Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Force Awakens>Last Jedi>Phantom Menace>Revenge of the Sith>Rise of Skywalker>Attack of the Clones
Edited for stupidity
Edited for stupidity
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Man...how the fuck did disney fuck up their starwars trilogy so bad?
- Thread starter Umbasaborne
- Start date
- Social Opinion
ManaByte
Gold Member
I don't think you know how greater/less symbols work with that AOTC ranking.
Hulk_Smash
Banned
ManaByte
Gold Member
Except people love the Prequels now.
Marvel14
Banned
The Hobbit Trilogy is a Frankenstein's fuck up...how can you take a fast paced story full of comedy, tragedy and high adventure that lasts less than 300 pages and turn it into a plodding overstuffed humourless epic LOTR 2? It is a crime that Peter Jackson should apologise for like Schumacher did for Batman and Robin.
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Marvel14
Banned
Anyone who loves the acting in the prequels needs their heads examined.
Batiman
Banned
They were stuck in the middle of pleasing old school fans and doing something new. TFA was fun as hell but the more I watched it the more it felt like a remake. TLJ was amazing besides Finns plot in the middle of the movie. TROS was just messy as fuck. It had a chance at redeeming the whole trilogy but failed. Reminds me of the hobbit trilogy, where the last movie fails to give satisfying ending. I still had a good time with them overall but could’ve been so much more.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Simply because they never planned anything past the first and the first was to add a female lead who could control the force and add a black man who sheds his white skin/armour.
Halo is Back
Member
Greed and the wrong people in charge ruined the brand.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Ha! Yes, sorry. Whoops! ..........Fixed it. Thanks!
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Fbh
Member
What's crazy is that they had to follow up the prequels, not some amazing masterpiece of filmmaking and story telling...but the prequels. Movies which were already pretty shitty to begin with.
And they failed.
And the sequels are as if someone took that shitty Jeremy Irons D&D movie, shoehorned gandalf an old Frodo in there and called it the official canon follow up to LOTR
And they failed.
And the sequels are as if someone took that shitty Jeremy Irons D&D movie, shoehorned gandalf an old Frodo in there and called it the official canon follow up to LOTR
InterMusketeer
Member
You'd think Disney with their experience, connections and money would make damn sure everything would work out perfectly. Yet somehow they failed. It really is incompetence at a level and scale rarely seen.
Heck, even if I didn't like the direction these movies went in personally, if they had at least told a consistent story, the franchise could easily continue in a new form. With what we ended up getting, I don't see a future for the franchise apart from spin-offs that don't reference the new films at all.
What's more interesting is how they're going to fix this. They will effectively have to scrub the sequel trilogy from the history books if they want to make more movies. Unless they're willing to wait until people start feeling nostalgic for these stupid movies.
Heck, even if I didn't like the direction these movies went in personally, if they had at least told a consistent story, the franchise could easily continue in a new form. With what we ended up getting, I don't see a future for the franchise apart from spin-offs that don't reference the new films at all.
What's more interesting is how they're going to fix this. They will effectively have to scrub the sequel trilogy from the history books if they want to make more movies. Unless they're willing to wait until people start feeling nostalgic for these stupid movies.
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Cleared_Hot
Member
I'm all about discussing what's so screwed up and bad about these movies but the fact that you think last jedi was half decent and rise of skywalker was worse is bonkers. TLJ fucking destroys star wars and TROS desperately tries to clean up the mess and also fails
CertifiedKiwi
Member
They were not too bad.
Off topic: im hoping for a good Dune adaptation. Its releasing this year. Not as well known as Starwars but quite similar in some ways.
Off topic: im hoping for a good Dune adaptation. Its releasing this year. Not as well known as Starwars but quite similar in some ways.
Cleared_Hot
Member
Tlj is one of the most poorly written and plot hole ridden movies ever made. I cannot even attempt to understand how ANYONE can honestly say they liked it, let alone compare it to the greatness of ESB. Hell just look at how polar opposite the endings were. TLJ's ending is all like "everyone's dead except twelve of us WOOOO!!!! HIGH FIVES
"
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Fox Mulder
Member
It’s the morons in charge at Lucasfilm. Under the same Disney umbrella, Marvel is doing amazing with the MCU breaking records and almost no fan base anger like Star Wars.
Even a success with Mandalorian is dragged down by politics on social media.
Even a success with Mandalorian is dragged down by politics on social media.
Master Of Illusion
Member
Carrie Fisher died, they fired the guy originally in charge of IX, tossed out his script, and made a final movie under a condensed deadline & intentionally made the most fan-fiction shit to appease TLJ haters (on top of additional cuts made by corporate a month before release because GOD FORBID a Star Wars film can run 150 mins+ again while Marvel is allowed a full 3 hours).
Shame too. I really liked Force Awakens and Last Jedi, and Dual Of The Fates would've been a home run of a final chapter. Unfortunately, if the finale doesn't stick the ending, it sours the other two movies.
Johnson is a character study guy. TLJ has plenty of world building, so does Looper & Knives Out, but it comes out of the development of character and story first instead of vice-versa.
Shame too. I really liked Force Awakens and Last Jedi, and Dual Of The Fates would've been a home run of a final chapter. Unfortunately, if the finale doesn't stick the ending, it sours the other two movies.
They're starting to do that with The Mandalorian and it's 2nd season came across like some flaccid marketing campaign. A overarching plan is good, but the "Marvel Assembly Line" approach is the last thing I want from SW.
Johnson is a character study guy. TLJ has plenty of world building, so does Looper & Knives Out, but it comes out of the development of character and story first instead of vice-versa.
Kev Kev
Member
I loved it!Tlj is one of the most poorly written and plot hole ridden movies ever made. I cannot even attempt to understand how ANYONE can honestly say they liked it, let alone compare it to the greatness of ESB. Hell just look at how polar opposite the endings were. TLJ's ending is all like "everyone's dear except twelve of us WOOOO!!!! HIGH FIVES
AppleBlade
Member
They could have been better but I just do not understand how people can think they are horrible. There were some good moments in all the films and I enjoyed them all. I guess my standards are just low because I enjoyed the prequels as well as Rogue 1 (which was amazing) and Solo. Star Wars movie mix Sci-Fi, Humor and adventure in a package my wife and kids and love as well and that hasn't changed.
Pumpkin Seeds
Member
They had no singular vision.
Every issue in RoS is because it was trying to make up for all the fuck ups TLJ made. TFA was super safe and then TLJ was super senseless and purposely so. You have to appreciate that Rian was trying to muck up the whole thing.
All because they just handed off each movie with no grand idea and Kathleen Kennedy is a careerist not a story maker. They gave Mando to people who actually appreciated the mythological story telling factors that built up the original and it worked out despite being a side story. (And then fucked it up over politics.)
Every issue in RoS is because it was trying to make up for all the fuck ups TLJ made. TFA was super safe and then TLJ was super senseless and purposely so. You have to appreciate that Rian was trying to muck up the whole thing.
All because they just handed off each movie with no grand idea and Kathleen Kennedy is a careerist not a story maker. They gave Mando to people who actually appreciated the mythological story telling factors that built up the original and it worked out despite being a side story. (And then fucked it up over politics.)
daveonezero
Banned
The prequels have all this crazy shit going on in them that are only good after watching the Clone Wars. Also the technology and CGI sucked.
The Sequels were shit because no one knew what the fuck they were working with. They really fucked up not having Luke Leia and Han go on an adventure in Ep 9.
The Sequels were shit because no one knew what the fuck they were working with. They really fucked up not having Luke Leia and Han go on an adventure in Ep 9.
Cockles & Whelks
Banned
AOTC is like Citizen Kane compared to the sequels.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Star wars disney.... the worst error is not give the importance to the original cast and put a new '' Youtubers teenage cast'' as main characters.
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VulcanRaven
Member
Thy didn't plan out the story. They basically let the directors to do whatever they wanted.
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ItsGreat
Member
They killed Luke a film too early.
The 9 part Skywalker Saga had no Skywalker for the last film. The Emperor lasted longer than Luke fucking Skywalker.
Luke should have been hermitng and learning hardcore Jedi shit on the little island. Enough hardcore shit to use the force to let the obi-wan, windu and Yoda force ghosts smash the shit out of the Emperor and then they and Luke leave the galaxy and go to force ghost heaven instead of lurking around funeral pyres. Job done.
Shitty fanfiction I know, but remember fanfiction is just a derogatory term to keep screenwriters safe in their jobs.
The 9 part Skywalker Saga had no Skywalker for the last film. The Emperor lasted longer than Luke fucking Skywalker.
Luke should have been hermitng and learning hardcore Jedi shit on the little island. Enough hardcore shit to use the force to let the obi-wan, windu and Yoda force ghosts smash the shit out of the Emperor and then they and Luke leave the galaxy and go to force ghost heaven instead of lurking around funeral pyres. Job done.
Shitty fanfiction I know, but remember fanfiction is just a derogatory term to keep screenwriters safe in their jobs.
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Cockles & Whelks
Banned
Rian Johnson didn't know Rise of Skywalker plans while making The Last Jedi
Rian Johnson didn't know Rise of Skywalker plans while making The Last Jedi.
www.joblo.com
Clown Movie World. Unforgivable.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Ben Solo is a Skywalker.
They were given a plan by Lucas and threw it out the window. Abrams made a decent Force Awakes and then they threw out the plan for the series when they made the sequel. For the last movie they tried to fix what they broke in the last film and stuff as much nostalgia in the film as possible and made something. TLJ pretty much didn't create any hype and just finished the trilogy with a whimper. I did enjoy all 3 movies even if I thought some were terrible after I watched them. The biggest issue is that they don't have a someone who has a overall vision for the series and Kathleen Kennedy just okays anything and pushes agenda.
Moving on they should abandon the trilogy system for now. Go the marvel route and create stories/movies that interlink with characters who then meet up to fight in a big war. Rogue one was great the and I loved the characters but the only problem is everyone died at the end.
Moving on they should abandon the trilogy system for now. Go the marvel route and create stories/movies that interlink with characters who then meet up to fight in a big war. Rogue one was great the and I loved the characters but the only problem is everyone died at the end.
ManaByte
Gold Member
That's not entirely true. Lucas gave them his outline for his Episode VII that he was going to make prior to selling the company. JJ Abrams threw it out because he wanted to remake A New Hope. The Last Jedi's core story is very similar to Lucas' Episode VII that was about a no-name orphan searching for and finding Luke as a crazy Colonel Kurtz-style hermit. But his Sequel Trilogy was also very different. Finn is a combination of two different characters from Lucas' movie and Poe didn't exist. Also the son of Han and Leia was seduced to the Dark Side by Darth Talon (yes, the same Talon from the Legacy comics). Lucas had some kind of fetish for Darth Talon because he wanted her in the cancelled Darth Maul game too. Lucas' trilogy was also going to be heavily about Midichorlians and there wasn't going to be recognizable X-Wings or TIE Fighters re-used.
Ionian
Member
Rogue One really was great, the ending had an impact.
The idea of taking a Marvel approach is also great, kinda doing it with Mando. More character, have them interact between arcs to build something new.
Seeing Asoka in Mando was a delight, her duel with the imperial woman (no idea the name), was glorious.
Stuff like the Solo film though is best avoided. If we don't at least get an Admiral Ackbar film I will riot. That or Nien Numb. Hell even Sly Snootles learning his jazz chops.
EDIT: Pic of Sly in Jabba's palace, overdub "you might be wondering how I got here ... ".
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Didn't know about Darth Talon but having googled images of her I completely approve whatever she is in. I can understand Disney dropping her though. I find crazy Luke annoying without having seen why he went that way in previous movies. Let us see the fall if your going to destroy our hero. I would have liked to have passed on the whole Midichorlians thing. I feel like it kills the mysticalness of the force.
I think a movie starring Darth Vader with him just being a badass would work wonders for the Star Wars brand. Maybe introduce a myth that he comes across in passing and make a new series of movies from that myth. The Darth Vader movie could just be shortish film to create hype and plop it on Disney plus.
To be honest I never finished the second season and now all of the drama with Gina has completely soured me on the show.
No to Admiral Ackbar, Nien Numb would make a great side character to the hero, and hell no to Sly Snootles( it would make for an interesting short film).
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Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Really hated that they had no plan in place for whatever dumb reason as a deference to the directors for their own unique "vision".
Also hated that "subverting expectations" mostly just meant killing off beloved OG characters. How about killing off one of the new principals instead you fucks? That would actually subvert expectations.
Didn't help that John Williams is a thousand years old and Rey's theme was the only iconic thing that came out of that entire trilogy. Which is a shame because the PT was actually better than the OT to me which showed that he could surpass even his legendary works.
Also hated that "subverting expectations" mostly just meant killing off beloved OG characters. How about killing off one of the new principals instead you fucks? That would actually subvert expectations.
Didn't help that John Williams is a thousand years old and Rey's theme was the only iconic thing that came out of that entire trilogy. Which is a shame because the PT was actually better than the OT to me which showed that he could surpass even his legendary works.
ManaByte
Gold Member
I don't think even the Arndt draft had Talon in it. That was entirely Lucas' development. There was concept art of her and everything done from his version. He handed over that outline to Disney, Abrams tossed it and they hired Arndt to write a script. Apparently his script was a "Prequel apology tour" where Kira and two other characters (basically the Lucas characters) hired mercenaries to hunt for Luke. That was ditched for a safe nostalgia checklist that remade ANH.
Ionian
Member
Yeah agreed a Vader film would be awesome but think the animated ones already covered it. Seeing him and Leia in Rogue One gave me chills for the brief moment they were there.
I thought Mando Season 2 was far better than the first. Gina really doesn't play a big part in it at all, she's just part of some missions as a side character.
If you're not going to watch it please at least watch this, contains a spoiler for the future season but is so amazingly well done. (Music isn't in episode).
I'm mixed on this. I enjoyed Force Awakens but the old script sounds really interesting and a bit out there. A prequel apology tour is funny. Wait aren't they supposedly trying to find he-man in the new movie.
Unfortunately I haven't watched any of the animated star wars stuff. It's always on my to do list but I get intimidated over how much I probably have to watch to catch up. I do think that live action Vader would reach a larger audience.
Ionian
Member
There is a lot, kinda dipped in and out myself. Think there's a list online.
Just covers parts between the films but it's mostly side-quests again with some fleshing out of the films.
Last series of The Clone Wars was great. Hated the art-style for Rebels so didn't bother with it. Darth Vader looks stupid in it, kinda more anime than the Clone Wars.
But Mando Season 2, it's worth a watch even if you don't like some episodes it does pay off.
Reality Czar
Banned
They did not bother to write out their trilogy. At all. Lots of people will tell you this is the same as the OT. It is not. George Lucas wrote many scripts before finally settling on the final script for Star Wars.
Before they even started rolling in 1976 George had written half a dozen treatments and drafts, an entire catalog of planets, characters, ships, concepts, etc. The first ever draft was written in 1973, giving him 3 solid years of pre production and world building. The concept of a Skywalker (or "Starkiller" as it was called then) bloodline with an old Jedi with twins was an old one that predated the films. Many of the characters, events, and planets that George came up with in the early '70s would not appear onscreen until 30 years later with the prequels. He lied in some ways when he said he had it all planned out as in he didn't literally have the three finished scripts sitting around for years until filming. But in many ways he had done all the creative work, coming up with the raw material for story telling. He really did write out 6 movies worth of ideas before starting on the first.
The new guys were not afforded the time to do that kind of development. The franchise sold in 2012. Writing and pre production started in 2013. The movie started filming in 2014. TFA came out in 2015, 2 years after they started writing it. That is one year worth of pre-production development vs three years. The reason? Money. They wanted to shovel out a new movie a year.
On top of that, they did not communicate. J.J. did not work with Rian on the scripts outside of one scene that connects directly to Rian's movie. Rian did not work with Colin Trevorrow at all, and Colin was apparently shunned by the Lucasfilm story group. At least with the OT, George Lucas was behind each film, he could think about where things might be years in advance. One guy was in charge vs. too many cooks. J.J. was game enough to do worldbuilding. But Rian had admitted himself that he "couldn't see getting excited" about world building or anything that didn't happen inside his own movie. That selfishness and tunnel vision doomed the trilogy even more than it already was. When Colin was let go, J.J. was ordered to execute Nostalgia Order 66 and clean up the pieces.
Before they even started rolling in 1976 George had written half a dozen treatments and drafts, an entire catalog of planets, characters, ships, concepts, etc. The first ever draft was written in 1973, giving him 3 solid years of pre production and world building. The concept of a Skywalker (or "Starkiller" as it was called then) bloodline with an old Jedi with twins was an old one that predated the films. Many of the characters, events, and planets that George came up with in the early '70s would not appear onscreen until 30 years later with the prequels. He lied in some ways when he said he had it all planned out as in he didn't literally have the three finished scripts sitting around for years until filming. But in many ways he had done all the creative work, coming up with the raw material for story telling. He really did write out 6 movies worth of ideas before starting on the first.
The new guys were not afforded the time to do that kind of development. The franchise sold in 2012. Writing and pre production started in 2013. The movie started filming in 2014. TFA came out in 2015, 2 years after they started writing it. That is one year worth of pre-production development vs three years. The reason? Money. They wanted to shovel out a new movie a year.
On top of that, they did not communicate. J.J. did not work with Rian on the scripts outside of one scene that connects directly to Rian's movie. Rian did not work with Colin Trevorrow at all, and Colin was apparently shunned by the Lucasfilm story group. At least with the OT, George Lucas was behind each film, he could think about where things might be years in advance. One guy was in charge vs. too many cooks. J.J. was game enough to do worldbuilding. But Rian had admitted himself that he "couldn't see getting excited" about world building or anything that didn't happen inside his own movie. That selfishness and tunnel vision doomed the trilogy even more than it already was. When Colin was let go, J.J. was ordered to execute Nostalgia Order 66 and clean up the pieces.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Yes that was just A New Hope. READ THE JONATHAN RINZLER BOOKS. The books actually show how each movie was made up as they went along, complete with transcripts of the story meetings where things like Kasdan telling Lucas he was full of shit took place. All of the development of the OT is 100% documented in those three books and they were completely made up as they went along. Like when they got to ROTJ George was so stressed out from his divorce he didn't want to bother figuring out what to do with Boba Fett, so he told them to just "toss him in the pit".
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
A heavy case of making shit up as they went along with no clear creative vision.
Never should have let Rian Johnson just make whatever he pleased.
Even if true and it miraculously worked out for the first three movies, that's obviously not a good way to make a movie trilogy with a connected story and massive existing universe and lore.
Never should have let Rian Johnson just make whatever he pleased.
Even if true and it miraculously worked out for the first three movies, that's obviously not a good way to make a movie trilogy with a connected story and massive existing universe and lore.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
The first draft of ESB was vastly different than what we got with Luke sitting down and having a conversation with Anakin's force ghost. Vader wasn't the father until much later.
ROTJ wasn't even the final movie. Leia originally wasn't even the sister. They made her the sister late when Lucas decided he wasn't going to continue with Episode 7. Originally ROTJ ended with Leia being married and Luke looking on knowing he lost her forever, and then the other Skywalker (his sister) would show up in Episode 7 named Nellith. Gary Kurtz has talked about that and how Lucas' divorce burned him out and killed any desire to go past ROTJ at the time. That's why Leia was kissing Luke in ANH and ESB, originally they weren't siblings when those movies were made.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's fine. I don't really care if the original trilogy was a miracle out of a shitshow. Seems idiotic to emulate the shitshow creative process in hopes of getting another miracle, especially when you're dealing with an established franchise.
dr_octagon
Banned
I would have liked a John Wick style film with Luke Skywalker seeking revenge.
Kylo Ren carried the films. Hux, Snoke, Luke, Poe and Finn became side characters instead of having a proper story arc.
Kylo Ren carried the films. Hux, Snoke, Luke, Poe and Finn became side characters instead of having a proper story arc.
Rat Rage
Member
How did Disney fuck it up?
Wrong people in charge of the project + a lack of passion, vision, to create something truly great.
A shame, really.
Solo: A Star Wars Story is legitimately amazing, though (it's a miracle: somehow it got great writers, a great story, great actors, and a great director)
Wrong people in charge of the project + a lack of passion, vision, to create something truly great.
A shame, really.
Solo: A Star Wars Story is legitimately amazing, though (it's a miracle: somehow it got great writers, a great story, great actors, and a great director)