heard, it literally tells you nothing until you've already discovered it yourself. It's more there so that if you hit a wall in a sidequest and put it on the backburner for a while, you don't have to go about the whole process of remembering where everything was and and when again in order to complete it
I only played a little bit of Majora's Mask on Gamecube and didn't really like it but I'm excited to try it again. I didn't really like OoT either until the 3DS remake. All the changes seem good to me. Doubt it'll top Skyward Sword or Wind Waker as far as 3D games go for me.
And it was much easier than Skyward Sword.
That sounds like an improvement to me, I hate having to remember that sort of stuff.
And it was much easier than Skyward Sword.
That sounds like an improvement to me, I hate having to remember that sort of stuff.
Solid SOAP
Member
I'll agree with this. The original game allows you to "pick difficulties" in a way as well. I've never been able to beat this game without utilizing the reverse song of time, but it's an added challenge that I'm going to put upon myself when I play the new game.
Shovel Knight allows you to beat the game with savepoints, or you could beat the game and destroy them. Same thing, imo.
Its still a fundamental change that significantly alters the original experience. No two ways about it.
Want to know where Anju and Kafei will be in the N64 version? Follow them. Work it out.
3DS version? Ahhhh fuck it, just check the notebook. You've even got a bloody map of where they are, just in case you were sleeping.
Aaronrules380
Member
It can be, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and regardless, it depends on how you play. I don't get why people think that they need to use a resource like this just because it's there. It's a perfectly viable option to ignore it if you don't like it, and if that makes the experience better for you than that what you'll do. I never, ever get why some people are so opposed to giving people options. Also consider that this game might also have in mind the people who DIDN'T enjoy the original experience, and not just those who did
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Yeah, but... who cares? Saying "something is different" is meaningless. What you're implying, obviously, is that these are BAD changes. And I just don't see it. I mean, if meeting someone once shows every location they will be at for the rest of the cycle, that's kinda bogus. But if you only see when they'll be doing "something," just like the original, and your notebook makes a note of the place for you once you actually find them, what is the complaint here? That you didn't have to write it down in the little snakeskin notebook you keep next to you with a pen and paper?
Extra Sauce
Member
I can see how someone who believes Majora's Mask was a perfectly designed game would be frustrated by some of these changes.
I have mixed feelings myself. Never even finished Majora's Mask actually, got stuck before the last dungeon or something. I am feeling more inclined to dust off my N64 and check out my save to be honest but I probably don't have the proper cables.
I have mixed feelings myself. Never even finished Majora's Mask actually, got stuck before the last dungeon or something. I am feeling more inclined to dust off my N64 and check out my save to be honest but I probably don't have the proper cables.
Aaronrules380
Member
Does the noteback act as a permanent tracker, or just record locations after you've already met them there? Also, I don't see how that this is any different to the already existent option of guides and walkthroughs. People who don't like it won't use it, and people who are stuck will.
Chizzanger
Member
I was simply asking for clarification; if I in anyway wronged you with my message board post I'm sorry :c. I also know what satisfaction means.
Thank you for the clarification, that makes sense.
You have to go out of your way to find a guide and walkthrough. Whereas this will now be the new default experience for all new players of the game.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Exactly.
Which is why many people i've talked to have told me things they didn't like about the original Majora's Mask. It was difficult at certain points which led to them losing interest in finishing the game. Many of them felt it was too frustrating.
I've played the original and bought it back in 2000, and while I enjoyed every minute of it, I can see why changes would need to be made for a new audience. Not everyone sees the game in the same light as those who complain about the changes in the game. I doubt my 15 year old nephew will lose the "magic" that the original brought because it'll be his first time playing this great game. There's still plenty of great moments left in this title from the original. If you don't like it though, don't buy it. Some changes are a little rough but I can sense a lot of overreaction from a bunch of fans.
Solid SOAP
Member
I don't understand the complaints made towards the changes to the song of double time, now that you can choose exactly where in time you wish to go.
I have a very specific memory of trying to do the Anju and Kafei side mission at least 2 or 3 times. My bad, I messed up, so I had to go back in time and try again. That's a good enough punishment, no? But in addition to having to go back in time, you have to wait. Now, I do love Majora's Mask, but that's simply just sapping up your time, being forced to wait until time gets to the point you need it to be. Needless padding. Now, you can go exactly in time where you wish to go. A fine change, imo.
I have a very specific memory of trying to do the Anju and Kafei side mission at least 2 or 3 times. My bad, I messed up, so I had to go back in time and try again. That's a good enough punishment, no? But in addition to having to go back in time, you have to wait. Now, I do love Majora's Mask, but that's simply just sapping up your time, being forced to wait until time gets to the point you need it to be. Needless padding. Now, you can go exactly in time where you wish to go. A fine change, imo.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Good! GOOD.
What are we seriously complaining about here? Honestly? That the game makes a note of something for you that you just discovered for yourself? That it's no longer easy to forget things you did? Is that the complaint? "Shit, I wanted to forget that!!!"
TriAceJP
Member
It's not a main line Zelda game.
The Red Wizard
Member
Is it possible to get a 'pure' experience by just not looking at the bomber's notebook? I only completed the game once, several years ago, so I'm struggling to remember if the bomber's notebook did more than help you record people's activities. If this is the case, I can just rely on my brain to remember everything, or make my own book IRL, and play it the way it's meant to be played.
Make me suffer a terrible fate if I'm wrong.
Make me suffer a terrible fate if I'm wrong.
Aaronrules380
Member
THe fallacy here being the assumption that people will use it just because they can. Plenty of people won't do this anyways. Not every new player will use a feature just because it's there.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Of course it is.
Well, keeping a coherent mental model in your brain about when events occur could be considered a challenge.
Haha
Its the sequel to Ocarina of Time. Of course its a mainline Zelda game.
Also, Hyrule Historia proves it is a mainline title. So yeah.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Is there a comprehensive set of changes anywhere? While some of the new changes sound like a bummer, I'm glad to finally have the game on the go with good performance.
I'm looking forward again to my favorite 3D Zelda.
I'm looking forward again to my favorite 3D Zelda.
Aaronrules380
Member
Or it could be considered frustrating and tedious, especially if you get to a point where you need to put it on the backburner and then go back to it much later. Stop assuming everyone thinks the same way you do, and plays the same way you do, or that your way of playing was superior to others.
It won't be the same experience for new players? Of course not. They could've kept everything the same except the graphics, but the experience would still not be the same, because they're experiencing it a different time with a different perspective. I love this revisionist history made by the fans of MM where nobody got frustrated and quit the game because of the things they're changing. Where everybody who loved the game was happy with every bit of it.