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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean

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Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Falk said:
I -believe- it may be a plot triangulating the two possibilities based on the difference in time that the two stations picked up the event. The map is probably just showing both possibilities regardless of the fact that the Eastern one is the logically deducible source of the seismic event.
Click to expand...

Fjolle said:
The western blue circle is the other possibility. As there are only two measurement points the "event" might have occurred on two different points.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking, but I haven't seen it described as such, and have no background knowledge regarding how seismographs work such that I could deduce it for myself.

EDIT: The Google-Translated press release does describe the location thus(ish):

The incident occurred in local time at 2:55:06 on March 8, 2014, one of two possible locations at latitude 7 degrees 25 minutes east longitude 104 degrees 30 minutes, from the date of Malaysia MH370 Flights to Beijing last loss Union takes about a half hour (1:30), the last place lost to the northeast about 116 kilometers (72 miles).
Click to expand...

But I'm not sure how much weight to give that, seeing as how it's an automated translation.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Reuters said:
EXCLUSIVE: Radar data suggests missing Malaysia plane flown deliberately toward Andamans - sources

(Reuters) - Military radar-tracking evidence suggests a Malaysia Airlines jetliner missing for nearly a week was deliberately flown across the Malay peninsula towards the Andaman Islands, sources familiar with the investigation told Reuters on Friday.

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints - indicating it was being flown by someone with aviation training - when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

The last plot on the military radar's tracking suggested the plane was flying toward India's Andaman Islands, a chain of isles between the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal, they said.
Click to expand...

They also gave new details on the direction in which the unidentified aircraft was heading - following aviation corridors identified on maps used by pilots as N571 and P628. These routes are taken by commercial planes flying from Southeast Asia to the Middle East or Europe and can be found in public documents issued by regional aviation authorities.

In a far more detailed description of the military radar plotting than has been publicly revealed, the first two sources said the last confirmed position of MH370 was at 35,000 feet about 90 miles off the east coast of Malaysia, heading towards Vietnam, near a navigational waypoint called "Igari". The time was 1:21 a.m.

The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East.

From there, the plot indicates the plane flew towards a waypoint called "Gival", south of the Thai island of Phuket, and was last plotted heading northwest towards another waypoint called "Igrex", on route P628 that would take it over the Andaman Islands and which carriers use to fly towards Europe.

The time was then 2:15 a.m. That's the same time given by the air force chief on Wednesday, who gave no information on that plane's possible direction.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/us-malaysia-airlines-radar-exclusive-idUSBREA2D0DG20140314

It is quite specific if nothing else.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Welp, it's 30 minutes away from press conference. I hope that someone asking questions is on-the-ball enough to have picked up on this, regardless of if it pans out to be true or not.
 
C

Catchpenny

Member
Totakeke said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/us-malaysia-airlines-radar-exclusive-idUSBREA2D0DG20140314

It is quite specific if nothing else.
Click to expand...

tumblr_inline_mmco39JSlA1qz4rgp.gif
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Malaysian Press Conference 2014-03-14

(Will update post with stuff from PC)

PRE-AMBLE
- 57 ships, 48 aircraft in search, 13 countries involved, priority remains finding plane, etc etc etc

- As is standard procedure, investigation will not release information till corroboration is done. Working closely with US team whose officials are on the ground in Malaysia since Sunday. International team working on verifying radar detailed info but nothing to confirm atm

- Areas searched now includes Indian Ocean and South China Sea now, as circumstances force to widen search

- Yesterday, we rejected report re: engine data. We checked with Boeing and Rolls Royce. Quote: "Rolls Royce concurs with statement yesterday"

- Oil slicks not related to MH370

QUESTIONS - LOCAL
- Re: turnback, reiterating statement yesterday, military radar not conclusive, that has not changed

- Working closely with team from US to get satellite data. Cannot reveal information right now, still under investigation. This evening, team from Aircraft Investigation Board UK, & Rolls Royce experts arrived. Exploring possibility of satellite communication.

- Regarding hierarchy of investigation - Under protocol of international civil aviation, in this case it's still categorized as missing aircraft. If location cannot be determined, the state of registration has to spearhead investigation. (In this case, Malaysia), "We are following that protocol"

- Cannot confirm that it was not hijacking. We are very consistent in saying we are looking at all possibilities.

- Re: contacting other airlines that this happened to - We accept all assistance. However this situation cannot directly be compared as the aircraft hasn't been found (?????)

- Re: other country's radar data - question dodged

- Re: American statement about "we received data from Malaysian officials" - unless a specific name is dropped, not entertaining these questions.

- (Malay answer) - Was it a deliberate transponder shutdown? We only know the transponder shut off. Whether it's deliberate, is still under investigation.

- (Malay answer) - Seismic pings from china? - No information on that.

- (Malay answer) - How long will the search go on? - We are appreciative of local and international support - we will keep looking; this is why the search area is expanding. I'm feeling appreciative and it's hard facing the families when we have no information. On a personal level, motivation comes from the fact so many countries are involved with so much sophisticated equipment.

- Vietnamese Government cooperation has been very positive to the extent that Malaysian S&R is allowed to conduct in their waters. Whatever status they put on their operations, we are still commited.

QUESTIONS - INTERNATIONAL
- Looking at possibility of cabin crew being involved

- Search being expanded because we have not found anything in previous search area

- Regarding shutdown of communications: Four or five possibilities: It could be done intentionally, it could be done under duress, it could be done because of malfunction. Regarding foul play by crew, police's jurisdiction. Not going to speculate.

- re: "The experts from US statement said satellite pings": Counter-question - "WHO made those statements?"

- Experts still working whether ping on military radar is in fact MH370. As soon as that is verified, can focus search west. Until then, South China Sea needs to be searched too. FAA/NTSB started yesterday and said Malaysia was right to search both west and east for now.

- Pilot's home simulation - Everyone is free to have their own hobby. Quite a few pilots do have flight simulators at home. Police have not searched that home yet. Investigations regarding pilot is still ongoing.

- Why have you not searched pilot's home? - Cannot say anything until police investigation finishes. IGP looking at psychological, personal, etc.

- Regarding changing information: This is what the press conferences are for. We have rebutted a lot of 'information'. The conflicting information is not coming from our team. It's coming from speculation which we feel the public needs to know we rebutt on a daily basis.

- No confirmed plot of MH370. We are not discounting the possibility of that happening.

- Clarification: We did not outright deny flight for 5 hours. We said it's not corroborated.

- Regarding transparency and full disclosure from Boeing and Rolls Royce. Don't think it's warranted as they have been working with us.

- Complied to all AD and SVs, the airplane was flight worthy

PC end

FALKRANT (keyword for thread search, ignore)
 
M

Munin

Member
I find it curious how this thread started out with "nobody make any Lost / etc jokes have some respect for the dead!" and now it's always a couple gags per page. Not that I personally want to judge anyone for anything. I guess it's just normal in such a weird situation.
 
D

Dryk

Member
Metaphoreus said:
That's what I was thinking, but I haven't seen it described as such, and have no background knowledge regarding how seismographs work such that I could deduce it for myself.
Click to expand...
The surface waves and underground waves travel at different speeds and then seismologists can literally read the radius off a chart. Then with two stations you get two possible points.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Munin said:
I find it curious how this thread started out with "nobody make any Lost / etc jokes have some respect for the dead!" and now it's always a couple gags per page. Not that I personally want to judge anyone for anything. I guess it's just normal in such a weird situation.
Click to expand...

Speaking for myself, you can't keep up with a tense situation for days on end. A lot of the derision I have isn't towards the situation per-se but more of the questionable behavior resulting from the entire thing. (See: shaman rituals)


Press conference didn't turn up anything new. We'll see if the Americans find anything, I guess. If those more-recent articles are to be believed.
 
C

criesofthepast

Member
My first thought when all this happened was to check for seismic activity near where they expected the plane crashed. I'm surprised that isn't one of the first things they did and are just now mentioning it.
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
criesofthepast said:
My first thought when all this happened was to check for seismic activity near where they expected the plane crashed. I'm surprised that isn't one of the first things they did and are just now mentioning it.
Click to expand...

Look at the "second" spot in said graphics. Its one of the most seismically active areas in the world, the volcano belt.
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
Falk said:
Malaysian Press Conference 2014-03-14

- Pilot's home simulation - Everyone is free to have their own hobby. Quite a few pilots do have flight simulators at home. Police have not searched that home yet. Investigations regarding pilot is still ongoing.
Click to expand...

waiting for the press to reveal that the pilot was a world of warcraft, grand theft auto and call of duty addict...
 
wondermega

wondermega

Member
1st of all, thanks to all of those providing up to date info in this fascinating and extremely tragic case :(

Now... Crashing into the ocean, that I get, but crashing into the ocean floor? And causing a seismic event.. Is such a thing even logically possible? Number one, how deep is the ocean, I've no clue but I'm sure it's not trivial. Number two, even if some of the plane could have made impact, wouldn't it have been sufficiently ripped apart before it even reached the bottom.. Even if it was heading straight down? It just sounds impossible to me.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
I'm assuming hitting the surface of the water at that velocity should be enough to create a significant shockwave downwards/outwards at the moment of impact.

Also would depend how deep the ocean floor is in that general area, I guess. We're not talking about a magnitude 8 earthquake here.

edit: The longer this goes on the more I feel that everyone wants their lead to be the right one so they're jumping the gun and being a lot more cocksure about it than they should be. If it turns out they were right and they were the earliest to report on it they get to go "SEE WE WERE RIGHT, LALALALALA" and all that jazz. This is leading to a lot of really sloppy media reporting. We saw this with the marathon bombing last year.
 
C

Cushen

Neo Member
wondermega said:
Number one, how deep is the ocean, I've no clue but I'm sure it's not trivial.
Click to expand...

I do believe the area of the seismic activity is ~200ft deep, although I'm still not sure it would matter.

----

Too many stories to keep up with at this point. We need a conclusion. :/
 
M

Mully

Member
wondermega said:
1st of all, thanks to all of those providing up to date info in this fascinating and extremely tragic case :(

Now... Crashing into the ocean, that I get, but crashing into the ocean floor? And causing a seismic event.. Is such a thing even logically possible? Number one, how deep is the ocean, I've no clue but I'm sure it's not trivial. Number two, even if some of the plane could have made impact, wouldn't it have been sufficiently ripped apart before it even reached the bottom.. Even if it was heading straight down? It just sounds impossible to me.
Click to expand...

A meteor fell into the South China Sea around the same time as the take off of MH370. The seismic event could have been triggered by the meteor or an earthquake. Remember a 9.1 earthquake happened near there ten years ago.

Dimefan3 said:
Is it just me, or does the Malaysian government seem like they're just trying to cover shit up?

The US seems to be coming up with some pretty important info, and the Malay government are just shrugging it off.
Click to expand...

I've only been following this thread, Reddit threads, my own research (mostly Wikipedia), and briefly CNN (three days ago), but the Chinese, Vietnamese, Malaysian, and Taiwanese governments seem to be jockeying for power even as there's slim chances that there could be survivors. Most of the Southeast Asian countries seem to be more worried about getting, "their," information out rather than the correct information. It's despicable.
 
D

Dimefan3

Member
Is it just me, or does the Malaysian government seem like they're just trying to cover shit up?

The US seems to be coming up with some pretty important info, and the Malay government are just shrugging it off.
 
S

syllogism

Member
http://www.inmarsat.com/news/inmarsat-statement-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/

Inmarsat statement on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370
14 March 2014: Inmarsat has issued the following statement regarding Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Routine, automated signals were registered on the Inmarsat network from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 during its flight from Kuala Lumpur.

This information was provided to our partner SITA, which in turn has shared it with Malaysia Airlines.

For further information, please contact Malaysia Airlines.
Click to expand...
Interesting that the statement specifically says that these signals were from MH370 rather than some unknown plane.
 
K

Kinky John

Member
I don't see any evidence of the Malaysian's covering anything up. I just see a bunch of people doing their best with limited data to work with. It looks like that's changing thankfully.
 
I

itsgreen

Member
Lamel

Lamel

Banned
sonikokaruto said:
actually, the plane needs the air over it's wings, so the pressure under it increases and the pressure over it decreases, thus, creating lift
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Well air passes both over and under the wings.

The air over the wings passes faster, thus lowering the pressure above the wing, and the pressure from below creates lift.

Same principle explains why your car moves if a truck passes by really fast!
 
S

syllogism

Member
The hijacking angle still makes no sense to me, at least if the plane landed somewhere. How do you prevent 240 people from contacting the outside world once the plane lands? Or even during the flight, as there were likely times when cellphones could have had signal. What do you do with the passengers? How do you even subdue them during the flight? How many hijackers would this require? I imagine at least 5+ heavily armed ones and I doubt there are that many potential candidates aboard. Why would you even hijack a plane for "later use", when the whole world will be on alert for said plane? It seems to me that this would have had to be an operation much more complex than 9/11 and for what?
 
J

jrDev

Member
I haven't been following this closely but did anyone come up with an explanation of how this possible in this day and age?
 
Darren870

Darren870

Member
syllogism said:
The hijacking angle still makes no sense to me, at least if the plane landed somewhere. How do you prevent 240 people from contacting the outside world once the plane lands? Or even during the flight, as there were likely times when cellphones could have had signal. What do you do with the passengers? How do you even subdue them during the flight? How many hijackers would this require? I imagine at least 5+ heavily armed ones and I doubt there are that many potential candidates aboard. Why would you even hijack a plane for "later use", when the whole world will be on alert for said plane? It seems to me that this would have had to be an operation much more complex than 9/11 and for what?
Click to expand...

Well if it was the pilots, you don't really have to tell the passengers where you're going. You would assume you're on course.

Getting all electronics and cellphones is tricky. Unless you were going to a place where there was no reception. Even then, you'd think someone might have a sat phone.
 
D

Dryk

Member
KHarvey16 said:
Of course it would! The plane moves through the air no differently. The treadmill doesn't do anything of significance beyond making the wheels spin faster.
Click to expand...
Even if the brakes are on it won't work.

For a 777-200, maximum take-off weight is 297,550 kg and the rubber-rubber coefficient of friction is 1.16 giving a maximum force of 345kN. Each one of those engines can produce 415kN so the treadmill could never hold it still regardless.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Darren870 said:
Getting all electronics and cellphones is tricky. Unless you were going to a place where there was no reception. Even then, you'd think someone might have a sat phone.
Click to expand...

An example from fiction is cringeworthy, but in Langoliers they reduced air pressure to knock everyone out.

edit: Holy shit I can't believe I made this post. I'm going to bed.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
syllogism said:
The hijacking angle still makes no sense to me, at least if the plane landed somewhere. How do you prevent 240 people from contacting the outside world once the plane lands? Or even during the flight, as there were likely times when cellphones could have had signal. What do you do with the passengers? How do you even subdue them during the flight? How many hijackers would this require? I imagine at least 5+ heavily armed ones and I doubt there are that many potential candidates aboard. Why would you even hijack a plane for "later use", when the whole world will be on alert for said plane? It seems to me that this would have had to be an operation much more complex than 9/11 and for what?
Click to expand...
I don't really like the pirating angle because I agree with these points. It'd be really stupid to try to land this plane somewhere because you'd have 200+ passengers and then you have to have a damn good use for the plane (which I doubt since any competent country's air defense would shoot this plane down once it gets near the country's border). Really the only reason someone would try to hijack this plane is to try to crash it somewhere. That being said, if you're willing to hijack a plane, I imagine you don't really care about the health and safety of its passengers so they could just have been killed off. To avoid the cell phones, they could just land somewhere that has no cell coverage. This entire scenario isn't really probable at all though.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
My dad hasn't been home for days.

It was my birthday 2 days ago but he couldn't even make it to dinner. Hell, my cousin is getting married tomorrow and he can't even come. He has been working with his team on this all week. Thankfully it looks like they've gotten how to handle press conferences better now.

Fact is, no one knows what happened and that's the biggest problem. There's leads all over the place and EVERYONE expects them to follow all the leads available. It's a gigantic international search operation, but there's no definite location to focus on.

It's fucking distressing just looking at the scale of the search. Just throwing it out there.

Oh and fuck the conspiracy theorists.
 
breakfuss

breakfuss

Member
Just received a CNN update on my phone that reads: "radar suggests ..flight...was deliberately flown toward Andaman Islands". This just keeps getting weirder.
 
L

LegoArmo

Member
FlutterPuffs said:
My dad hasn't been home for days.

It was my birthday 2 days ago but he couldn't even make it to dinner. Hell, my cousin is getting married tomorrow and he can't even come. He has been working with his team on this all week. Thankfully it looks like they've gotten how to handle press conferences better now.

Fact is, no one knows what happened and that's the biggest problem. There's leads all over the place and EVERYONE expects them to follow all the leads available. It's a gigantic international search operation, but there's no definite location to focus on.

It's fucking distressing just looking at the scale of the search. Just throwing it out there.

Oh and fuck the conspiracy theorists.
Click to expand...

Happy belated birthday, mate. Sounds like a really stressful time for your dad and your family. Hopefully the investigation comes to a conclusion as soon as possible.
 
S

Serra

Member
Big thanks to Falk for covering the press conferences!

syllogism said:
Or even during the flight, as there were likely times when cellphones could have had signal.
Click to expand...

Electronic warfare military gear can render them useless easily, instantly.

Im not saying it was hijacked or anything, the million other possibilities are far more likely in my mind.
 
A

Ace Harding

Member
Foul play appears to be the most likely explanation at this point, right? Planes generally don't just fly with numerous communication systems shut down for 5+ hours in the opposite direction from the scheduled destination by accident.

What did they say the likely range of this plane was? If this flew along flight paths to Europe or the Middle East as reports suggest, how far could it have flown?
 
Finaika

Finaika

Member
FlutterPuffs said:
My dad hasn't been home for days.

It was my birthday 2 days ago but he couldn't even make it to dinner. Hell, my cousin is getting married tomorrow and he can't even come. He has been working with his team on this all week. Thankfully it looks like they've gotten how to handle press conferences better now.

Fact is, no one knows what happened and that's the biggest problem. There's leads all over the place and EVERYONE expects them to follow all the leads available. It's a gigantic international search operation, but there's no definite location to focus on.

It's fucking distressing just looking at the scale of the search. Just throwing it out there.

Oh and fuck the conspiracy theorists.
Click to expand...

selamat hari lahir
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Finaika said:
selamat hari lahir
Click to expand...

Fjolle said:
Sigh. That must really suck. Happy belated birthday though :)

I really hope that they find something soon.
Click to expand...

LegoArmo said:
Happy belated birthday, mate. Sounds like a really stressful time for your dad and your family. Hopefully the investigation comes to a conclusion as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. I'm fine, just hope my dad is alright even if he's overworked to hell :p
 
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