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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
- Thread starter MisterHero
- Start date
TheKaeptain
Banned
Most def will watch this a few times this week. I'm going to try and go late tonight or tomorrow.
Is that a threat?
Bring it. >8D
Honestly? Nothing personal, but I hope this makes a billion so none of those things you list happen.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Its been known for months that the flying is violent in this movie not truly graceful.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I would like to know the following people's opinions of Man of Steel:
Jerry Seinfeld
Nicolas Cage
Kevin Smith
Jerry Seinfeld
Nicolas Cage
Kevin Smith
Saw it today. Thought it was so-so.
The Good:
+ Cavill: it's not a powerhouse performance or anything, but he's got the charm and charisma to make you believe he's Superman.
+ Clark/Lois dynamic: I liked how this relationship played out, it's neat new angle on it.
+ Faora is a boss
+ Some of the action is terrific, particularly
+ Great score
+ The ending sequence is beautiful, I really loved it
The Not Good:
- Snyder still can't direct actors, so performances are pretty flat all across the board
- Zod was a wasted opportunity. Shannon should, theoretically, nail it but the cartoonish writing and lack of direction leaves him nothing to do but chew scenery occasionally
- The script is *completely* undercooked, none of the characters or plot points were developed nearly as well as they should have been. The worst offender is Clark, who has zero character, zero reason to care about his journey, and zero motivation for being Superman. The only reason it happens at all is because
. That's pathetic. There's no conflict or choice involved to getting there, he just flips a switch.
- Pacing is way too quick, coupled with a weak script, you have a movie that's rushing through its story without at any point establishing why it's important or worth watching
- Tone. Way too fucking dour. People shit on Nolan's Batman or Craig's Bond for being too serious, but those movies still have a solid amount of levity. This has none. And being that overly self-serious without any moment to breathe just comes off as ridiculous in the long run
- Some of the action is pointless. Mostly in the
, with a bunch of fake explosions and people we don't know being put in contrived situations for no reason.
- No stakes. This is kind of a combination of other complaints, but basically, underdeveloped characters + meaningless action scenes = who gives a fuck. There's no tension, not because it's Superman and he'll save the day no matter what, but because there's no reason to care about any of these guys -- some of whom were barely given names.
- The resolution to Supes vs. Zod.
- Doesn't feel like a Superman movie at all. This is very much an alien invasion/first contact story, but as a Superman adaptation, it doesn't have all that much to do with the character. Snyder, Cavill, et al. have talked up in the press how Superman isn't like Batman or other heroes, and that Supes is an unwavering embodiment of all that's good and right and just in the world. But that doesn't come across at all here. This has nothing to do with Donner/Reeve, I have absolutely no attachment to those movies (I don't even like them) or that interpretation, but there's a certain ultimate-force-for-good quality that Superman is supposed to have that this movie didn't capture.
Those are more complaints than I meant to type out. :lol All in all, I'm not THAT disappointed with it; I thought it was just fine. But there was a lot of wasted opportunities and I'm not all that optimistic about there being improvements in a sequel because I think a lot of these flaws are just ingrained in Snyder and Goyer's creative DNA. Snyder has made, what, a half dozen movies by now? All very heavy on the visuals, but weak on narrative. He didn't turn it around here, so I don't think it's likely he ever will.
For all the issues I had with it, it ended on a really REALLY good note, and I've had the theme stuck in my head for the past hour. So in spite of all the bad, it certainly did something right along the way.
The Good:
+ Cavill: it's not a powerhouse performance or anything, but he's got the charm and charisma to make you believe he's Superman.
+ Clark/Lois dynamic: I liked how this relationship played out, it's neat new angle on it.
+ Faora is a boss
+ Some of the action is terrific, particularly
the Smallville fight
+ The ending sequence is beautiful, I really loved it
The Not Good:
- Snyder still can't direct actors, so performances are pretty flat all across the board
- Zod was a wasted opportunity. Shannon should, theoretically, nail it but the cartoonish writing and lack of direction leaves him nothing to do but chew scenery occasionally
- The script is *completely* undercooked, none of the characters or plot points were developed nearly as well as they should have been. The worst offender is Clark, who has zero character, zero reason to care about his journey, and zero motivation for being Superman. The only reason it happens at all is because
Jor-El tells him to
- Pacing is way too quick, coupled with a weak script, you have a movie that's rushing through its story without at any point establishing why it's important or worth watching
- Tone. Way too fucking dour. People shit on Nolan's Batman or Craig's Bond for being too serious, but those movies still have a solid amount of levity. This has none. And being that overly self-serious without any moment to breathe just comes off as ridiculous in the long run
- Some of the action is pointless. Mostly in the
Metropolis fight
- No stakes. This is kind of a combination of other complaints, but basically, underdeveloped characters + meaningless action scenes = who gives a fuck. There's no tension, not because it's Superman and he'll save the day no matter what, but because there's no reason to care about any of these guys -- some of whom were barely given names.
- The resolution to Supes vs. Zod.
I have no problem with the idea of Superman killing a bad guy. It's not something he would normally do, so when it does happen, it can be a pretty powerful moment given the right context. Here, it was absolutely pointless. Nothing in the movie was building up to Clark having to make a choice of killing someone to save others, I don't think anything in the movie even addressed his mentality on killing or not killing. Even worse is that there was no fallout to the decision. He angsts for all of 5 seconds, then cut to: he's smiling and hanging out with his mom. If Superman has to kill someone, there should be some serious weight to that decision. There was none here.
- Doesn't feel like a Superman movie at all. This is very much an alien invasion/first contact story, but as a Superman adaptation, it doesn't have all that much to do with the character. Snyder, Cavill, et al. have talked up in the press how Superman isn't like Batman or other heroes, and that Supes is an unwavering embodiment of all that's good and right and just in the world. But that doesn't come across at all here. This has nothing to do with Donner/Reeve, I have absolutely no attachment to those movies (I don't even like them) or that interpretation, but there's a certain ultimate-force-for-good quality that Superman is supposed to have that this movie didn't capture.
Those are more complaints than I meant to type out. :lol All in all, I'm not THAT disappointed with it; I thought it was just fine. But there was a lot of wasted opportunities and I'm not all that optimistic about there being improvements in a sequel because I think a lot of these flaws are just ingrained in Snyder and Goyer's creative DNA. Snyder has made, what, a half dozen movies by now? All very heavy on the visuals, but weak on narrative. He didn't turn it around here, so I don't think it's likely he ever will.
For all the issues I had with it, it ended on a really REALLY good note, and I've had the theme stuck in my head for the past hour. So in spite of all the bad, it certainly did something right along the way.
What about Ja Rule? What does he have to say about all of this?
Meus Renaissance
Member
Expertly delivered. This point in particular resonated with me because it is, word for word, exactly what I said to my brother after seeing it. Not that there is anything wrong with it: personally I enjoyed the new take on this story, but it wasn't worked well at all.
Why does Superman seemingly cry at having
killed Zod when he effectively rejects saving the unborn Kryptonians because "too bad, Krypton had its chance" line? Killing one is bad, but leaving the rest pretty much extinct is meh?
What did you think of Watchmen or Superman Returns?
I come back, only to be reminded that GAF does not like fun films.
Do people even enjoy films any more. Fuck. I have a feeling some of you guys wouldn't even like Die Hard, the original, if it was released today.
Anyway, if you like to just go watch a film with friends and watch Kryptonians go at it on the giant screen then you'll be satisfied. If you want a Donner film, perhaps Superman Returns will satisfy you.
Do people even enjoy films any more. Fuck. I have a feeling some of you guys wouldn't even like Die Hard, the original, if it was released today.
Anyway, if you like to just go watch a film with friends and watch Kryptonians go at it on the giant screen then you'll be satisfied. If you want a Donner film, perhaps Superman Returns will satisfy you.
Hated everything about Watchmen, thought Returns was pretty but soulless and had that one good action sequence.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Updated my post. I actually liked the first contact approach, but it seemed to overtake any sense of conflict Clark may have had in importance. In the end, Kal-El gives no fucks about Krypton or its people, even though not seemingly attached to humans
(his conversation about a lack of trust of humans with the priest).
Adjust your expectations accordingly then. :lol
evil solrac v3.0
Member
because it hit him that he's the last of his kind. I think he still thought he could just stop him instead of having to kill him. his hand was forced and he hated it.
Oh, I know. I've said from day one that he was announced that Zack Snyder being chosen to direct was going to be a HUGE hurdle for the movie to overcome for me.
Damn. I loved Watchmen.
Meus Renaissance
Member
He didn't need to be the last of his kind. In fact, I cant recall him ever pleading or trying to convince Zod that they could share the Earth - this despite Jor-El hoping Kal to be a "bridge between our two people". They just seemed to have been punching one another.
Unless of course I completely missed that scene
Even without the slow-mo, it's still very much a Zack Snyder movie through and through. All of his typical strengths and weakness are still full on display here.
Umm am I the only one that
felt nothing during his dad's death. I'm pretty sure 100% of people in the same situation would've saved him. Maybe if there were no chance for Clark to step in it would've been emotional. The way it played out it felt silly and more like a suicide. Why shed a year for that? His mom would've been devastated.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Ironically if snyder had directed superman birthright frame by frame like he did watchmen, it would have been panned universally
Ah okay then. DotD was fun, and I'm with you on Sucker Punch.
I'm still gonna miss that slow-mo.
That's another the thing the story was trying to do but never really earned.
There's no dilemma with Clark having selfish, shitty people and having to weigh or not they're worth saving. He saves people throughout the movie, then doles out the "maybe people actually do suck," then immediately switches back to being selfless.
I thought the
"Krypton had it's chance!" line
Hey guys:
That is simply not true. The whole movie builds on the birth of Superman as an entity, of course he's an alien and has some first contact part to it it's about him the whole time. You see how he's a little immature (gotta love that cavill acting) but in the end, the way he talks shows how he changed, he's not the same guy who came in contact with the army before, he feels now as a force, capable of great and terrible things, and Cavill sells you on that. He really grows. People here were expecting a freudian psychianalysis or something, to put it simply, you wanted the movie to be in a genre it just couldn't be done.
This supes is far far far more developed than the Reeves' one, I can see how people are now getting mad about this.
This supes is far far far more developed than the Reeves' one, I can see how people are now getting mad about this.
the_painted_bird
Member
Genuinely like this movie, I did not.
Meus Renaissance
Member
But Krypton didn't do anything inherently wrong. Ironically, the story of it exhausted its resources through overpopulation and expansion seemed like a nod at humanity's current path. Jor-El specifically says in that very same monologue that the two people are not disimilar and hopefully with Superman's support, humanity will make different choices. So it didn't make any sense to me as to why he would damn them to extinction, especially when he thought he was all alone
evil solrac v3.0
Member
no time to reason when someone is trying to cave in your head. by that point he knew was beyond reason
having his only chance at a reborn Krypton destroyed
also my interpretation of Jor-El's plan was
for kal-El to have lots of sexy time with earth ladies and have lots of Kryptonian children, my interpretation. feel free to disagree
yeah you are.
He didn't know how they would react. I thought that was pretty clear seeing it was driven into him since he was found by the Kents.
I can understand it,
they dug their own grave. It's not like some natural disaster that just happened to them, Krypton engineered their own destruction.
Damn you, making me thing about changing my avatar.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Just saw it. Thought it was great. It was paced a bit unevenly, but by the time Superman was fighting, felt good man. Script definitely could have been better, but I'll forgive it for having better action than any other comic book movie thus far. A better script for the sequel and same level action and it would easily be my ideal comic book movie. The way aerial combat, super speed, and super strength are incorporated into the action felt miles ahead of anything else I've seen so far.
I do worry that with the scope of the climatic battle that they'll have issues escalating it for any sequels.
I do worry that with the scope of the climatic battle that they'll have issues escalating it for any sequels.
Regarding the whole argument between Clarke's human and krypton heritage...if anything I felt that Clarke in this movie was kind of removed from both, not human enough for humanity, and not kryptonian enough for krypton, and his whole life was spent trying to find the balance in both.
For me, thats the core of Clarke's character in this film, and its why I think more time should have been spent with during his travels prior to finding the Kryptonian ship in the arctic. Spend more time exploring his identity crisis.
For me, thats the core of Clarke's character in this film, and its why I think more time should have been spent with during his travels prior to finding the Kryptonian ship in the arctic. Spend more time exploring his identity crisis.
There was no immediate compromise though, what was he supposed to do?
I doubt you cried at that scene.
Meus Renaissance
Member
The Krypton scenes are fantastic by the way. By far the highlight of the movie for me. And Zod was in fact the hero in this film for me
Just got out and I loved every fucking second holy shit the most epic movie ever. Made avengers and avatar seem small. I will gather my thoughts later, but.......goddamn I'm ready to see it again!
The place was packed and there were so many lines in the theater as we were leaving. This movie is huge!
The place was packed and there were so many lines in the theater as we were leaving. This movie is huge!
Quite the claim!
Meus Renaissance
Member
People applauded in the theatre showing I was in once the film ended. I've never seen that happen before. So, meh, what do I know eh
evil solrac v3.0
Member
a tiny tear welled up, only because it reminded of my father who died recently.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
The Krypton scenes are fantastic by the way. By far the highlight of the movie for me. And Zod was in fact the hero in this film for me
I really feel they could make a whole movie or TV series just based on that alone.