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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix

C

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Nyx said:
It's definitely big, there's an article on the series and the case on the frontpage of a Dutch paper today.
Click to expand...

Yep, there was a two page spread on the case in a Belgian paper too, and others have published big articles about it. It's pretty huge at this point.
 
D

Dalek

Member
http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/01/06/steven-avery-brothers-murder-teresa-halbach/

EXCLUSIVE
STEVEN AVERY
MY BROTHERS MAY HAVE KILLED TERESA

Steven Avery claims his own two brothers may have killed Teresa Halbach -- especially one who he says had a history of harassing women at the exact location where Teresa was last seen.

Avery filed legal docs -- obtained by TMZ -- in which he claims brothers Earl and Charles may have done the deed for which he's serving a life sentence. He says both have a history of sexually assaulting women. Earl once pled no contest to sexually assaulting his 2 daughters.

According to the docs, which Steven filed in 2009 after his conviction, brother Charles' criminal conduct and actions are even more problematic. He was charged with sexually assaulting his wife by holding her down and trying to strangle her with a phone cord before having intercourse with her.

The docs say Charles also had a history of aggression toward women who visited the family's junkyard. One woman, who was there to retrieve her car that had been towed, complained to cops she was afraid of Charles because he was aggressively pursuing her ... sending flowers and money to her home, calling her incessantly and showing up at her doorstep.

According to docs there was another incident in which a woman who bought a car part from the junkyard was harassed by Charles, who asked her on dates and showed up at her house.

Another woman claimed Charles had repeatedly driven by her house and would tell her on the phone he had seen her in her bathing suit as he drove by.

And this is interesting ... according to the docs, all of these women were allegedly harassed by Charles within a month of the time Teresa Halbach went missing.

Steven also says his 2 brothers had a motive to frame him because they were fighting over the family business and were jealous he was on the verge of a multi-million dollar settlement for being wrongfully convicted of sexual assault.
Click to expand...
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
AniHawk said:
https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-free-steven-avery

300,000 signatures. last i checked, about a week ago, it was under 75k. god damn, this thing really blew up.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...eir-alleged-involvement-murder-teresa-halbach

100,000 signatures here too. last i saw, it was under 25k.
Click to expand...

As someone who is unconvinced Steven and especially Brendan are guilty, my 1 response to those petitions is...

NO.

If you want to make a petition for something, make a petition to demand either the Supreme Court of Wisconsin review both cases in full, or the 2 are granted new trials outside of Manitowoc\Calumet County--and preferably outside of the State of Wisconsin. Poorly handled trials can't just be "solved" by pardoning the accused. You need to correct it by having an actual trial. I think Brendan is completely innocent of involvement and Steven is probably innocent as well, but I'm also not willing to advocate pardoning someone without absolute certainty that they are innocent. Give them a new trial, and let a jury and judge with actual integrity decide.
 
A

Askherserenity

Member
I haven't been wanting to read any spoilers and went in completely blind and it's just been absolutely gripping. Not sure how else to describe it. Can't say I'm enjoying it because it's just getting me so fucking pissed.

Holy fuck did anyone else just want to punch all those county officials right in the fucking face? They even look like fucking scum bags.

I guess it's still early to say but I'm leaning towards him being innocent. Maybe that'll change by the end of the doc, don't know.

I feel so bad for Avery's family. Mom and dad seem so sweet :(

I'm on episode 3 atm.

I'm sure this doesn't get any better for them and this sucks.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Dalek said:
http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/01/06/steven-avery-brothers-murder-teresa-halbach/
Click to expand...
Hoo boy.

neurosisxeno said:
As someone who is unconvinced Steven and especially Brendan are guilty, my 1 response to those petitions is...

NO.

If you want to make a petition for something, make a petition to demand either the Supreme Court of Wisconsin review both cases in full, or the 2 are granted new trials outside of Manitowoc\Calumet County--and preferably outside of the State of Wisconsin. Poorly handled trials can't just be "solved" by pardoning the accused. You need to correct it by having an actual trial. I think Brendan is completely innocent of involvement and Steven is probably innocent as well, but I'm also not willing to advocate pardoning someone without absolute certainty that they are innocent. Give them a new trial, and let a jury and judge with actual integrity decide.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd generally agree with that. If the White House wanted to do something, it should direct the DOJ to look at some of the local and state officials, but yeah. Pardons shouldn't be given out willy nilly.
 
F

forknknife

Banned
neurosisxeno said:
As someone who is unconvinced Steven and especially Brendan are guilty, my 1 response to those petitions is...

NO.

If you want to make a petition for something, make a petition to demand either the Supreme Court of Wisconsin review both cases in full, or the 2 are granted new trials outside of ManitowocCalumet County--and preferably outside of the State of Wisconsin. Poorly handled trials can't just be "solved" by pardoning the accused. You need to correct it by having an actual trial. I think Brendan is completely innocent of involvement and Steven is probably innocent as well, but I'm also not willing to advocate pardoning someone without absolute certainty that they are innocent. Give them a new trial, and let a jury and judge with actual integrity decide.
Click to expand...


I agree with you but signed it anyway hoping it helps to reopen the case and make a new trial for both. Let's hope.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
neurosisxeno said:
As someone who is unconvinced Steven and especially Brendan are guilty, my 1 response to those petitions is...

NO.

If you want to make a petition for something, make a petition to demand either the Supreme Court of Wisconsin review both cases in full, or the 2 are granted new trials outside of Manitowoc\Calumet County--and preferably outside of the State of Wisconsin. Poorly handled trials can't just be "solved" by pardoning the accused. You need to correct it by having an actual trial. I think Brendan is completely innocent of involvement and Steven is probably innocent as well, but I'm also not willing to advocate pardoning someone without absolute certainty that they are innocent. Give them a new trial, and let a jury and judge with actual integrity decide.
Click to expand...

i agree completely. i just think it's pretty impressive how the petitions grew. change.org hit 100k 3 days ago and has been doing about 100k a day since.
 
V

Vincent Grayson

Member
neurosisxeno said:
As someone who is unconvinced Steven and especially Brendan are guilty, my 1 response to those petitions is...

NO.

If you want to make a petition for something, make a petition to demand either the Supreme Court of Wisconsin review both cases in full, or the 2 are granted new trials outside of Manitowoc\Calumet County--and preferably outside of the State of Wisconsin. Poorly handled trials can't just be "solved" by pardoning the accused. You need to correct it by having an actual trial. I think Brendan is completely innocent of involvement and Steven is probably innocent as well, but I'm also not willing to advocate pardoning someone without absolute certainty that they are innocent. Give them a new trial, and let a jury and judge with actual integrity decide.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you in principle, given that this documentary is out and in the public space now, I'm not sure how you'd reasonably hold a new trial.
 
N

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Vincent Grayson said:
While I agree with you in principle, given that this documentary is out and in the public space now, I'm not sure how you'd reasonably hold a new trial.
Click to expand...

This.

While agree that a full pardon is not the way this should be handled but it is almost impossible now to hold a trial with an unbiased jury for either side.
 
O

obijkenobi

Member
Vincent Grayson said:
While I agree with you in principle, given that this documentary is out and in the public space now, I'm not sure how you'd reasonably hold a new trial.
Click to expand...

I think depending on where you have the trial, you could get 12 people who haven't watched the documentary yet. Obviously, I think you'd have to have it outside of Wisconsin though
 
V

Vincent Grayson

Member
obijkenobi said:
I think depending on where you have the trial, you could get 12 people who haven't watched the documentary yet. Obviously, I think you'd have to have it outside of Wisconsin though
Click to expand...

Having never gone through the jury selection process, I can't help wondering if they couldn't just immediately research stuff about the case once they were selected.
 
K

Kaiterra

Banned
Avery's doing the smart thing with that even if he knows for a fact his brother didn't do it, because it's proof that the investigators completely ignored equally viable suspects.
 
Y

yyzjohn

Banned
Damn this is really picking up steam in the media. Any other wrongfully convicted person in jail is probably hoping for their own netflix doc.
 
E

E92 M3

Member
Man, I was infuriated with
the jury:

- Why would a man kill someone and put the bones right outside the house?
- Why convict a child with no corroborating evidence and proof that his first lawyer worked with the prosecution?
- Why would there be bloodstains indicative of hair in the trunk of the car? Showing she was moved.
- Why didn't Brendan get a retrial when it was proven that his attorney broke his constitutional right?

It was just painful to watch.
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer",
 
Y

yyzjohn

Banned
Socreges said:
Here's that Fox News bit with Kratz and Strang

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/01/...idence-wasnt-shown-netflix-documentary-series

Kratz deals out more fluff and gets his moment to sanitize his name, as FOX no doubt promised in exchange for the appearance.

Strang responded to the "new evidence" well, though I'd like to hear more...

MaM 2 pls
Click to expand...


Just watched. Disappointed that Strang tried to downplay the handcuffs/shackles. She asked if he bought them 3 weeks prior and he gives the typical lawyer answer "I don't recall that" and she points out that it was introduced as evidence in the Dassey trial. I get that it isn't evidence in the Avery trial but looks suspicious, he shouldn't have just given a "I don't recall that"
 
S

SlickShoes

Member
D4Danger said:
were these the two guys who had an alibi for each other? they went hunting or something and passed each other and knew the exact time. It seemed a little too neat.
Click to expand...

Nah that was Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych.

These mentioned brothers were Avery, Stevens lawyers had them as potential suspects too but were never allowed to introduce this in court due to the weird "you can't accuse anyone else" agreement thing.
 
M

MeshuggahMan

Member
DietRob said:
oh wow. very cool to find out the composer that did TLOU did the opening for this. I had no idea.

The opening reminded me so much of True Detective season 1 and that has stuck with me so I imagine you will be right about this theme.
Click to expand...

I got a few episodes in and kept thinking "I swear I've heard music like this before..." especially the slower acoustic guitar parts. It was bugging the shit out of me. During episode 3 I screamed THE LAST OF US!! My sister was obviously very confused by that outburst.
 
E

E92 M3

Member
Reading through this thread demonstrates how some people don't understand the job of the jury members. It doesn't matter if Steve did it or not, the evidence was inconsistent and the prosecution's argument had a ton of holes in it.

Reasonable Doubt.

That's the jury's job, to determine if there is reasonable doubt.
 
S

Solo

Member
Girlfriend and I were glued to the TV throughout. Riveting stuff. Best feature I watched in 2015.

I haven't read the thread yet, but our reaction was pure fury at how such blatant corruption was not only accepted, but rewarded, and how beyond crazy it was that both were convicted based on the evidence provided.
 
Y

yyzjohn

Banned
E92 M3 said:
Reading through this thread demonstrates how some people don't understand the job of the jury members. It doesn't matter if Steve did it or not, the evidence was inconsistent and the prosecution's argument had a ton of holes in it.

Reasonable Doubt.

That's the jury's job, to determine if there is reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...

Yeah I get it. I have no idea if Avery did it or not. The very fact that the DA before the trial started said that Manitowoc police wouldn't be involved in the investigation so as not to have a conflict of interest, and then it's Manitowoc police who find all the key pieces of evidence, really raises doubt. Not only were their cops the ones who found the evidence, they only find it on subsequent searches AFTER the place has already been searched and evidence like the key and the bullet were never discovered. Either the Calumet investigators are completely incompetent and can't search effectively for clues, or something fishy was going on. That alone should raise doubt.


Just remembered Lenk's testimony about when he arrived at the scene of the RAV4..he initially said it was like 7:30 at night, which would have meant he would have had to sign into the log showing he arrived at that time, but conveniently his story changed that he arrived around 2pm, before any logging at the site was happening. Who the fuck can not remember the difference between 2pm and 7pm? It's the difference between day and night at that time of the year. Guy was being dishonest for sure.
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Watched all of it now, and it's just an unbelievable mess. What a crime against these two people, just taking their lives away. Now, do I know for sure Steven didn't do it? No, but there was so much that didn't add up in that trial that it's beyond fucked up that he was convicted. Isn't "beyond reasonable doubt" a thing? And Brendan? What the fuck. There's ZERO evidence, just a "confession" coerced out of him by manipulative people much more intelligent than him. Unbelievable. Also, fuck these stupid jurors. How about letting people trained in law and junk decide these things instead? Or at least require a minimum IQ or something. What an unbelievably broken system.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
I'm six episodes into this right now and, regardless of whether or not Avery is actually innocent, it seems like this documentary is heavily biased in his favor though. Still a really good watch, however.
 
S

Solo

Member
What was the thing about Colborne and calling in Halbach's license plate from Episode 5? I feel like I missed that somehow.
 
A

Applesauce

Boom! Bitch-slapped!
Solo said:
What was the thing about Colborne and calling in Halbach's license plate from Episode 5? I feel like I missed that somehow.
Click to expand...

He called them into dispatch a couple of days before the car was officially found. Then when the defense was asking him about it he said he wasn't or didn't remember actually looking at the plates when he did, which is a massive load of shit. Then Kratz being the smug POS he is calls the defense out for questioning his integrity.

That whole episode really pissed me off.
 
K

komplanen

Member
Can someone explain why the documentary film makers waited almost 10 years to release a documentary with by far most (all?) footage from 2006?
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Solo said:
What was the thing about Colborne and calling in Halbach's license plate from Episode 5? I feel like I missed that somehow.
Click to expand...
One theory that's going around said that he spotted Halbach's SUV sitting in Avery's junkyard and he ran a license check.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
komplanen said:
Can someone explain why the documentary film makers waited almost 10 years to release a documentary with by far most (all?) footage from 2006?
Click to expand...

Likely didn't have access to all the footage
It's basically a 2 person documentary that they weren't working full time on
Negotiating with networks
This is a long ass documentary
Etc
Etc
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Now a new case heavily criticized for being unfair and allegations of entrapment by the state officials is getting a rare, second hearing by the judge. The Fort Dix 5 has 3 Albanian brothers accused of planning to plot an attack on Fort Dix base and sentenced to life. But when questioned, they didn't know any such plot even existed. Cherry on top, their defense lawyer didn't have their best interests in mind.
The issue of law enforcement entrapment of suspects on terrorism charges is back in the spotlight as one of the most widely known recent cases — concerning the Fort Dix 5 — returns to a courtroom on Wednesday.

Three Muslim brothers are appealing their convictions at a time when terrorism arrests of Muslims and the often controversial use by police and the FBI of confidential informants are once again in the headlines.

After a trial that lasted 12 weeks, on Dec. 22, 2008, Dritan, Shain and Eljvir Duka, Albanian immigrant brothers, were convicted and later sentenced to life in prison for what their supporters said in press release was their “questionable role in a government-manufactured ‘conspiracy’” to kill U.S. military members on a base in New Jersey — a “plot they literally had never heard of.”
Click to expand...
Is this Making a Murderer effect? I hope so. After watching the documentary I really have no faith left in our criminal justice system. So much is left to luck and there is absolutely no balance between a citizen and the state. Especially when the state prosecutor in this case is the corrupt slimebag Chris Christie.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/6/fort-dix-5-back-in-court.html
 
G

Glorious Ownage

Member
Orthogonal said:
It sounds great on paper to be judged by a jury of your peers, until you realize the average joe is not obligated to be impartial and is a layman trying to interpret a complicated legal proceeding.

I have been involved in a few jury selections and seen the mental caliber of the average joe being selected. I wouldnt trust them to judge a dog show much less a criminal trial.
Click to expand...

Well said. This is what truly frightens me
 
M

Mad Season

Banned
STEVEN AVERY "MY BROTHERS MAY HAVE KILLED TERESA HALBACH"

According to the docs, which Steven filed in 2009 after his conviction, brother Charles' criminal conduct and actions are even more problematic. He was charged with sexually assaulting his wife by holding her down and trying to strangle her with a phone cord before having intercourse with her.

The docs say Charles also had a history of aggression toward women who visited the family's junkyard. One woman, who was there to retrieve her car that had been towed, complained to cops she was afraid of Charles because he was aggressively pursuing her ... sending flowers and money to her home, calling her incessantly and showing up at her doorstep.
According to docs there was another incident in which a woman who bought a car part from the junkyard was harassed by Charles, who asked her on dates and showed up at her house.
Another woman claimed Charles had repeatedly driven by her house and would tell her on the phone he had seen her in her bathing suit as he drove by.
And this is interesting ... according to the docs, all of these women were allegedly harassed by Charles within a month of the time Teresa Halbach went missing.
Steven also says his 2 brothers had a motive to frame him because they were fighting over the family business and were jealous he was on the verge of a multi-million dollar settlement for being wrongfully convicted of sexual assault.
Click to expand...

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/06/steven-avery-brothers-murder-teresa-halbach/
 
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