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[NIGHT-]

For those who have read the full transcript, what was the prosecution's explanation for the lack of blood? I assume the defense raised the issue on cross.

Something about finding bleach on Brendan's pants

 

[Giant Panda]

Finally finished it.

Im sorry, i really dont believe steven or his nephew are innocent.

I think there is way more to the story.

Now, if i was a jury member, and had to pick a side. Thats a differnt story. I didnt like any of the cops or the trials.

Haines, watch the Central Park 5 documentary on Netflix for a proven example of people knowingly giving a false confession due to police pressure. That should help change your mind.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Something I have always wondered, cam bleach actually get rid of blood? I seem to remember a show I watched once saying that although it looks like it's gets rid of all evidence, it doesn't actually clear all the dna away.

If that's the case then that makes the whole Brendon situation worse.

 

[pooptest]

Something I have always wondered, cam bleach actually get rid of blood? I seem to remember a show I watched once saying that although it looks like it's gets rid of all evidence, it doesn't actually clear all the dna away.

If that's the case then that makes the whole Brendon situation worse.

I'm not sure about clothing, but they can use their fancy light on surfaces that have been bleached and can still tell if blood was present. No blood was found anywhere in the house, nor the garage. Unless you count the mysterious bullet that appeared with blood (later tainted) on it.

Something about finding bleach on Brendan's pants

I was aware that it was only a couple spots, which could be from anything.

 

[fenners]

Nah. Just because police plant evidence doesn't necessarily mean that the victim of the bad evidence is not guilty of the crime they're pinning on him.

Right. It doesn't change their guilt. But it means the case is tainted leading to mistrials. Police can't just plant evidence because they think you're guilty! Come on.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I'm not sure about clothing, but they can use their fancy light on surfaces that have been bleached and can still tell if blood was present. No blood was found anywhere in the house, nor the garage. Unless you count the mysterious bullet that appeared with blood (later tainted) on it.




I was aware that it was only a couple spots, which could be from anything.

That's what I thought, which means Stephen must have a superpower for him to have cleaned up a crime scene as well as it apparently was, especially considering he just left the car to be found outside while doing the world's best clean up job elsewhere.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I know were not dealing with the smartest family in the world when it comes to the Avery's but how can you discount:

- The crusher not being used and the car barely hidden.
- Steven having the amazing ability to clean every spec of DNA from that trailer while at the same time keeping it a mess.
- Leaving the bill of sale and receipts from Auto Trader on his desk in plain sight.
- Not contradicted in any way with the story he told about seeing Teressa where she was, when she left and so on.

Thats all without the insanity of the keys, the bullet fragment and everything else.

According to that one Juror 7 of the 12 thought he was innocent and because others were more stubborn it got to the point where they just wanted to move on.

THAT IS SUCH BULLSHIT. If you feel like someone is innocent or at the very least that the state doesn't have enough evidence to convict and your willing to put a man in jail for life because your uncomfortable just angers me to no end.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

That's what I thought, which means Stephen must have a superpower for him to have cleaned up a crime scene as well as it apparently was, especially considering he just left the car to be found outside while doing the world's best clean up job elsewhere.

he also left the Rav4 with a bunch of debris and sticks on it among dozens of cars that had none of that shit on it, meaning he tried to conceal the car in a means that actually made it stick out like a sore thumb.

he's either a criminal mastermind who is burdened with flashes of stupidity or whoever put the car there wanted it to be found ASAP to keep the investigation moving.

The whole thing is such an obvious setup that it's absurd than any jury with two braincells to rub together would find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Apathy]

That's what I thought, which means Stephen must have a superpower for him to have cleaned up a crime scene as well as it apparently was, especially considering he just left the car to be found outside while doing the world's best clean up job elsewhere.

That's the part that stuck with me the most. Stephen must be the greatest Dexter like murderer ever to pre emtively cover every surface of his house and garage with some sort of protective surface to not leave a trace of DNA or must be the world's greatest chemist to come up with new ways to make DNA undetectable after being cleaned up. The absurdity of zero DNA evidence, even on the car keys from anyone is proof he didn't do shit. You're trying to tell people he was brilliant enough to do everything like I said and wear gloves when he handled the keys but was stupid enough to leave them on the floor or just hide them behind the night stand and not get rid of them? Come on.

 

[Eidan]

I know were not dealing with the smartest family in the world when it comes to the Avery's but how can you discount:

- The crusher not being used and the car barely hidden.
- Steven having the amazing ability to clean every spec of DNA from that trailer while at the same time keeping it a mess.
- Leaving the bill of sale and receipts from Auto Trader on his desk in plain sight.
- Not contradicted in any way with the story he told about seeing Teressa where she was, when she left and so on.

Thats all without the insanity of the keys, the bullet fragment and everything else.

According to that one Juror 7 of the 12 thought he was innocent and because others were more stubborn it got to the point where they just wanted to move on.

THAT IS SUCH BULLSHIT. If you feel like someone is innocent or at the very least that the state doesn't have enough evidence to convict and your willing to put a man in jail for life because your uncomfortable just angers me to no end.

Life ain't like 12 Angry Men. Most people will probably just say whatever will allow them to go home faster.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

That's the part that stuck with me the most. Stephen must be the greatest Dexter like murderer ever to pre emtively cover every surface of his house and garage with some sort of protective surface to not leave a trace of DNA or must be the world's greatest chemist to come up with new ways to make DNA undetectable after being cleaned up. The absurdity of zero DNA evidence, even on the car keys from anyone is proof he didn't do shit. You're trying to tell people he was brilliant enough to do everything like I said and wear gloves when he handled the keys but was stupid enough to leave them on the floor or just hide them behind the night stand and not get rid of them? Come on.

Exactly!

Just so many reasons that not o ly does the case not make sense, but the fact they both were found guilty is disgusting.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

That's the part that stuck with me the most. Stephen must be the greatest Dexter like murderer ever to pre emtively cover every surface of his house and garage with some sort of protective surface to not leave a trace of DNA or must be the world's greatest chemist to come up with new ways to make DNA undetectable after being cleaned up. The absurdity of zero DNA evidence, even on the car keys from anyone is proof he didn't do shit. You're trying to tell people he was brilliant enough to do everything like I said and wear gloves when he handled the keys but was stupid enough to leave them on the floor or just hide them behind the night stand and not get rid of them? Come on.

he also wore gloves EXCEPT for when dealing with the interior of the Rav4, where he wore the gloves but didn't care that he was somehow spilling his own blood everywhere while not leaving fingerprints.

cmon now

 

[Apathy]

he also wore gloves EXCEPT for when dealing with the interior of the Rav4, where he wore the gloves but didn't care that he was somehow spilling his own blood everywhere while not leaving fingerprints.

cmon now

Well it wasn't even spilling his blood everywhere, it was two spots in the car, not even little blood droplets anywhere else. If you're bleeding so much you leave a big stain on two places, you should be bleeding enough to leave droplets all over as you move around.

He's either super obsessed with not leaving DNA or doesn't give a shit where he leaves his DNA, the prosecution has to make up it's mind.

 

[Kill3r7]

Something about finding bleach on Brendan's pants

Really? It looks like I am going to have to make time to read the transcript because that makes absolutely no sense. I assume the defense on cross enumerated a list of items that blood was NOT found on. Bleach on Brendan's pants is not going to explain that away.

 

[poppabk]

That cop called in her fucking Rav before the search team "discovered" it. They had the car. He is caught in this lie on the stand!

I explained earlier in the thread that there are other explanations for this. She was already missing and so the number plate and vehicle type was already known to the police. He could have been calling to confirm that he had the right details, or to figure out some randomly scrawled note he had made.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Life ain't like 12 Angry Men. Most people will probably just say whatever will allow them to go home faster.

Yeah...unfortunately, he was fucked either way.

Mistral - ok a new trial...he already ran out of money
Continue with new juror - I'm sure he and his lawyers felt they already had a good case built and introducing a new juror who hadn't seen everything might not help.
Continue with one less juror - unfortunately, the best option.

It sucks reading about how the majority thought not guilty and then changed their minds due to pressure and the thought that he would get a better trial in appeal.

All the people screaming "bubububut they didn't show ALL the evidence" seem to forget the jurors did see all the evidence and the majority agreed not guilty.

 

[zma1013]

I explained earlier in the thread that there are other explanations for this. She was already missing and so the number plate and vehicle type was already known to the police. He could have been calling to confirm that he had the right details, or to figure out some randomly scrawled note he had made.

They asked him about it on the stand though and he said that he thought the person on the phone said it but she didn't.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I explained earlier in the thread that there are other explanations for this. She was already missing and so the number plate and vehicle type was already known to the police. He could have been calling to confirm that he had the right details, or to figure out some randomly scrawled note he had made.

But his face.
That look on his face was panic. I don't know how you explain that.

 

[tycoonheart]

I explained earlier in the thread that there are other explanations for this. She was already missing and so the number plate and vehicle type was already known to the police. He could have been calling to confirm that he had the right details, or to figure out some randomly scrawled note he had made.

So why was it so hard for him to say just this rather than "I don't know" when he was on the stand?

 

[Applesauce]

They asked him about it on the stand though and he said that he thought the person on the phone said it but she didn't.

His whole testimony was cringe worthy. Just pisses me off thinking about it. And then Kratz calls out Strang for questioning his integrity... vile pieces of shit.

 

[spyshagg]

The judge said to Avery something like this:

"your crimes have increased in severity as time goes on "..." as such you are a danger to the community ".." I sentence you to life in prison."


from "killing a cat" to "murder a person" = increased in severity? He is refering to the rape case as if he was guilty of that.

Does he not know Avery was proved innocent by dna on the rape charge?

 

[Always-honest]

So why was it so hard for him to say just this rather than "I don't know" when he was on the stand?

Yeah he was acting like he was invisible or something.
Not saying shit

 

[Kaiterra]

The judge said to Avery something like this:

"your crimes have increased in severity as time goes on "..." as such you are a danger to the community ".." I sentence you to life in prison."


from "killing a cat" to "murder a person" = increased in severity? He is refering to the rape case as if he was guilty of that.

Does he not know Avery was proved innocent by dna on the rape charge?

Yeah but that DNA evidence was not as good as Deputy McBumblefuck's sketch.

Also:

God damn it Facebook. How about just a high school law class understanding of the term "Reasonable Doubt"

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I'm sure this was answered at some point, and its something I wondered when I watched the series, but why did the investigation on Colburn and Co just end after the Teresa investigation started?

 

[Kaiterra]

I'm sure this was answered at some point, and its something I wondered when I watched the series, but why did the investigation on Colburn and Co just end after the Teresa investigation started?

Steven had to take a settlement to have enough money to defend himself against the murder charges. It wasn't a criminal investigation.

 

[Kill3r7]

Yeah...unfortunately, he was fucked either way.

Mistral - ok a new trial...he already ran out of money
Continue with new juror - I'm sure he and his lawyers felt they already had a good case built and introducing a new juror who hadn't seen everything might not help.
Continue with one less juror - unfortunately, the best option.

It sucks reading about how the majority thought not guilty and then changed their minds due to pressure and the thought that he would get a better trial in appeal.

All the people screaming "bubububut they didn't show ALL the evidence" seem to forget the jurors did see all the evidence and the majority agreed not guilty.

Even if one juror had a doubt the result would have been a hung jury. The truth of the matter is that jury deliberation is a unique, complex and often misunderstood process. Mock juries and studies show that the foreman has the power to sway the jury to his side.

 

[Plasticine]

NBC’s ‘Dateline’ to Explore Steven Avery’s ‘Making a Murderer’ Case

People just can’t get enough of Steven Avery these days.

On the heels of the highly popular Netflix documentary series “Making a Murderer,” tonight’s “Dateline” special will offer new look at the Avery case. Executive producer Liz Cole told TheWrap that people are so fascinated with the Avery case “for the same reason why they tune into ‘Dateline.'”

“These stories deal with fundamental issues of right and wrong, good and bad. It’s ultimately about the search for justice,” Cole said. “People also like to play armchair detective.”

Also Read: 'Making a Murderer' DA Ken Kratz Is Writing a Tell-All Book 'Proving Steven Avery's Guilt'

“The State of Wisconsin vs. Steven A. Avery” airs tonight at 10 p.m. ET on NBC. The special includes a rare 2005 interview with Penny Beerntsen, the victim of the sexual assault case for which Avery was wrongfully convicted.

Cole insisted she didn’t just binge-watch the Netflix series and decide to slap together a special. “Dateline” has spent two hours covering the Avery trial in the past, with episodes airing in 2006 and 2007.

“The last time we did one, he [Avery] had just been convicted,” Cole said. “It got back on our radar in a big way when the documentary got so much attention.”

“Dateline” will also feature new interviews with key players in the trials of Avery and his nephew, Brendan Dassey, for the murder of photographer Teresa Halbach. Cole also says there is “quite a bit” that people can learn, even if they’ve already spent 10 hours watching the Netflix series.

Andrea Canning has an in-depth interview with Ken Kratz, who responded to questions raised by the documentary.

I'm sure Kratz will spew the same nonsense he's been repeating since the documentary came out. I hope they challenge him, but for some reason I doubt it.

 

[Cat Party]

The judge said to Avery something like this:

"your crimes have increased in severity as time goes on "..." as such you are a danger to the community ".." I sentence you to life in prison."


from "killing a cat" to "murder a person" = increased in severity? He is refering to the rape case as if he was guilty of that.

Does he not know Avery was proved innocent by dna on the rape charge?

The documentary hides it, but he was convicted of the other assault on his cousin discussed in the first episode.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Don't forget he also managed to clean the trailer impeccably whilst also disposing of the body with no one seeing him and also having chats with his GF at the time on the phone in prison.

Guy must be some sort of shapeshiftimg teleporting mutant.

 

[Giant Panda]

The documentary hides it, but he was convicted of the other assault on his cousin discussed in the first episode.

I think the 1st episode also mentioned some thefts.

 

[Kill3r7]

I think the 1st episode also mentioned some thefts.

I think it is safer to operate under the assumption that the document is inherently biased but ultimately the legal issues raised in it are no less valid because of the bias. Steven Avery had a criminal record prior to him getting charged with the rape.

 

[Kaiterra]

The documentary hides it, but he was convicted of the other assault on his cousin discussed in the first episode.

I don't think it was hidden, I came out of the documentary knowing this without having to look it up if I'm remembering right. I think it's just a lot to take in when you're bingeing... binging...? I don't know how to spell it. Anyway when you go through such a pile of content what's going to stick with you are the most shocking things and what you most recently saw.

 

[Jerm411]

The extremely ridiculous pre trial press conference where Kratz presented this horror story that he knew would convict Avery before the trial even began is something I still can't shake....

 

[Jmanunknown]

Oh wow. And they had that at the time?

Yes they had that the whole time Ken Kratz and the judge did not care in their minds they had the right guys the whole time. Cases like the Steven Avery trial and Brendan Dassey trial can make career's because of how high profile they were. Kratz was pretty much set for life until in 2009 it turns out he was as crooked as a lot of people thought he was when

In October 2009, Kratz was prosecuting a domestic violence case against the boyfriend of a 26-year-old domestic violence victim. She filed a police report in Kaukauna, Wisconsin, alleging that Kratz had sent her 30 sexually coercive text messages over the span of three days. She said that she felt that he was trying to coerce her into a sexual relationship at the risk of dismissing the case against her boyfriend. The report was referred to the state's Division of Criminal Investigation. During the DCI investigation, two more women came forward accusing Kratz of harassing and intimidating them.At the time, Kratz was serving as chairman of the Wisconsin Crime Victims' Rights Board.

I do not know how anyone can believe anything that comes out of Ken Kratz mouth after what he did and especially because he still refers to the incidents as a sexting scandal .

The documentary hides it, but he was convicted of the other assault on his cousin discussed in the first episode.

The documentary never hid this in fact it was part of the reason the manitowoc police department had a grudge against him because his cousin's boyfriend worked for the police department.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Soo, up to episode 9 and...how did they convict him without any evidence from the house and garage other than the tainted bullet fragment? It seems beyond the pale that he could clean up the scene that thoroughly.

The documentary never hid this in fact it was part of the reason the manitowic police department had a grudge against him because his cousin's boyfriend worked for the police department.

It mentioned it, but I had to go to Wikipedia to find out he got six years for running his cousin off the road, served concurrently with the rape sentence. You have to wonder, was the gun he pulled on her really empty? It changes his character if you think he pointed a loaded gun at her.

Also, what happened to this dude in prison? Couldn't that be something that could "make a murderer"? He spends almost two decades living with criminals, and this impact on his personality isn't explored at all.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

The judge said to Avery something like this:

"your crimes have increased in severity as time goes on "..." as such you are a danger to the community ".." I sentence you to life in prison."


from "killing a cat" to "murder a person" = increased in severity? He is refering to the rape case as if he was guilty of that.

Does he not know Avery was proved innocent by dna on the rape charge?

The judge was insanely biased and likely referenced the previous rape/murder Avery had spent 18 unjustified years in prison for.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Also, what happened to this dude in prison? Couldn't that be something that could "make a murderer"? He spends almost two decades living with criminals, and this impact on his personality isn't explored at all.

Its not like he had not been in prison before the false rape conviction so him living with criminals is nothing new. Now Brendan Dassey is a different case altogether he had no criminal record and the time he's spending in jail might change him.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Its not like he had not been in prison before the false rape conviction so him living with criminals is nothing new. Now Brendan Dassey is a different case altogether he had no criminal record and the time he's spending in jail might change him.

He hadn't done prolonged time before the rape conviction. That's a complete change of your life, especially when you think you'll probably never get out.

Watching episode 10, for some reason I have to lol at Ken Kratz bragging about his $350,000 house. Wisconsin.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I do not know how anyone can believe anything that comes out of Ken Kratz mouth after what he did and especially because he still refers to the incidents as a sexting scandal .

“I have the $350,000 house. I have the 6-figure career. You may be the tall, young, hot nymph, but I am the prize!”

I can't stop laughing/cringing at that.

Yeah baby, I got that 350k house! I'm fucking balling up in here! Of all the things to brag about.

"I have a Toyota! Check out this Sieko watch! I got that Hugo Boss suit!"

 

[Shenmue]

Can i ask since you belive hes guilty.

Do you think he also commited the first crime or do you think being in jail made him crazy?

If he did do the first crime, he wouldnt even really think hey i got away with it i can again, because he was in jail for a long time,

Now if he didnt do it, than why on earth is he a killer now?

Lets say hes guilty. Only thing i can come up with is he was mistakenly assumed not guilty in first case, and got out and couldnt control himself. His nephew was messed up and in his sick world he was helping him get some or whatever it is sick rapists think.

If hes not guilty, than i guess theres a huge conspiracy where cops went dirty bc they looked dirty from first case and just went all the way to protect themselves.

I also still dont believe brandon just admitted to something he didnt do. That was the moment the case went from hmmmm to me to oh ok these guys are just not right in the head. Like branden said, he figured he was fucked the moment he knew what was going on and so he just didnt know how to handle the situation and got himself into jail, bc hell maybe steven would have killed him too

You were like barely watching this as you played video games huh? I know you didn't really watch this intently because you would know there is ZERO question as to whether or not he did the rape and assault he was wrongfully imprisoned for. He is 1000% innocent of that crime.

He hadn't done prolonged time before the rape conviction. That's a complete change of your life, especially when you think you'll probably never get out.

Watching episode 10, for some reason I have to lol at Ken Kratz bragging about his $350,000 house. Wisconsin.

This made me lol and then kind of cry because $350k can't even really buy you a house in SoCal.

 

[Princess Carl]

“I have the $350,000 house. I have the 6-figure career. You may be the tall, young, hot nymph, but I am the prize!”

I can't stop laughing/cringing at that.

Yeah baby, I got that 350k house! I'm fucking balling up in here! Of all the things to brag about.

"I have a Toyota! Check out this Sieko watch! I got that Hugo Boss suit!"

Power is relative.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

i imagine 350k goes a long way in the middle of nothing

 

[Shenmue]

That's the part that stuck with me the most. Stephen must be the greatest Dexter like murderer ever to pre emtively cover every surface of his house and garage with some sort of protective surface to not leave a trace of DNA or must be the world's greatest chemist to come up with new ways to make DNA undetectable after being cleaned up. The absurdity of zero DNA evidence, even on the car keys from anyone is proof he didn't do shit. You're trying to tell people he was brilliant enough to do everything like I said and wear gloves when he handled the keys but was stupid enough to leave them on the floor or just hide them behind the night stand and not get rid of them? Come on.

Yeah which is ridiculous. Even if you assume that he killed her, this would be his first murder unless there have been lots of other unsolved murders in manitowoc that we don't know about. I'm pretty sure nobody could be that clean for a first murder especially given the ridiculous theory about her being in so many damn places before she was disposed of.

 

[Dalek]

You were like barely watching this as you played video games huh? I know you didn't really watch this intently because you would know there is ZERO question as to whether or not he did the rape and assault he was wrongfully imprisoned for. He is 1000% innocent of that crime.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1176962

 

[Shenmue]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1176962

Lol that is very fitting.

 

[Plasticine]

I watched the Dateline episode last night. They only had 40 minutes or so to go through a lot of material, so they couldn't go super in depth about things. They showed part of an old interview Dateline did with Penny Beerntsen.

The interview had something I don't remember being mentioned in the documentary. Penny said someone in the Manitowoc Police called her about another suspect. After receiving the call, she contacted the Sheriff Department and they told her not to worry about it. They had jurisdiction and the Police only wanted to confuse her. They advised her to never speak to them again. Really disgusting.

Dateline also spent a ton of time discrediting the blood vial evidence. It must have been a good five minutes or so. They had an expert explain away everything about the vial, except for the broken seal. I guess they couldn't find someone to give a reasonable explanation for that.

Unfortunately they didn't go that in depth debunking any of the prosecution's evidence. They didn't mention Lenk or how he happened to be there for the discovery of the key and bullet. They relied on the defenses claims alone, without providing any of the circumstances that added meat to their claims.

Dateline also included part of an interview with Kathleen Zellner from earlier in the day. She was on her way to see Steven and stated they had uncovered new evidence. This is without testing the blood, or any of the physical evidence used to convict Steven. So the new evidence is something else. She also said she bought a RAV4 similar to Teresa Halbach's and her team performed tests on it. She seemed extremely confident and determined. I hope she's not just blowing smoke. I hope they have something that will get a new trial for Steven.

 

[RustyNails]

Yeah that dateline episode was disappointing as fuck. Basically a retread of the entire story with a minute or two of new stuff but nothing noteworthy. Zellner exuded immense confidence and looks like she's definitely gonna get the ball rolling soon. Kratz and his struggle beard was too much.

 

[Plasticine]

That struggle beard makes Kratz look almost as sleazy as he acts.

 

[BronsonLee]

Wait, why would she buy a RAV4? Were they testing something about the actual car?

hmm

 

[Plasticine]

They're probably testing the placement of physical evidence in the case, and trying to understand how things happened in that car.