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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix

R

RustyNails

Member
This is the craziest tweet yet from Zellner
Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 7h7 hours ago
All day re-tracing TH steps.No doubt she left Avery property alive.All roads lead to one door & it's not Steven Avery's.#MakingAMurderer
Click to expand...
She most definitely has something big.
 
Evolved1

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Wouldn't be surprising: her brother, ex boyfriend, two "went hunting" assholes who lied to cops and couldn't keep their stories straight.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Socreges said:
Does she have any history of being sensationalist?

Quite the tweet.
Click to expand...
No she doesn't, at least going by the r/MaM. She supposedly cares a lot about her reputation and wouldn't stake it unless it was rock solid. As for suspects,
Asked whether she and her team have identified suspects in the case, Zellner says yes—and that they are all men who knew Halbach. “We have a couple. I’d say there’s one, leading the pack by a lot. But I don’t want to scare him off, I don’t want him to run,” she says, explaining why she won’t say more. In that same conversation, Zellner said both law enforcement and defense attorneys failed to investigate Halbach’s life, noting that the victim was a very nice person just starting her career. When told that sometimes people who are very nice can still be murder victims, Zellner agrees, adding, “And women who have bad judgment about men are murdered.”
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And one in particular:
two days before her murder, about 15 minutes before midnight, Halbach made two calls to a phone number that belonged to a man recently charged with sex crimes in Arizona, records show. “A well-trained investigator, they’d be all over that. And they would have gone and talked to [that man], and they would have interviewed these other people that she’s talking to right before her death,” Zellner says. “She’s like prey being stalked, and that’s [the most likely type of] person who would have been after her.”

According to the Calumet County Sheriff's Department report on its interview of Thomas Pearce, a photographer who shared his studio with Halbach, Halbach was getting numerous phone calls she wouldn’t answer. The calls began in early summer to midsummer, there was a break, and then the calls started up again about three weeks before she was murdered. Zellner’s review of the initial investigation shows there was no probe of these mysterious phone calls. “You don’t just get information like that and file it,” she says. “What investigation was done? None. There was no effort to trace those calls.”
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We dont know if the Arizona connection is the one she's tweeting about. She's being understandably cryptic and like she said she doesn't want to scare that suspect off.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html
 
M

Micapo

Member
RustyNails said:
No she doesn't, at least going by the r/MaM. She supposedly cares a lot about her reputation and wouldn't stake it unless it was rock solid. As for suspects,

And one in particular:

We dont know if the Arizona connection is the one she's tweeting about. She's being understandably cryptic and like she said she doesn't want to scare that suspect off.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html
Click to expand...

I've tried so many times but all I get is: This magazine article is only available to paid subscribers

Can you give the gist of the article?
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
I think it's safe to say this is by far the greatest documentary of 2015 and maybe even in the last five years! Unbelievably riveting!

FlyinJ said:
Just finished it. Holy shit it was amazing. Absolutely riveting.

We need to spoiler discussion?

I don't understand how there was just a little 1 minute part about how the cop called in the missing RAV4 3 days before it was found. That was such a massive piece of evidence, the entire case against Avery should have collapsed. Am I missing something about that?
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I was left scratching my head on that one as well. Really confused as to why the defense didn't follow up on that. Colborn is a scumbag and should be behind bars.


BenjaminBirdie said:
im as infuriated as anyone else having finished the series but does anyone actually fucking believe as grossly incompetent and awful and hardcore framing the cops were, that they actually murdered someone? Holy shit lol
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Ever heard of Eric Gardner? Mike Brown?
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Just finished watching. So heartbreaking and infuriating.
Evolved1 said:
Wouldn't be surprising: her brother, ex boyfriend, two "went hunting" assholes who lied to cops and couldn't keep their stories straight.
Click to expand...

it always kind of creeped me out when they showed Halbach's brother, he was always calm and always 100% positive Avery did it. If it were me i would want to know at least how many suspects the police had, and if they only had 1 i would want to know why they only had one.
Its also crazy that the defense wasn't allowed to propose possible different suspects.


I was shocked and remain shocked that the Judge, the appeals court and supreme court all saw nothing wrong, at all, with Brendans pre-trail issues, continually being interrogated without gaurdian or legal representation.
Its also ridiculous to me that Kratz can stand up there in Avery's trail and say one man, and one man alone did this, and then continue to try Brendan. And that they're own story changed with each trial. For Avery it was "well wheres the blood" Kratz "well she was killed in the garage" but for Brendan "she was chained up on the bed" which fucking story is it?


I was not shocked but still disgusted at the police that were deposed in Avery's first case when asked about his innocence they were still like "not so sure about that" despite DNA evidence that exonerated him in the first place.

I hope they both get out, even if they both did it, the way in which the trials were handled the evidenced botched all should have been enough to get them off. I don't think either one of them were involved though. I did think his brother in law or whoever it was may have been involved the guy who says "avery got what was coming to him" he seemed like a real asshole.
 
A

Ayumi

Member
captive said:
I did think his brother in law or whoever it was may have been involved the guy who says "avery got what was coming to him" he seemed like a real asshole.
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It's funny because the same guy suddenly changed his mind, and now claims he believe Avery is innocent. I think he just doesn't want to be hated more than he already was, but I don't think a lot of people believe he means it when he says he supports Avery, etc.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Ayumi said:
It's funny because the same guy suddenly changed his mind, and now claims he believe Avery is innocent. I think he just doesn't want to be hated more than he already was, but I don't think a lot of people believe he means it when he says he supports Avery, etc.
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I just heard about that and you make a good point. Talk about wishywashy.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
RustyNails said:
This is the craziest tweet yet from Zellner

______________________________

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 7h7 hours ago
All day re-tracing TH steps.No doubt she left Avery property alive.All roads lead to one door & it's not Steven Avery's.#MakingAMurderer
_____________________________


She most definitely has something big.
Click to expand...

Did we ever find out what ever became of this clue? Is this her latest tweet?
 
R

RustyNails

Member
isamu said:
Did we ever find out what ever became of this clue? Is this her latest tweet?
Click to expand...
No and I dont think we will until the court date. She has a bunch of cards she is holding very, very close. It's understandable. She cannot afford to let slip anything else other than saying that the murderer is not Avery, and not tip off any suspects.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
RustyNails said:
No and I dont think we will until the court date. She has a bunch of cards she is holding very, very close. It's understandable. She cannot afford to let slip anything else other than saying that the murderer is not Avery, and not tip off any suspects.
Click to expand...

Ahh I gotcha.
 
V

Valkyr Junkie

Member
Just finished this after only watching the first episode when it first aired. This was absolutely infuriating to watch. How anyone could feel the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys were guilty is crazy.

Aside from the obvious shenanagins with the victim's voicemail, did they ever do any forensics on what cell towers her phone was pinging against prior to it disappearing? That would be pretty indicative of whether or not she left the salvage yard or not.
 
E

Erigu

Member
Valkyr Junkie said:
Aside from the obvious shenanagins with the victim's voicemail, did they ever do any forensics on what cell towers her phone was pinging against prior to it disappearing? That would be pretty indicative of whether or not she left the salvage yard or not.
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According to Avery's current attorney, the cell tower data does indeed prove that she (or her cell phone, at least) left the salvage yard.
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...-what-did-steven-averys-neighbor-see-20160708

Wilmer Siebert has lived near the salvage yard since the 1970s, near the entrance to the quarry road that runs behind the Avery property. There used to be an entrance to the rear of the Avery Salvage Yard down the road from his house. (This entrance, like several others, has since been blocked off, though the Avery family confirmed to Rolling Stone that those entrances were accessible in 2005.) Siebert told Klassen that he's not interested in the attention associated with this case, but like many others, the documentary made him ask questions. And while he knows the Averys casually, there doesn't seem to be a close personal relationship. In other words, Siebert seemingly has no reason to lie, though the veracity of what he remembers is another thing entirely.

Klassen interviewed Siebert, now in his 70s, on a recent visit to Manitowoc County; for the first time, Siebert spoke publicly about two separate incidents he says he witnessed in early November 2005. Siebert claimed that in early November, "days" before Halbach's car was found in the Avery lot, he was sitting in his backyard and saw what he believes was a RAV4 driving down the quarry road, followed closely by a white Jeep. While he admitted to Klassen that he couldn't be 100 percent certain it was her car, he remembers this vehicle was the same blue-green color as Halbach's, and he hadn't seen many RAV4s at the time, so the vehicle stuck out to him. The cars were going about 40 miles an hour, he said – faster than the usual for the road – though he wasn't able to see who was driving either vehicle. Siebert explained that he saw the two cars headed up the road and out of sight, then, about a half-hour later, the white Jeep came back down the road alone. "Shortly after," he said, "the lady found the car back there."
Click to expand...
 
A

Ayumi

Member
komplanen said:
^
I hope he gets to tell his story in court if there ever is a new trial.
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Based on all the new evidence and stuff Avery's new lawyer has gathered to prove him innocent, I don't think they need the neighbor's opinion. This is a good thing, really.
 
A

Ayumi

Member
komplanen said:
I'm so out of the loop. Is there a good summary?
Click to expand...

Alright, here's the summary of the whole thing after MaM based on what I remember, and what I found after a little research. I might have missed something!

- After MaM was on Netflix, lawyer Kathleen Zellner (often referred to ask KZ) decided to take Steven Avery's case after watching MaM. She is famous for exonerating 17 people who were wrongfully convicted of murder (and other things). She has done a lot more than that as well. Info here (her website).

- Kathleen knows Steven is innocent (she only takes cases of people she knows are innocent), and has per date managed to gather an amazing amount of proof and evidence that he is innocent.

- We don't know if she can help Brendan as well, even if Steven gets all charges dropped. However, KZ claims she has enough evidence about the case to prove both Steven and Brendan innocent. This might imply she knows who did it..

- A lot of evidence and stuff weren't tested, because of lack of technology and science back in 2007. Kathleen says she has tested a lot of old things (using forensic testing), and she states she has enough evidence to prove Steven innocent.

- Kathleen is tweeting, and often writes a lot of interesting but vague things. They always hint at good stuff.

- She cannot talk about her new/old evidence, so for the public (us), we barely see/know anything she can/might/will use. She claims she has "a tsunami of new evidence".

- No one yet knows who actually did it, and we don't know if Kathleen knows, or if Steven's exoneration will have evidence on who actually did it.

- We don't know too much right now since not a lot of it is public, but KZ filed for an extension (August 29) so she could buy a bit more time to gather up the evidence and such. She claims/aims to have Steven exonerated without a new trial.
Click to expand...


I guess that's the shortest summary I can come up with. I'm not too sure about Brendan. He has 2 attorneys to help him out, and I found this article with information.

There has been a lot of drama regarding Ken Kratz and other bad people involved, but that isn't too relevant right now - you can Google it if you want. Also, there have been people who were a part of the jury admitting they were scared into giving Steven and Brendan their verdicts. The whole jury was SUPER sketchy, and was carefully selected by people who wanted Steven in jail.

And the tl;dr:
Steven's amazing lawyer claims she has enough evidence to have both Steven and Brendan exonerated without needing a new trial. She filed for an extension, and it is (from what I saw) set to August 29th. She will present her proof/evidence on August 29th, and shit will go down. Steven's lawyer has previously helped exonerate 17 people wrongfully convicted of murder, so I think it's safe to say Steven (and probably Brendan too) will get out.

There will probably be some time after August 29th for the state/whoever is going through KZ's papers/evidence to make a decision though.. It's hard to stay patient, but I'm trying. lol
 
S

Slacker

Member
I wonder if the filmmakers are following the new lawyer around during this process. This will be fascinating to watch if so.
 
M

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
It would be crazy if they weren't following around Zellner and filming season 2. Even if she can't get the job done, it seems like a sure thing to get on film.
 
A

Ayumi

Member
Slacker said:
I wonder if the filmmakers are following the new lawyer around during this process. This will be fascinating to watch if so.
Click to expand...
Oh, they probably are. They've already interviewed Steven for future episodes and recorded the conversations. KZ is all for open public justice, so I'm pretty sure she would support the filmmakers.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Maybe they were unaware of this person?
 
D

Dalek

Member
Ayumi said:
Alright, here's the summary of the whole thing after MaM based on what I remember, and what I found after a little research. I might have missed something!




I guess that's the shortest summary I can come up with. I'm not too sure about Brendan. He has 2 attorneys to help him out, and I found this article with information.

There has been a lot of drama regarding Ken Kratz and other bad people involved, but that isn't too relevant right now - you can Google it if you want. Also, there have been people who were a part of the jury admitting they were scared into giving Steven and Brendan their verdicts. The whole jury was SUPER sketchy, and was carefully selected by people who wanted Steven in jail.

And the tl;dr:
Steven's amazing lawyer claims she has enough evidence to have both Steven and Brendan exonerated without needing a new trial. She filed for an extension, and it is (from what I saw) set to August 29th. She will present her proof/evidence on August 29th, and shit will go down. Steven's lawyer has previously helped exonerate 17 people wrongfully convicted of murder, so I think it's safe to say Steven (and probably Brendan too) will get out.

There will probably be some time after August 29th for the state/whoever is going through KZ's papers/evidence to make a decision though.. It's hard to stay patient, but I'm trying. lol
Click to expand...

Wow!
 
A

Ayumi

Member
RustyNails said:
This is crazy shit. Surprised Strang and Buting did not follow this lead.
Click to expand...

isamu said:
Maybe they were unaware of this person?
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He didn't come out and say anything about it until after the TV show. He probably thought it didn't matter since Steven was already found guilty. MaM wasn't released back then, so he didn't know of anything back then like we do now (such as planted evidence, emails, .pdf files etc).
 
T

toythatkills

Member
I wonder if this lawyer has actual concrete new stuff or whether it's all a bit tenuous but would be enough for a money-spinning new TV series.

Maybe I'm cynical.
 
A

Ayumi

Member
toythatkills said:
I wonder if this lawyer has actual concrete new stuff or whether it's all a bit tenuous but would be enough for a money-spinning new TV series.

Maybe I'm cynical.
Click to expand...

Have you actually read her website, or anything about her at all?

She is known for gaining the exoneration and release of 17 men in wrongful conviction cases. (Copied from her Wiki.)

The woman is crazy (in a good way). She actually managed to personally persuade a real killer to confess a crime someone else was convicted for. Then the false convict was released from death row.

Please read her Wiki page, at least. It's short, and has a lot of useful information. And her website has tons of details of her cases. I really, really, believe this isn't all just for show.
 
B

blainethemono

Member
https://twitter.com/john_diedrich

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A

Ayumi

Member
EightBitNate said:
Is this a sign that the other conviction will be overturned too?
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If you read the past 2-ish pages, you'll see that Steven has his own lawyer so she needs to work on that. She has until August 29th to file a brief or whatever it's called. It's a bit more complex for Steven since they found (planted) evidence on his property and his bedroom.
 
N

nilbog21

Banned
Just watched this series, and although I think Steven is innocent, I wouldn't go as far as to say the police planted evidence to frame him, unless the person who killed her is somehow tied to police and got help from there.. Whole case makes no sense, and the most coherent theory right now is that Steven did do it... Kratz is a vile scumbag but he's just doing his job. Also something about Steven's lawyer irks me.. Not dean Strang but the taller one. If I was a member of the jury I could not help myself from thinking this guy is full of shit and defending a guilty person..

Glad there was a member of the jury who had to leave on medical emergency though, so we can get a little insight of what happened in there, albeit fucked up..

And it's nice to see Steven is in good hands now. I am confident he will be released. And seeing how her brother handled the case I dont even care if they find who the killer is tbh

Also if they make a season 2 I hope they summarize all the sketchy evidence they ignored in season 1, for the sake of comprehensiveness..fabricating a one sided story is what got Steven imprisoned in the first place :/
 
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