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Majora's Mask 3DS announced!

Oh God. I love the direct sequel games. They're way more open ended, personal and different.

Phantom Hourglass was pretty rough though. :\

Oh me too. I love the "fulfill your destiny" ones, but I love the personal ones, possibly even more. It's a little hard to compare since they have different themes, but I definitely connect with the direct sequel ones on a different level.

PH had gameplay problems that prevented me from liking it for any other reason though...
 

zeldablue

Member
Oh me too. I love the "fulfill your destiny" ones, but I love the personal ones, possibly even more. It's a little hard to compare since they have different themes, but I definitely connect with the direct sequel ones on a different level.

PH had gameplay problems that prevented me from liking it for any other reason though...
I really liked Linebeck and the Ghost Ship leading people astray thing. But, yikes. Aonuma was comparing this title to MM and I was excited for like 2 seconds. And then I don't know what happened. It's the only Zelda title with 0 replay value for me. Which is sad because I'd like to experience the story again. :p

The "mainline" titles are starting to tick me off because they all follow the same exact path. They really need to mix it up for Zelda U. Hopefully some MM hype from fans rubs off on Zelda U's development team.
 

Christopher

Member
I really liked Linebeck and the Ghost Ship leading people astray thing. But, yikes. Aonuma was comparing this title to MM and I was excited for like 2 seconds. And then I don't know what happened. It's the only Zelda title with 0 replay value for me. Which is sad because I'd like to experience the story again. :p

The "mainline" titles are starting to tick me off because they all follow the same exact path. They really need to mix it up for Zelda U. Hopefully some MM hype from fans rubs off on Zelda U's development team.

It's been the same shit since Link to the Past - collect a red, blue, and green item - sword - collect other shit - gannon/boss. Majora's Mask was SUCH a fresh breathe of air into the series...I agree I hope the next one mixes it up a bit
 

Heroman

Banned
I really liked Linebeck and the Ghost Ship leading people astray thing. But, yikes. Aonuma was comparing this title to MM and I was excited for like 2 seconds. And then I don't know what happened. It's the only Zelda title with 0 replay value for me. Which is sad because I'd like to experience the story again. :p

The "mainline" titles are starting to tick me off because they all follow the same exact path. They really need to mix it up for Zelda U. Hopefully some MM hype from fans rubs off on Zelda U's development team.

MM was a product of its time and I don't think Zelda team will do something like anytime soon.
 

zeldablue

Member
Link is dead: unlikely. There's absolutely no evidence to support this idea and there is evidence that he lived to be an adult. If you want to assume that the game is about grief because of Link, the more obvious answer is that it's because Link is dealing with the loss of a friend (Navi).

I think that's what most people believe. That or the death of his childhood/innocence/idealisms.

Or the loss of his identity as a super important hero. Or all of the above. The game seems to revolve around getting rid of cynicism by believing and trusting yourself and others. That theme trumps almost all the death symbolism.

MM was a product of its time and I don't think Zelda team will do something like anytime soon.

Aonuma said he wanted to do something new. I hope he means story wise as well. It's not as awesome of a world when you play it out over and over again in pretty much the same way every time for each mainline Zelda.
 

Christopher

Member
I think that's what most people believe. That or the death of his childhood/innocence/idealisms.

Or the loss of his identity as a super important hero. Or all of the above. The game seems to revolve around getting rid of cynicism by believing and trusting yourself and others. That theme trumps almost all the death symbolism.



Aonuma said he wanted to do something new. I hope he means story wise as well. It's not as awesome of a world when you play it out over and over again in pretty much the same way every time for each mainline Zelda.

Now we're stretching it.

Although until this thread I never knew Zelda gave him the Ocarina to change the events that would transpire in OoT. That was a good tidbit I got here.
 
It's been the same shit since Link to the Past - collect a red, blue, and green item - sword - collect other shit - gannon/boss. Majora's Mask was SUCH a fresh breathe of air into the series...I agree I hope the next one mixes it up a bit

What was really great about the first six games was that they had some pretty good diversity in terms of plot MacGuffins:

LoZ: Collect 8 shards of the Triforce of Wisdom; use the Triforce to enter Ganon's lair on Death Mountain and retrieve the Triforce of Power
AoL: Place 6 crystals in the 6 palaces; retrieve the Triforce of Courage from the Great Palace
LttP: Gather the 3 symbols of virtue; rescue the 7 maidens; retrieve the Triforce from Ganon
LA: Defeat the 8 Nightmares and gather the 8 Sirens' instruments; use the instruments to enter the egg and wake the Wind Fish
OoT: Gather the 3 spiritual stones and the Ocarina of Time; cleanse the 5 temples and awaken the 5 sages; seal Ganon away
MM: Free the spirits of the 4 giants; gather them at the Clock Tower to stop the moon
 

Heroman

Banned
I



Aonuma said he wanted to do something new. I hope he means story wise as well. It's not as awesome of a world when you play it out over and over again in pretty much the same way every time for each mainline Zelda.

He has that about every zelda. And every zelda is similar in a way but at the same time very different and Zelda will be the same.While almost every console zelda ends with link ,zelda, and Ganon, the way they get there is very different
 

zeldablue

Member
Now we're stretching it.

Although until this thread I never knew Zelda gave him the Ocarina to change the events that would transpire in OoT. That was a good tidbit I got here.

Why is that a stretch? Zelda sent Link back to reclaim his childhood so he could be happy and be himself. But I doubt Link could bounce back to being a blissfully ignorant happy kid. He was "burdened by his secret journey" from OoT. It says so right there in the Zelda bible. :p Poor guy was trying to be happy, which is why the Happy Mask Salesman is so...important.

I wouldn't believe the thought at all if it wasn't for Nintendo straight up saying "Link was pretty sad/burdened." He apparently didn't bounce back, like...at all until MM was over...and then maybe not even after that. I don't think Navi was the sole problem, he probably just needed someone who "understood" him.

But then we meet Skull kid who "understands" Link better than anyone else could.
Hyrule Historia really spilled the beans on the Hero of Time.
 
So I'm sort of a unicorn. Never touched or completed a Zelda game ever. Are these 3D ports a good place to start?

Ocarina of Time (and by extension OoT 3D) is an excellent entry point for the series. It's not my personal favorite (that would be MM), but it's a terrific place to start. For a 2D game, A Link to the Past is a great starting point.

That being said, you really can start anywhere and be perfectly fine. I would recommend NOT starting with Majora's Mask or Wind Waker, because the former is a logical extension of Ocarina, and the latter has plot points and emotional ties to Ocarina.
 

zruben

Banned
Ocarina of Time (and by extension OoT 3D) is an excellent entry point for the series. It's not my personal favorite (that would be MM), but it's a terrific place to start. For a 2D game, A Link to the Past is a great starting point.

That being said, you really can start anywhere and be perfectly fine. I would recommend NOT starting with Majora's Mask or Wind Waker, because the former is a logical extension of Ocarina, and the latter has plot points and emotional ties to Ocarina.

also, Majora's Mask breaks too many conventions of a "zelda game"... that's a GOOD thing, but not a good thing as an entry point.
 

Kinsei

Banned
So I'm sort of a unicorn. Never touched or completed a Zelda game ever. Are these 3D ports a good place to start?

Pretty much anywhere is fine. There are references to past games, but even with a direct sequel like this game not getting those references won't hamper your enjoyment of the game.
 

Neiteio

Member
So I'm sort of a unicorn. Never touched or completed a Zelda game ever. Are these 3D ports a good place to start?
I'd definitely recommend starting with Ocarina of Time 3D, for the Zeldas with 3D gameplay.

I'd also recommend A Link Between Worlds for 2D gameplay. Incredibly addictive and looks gorgeous in stereoscopic 3D at 60 fps.
 
So I'm sort of a unicorn. Never touched or completed a Zelda game ever. Are these 3D ports a good place to start?

Play Ocarina of Time 3D, then try A Link Between Worlds.

If you really like OoT3D then try Majora's Mask 3D, and if that's too off for you then try Twilight Princess (available on Wii, more aligned with OoT story and gameplay wise). If you come away liking all three, then try The Wind Waker (available on Wii U) and Skyward Sword (available on Wii, requires Wii MotionPlus).

If you really like ALBW then try A Link to the Past (available on Wii U Virtual Console) and Link's Awakening (available on 3DS Virtual Console). If you come away liking these three, you might also like Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages (available on 3DS Virtual Console) and The Minish Cap (available on Wii U Virtual Console).
 

georly

Member
Link's Awakening is the best starting point.

Walking into a pot and having the game yell at you is pretty annoying for first timers. It has a lot of archaic gameplay systems that are hard to put up with after modern games. For the time it was fantastic, but it's really hard for someone who's never played zelda (yet has played modern video games) to get into. I do *NOT* recommend it for first timers.

Even something like A Link to the Past is hard because it doesn't hold your hand and tell you what you need to solve puzzles, so people who played nothing but 3D zelda games have a hard time with it their first time.

I'd say Ocarina of Time is a really good entry point, if not Wind Waker or Twilight Princess (which may as well be OoT2 to anyone who has never played a zelda game).
 
Woah... Can you cite that regarding the devs that quit over Mario 64?
I can, although let me tell you you really tested my memory here, I was luckily able to trace it:

How many people were on the Super Mario 64 team?

Giles Goddard:
Probably about 15 people in the end. Probably not as many as people think. But then again there was some other people doing stuff behind the scenes. Compared with Zelda Ocarina Of Time, it was a very small team.

What was the atmosphere like during the final days of coding?

Giles Goddard:
I think there was a lot of panicking going on. But it was still very organised, there was lots of people working very hard. I think it was quite laid back at the very end, not many bugs, gameplay was sorted out on time. One of the programmers had quite a hard time of it – two of them decided not to make games anymore because of Mario 64. Not because they didn’t enjoy it, but because they’d burnt themselves out.
Source: http://pixelatron.com/blog/the-making-of-super-mario-64-full-giles-goddard-interview-ngc/

Giles Goddard is the dude that did the Super Mario 64 face for the game, and the foreigner in Nintendo EAD back then that didn't get to marry Miyamoto's daughter. Har har (I'm assuming because there just weren't enough daughters).
I really hate the Link is dead theory; especially with having a degree in psychology. Their supporting arguments are so incredibly thin but so many people don't even question the holes. I wrote a point by point counter to that video a while back:
Very well written, thanks.
Good stuff.

I'm all about thematic analysis and extrapolation, (I'll link to my unoriginal essay like I do in every Majora thread ) but it seems strange that people want to reduce a complex piece of work into a single simple thesis like LINK IS DEAD, even if the evidence is contradictory and the statement has no meaning beyond gaining some minor shock value.

Trying to fit a work into a fan theory diminishes it, I think.
Fan theories are interesting brain exercises for whoever came up with them and obviously spent too much free time trying to connect the dots, some of them are actually awesome because once you think about it they're actually pretty likely, or at least corroborated massively.

The "Link is dead" theory really isn't, for a lot of reasons, but although I find it overrated it's not horrible. I've seen shitty fan theories being stretched, trust me. And the "Link is dead" theory only gets heat from me because it's so damn popular for some reason.

I don't know... Split timeline was for all means and purposes unconfirmed for some time because Nintendo spoke so little about how things actually connected. But Hyrule Historia was confirmation to what some of us believed was the case all along, because it simply made sense.

And sometimes you have stuff that is 200% implied but never specifically connected the dots, some MM stuff for for me is a fact, for others it's a theory.

If on SS, characters didn't realize and game didn't made you realize ingame that was
old impa
, then people would pick on similarities but it would be a "theory" for some still.
Majora's Mask actually took about a year to develop. The whole idea was to reuse the engine and assets of Ocarina of Time to remake a new Zelda in one year (Aonuma wanted to do a new game instead of Ura Zelda which was a remix)

They began programming in Feb 1999, and started with ideas in Jan 1999. Ocarina of Time was released in November of 1998, and the team basically split in two to work on Ura Zelda (Master Quest) and Zelda Gaiden (Majora's Mask)

Majora's Mask released first in Japan in April 2000, (development started in Feb 1999). It was delayed about 6 months for localization. The U.S. release at least launched the same day as PS2.

http://www.glitterberri.com/majoras...s-always-bringing-something-new-to-the-table/
How long did development take?

Aonuma: I looked it up. We started programming the game on February 1st last year.

Miyamoto: We’d been discussing different ideas about a month prior to that. So, it took around a year, all in all.​

So, the staff mostly carried over from the last game?

Koizumi: That’s right. And we had some newcomers who participated as well.

Miyamoto: Actually, we started out by cutting the Ocarina of Time development team in half and adding some new people. Once we realized that our initial setup just wasn’t going to work, I was forced to recall the original team members. In the end, around 70% of the team was made up of people who had worked on Ocarina of Time. Because I was producing the entire game, I had the final say in everything. To put it simply, it was up to me to say “We’re not done here yet.” I just had to wait until everything was finished. Once the opening meetings were done with, I didn’t really contribute anything. That being said, during the latter half of development, I’d occasionally complain about this and that. Just like a tester. “Just think of me as a member of the Mario Club,” I’d say. [Laughs]​

More Majora's Mask interviews
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/nom_mm.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/noa_mm.html
http://www.glitterberri.com/ocarina-of-time/how-ura-zelda-became-majoras-mask/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/03/26/gdc-2004-the-history-of-zelda
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/mmleungjournal.html (localization)
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/ds/zelda/0/0
Thank you for that.

I've read plenty of those, but somehow the 18 month development span for Majora Mask seems to be a common misconception, I've even double checked it before claiming it.

But that clears it forever in my head.



I can't wait for the Iwata Asks interviews for this game!


EDIT: By the way, don't you have the interview that states that the artistic direction behind Majora Mask was influenced by Hellsing?

I remember reading that years ago but never managed to find it again.
 

georly

Member
I can, although let me tell you you really tested my memory here, I was luckily able to trace it:

Source: http://pixelatron.com/blog/the-making-of-super-mario-64-full-giles-goddard-interview-ngc/

Giles Goddard is the dude that did the Super Mario 64 face for the game, and the foreigner in Nintendo EAD back then that didn't get to marry Miyamoto's daughter. Har har (I'm assuming because there just weren't enough daughters).Very well written, thanks.Fan theories are interesting brain exercises for whoever came up with them and obviously spent too much free time trying to connect the dots, some of them are actually awesome because once you think about it they're actually pretty likely, or at least corroborated massively.

Mario 64, one of the greatest games of all time, defining how 3D games are played for years to come, made by 15 people.

Assassin's creed unity, hot garbage, made by 4000 people.

Too many cooks... NSFW
 
Mario 64, one of the greatest games of all time, defining how 3D games are played for years to come, made by 15 people.

Assassin's creed unity, hot garbage, made by 4000 people.
That's certainly a pattern. I reckon RE4 team was 40 people, RE6 team had 600 people.

It'll just keep happening the more videogames turn AAA, which is why for the most part I like indie and smaller stuff that manages to deliver, and manages to surprise me as well.


The more people you have the less focus you'll have and the least amount of directing time each staff member will be eligible for, it's like going from a 50 piece puzzle, where you look at the pieces and can see where they'll go into a 1000 piece one.

Most directors are not good at big puzzles and even if they were, they wouldn't have the energy, you'd need several directors subdivide the projects into a lot of small pieces.

Any company is lucky to have 3 good directors, so yeah, these games are impossible to come together in the end and achieve their original premise without sacrificing a lot.

Not to say Mario 64 team shouldn't have been 30 people instead, but you sure couldn't have 5 dudes doing the camera instead of one, it was very important to keep that part focused.

The more people the less passionate the project will be - it'll feel like a assembly line, you don't even have to care other than completing what you have at hand, whatever's wrong someone will pick it up for you, except in the end not really.

That interview actually has a gold gem for that:

They have a very good project management system – the director spends most of his time thinking what needs to be done when, and by who. He’ll go and talk to people and go off and do it, and they’ll supply feedback and say whether schedules need changing.

There was a definite someone supposed to be doing something at a certain time. Because NCL have these directors whose main job is to organise stuff, you’re allowed a certain amount of leeway, so you can go to them and request 2 or 3 weeks for what you’re working on. That was one good thing about EAD work – they appreciated that projects were dynamic like that, not saying here’s your schedule stick to it.
Source: http://pixelatron.com/blog/the-making-of-super-mario-64-full-giles-goddard-interview-ngc/

That's why these games have personality, it's not just a job, developers feel part of the project, for that the development group can't be too big, people have to know each other and... They have to feel whatever they're doing makes a difference.

How do you achieve that with hundreds of dudes working on it? Just a job.
 

zeldablue

Member
That's why these games have personality, it's not just a job, developers feel part of the project, for that the development group can't be too big, people have to know each other and... They have to feel whatever they're doing makes a difference.

How do you achieve that with hundreds of dudes working on it? Just a job.

Yeah. A lot of games feel a bit soulless. And I think development size has a lot to do with that.

That's what I liked about Koizumi and Miyamoto with OoT. They had no clue what they were doing. Koizumi ended up doing all the character modeling and animation for Link, simply because no one else really knew how to do 3D. And the guy was like...20 years old at the time. They all just threw stuff together and it ended up being really really special.

Even in Mario Galaxy you have Koizumi sneaking into the office at night and adding special gems into the game. Or the guy who secretly put a fishing minigame into OoT while no one else was paying attention.

These people weren't working because it was their job. It feels like they just really really wanted to make something that was important to them.

@___@ I love you Nintendo.
 
Yeah. A lot of games feel a bit soulless. And I think development size has a lot to do with that.

That's what I liked about Koizumi and Miyamoto with OoT. They had no clue what they were doing. Koizumi ended up doing all the character modeling and animation for Link, simply because no one else really knew how to do 3D. And the guy was like...20 years old at the time. They all just threw stuff together and it ended up being really really special.

Even in Mario Galaxy you have Koizumi sneaking into the office at night and adding special gems into the game. Or the guy who secretly put a fishing minigame into OoT while no one else was paying attention.

These people weren't working because it was their job. It feels like they just really really wanted to make something that was important to them.

@___@ I love you Nintendo.

Or the creator of Pokemon who just threw Mew into the game at the last minute. The game was all finished, he took a look at the programming, and realized that there was actually space for one more Pokemon. So he just goes "F it!," throws Mew in, and doesn't even tell anyone! The other execs didn't even know.

Or in Ocarina of Time in the Castle Courtyard, where there are pictures of Mario, Peach, Yoshi and Luigi in one of the windows. This is a game that they restarted from SCRATCH at least twice (or was it three times?), were stressed from release date deadlines that had to be met to get the special Zelda game out in time, changing things around until the very last minute, and were improvising as they went. Somebody at some point found the time to program in these pictures in a place that you can only see from looking at the right angle through a single side window in a location in the game that you will only visit ONE TIME. Why? Probably cause they thought it'd be cool.
They were right.
 
Or the creator of Pokemon who just threw Mew into the game at the last minute. The game was all finished, he took a look at the programming, and realized that there was actually space for one more Pokemon. So he just goes "F it!," throws Mew in, and doesn't even tell anyone! The other execs didn't even know.

Actually there wasn't room, but when they deleted the beta testing stuff off the ROM then there was room. So they deleted the beta testing stuff, threw Mew into the game. Then they couldn't even test the game to see if adding Mew had messed up the game. Instead of getting mad they were just like "heck with it, ship it"
 
That's what I liked about Koizumi and Miyamoto with OoT. They had no clue what they were doing. Koizumi ended up doing all the character modeling and animation for Link, simply because no one else really knew how to do 3D. And the guy was like...20 years old at the time. They all just threw stuff together and it ended up being really really special.
That was really an extraordinary situation to be in, not unlike to when Miyamoto started as a game designer prior to said job description existing... A few years before, hence he had to do everything, programming, graphics, music before he gradually was relieved of said duties.

By the time 3D came everything had fell into place for 2D, but clearly hadn't set in for 3D because very few people were trained for it and there were no tools whatsoever, Koizumi doing 3D didn't happen by mistake, he entered Nintendo as a script writer, I think, but he continually tried to make the jump to other areas of development (he wasn't settling into one speciality) to the point of getting involved on a Zelda II poligonal remake on the SNES (using the Super FX chip, I think).

Game wasn't polygonal 3D per see, but it was all about animating poligons (read vertices) instead of sprites. I think "Another World" graphics must have been the goal. Still, you were animating polygons, it's one coordinate less from 3D, from them on he was on track to be hand picked for whatever project with polygons arised.

Anyway, Ocarina of Time was the second time Koizumi did something like that, as he was credited as a 3D Animator for Mario 64, interestingly enough though, he wasn't the only one as Satoru Takizawa is also featured in the same category. And if we delve deeper, we'll realize Giles Goddard also did some, for Mario's face as well as the whole "dynamic vertex" calculations, these games in the beggining were really group efforts, potentially everyone did a piece of everyones work, or worked on systems to make it a reality.

Not to say he was a 3D artist, but... Nintendo had motion capture down at this point, just think how grueling and horrible these games animations would be otherwise.

Koizumi was pretty much a 3D artist at this point, but you can't forget that Ocarina of Time had pretty extensive Motion Capture, with even actors being hired for it. Mario 64 was more homely so they probably did it themselves, but you get my rift.


Him ending up on the Super Mario 64 team doing 3D animation wasn't surprising, and it was as much as he didn't new what he was doing as it was that there weren't enough tools to make it go smoother.

Anyway, he was far from the only person contributing to the project there, OoT even had a cutscene team.

And then you have some guy that deserves to be mentioned more than he usually is; Takumi Kawagoe, he was responsible for Starfox 2 programming (if you ever play it you'll realize everything needed to develop both Mario and Zelda is there, camera, even lock-on in third person view - and it was cancelled due to this Nintendo wanted a leap, not achieve what they were aiming for on the N64... On the SNES), this means Mario 64 was this guy's second 3D game, and Zelda OoT was his third (for which he developed the cutscene changing equipment tools and stuff like that).

In lots of ways, Starfox 2 was patient 0 for Nintendo, just never released officially.
Even in Mario Galaxy you have Koizumi sneaking into the office at night and adding special gems into the game. Or the guy who secretly put a fishing minigame into OoT while no one else was paying attention.
Same guy who did the same for Link's Awakening. :p
These people weren't working because it was their job. It feels like they just really really wanted to make something that was important to them.
At this point it was certainly more than a job, they saw this as the future of videogame development, so getting a development time extension to perfect something they were in the middle of doing/perfecting meant a lot for them. There were seasoned video game developers who suddenly had a new reality going on, they were adapting as fast as they could, any pretence was good (and they were seeing painstaking results coming out of their sweat and tears).

It's like when you start doing something and want to master it, really. There was the Nintendo way of doing things helping, but above all they were very motivated in mastering it. They felt it was very important.

But that doesn't detract from your point at all.



EDIT: Backtracking a bit, I think one of the issues these days, and going back to your cooking example, is that people are too comfortable in being one trick ponies, like... These days you study to be a freaking videogame designer. That's like studying to be a director or simply "boss" for Christ's sake.

That's like being the pastry chef. Do me an omelette. Oh no sir, I don't know how to. Whaaaat?


You do 3D modelling, you don't know anything about programming and realworld limitations - you work with specs, that means you either play it safe and nobody complains about your average work EVER, or you try to push limits and people keep coming back to you because you broke something on their program. It's not a joint effort, it's bashing heads.

You do directing but you know nothing about doing the other guys work, hence a guy tells you he's been really busy animating a ball and you believe it. You get what I'm saying, I'm sure.

How do you expect a guy who directs you to... direct you, if he thinks the work you do is pretty much sprinkling fairy dust on some shit and voilá? You don't, guy's not directing you, he's blindfolded or worse yet, he hasn't learned how to see.

The reason Miyamoto is so good, or Koizumi, is not because they have vision and are intelligent - that's a big part of it, yes, but they know the basics for everything, you can't just say "no, that won't do", it's the same for Iwata, dude was a proliferate programmer, just because he doesn't program now you can't exactly fool him easily on a tech explanation you're pulling out of your own ass to save your hide.

That creates tons of wasted work or lots of bottlenecks all this talk about "oh, it's so powerful I don't have limitations as an artist" we hear sometimes is just a pile of shit because you always have limitations and always will, the fact you can do it more sloppily now just means framerate will take a hit or the game will have less stuff going on than it could have otherwise, it's that simple.



I'm a designer, looking for a job - and the other day a programmer guy that knows me was telling me "hey, if you were applying for web design you would be employed and earning way more than the jobs you're applying for as of now" so I explained to him why I didn't do it/like it and he was like "oh, you understand this shit so much better than everyone I work with and it's as you say, that creates lots of wasted work because people don't see eye to eye"

Dudes don't understand the reason for their creative "canvas" limitations. I understand them and understand that's not my strong suit (against areas I've constantly honed) because I don't know how to do the programming part (or rather, learned it before, hated it, forgot it, learned it again, 3 times) so I don't do it. You have to understand what the fuck you're doing or you'll just be average - and average is what the guys he mentioned are, they're also incompetent in my book if that state of affairs is more than passing and they'll be doing that for long.

If I apply for that kind of job I'll just re-learn programming because I'm competent at least to be able to do something on the programmer day off or debug myself everytime something goes wrong, and I'll feel miserable and caged - but I'll be competent.


Lots of incompetent "one trick ponies" out there.

... I actually know a few in the videogame industry that worked for commercial games and my reaction is the same every time, how did this guy manage to work on said industry? I know good programmers and 3D modellers, simply specifically not them.
 

Mak

Member
Yeah. A lot of games feel a bit soulless. And I think development size has a lot to do with that.

That's what I liked about Koizumi and Miyamoto with OoT. They had no clue what they were doing. Koizumi ended up doing all the character modeling and animation for Link, simply because no one else really knew how to do 3D. And the guy was like...20 years old at the time. They all just threw stuff together and it ended up being really really special.

By the time 3D came everything had fell into place for 2D, but clearly hadn't set in for 3D because very few people were trained for it and there were no tools whatsoever, Koizumi doing 3D didn't happen by mistake, he entered Nintendo as a script writer, I think, but he continually tried to make the jump to other areas of development (he wasn't settling into one speciality) to the point of getting involved on a Zelda II poligonal remake on the SNES (using the Super FX chip, I think).

Game wasn't polygonal 3D per see, but it was all about animating poligons (read vertices) instead of sprites. I think "Another World" graphics must have been the goal. Still, you were animating polygons, it's one coordinate less from 3D, from them on he was on track to be hand picked for whatever project with polygons arised.

Anyway, Ocarina of Time was the second time Koizumi did something like that, as he was credited as a 3D Animator for Mario 64

Yoshiaki Koizumi worked on Ocarina of Time when he was about 30 years old (and first played Super Mario Bros. when he was in college at age 21). He wasn't just the 3D animator on Super Mario 64, but also the the assistant Director and a protégé of Miyamoto. That's why after working as a director on Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask he went on to direct Super Mario Sunshine and later lead EAD Tokyo for Super Mario Galaxy.

He was one of the original 3 staff members that started the Zelda: Ocarina of Time project for N64, and responsible for the backstory in the manuals of Zelda: A Link to the Past (plus the art of the Goddesses) and Link's Awakening, the more serious elements of Majora's Mask and the moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiaki_Koizumi
http://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...to-me-in-a-dream-koizumi/&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/zelda-ocarina-of-time/1/0
 

zeldarocks

Neo Member
Heh... I just realized something:

Ocarina of Time took 3-4 years to come out for the N64, Majora's Mask 64 only took one year.

Ocarina of Time 3D took about 1 year, Majora's Mask 3D took 3-4 years.

They're trying to give Majora's Mask the TLC they originally gave Ocarina of Time on the N64...
 
Actually there wasn't room, but when they deleted the beta testing stuff off the ROM then there was room. So they deleted the beta testing stuff, threw Mew into the game. Then they couldn't even test the game to see if adding Mew had messed up the game. Instead of getting mad they were just like "heck with it, ship it"

Haha that's even better.
 

Tookay

Member
It's been the same shit since Link to the Past - collect a red, blue, and green item - sword - collect other shit - gannon/boss. Majora's Mask was SUCH a fresh breathe of air into the series...I agree I hope the next one mixes it up a bit
Yes collect four doodads and defeat the final boss was such a fresh breath of air.

... basically every Zelda is conventional if you deconstruct it this way. They need some sort of framing device.

SS for its flaws actually did some things that were structurally different but seemed to get shit for it.
 

TheMoon

Member
The hell...? How can you activate first person mode in WWHD?

You can't play the whole game in FP mode. Question was about being able to walk around in FP mode. WWHD allowed you to walk while aiming projectiles such as the boomerang and the bow which you couldn't do in the original. You can basically play it like a first person shooter as long as you had arrows and didn't need to interact with objects or use other items since those actions aren't available.
 

zeldarocks

Neo Member
In the most recent Famitsu interview, Anouma touched on how to streamline a portable Majora's Mask, saying that "it would be easier to play than the original version, especially since you could put it in sleep mode.”


In my eyes, that nixes the possibility of saving anywhere, as you could just use the sleep mode function to suspend your game; thus lending credence to the Owl Statues being used to perma-save.

BTW, does anybody know when the next Famitsu comes out with the full interview?
 

TheMoon

Member
In the most recent Famitsu interview, Anouma touched on how to streamline a portable Majora's Mask, saying that "it would be easier to play than the original version, especially since you could put it in sleep mode.”


In my eyes, that nixes the possibility of saving anywhere, as you could just use the sleep mode function to suspend your game; thus lending credence to the Owl Statues being used to perma-save.

BTW, does anybody know when the next Famitsu comes out with the full interview?

you're following the wrong thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=931945
 

Rich!

Member
Is this shot new? Not seen it before - looks like its from a Nintendo youtube video (the watermark at the top right), anyone know which one?

jbjDtNyofNusV5.jpg


The area being shown is the graveyard in Ikana Valley (the direction the moon is facing, tree and lantern show this).

edit: derp, it was the US nintendo direct. Didn't watch that one, being in the UK and all. And yeah, its the graveyard.
 

SirNinja

Member
Is this shot new? Not seen it before - looks like its from a Nintendo youtube video (the watermark at the top right), anyone know which one?

jbjDtNyofNusV5.jpg


The area being shown is the graveyard in Ikana Valley (the direction the moon is facing, tree and lantern show this).

edit: derp, it was the US nintendo direct. Didn't watch that one, being in the UK and all. And yeah, its the graveyard.

It's a bit odd how all three Directs showed some slightly different footage. Does Nintendo usually do this?

Of all the 'exclusive' footage, the one where Link goes back in time without losing any consumables (from the JP Direct) still has me curious. Did they just immediately warp back to Day 1 without collecting anything, or do you now get to keep your stuff? Hmm...
 

Rich!

Member
Did they just immediately warp back to Day 1 without collecting anything, or do you now get to keep your stuff? Hmm...

We quite simply don't know.

If they were just capturing quick footage for the trailer (which honestly, it is - otherwise you wouldn't have the text box noises during some cuts) then I assume the fastest way of getting that footage would be to just start it and warp back immediately.

Then again, they could have changed it so that you dont lose any consumables. But then if that is the case, why is the bank owner on the artwork for the 3DS version? He would have literally no use.
 

Golnei

Member
Never considered this before... but does this mean that Mario's dead and the Happy Mask Salesman converted him into a mask?

Has every Mario appearance since then (or even before) just been the Happy Mask Salesman wearing the Mario Mask??

</conspiracy>

Not quite - the Mario mask is formed from the endless torment of all the discarded host bodies Mario's consciousness inhabits throughout his travels. The primary Mario is still out there, using up more earthly forms as the mask's power continues to grow. The introduction of the Double Cherry in particular increased the amount of Mario-related suffering for the cursed artifact to draw from exponentially.
 

zeldarocks

Neo Member
We quite simply don't know.

If they were just capturing quick footage for the trailer (which honestly, it is - otherwise you wouldn't have the text box noises during some cuts) then I assume the fastest way of getting that footage would be to just start it and warp back immediately.

Then again, they could have changed it so that you dont lose any consumables. But then if that is the case, why is the bank owner on the artwork for the 3DS version? He would have literally no use.

The bank owner gives you the Adult Wallet and a Heart Piece.
 

SirNinja

Member
Then again, they could have changed it so that you dont lose any consumables. But then if that is the case, why is the bank owner on the artwork for the 3DS version? He would have literally no use.
The bank would still be a good way to save up Rupees even if they aren't lost every cycle. I certainly wish there was a place in Ocarina of Time where you could deposit your money for later withdrawal; I spent about 98% of that game with a completely full wallet.

The bank owner gives you the Adult Wallet and a Heart Piece.
This too.
 
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