The Link is dead theory is so true. I mean please don't bring up the fact there are people in Clocktown who are not in denial or the fact that how can Great Bay be the area for depression when the one thing you constantly hear in Snowhead is a baby Goron crying or the fact that how Ikana Canyon can't really be the area of acceptance when you have a kingdom that can't even accept its days are over.
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Majora's Mask 3DS announced!
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
If I had a nickel for every time IGN, gamespot, etc took something,I posted verbatim without giving credit, I would have a couple of nickels.
That's just games journalism.
Link was alive long enough to have children. >___>
I prefer to believe he had an "ego death" and not a literal death. There is a crap ton of death symbolism in Majora's Mask, but that doesn't mean death should be taken literally. Maybe Koizumi studied Terror Management Theory and used it for the basis of all of the characters. The theory is that we use worldviews and develop self esteem that is attached to that worldview so that we don't have to think about death.
Well they added fishing and Gyorg is a fish. I'm going to be really disappointed if we can't fish him out.
TheMoon
Member
Or it turns into Steel Diver Sub Wars. Link enters a Zora Sub and shoots Zora Egg Torpedos at Gyorg.
imagine if you can go back to the arena after getting the giants mask and use it there
put it on, use the fishing rod. put gyrorg in bottle. sell gyrorg in clock town at the trading post.
lol
I love fan theories but some are very far fetched.
Majora's Mask was a game that (I think) reflects the devs environment at the time. They were challenged to make a Zelda game in barely a year and it had to follow up the "best game of all time", and with an N64 not doing that well, pressure was huge. And that reflects in the game, it's about pressure and time restrictions.
The game is about death because it's a "end of the world" game, of course death is going to be a strong motif, but I never read it as something else.
Majora's Mask was a game that (I think) reflects the devs environment at the time. They were challenged to make a Zelda game in barely a year and it had to follow up the "best game of all time", and with an N64 not doing that well, pressure was huge. And that reflects in the game, it's about pressure and time restrictions.
The game is about death because it's a "end of the world" game, of course death is going to be a strong motif, but I never read it as something else.
lostinblue
Banned
^ Word. The Link is dead theory is just farfetched silly.
That's a good guess - because that's entirely true. Koizumi said exactly that in an interview with N64 Magazine back in 2000.
I'll try and find the issue later on.
There's an inside reoccuring joke in the game about "Let's not bring my wife into this..." because all of the people working on MM were working such long hours that their wives were mad at them.
So yes, that was an influence for sure.
lostinblue
Banned
I went to sleep yesterday and woke up with a boner.
I don't think pressure was any bigger than before with Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time.
Getting those games out of the door was complete pain for the team, Mario 64 specially. Some guys quit videogame industry and vowed to never return thanks to that one. It was the first time doing a lot of stuff in 3D and there was lots of trial and error due to it, there was no time to rest.
Ocarina of Time was similar, yet another 3D leap of faith done with lots of pressure riding on it, they started off with Mario 64 engine and assets and continued to modify it, so not even engine implementation was ready for the most part of the development process. And all this while they had to get it out the door as the N64 was pretty much riding on it, this means lots of missed deadlines and lots of pressure.
For Majora Mask that's not true anymore, it was coming out alongside the PS2 (I remember some UK review magazine for the month it launched had a Timesplitters 1 review as well), current Nintendo would have probably retargeted it for the next system but they went through with it, good thing too.
And they were actually allowed to require the use of the expansion pack, knowing that that could artificially limit the sales of the game. Had pressure been over 9000 Nintendo would worry too much about selling systems with it and pressure them to fit the game into the vanilla 4 MB, at this point it wasn't about selling systems anymore it was about keeping players engaged for a few extra months.
OoT requiring an upgrade not included on the cartridge/game pack wouldn't be feasible.
Majora Mask was actually, time constraints aside pretty much a walk in the park for what it was (extra hours were a shoe-in though, but for the first time in quite a few years development was focused from start to end, not a lot of experimented needed to get it right). And development took 18 months (the original pitch was most likely 12 months, but they got a 6 month extension), pressure was part of the production chain and they had less people working on it (than on OoT) but not any worse than before.
Speaking of the 18 month mark: so did... Persona 4. It's ideal for a direct sequel recycling engine and game systems if you ask me.
WiiredShawn
Member
Fan theories can be entertaining, but I think it's much more productive to discuss how the game generates meaning internally, through the interactions of characters and structures - for instance, how the game embodies and plays with the idea of "persona," or how it represents time relative to Ocarina of Time (cyclical vs. progressive), or how different masks metaphorically constitute alternate dimensions of adulthood, all of them culminating in the intensely symbolic moment that is "the moon."
I loved Majora's Mask the day it came out, but I think my appreciation of the game has only deepened with time and multiple visits to that world (appropriately enough). It's one of the few games I've experienced that grapples consistently with 'mature' themes (the meaning of adulthood, accepting death, true devotion, etc.) without pretension (i.e., it doesn't say "Do you see this motif, player? Do you see how smart it is and how related it is to BIG IDEA?"). It's ability to blend trademark Zelda quirkiness with emotional subtlety and coherent meaning is a remarkable accomplishment, in my eyes, especially for it's time.
In short, please come out soon, remake.
I loved Majora's Mask the day it came out, but I think my appreciation of the game has only deepened with time and multiple visits to that world (appropriately enough). It's one of the few games I've experienced that grapples consistently with 'mature' themes (the meaning of adulthood, accepting death, true devotion, etc.) without pretension (i.e., it doesn't say "Do you see this motif, player? Do you see how smart it is and how related it is to BIG IDEA?"). It's ability to blend trademark Zelda quirkiness with emotional subtlety and coherent meaning is a remarkable accomplishment, in my eyes, especially for it's time.
In short, please come out soon, remake.
KeeSomething
Banned
I talked about this on ZU, but I'm a little nervous about how Nintendo is going to handle the streamlining of sidequests. I understand Aonuma wanting to make the game more accessible to new players, but a huge part of MM's appeal is that it is designed in a way where you most likely will fail several times before you collect enough information to complete a quest the correct way. Seeing the effects of your failure connects you even more to the people you are trying to save, and it works perfectly in MM since you can travel back in time with this new knowledge to get things just right.
I can't begin to tell you how many times I failed during the Anju/Kafei sidequest before I got it right. I know that will turn of some players, but Majora's Mask never as a Zelda game for everybody, but the people who did get through it consider it to be an absolute masterpiece and a work of art.
Adding hand-holding and tailoring the game for babies so they will know exactly what to do without ever suffering the lose of failure will completely miss out on the theme of Majora's Mask. It will not be the same experience that makes it stand out so much in the first place.
The lack of hand-holding required you to spend more time with the people of the world so you can learn more about them and have a better chance to fight the odds and save them. Still, failures are likely to happen.
Players NEED to see scenes like this or MM just won't have the same impact when you finally do succeed.
That's my two cents.
I can't begin to tell you how many times I failed during the Anju/Kafei sidequest before I got it right. I know that will turn of some players, but Majora's Mask never as a Zelda game for everybody, but the people who did get through it consider it to be an absolute masterpiece and a work of art.
Adding hand-holding and tailoring the game for babies so they will know exactly what to do without ever suffering the lose of failure will completely miss out on the theme of Majora's Mask. It will not be the same experience that makes it stand out so much in the first place.
The lack of hand-holding required you to spend more time with the people of the world so you can learn more about them and have a better chance to fight the odds and save them. Still, failures are likely to happen.
Players NEED to see scenes like this or MM just won't have the same impact when you finally do succeed.
That's my two cents.
LegendofLex
Member
I fully expect it to be little more than a Sheikah Stone equivalent and more detailed notes in the Bomber's Notebook.
lostinblue
Banned
Thanks for the kind words guys
I enjoyed writing it as well, then realized it was actually good and slapped some images in. Hehe.
It's a nice theory, I'll agree it is elegantly presented and infinitively more likely than other variants of it like the FFVIII one, that no matter how well presented simply doesn't fit the theme.
I do think the fact that can be said and actually fit is one of the achievements for this game's way of storytelling and theme. Good speculation and side-theories are good providing they're entertaining.
But it's too far fetched to assume or claim (and ultimately, I don't think it's believable as original intent). What bothers me sometimes is the people to go out of their way as if it's not a theory anymore. Hence me just stomping it a few posts up.
I know, actually back in 2001, and judging from some of the first shots I've seen from Wind Waker I thought that was the direction they were going with it:
Because the rumor that cel shading with black outlines was the original intent for Majora Mask was already in. I'm not too sure they actually tried it on the N64 though, which I remember being claimed, I can't even picture how that could work as N64 graphics pipeline wasn't really manipulable (this is not exactly true, as it had a very early T&L unit, but too limited for this).
Fear Effect on the Psone simulated it by texture overlays and that would be what could be in the real of possibility for MM but for something like 3D Zelda (regulable camera) that wasn't really viable unless massively scripted.
Majora Mask artistic direction is still something that I just wish they would attempt someday, I love the new artwork they did for the game, but I'm still hoping the original art pieces pop up in high definition:
(that's the best quality asset for that scene I ever got)
It's definitely more gritty, hanged people, screaming masks and tentacles notwithstanding. Awesome.
I love MM for every little "flaw" it has. So literally every "fix" is going to piss me off. I knew this from the get-go, and I have come to terms with it. :C
lostinblue
Banned
I don't think they'll change any of that too much if at all.
They're bound to rebalance the main-quest if any part of it needs it, kinda like they did for Wind Waker HD and streamline items (think iron boots in OoT 3D) but other than that they won't really mess with structure.
Side quests are not a requirement to finish the game so they certainly fully understand that any gratuitous change is bound to be met with scepticism.
Take OoT 3D, for instance, "side quests" such as the Ice Arrows in Gerudo Training Grounds was kept the same (and I've actually found it harder due to the controls of a portable console.
What they'll change for sure and worries me is the save system. I hope they keep a classic option.
TheMoon
Member
Why are you talking about hand-holding? There are zero indicators for hand-holding. All he mentioned were hints. He went out of his way to make sure ALBW had no hand-holding and relegated the hint system to the glasses that required play coins. In interviews the message Aonuma seems to have received and understood is that it's okay to figure things out for yourself. I really don't understand why you're worrying about hand-holding now.
I loved this game but everyone I know who played it gave up when they ran out of time near the end of the first dungeon because they never learned how to slow down time or understood how much they would be able to skip when they restarted time. The game should probably lead players through slowing down time or restarting from the beginning somehow after getting the first key items or unlocked shortcuts. Otherwise I don't think the game needs any changes. Well, a couple forced uses of Bomber's notebook later in the game would also help, too many people just forgot about it.
lostinblue
Banned
Fixing the Razor Sword only lasting two days because it's a very cool sword and what's the other again?
Banjotanooki
Member
Fresh off of Nintendo's official FB:
So the announcement of MM3D got me to go back for another MM playthrough. This time I wanted to challenge myself so I did a reverse boss order run. I’ve gotta say it was really fun. The route I used will probably not be possible in 3D because it requires you to be able to bomb hover and weirdshot. Lots of sequence breaking and general wackiness. I’ve played MM so many times that this new route really through me for a loop, this is actually the first time I’ve never got all the masks in a playthrough. Skipping the elegy of emptiness and finishing the STT was probably the hardest part. I highly recommend others try this if you have access to the N64 version (I did this on VC).
Also to new players, PLEASE get all of the masks on your first playthrough. It is really worth it to see everything through to the end.
Also to new players, PLEASE get all of the masks on your first playthrough. It is really worth it to see everything through to the end.
wow, that's a line from the very end of the game.
The save system, the losing all your item when you go back in time, fixing the Elegy of Emptiness, telling the players about the songs of time , fixing the bottom of the well. and others that i cant think of.
lostinblue
Banned
I'm flabbergasted.
I'm assuming they didn't go far in Metal Gear Solid 1 too, you know actually having to check the box and manual... and think.
They literally force feed you the song to go back in time providing you go to the most obvious place - the one you've been trying to enter for 3 days and the one where you know skull kid is - in the end of the first 3 days when the final counter kicks in.
Yeh it's an odd decision adding that line.
lostinblue
Banned
I don't think the saving system is broken at all, that's just your opinion.
I bet they'll "fix" it anyway, but that's the thing I'm not really looking forward to. I don't want a save anywhere feature.
That was by design as well, and... Does it really bother you?
It makes sense, makes you use the city bank to store your money and... Makes it so that events go back to the beggining. Like... you were doing a sidequest, have the Powder Keg now, go back everything restarts, but "har har!, I have the power keg?" that's wrong.
What's wrong with it?
Do you want a "fast redial" option? I think that's likely.
Never bothered me on the N64 because the song controls were so good and visual. I know I'll hate it on the 3DS.
The game does tell you about them. Stylin' Scarecrow tells you that.
Up until this point I think you'd be killing a intelligently built game with hand holding fits.
I don't recall issues with the Well, but providing there were any, if it's structure they could fix it, wouldn't be out of character to do.
I just remembered what they're fixing though, they're doing away with loading between Clock Town areas, that's RAD! Couldn't be done better on the N64 but it was a flaw nonetheless.
I just went through the well a couple days ago. You need to bring in a blue potion and 5 magic beans, but outside of that everything else can be found inside the well itself. There are no problems to me at all. Its totally fine.
lostinblue
Banned
Not so sure!
Portion of a Ocarina of Time 3D interview with Grezzo:
Source: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/zelda-ocarina-of-time/3/1
The save system is absolutely fine, it's the way it is due to design, and does not need "fixing".
Not75Drops
Member
To me, the save system is massive part of what makes the good. Changing that would make it a different game.
lol wtf
Haha, wow. That's amazing (and deserves its own thread IMO).
Solid SOAP
Member
Nintendo are really pushing this game! I hope that it's successful, because it really deserves to be. If my favorite Zelda could make itself into the mainstream, that would definitely put a smile on my face. I'd love to see/hear people playing this on my campus before I leave for a real job.
zeldarocks
Neo Member
Could somebody link me to those awesome wide-screen wallpapers?
lostinblue
Banned
My shortlist:
Wish they didn't go and splashed watermarks on the borders of artwork that isn't theirs on some of those, but I'm lazy to redo them and rehost them just for that.
Hmm, Koizumi watched Run Lola Run and that inspired Majora's Mask.
Has anyone seen this film? I thought it'd be, you know, Groundhog day or something.
Then again, he was a film student so he probably watches everything.
Has anyone seen this film? I thought it'd be, you know, Groundhog day or something.
Then again, he was a film student so he probably watches everything.
The Strokes
Banned
After watching the trailer for God knows how many times, I've fallen in love with the moon's design.
At first I didn't like it But now that I've seen it a lot of times I like it a lot. It looks menacing, like it really will drop on Termina at any time.
Spring 2015 can't come soon enough.
At first I didn't like it But now that I've seen it a lot of times I like it a lot. It looks menacing, like it really will drop on Termina at any time.
Spring 2015 can't come soon enough.
Where do you get all this info? It now makes so much sense.
No it not, have a dumb fetch quest is not fine, all the stuff in well is stuff that you would never use.
themagicalkitsune
Member
I was thinking, maybe Aonuma implies there will be more pointers as to where / when to get some of the masks. IIRC it was a pretty difficult task to do without a guide in the original game.