Haven't seen it in at least ten years, but if I remember correctly it's just three different scenarios in three different "universes" (or something like that). The Lola in one sprint is not the same Lola as the others. So honestly I think Majora's Mask is more like Groundhog Day than Run Lola Run, lol.
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Majora's Mask 3DS announced!
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
MM would be even more grim if you HAD to die at the end and then start again as a alternate reality Link every time.
o____o It was probably their initial thought though.
MetalGuardian
Banned
Link just leaves the death for all of Termina's inhabitants every time he plays the Song of Time - what a champ
That's one of the subtler elements of the mask collection I love: the more cycles you go through collecting masks, the more multiverses you create and ultimately condemn to a fiery death. Is it worth chasing the one universe where everyone gets a happy ending at the expense of the dozens of universes and hundreds souls sacrificed in the process? Assuredly not, and that is supremely twisted. Completing this game in the fewest cycles is the only ethical way to play it.Link just leaves the death for all of Termina's inhabitants every time he plays the Song of Time - what a champ
I've destroyed so many people just for forgetting to put Anju's letter in the mailbox...
On the subject of theories and stuff like that there's this one dude, EmceeProphIt, talks about the symbolism of the game.
Also did OoT and is working on WW.
Also did OoT and is working on WW.
zeldarocks
Neo Member
Woah... Can you cite that regarding the devs that quit over Mario 64?
Yeah, I really like those videos.
There's quite a bit that he might of missed, but he says things that I didn't see so that's cool too.
I really hate the Link is dead theory; especially with having a degree in psychology. Their supporting arguments are so incredibly thin but so many people don't even question the holes. I wrote a point by point counter to that video a while back:
This is a bad theory because it uses logical fallacies to support its claims. It makes presuppositions and finds evidence that supports the conclusions they've already drawn without examining everything and missing evidence that goes against their conclusions. They use false dichotomies where they try to show that one explanation isn't likely and then assume their explanation is the only other one and must be right.
The areas of Termina do not represent individual components of the stages of grief.
Clocktown: Several NPCs in Clocktown know that the moon is falling. Several of them flee or plan to flee the town by the third day. People are dealing with it multiple ways. The Happy Mask Salesman bargains with you to retrieve what he lost and gets angry with you when you don't pull off your end of the deal in the first 3 days. The mayor is bargaining by having a town meeting to trying and figure out what to do. The head carpenter is both in denial and angry. The swordmaster actually ends up dealing with the moon by running away rather than denying that the moon is a threat. The major sidequest of Clocktown involves dealing with a couple of people who are very much aware of their problems and not denying them at all. One of them fights to overcome his fate and the other plans to run away from the moon but if you help them they accept their fates.
Woodfall: Deku King is angry. Monkey bargains for your help and accepts his fate. Deku butler is depressed. Cremia is in denial about the cow abductions. Romani bargains for Link's help and gets depressed if you don't save the cows and Cremia.
Snowhead: Darmani does bargain with Link for help, but bargaining happens in every area of the game. People are always asking Link to help them. The song of healing is essentially the song of acceptance. Darmani is also depressed and immediately after asking Link to help him accepts that it may be beyond Link's power and asks him to do something else, so there's acceptance. Most of the Gorons are starving and freezing and they're pretty much dealing with their own losses by accepting it, being depressed, or denying it. The baby Goron is depressed.
Great Bay: Lulu is depressed. Mikau bargains for Link's help and accepts his fate. The rest of the Zoras are pretty much in denial that anything is wrong. Mikau dealt with the loss of his eggs by getting angry and got killed trying to save them.
Ikana Valley: You help most people you help in the game come to acceptance, so there's no reason to single it out here. Sharp and the king of Ikana are angry and most of Ikana is in denial of their own deaths and refuse to move on. The little girl is in denial about her father.
Majora's Mask is a game full of grief because there are many things to grieve about and the game makes no attempts to veil these reasons. None of the areas embody a single aspect of grief.
Termina: The game focuses heavily on time and "term" is a perfect root to describe a world on a time limit since that's what it means: a finite length of time. The world itself is terminal meaning it has a time limit. This is not "a pretty big red flag" for Link being dead. There's nothing about it suggesting anything to do with Link.
Termina is an alternate reality... Why would Hyrule be able to see a moon that doesn't exist there? Link falls through a mysterious Wonderland-esque portal to get there. There is no evidence for Link dying and the closest they can come up with is "maybe he died falling through the magical portal." Then they have a debate over how impossible things can happen in world full of magic and act like that's proof of anything. The people are mirrors of Hyrule people because it's a parallel universe. The game really doesn't hide this.
The elegy of emptiness lets you make a statue of any form you can take. It says nothing about the forms having to be based on dead people, and just because Link's other forms are from dead people does not mean that Link himself is dead. That's a leap of logic.
The Hero's Shade is an adult. He obviously hasn't accepted anything because he regrets not being able to pass on his skills.
"You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?" adequately describes both getting turned into a deku scrub and letting the world get destroyed/dying. Both are terrible fates and the Happy Mask Salesman saves you from both fates. It's his signature line and hints more at his mysterious god-like powers. It also ties into being warped back to the first day.
The areas of Termina do not represent individual components of the stages of grief.
Clocktown: Several NPCs in Clocktown know that the moon is falling. Several of them flee or plan to flee the town by the third day. People are dealing with it multiple ways. The Happy Mask Salesman bargains with you to retrieve what he lost and gets angry with you when you don't pull off your end of the deal in the first 3 days. The mayor is bargaining by having a town meeting to trying and figure out what to do. The head carpenter is both in denial and angry. The swordmaster actually ends up dealing with the moon by running away rather than denying that the moon is a threat. The major sidequest of Clocktown involves dealing with a couple of people who are very much aware of their problems and not denying them at all. One of them fights to overcome his fate and the other plans to run away from the moon but if you help them they accept their fates.
Woodfall: Deku King is angry. Monkey bargains for your help and accepts his fate. Deku butler is depressed. Cremia is in denial about the cow abductions. Romani bargains for Link's help and gets depressed if you don't save the cows and Cremia.
Snowhead: Darmani does bargain with Link for help, but bargaining happens in every area of the game. People are always asking Link to help them. The song of healing is essentially the song of acceptance. Darmani is also depressed and immediately after asking Link to help him accepts that it may be beyond Link's power and asks him to do something else, so there's acceptance. Most of the Gorons are starving and freezing and they're pretty much dealing with their own losses by accepting it, being depressed, or denying it. The baby Goron is depressed.
Great Bay: Lulu is depressed. Mikau bargains for Link's help and accepts his fate. The rest of the Zoras are pretty much in denial that anything is wrong. Mikau dealt with the loss of his eggs by getting angry and got killed trying to save them.
Ikana Valley: You help most people you help in the game come to acceptance, so there's no reason to single it out here. Sharp and the king of Ikana are angry and most of Ikana is in denial of their own deaths and refuse to move on. The little girl is in denial about her father.
Majora's Mask is a game full of grief because there are many things to grieve about and the game makes no attempts to veil these reasons. None of the areas embody a single aspect of grief.
Termina: The game focuses heavily on time and "term" is a perfect root to describe a world on a time limit since that's what it means: a finite length of time. The world itself is terminal meaning it has a time limit. This is not "a pretty big red flag" for Link being dead. There's nothing about it suggesting anything to do with Link.
Termina is an alternate reality... Why would Hyrule be able to see a moon that doesn't exist there? Link falls through a mysterious Wonderland-esque portal to get there. There is no evidence for Link dying and the closest they can come up with is "maybe he died falling through the magical portal." Then they have a debate over how impossible things can happen in world full of magic and act like that's proof of anything. The people are mirrors of Hyrule people because it's a parallel universe. The game really doesn't hide this.
The elegy of emptiness lets you make a statue of any form you can take. It says nothing about the forms having to be based on dead people, and just because Link's other forms are from dead people does not mean that Link himself is dead. That's a leap of logic.
The Hero's Shade is an adult. He obviously hasn't accepted anything because he regrets not being able to pass on his skills.
"You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?" adequately describes both getting turned into a deku scrub and letting the world get destroyed/dying. Both are terrible fates and the Happy Mask Salesman saves you from both fates. It's his signature line and hints more at his mysterious god-like powers. It also ties into being warped back to the first day.
Labrynian Rebel
Member
In other words "just like most fan theories"
I hope it's something interesting for the New 3DS, better framerate or better tailored controls.
Yeah, there's quite a bit wrong with the theory. But the game definitely has a lot to say about grief in general.
Even though it definitely can't be canon at all it isn't all that strange of a theory saying how Link's Awakening
And that was another wacky direct sequel adventure game.
Even though it definitely can't be canon at all it isn't all that strange of a theory saying how Link's Awakening
actually could be explained as Link in a near death coma that he woke from.
Good stuff.
I'm all about thematic analysis and extrapolation, (I'll link to my unoriginal essay like I do in every Majora thread ) but it seems strange that people want to reduce a complex piece of work into a single simple thesis like LINK IS DEAD, even if the evidence is contradictory and the statement has no meaning beyond gaining some minor shock value.
Trying to fit a work into a fan theory diminishes it, I think.
I'm all about thematic analysis and extrapolation, (I'll link to my unoriginal essay like I do in every Majora thread ) but it seems strange that people want to reduce a complex piece of work into a single simple thesis like LINK IS DEAD, even if the evidence is contradictory and the statement has no meaning beyond gaining some minor shock value.
Trying to fit a work into a fan theory diminishes it, I think.
Right. Grief is a central theme of the game. The world is ending and several other tragedies are befalling the various people of Termina and they all react to it in various ways. It irks me that the fan theorists suggest that each area represents a single aspect of grief since none of them really have a single aspect that stands out more than the others. Every area pretty much runs the gamut.
Awesome stuff!
It's also really interesting to analyze the cultural aspects of the game too. Like how Mayan imagery is so important since the Mayans were so great about studying time and the cosmos. Along with the whole savage/primitive vs. the civilized feel of the game. Or the more Eastern forms of symbolism, like how the name "Grasshopper" that Romani gives to Link is a direct reference to the belief that grasshoppers can jump through time and space, and how they make leaps of faith into the unknown as if they have knowledge of the future...just like Link.
There are so many tiny things that add up in this game. You could literally read into any sentence in the game and come up with something really thought provoking to think about. I see MM as the ultimate acceptance of fears.
Majora's Mask actually took about a year to develop. The whole idea was to reuse the engine and assets of Ocarina of Time to remake a new Zelda in one year (Aonuma wanted to do a new game instead of Ura Zelda which was a remix)
They began programming in Feb 1999, and started with ideas in Jan 1999. Ocarina of Time was released in November of 1998, and the team basically split in two to work on Ura Zelda (Master Quest) and Zelda Gaiden (Majora's Mask)
Majora's Mask released first in Japan in April 2000, (development started in Feb 1999). It was delayed about 6 months for localization. The U.S. release at least launched the same day as PS2.
http://www.glitterberri.com/majoras...s-always-bringing-something-new-to-the-table/
How long did development take?
Aonuma: I looked it up. We started programming the game on February 1st last year.
Miyamoto: We’d been discussing different ideas about a month prior to that. So, it took around a year, all in all.
Aonuma: I looked it up. We started programming the game on February 1st last year.
Miyamoto: We’d been discussing different ideas about a month prior to that. So, it took around a year, all in all.
So, the staff mostly carried over from the last game?
Koizumi: That’s right. And we had some newcomers who participated as well.
Miyamoto: Actually, we started out by cutting the Ocarina of Time development team in half and adding some new people. Once we realized that our initial setup just wasn’t going to work, I was forced to recall the original team members. In the end, around 70% of the team was made up of people who had worked on Ocarina of Time. Because I was producing the entire game, I had the final say in everything. To put it simply, it was up to me to say “We’re not done here yet.” I just had to wait until everything was finished. Once the opening meetings were done with, I didn’t really contribute anything. That being said, during the latter half of development, I’d occasionally complain about this and that. Just like a tester. “Just think of me as a member of the Mario Club,” I’d say. [Laughs]
Koizumi: That’s right. And we had some newcomers who participated as well.
Miyamoto: Actually, we started out by cutting the Ocarina of Time development team in half and adding some new people. Once we realized that our initial setup just wasn’t going to work, I was forced to recall the original team members. In the end, around 70% of the team was made up of people who had worked on Ocarina of Time. Because I was producing the entire game, I had the final say in everything. To put it simply, it was up to me to say “We’re not done here yet.” I just had to wait until everything was finished. Once the opening meetings were done with, I didn’t really contribute anything. That being said, during the latter half of development, I’d occasionally complain about this and that. Just like a tester. “Just think of me as a member of the Mario Club,” I’d say. [Laughs]
More Majora's Mask interviews
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/nom_mm.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/noa_mm.html
http://www.glitterberri.com/ocarina-of-time/how-ura-zelda-became-majoras-mask/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/03/26/gdc-2004-the-history-of-zelda
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/makzelda/interviews/mmleungjournal.html (localization)
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/ds/zelda/0/0
Yeah, the cast goes through every emotional defense mechanism.
On a side note, I was trying to make a theory about each dungeon representing the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: pestilence (swamp), famine (mountain), war (canyon) and...death (ocean) ...But it feels like a stretch because all four have to do with death and there's nothing distinct about the ocean being the most "death" like....So I said screw it.
Deku Butler's Son, Darmani, Mikau, and Link are probably based off of the four humors/temperaments though.
Deku = Melancholic: Sad and depressed
Goron = Choleric: Proud and leaderlike
Zora = Sanguine: Playful and carefree
Link = Phlegmatic: Blank/Boring and thoughtful
This one seems to fit, so I'm going to say some of my theories are right.
Professor Beef
Banned
that's honestly how most fan theories should end up, from what i've read
FreedomFighter
Member
I think richisawesome is right - 60fps on n3DS.
TheMoon
Member
you do realize this is a GAME exclusive, outside of the Nintendo UK store, right?
Spieler Eins
Member
I've seen it in school. Don't really remember why though.
Anyway, bring Koizumi back into Zelda, please. Mario is now ruined anyway.
Dreamwriter
Member
More ammunition in the "Majora's Mask will be released alongside New 3DS in US and Europe" theory.
Yep. Its gonna happen. Xenoblade wont be ready, and they will need something to promote sales for the hardcore. We just wont hear about any New3DS features for MM3D until the console is announced in a western direct next year.
I'll have my PAL N3DS just after next week, waiting for MM3D to launch from that point onwards! It will be an amazing experience I bet.
Seen it in my German class, back in the day. It's a good film, the premise is kind of the same of Groundhog Day, it's just a single day, though it starts again when Lola gets killed, not after she goes to sleep. Watch it if you can.
Are those two art pieces available by themselves? I believe they're both new.Fresh off of Nintendo's official FB:
You live in a sad and bitter world, don't you?
I love how some people believe everything wrong with Zelda is Aonuma's fault and everything right is suddenly Koizumi.
Dev fanboyism is just as annoying as game or console fanboyism.
My bet is it's c-stick camera controls and not much else. Improved framerate if we're lucky, but doubtful.
spindashing
Banned
Oh, man. I'm completely stoked that this game is coming out. I've been going through a Zelda binge of sorts; I've owned most of the Zelda games but I have had the bad habit of never finishing one until this year when I finished Wind Waker HD. It inspired me to beat the other Zelda games I owned, and I did so: I went from Twilight Princess, to Skyward Sword, to Ocarina of Time and finally as of yesterday I beat Majora's Mask. I was waiting like many others here for the eventual remake, but I personally couldn't wait to play it. I had MM in my Wii's Virtual Console so I went ahead and played it.
At first, it took some time to get used to the three day system as well as the darker themes. Here I was thinking that Twilight Princess was the 2spooky4me Zelda and this game ends up beating Twilight Princess in my opinion in a matter of moments. The creepy music, the darker tones in color, and the three day system bringing a feeling of dread in general to me would have creeped me the fuck out if I was younger playing the game!
I've always heard that MM did not have as many dungeons as the regular Zelda games do and that did turn me off at first but I always felt that I had things to do in MM. I definitely cared more about the NPCs in this game over other Zelda games (namely, Twilight Princess... I can't for the life of me remember the names of a lot of them). The dungeons were challenging; I definitely had a harder time playing through the
temple in comparison to the Water temple in OoT.
I guess I understand why everyone freaked out when the
Link costume in Smash 4 was revealed. :lol I felt terrible breezing through the final boss with that form. I haven't settled on a favorite Zelda list yet but this is somewhere in the top 3 and I can't wait to play it on my 3DS.
Also, random thought... Am I the only one who preferred the
Sword to the
Sword?
At first, it took some time to get used to the three day system as well as the darker themes. Here I was thinking that Twilight Princess was the 2spooky4me Zelda and this game ends up beating Twilight Princess in my opinion in a matter of moments. The creepy music, the darker tones in color, and the three day system bringing a feeling of dread in general to me would have creeped me the fuck out if I was younger playing the game!
I've always heard that MM did not have as many dungeons as the regular Zelda games do and that did turn me off at first but I always felt that I had things to do in MM. I definitely cared more about the NPCs in this game over other Zelda games (namely, Twilight Princess... I can't for the life of me remember the names of a lot of them). The dungeons were challenging; I definitely had a harder time playing through the
Great Bay
I guess I understand why everyone freaked out when the
Fierce Deity
Also, random thought... Am I the only one who preferred the
Razor
Gilded
And the thing is, even if every place you visit in the game actually was symbolic, it could just be because, you know, it's a work of fiction and the creators wanted to include symbolism in their work to add a deeper layer of meaning. There doesn't necessarily have to be an in universe explanation about why everything represents grief.
Banjotanooki
Member
First one is definitely new. Second one was released right after the direct along with new art but it was only black and white.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
As far as the theories of MM go, I think the more the better. I think it's great to have that back and forth discussion. But as for me, I've always thought of Zelda games that have a sequel as a different setup.
For me, MM is all about what I call "the personal journey," in that it's strictly about making learning to make choices and self reflection. Ocarina of Time was the "Hero's call," the destiny that has to be fulfilled, the Purpose that must Be. But once that's fulfilled, where does the Hero go? What does he/she do with their life? There are personal questions that must be answered in that kind of scenario, but this time there aren't any road signs telling you where to go. Is Link the person that helps out? Does he help out others, and/or risk everything to save the world? Does he give back? In Ocarina he didn't really have a choice - it was fulfill his destiny or die trying. So he went and did just that. But in Termina, he could walk away. Nobody would blame him - the moon is going to fall, and he doesn't have any sort of prophecy or destiny on his side this time. Hell, nobody even knows who he is or where he's from.
But he makes the choice to help anyways, even if there might not be anything he can ultimately do. He takes the risk and decides he is that person. MM integrates that so well into the gameplay, that the ending changes depending on how many people he (and you, the player) decide to help. And thus Link and the player learn that their efforts do effect the world around them, even if it wasn't "destined." Endeavoring to make a difference in another person's life DOES create something good, and one of the great parts about it is that literally anyone can choose to do it. Link doesn't have to help that old lady get back to her shop, or boost the confidence of a depressed soldier, or help two seahorses reunite, or relieve a relieved Captain of his long-served post. But he decides to do it anyways, and I'd like to think he ends up finding something important, even if it wasn't what he was originally looking for. The Skull Kid serves as a good foil to this: he chooses to make trouble for people, and instead of finding answers he
Both make an initial choice, and find themselves on different paths.
For me, Link's Awakening and Phantom Hourglass (and Adventure of Link in a way) both do something similar. Those Links have their Destiny fulfilled, and then have to go on a personal journey afterwards. I like that the series explores the theme of what a person can do post-destiny.
For me, MM is all about what I call "the personal journey," in that it's strictly about making learning to make choices and self reflection. Ocarina of Time was the "Hero's call," the destiny that has to be fulfilled, the Purpose that must Be. But once that's fulfilled, where does the Hero go? What does he/she do with their life? There are personal questions that must be answered in that kind of scenario, but this time there aren't any road signs telling you where to go. Is Link the person that helps out? Does he help out others, and/or risk everything to save the world? Does he give back? In Ocarina he didn't really have a choice - it was fulfill his destiny or die trying. So he went and did just that. But in Termina, he could walk away. Nobody would blame him - the moon is going to fall, and he doesn't have any sort of prophecy or destiny on his side this time. Hell, nobody even knows who he is or where he's from.
But he makes the choice to help anyways, even if there might not be anything he can ultimately do. He takes the risk and decides he is that person. MM integrates that so well into the gameplay, that the ending changes depending on how many people he (and you, the player) decide to help. And thus Link and the player learn that their efforts do effect the world around them, even if it wasn't "destined." Endeavoring to make a difference in another person's life DOES create something good, and one of the great parts about it is that literally anyone can choose to do it. Link doesn't have to help that old lady get back to her shop, or boost the confidence of a depressed soldier, or help two seahorses reunite, or relieve a relieved Captain of his long-served post. But he decides to do it anyways, and I'd like to think he ends up finding something important, even if it wasn't what he was originally looking for. The Skull Kid serves as a good foil to this: he chooses to make trouble for people, and instead of finding answers he
finds himself on a ride of destruction and misery that he can't possibly hope to control, and at least partially mind-controlled or influenced for good measure.
For me, Link's Awakening and Phantom Hourglass (and Adventure of Link in a way) both do something similar. Those Links have their Destiny fulfilled, and then have to go on a personal journey afterwards. I like that the series explores the theme of what a person can do post-destiny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab60XEyA5OQ
the music in this game was so good.
the music in this game was so good.
Theories are fine, but I have no patience for ones that promote ignorance. If you're going to propose a theory it should at least be backed by actual empirical evidence and not logical fallacies. All these kinds of theories do is make the people that fall for them miss the opportunity to think about what is actually happening.
FreedomFighter
Member
Yup. In fact, I thought you were on to something with that back on page 24 in this post.
RobFox64tm
Member
What in the actual fuck?! Oh Eins, you slay me!
Ah I guess without a second stick it wouldn't be practical. Possible n3DS exclusive enhancement?
What other exclusive enhancements, if any, do you guys think Nintendo will put in for MM3D?
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I definitely prefer well-reasoned theories. But people have to start somewhere. Hopefully they can take criticism and use that to modify or change their mind and create a new theory and keep thinking about it.
D'oooh. But it's so much fun!
You can read old interviews where they studied all sorts of religions and cultures to build the soundtrack and world of Ocarina of Time. And all of that stuff spilled into Majora's Mask.
Digging into the history of Chinese Opera, Noh theatre or Sumerian legends is actually really really cool and gives you some more understanding of Termina's "foreign" feeling world.
Master Yoshi
Member
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nrb38w56ogv4cfd/XVjB80v4JO#/
Is this mask replica fairly well known? I followed this guy on Facebook as he documented the entire creation process. It was fascinating.
You start somewhere. You come up with an idea, you test it, and then if it isn't supported you drop it. You don't start believing something is true without any actual evidence until it's disproved, look only for evidence that supports your idea, and start spreading the idea as if it's well-supported.
The five areas of Termina represent the five stages of grief: false. Each of the five areas exhibit every stage of grief with none standing out as representative of the area. The game deals with death and loss as an all-encompassing theme and these 5 emotions are very common in the kinds of situations the game deals with. There is plenty of grief in the game and the idea that Link is dead comes literally out of nowhere.
Link is dead: unlikely. There's absolutely no evidence to support this idea and there is evidence that he lived to be an adult. If you want to assume that the game is about grief because of Link, the more obvious answer is that it's because Link is dealing with the loss of a friend (Navi).
Solid SOAP
Member
I don't see why people try to spin this tale that Majora's Mask is some dark, depressing tale of woe where in the end everyone loses. Is it darker than other Zeldas? Yes. Is there grief and sadness throughout? Yea. But you take it upon yourself to remedy the unfortunate situations that everyone has found themselves in by inspiring hope for a new day, hope for the return of a loved one, hope that the teacher's teachings can be passed onto a new student, etc. You use the masks you wear, the masks of the people you encounter, to spread happiness.
Majora's Mask has a lot of layers to it, a lot more than any other Zelda, but I feel like people try to dig too deep to find something that isn't there. It is a game with many meanings behind it, but they explain these meanings pretty damn well if you pay attention.
When you're in the field with the 5 children, they all explain a little bit more about the purpose of your journey when they question their own happiness. They wonder if they'd be happier people if they were more altruistic.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I agree with you.
I'm just saying that I like that the discussion happens and is still happening on a 14-year old game.
Oh God. I love the direct sequel games. They're way more open ended, personal and different.
Phantom Hourglass was pretty rough though. :\