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[Widdle Puppy]

Haha, yes I remember when this trailer came out and everyone low key thought it was going to be the next dark knight.

Man was I disappointed.

 

[Glass Rebel]

The movie is awesome if you ask me. It's a poignant story of self-discovery all while asking questions of purpose and dealing with xenophobia. It's a smart script and I generally consider it one of the best origin stories. It would probably be the best if Batman Begins didn't exist.

I'll never understand the hate it gets. Sure, the movie is a little sloppy in some respects and sometimes may overreach (such as the kiss on the wrecked battleground) but overall it's a fantastic effort that mostly hits in the areas it wants to. The action is stellar and it succeeds at providing a Superman that's both relatable and heroic.

The script is dumb as hell. How exactly is it a story of self-discovery when Clark's behaviour throughout the movie does not change in any way whatsoever? As a kid he uses his power to save people and as an adult he uses his power to save people. We don't know why he wants to use his power to help people; it's just assumed that he's good because that's who Superman is supposed to be. We also don't know why he shouldn't use his powers; it's just something Pa Kent repeats ad infinitum and when he finally uses his powers there's no repercussions to it whatsoever.

The only thing that changes is that he isn't conflicted about it anymore (something that the movie doesn't even properly convey) because his dumbass father isn't there to tell him not to use his powers for good. Which is really the most ridiculous aspect of the entire movie. There's this entire setup of fabricated drama around Pa Kent being against Clark using his powers, resulting in him dying in the dumbest way possible to achieve what exactly? Pa Kent dies because Clark didn't do what he wanted to do from the very beginning. So what's the lesson learned here? That Superman can't save people from their own stupidity? And don't even get me started on the second half of the movie.

 

[The Maverick]

Best trailer of all time. I like the movie but it's very flawed. Stands above everything else DC has done in almost a decade though, which isn't saying much.

 

[Ninjimbo]

The script is dumb as hell. How exactly is it a story of self-discovery when Clark's behaviour throughout the movie does not change in any way whatsoever? As a kid he uses his power to save people and as an adult he uses his power to save people. We don't know why he wants to use his power to help people; it's just assumed that he's good because that's who Superman is supposed to be. We also don't know why he shouldn't use his powers; it's just something Pa Kent repeats ad infinitum and when he finally uses his powers there's no repercussions to it whatsoever.

The only thing that changes is that he isn't conflicted about it anymore (something that the movie doesn't even properly convey) because his dumbass father isn't there to tell him not to use his powers for good. Which is really the most ridiculous aspect of the entire movie. There's this entire setup of fabricated drama around Pa Kent being against Clark using his powers, resulting in him dying in the dumbest way possible to achieve what exactly? Pa Kent dies because Clark didn't do what he wanted to do from the very beginning. So what's the lesson learned here? That Superman can't save people from their own stupidity? And don't even get me started on the second half of the movie.

It is a story of self-discovery when you have a character searching for his origins and getting 10 minutes of exposition dedicated to it. To be honest, I don't understand why going from conflicted to not being conflicted doesn't count as a change. Clark is a simple guy. He's a good natured person with abilities beyond imagination and he wants to help. He's conflicted about because his dad (correctly) assumes the world isn't ready for the existence of a Superman. Part of growing up is emerging from your parents shadow, making and sticking to decisions that you make yourself. Just the simple fact that he goes from being a scared little kid afraid of his powers to a man who saves the world with those powers should be considered a moment of tremendous personal growth.

And the story has consequences for his use of power. When he saves the kids from the bus, you have a concerned mom talking about it being providence which sets the seeds for his deification in BvS. After the destruction, the US government is sending drones to try and find him. I mean, Jonathan wasn't wrong about protecting his kid from that kind of scrutiny. MoS and BvS show that.

 

[Astral Dog]

Proof that trailers don't represent the final product sometimes,a basic lesson of life

 

[Imperial Bishop]

The 300, Watchmen, and Sucker Punch trailers looked good too.

The writing was on the wall.

 

[Dysun]

Its a dumb movie with the best comic book fight scenes of all time
I liked it

 

[riotous]

I enjoyed MoS a lot; GAF has an obsession with talking about these films.

 

[Fat4all]

Man of Steel was dreck

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

I really enjoyed the film

 

[Glass Rebel]

It is a story of self-discovery when you have a character searching for his origins and getting 10 minutes of exposition dedicated to it. To be honest, I don't understand why going from conflicted to not being conflicted doesn't count as a change. Clark is a simple guy. He's a good natured person with abilities beyond imagination and he wants to help. He's conflicted about because his dad (correctly) assumes the world isn't ready for the existence of a Superman. Part of growing up is emerging from your parents shadow, making and sticking to decisions that you make yourself. Just the simple fact that he goes from being a scared little kid afraid of his powers to a man who saves the world with those powers should be considered a moment of tremendous personal growth.

I already mentioned that that his "being conflicted" has no effect on his actions. He constantly tells people how conflicted it and then proceeds to do the stuff anyway without looking conflicted at all. How does him finding his origin form his character? Great, now he has this cool alien suit and learned to fly but that has no bearing on his character because he's still doing the same fucking thing.

And the story has consequences for his use of power. When he saves the kids from the bus, you have a concerned mom talking about it being providence which sets the seeds for his deification in BvS. After the destruction, the US government is sending drones to try and find him. I mean, Jonathan wasn't wrong about protecting his kid from that kind of scrutiny. MoS and BvS show that.

What are the consequences in MoS? The drones pose no actual threat to him and he was hiding before. What exactly has changed?

 

[Fancyarcher]

The trailer made the film look so peaceful too, like we were watching a long shot of nature or something. The actual film is much more noisier & chaotic, but not without its strong-points of course.

Can we talk about how horrible pa Kent is for a moment; tells son to let kids die, supports son hiding who he is, gives the worst advice and kill a couple of horses putting the Lang farm out of business forcing the langs on the street all so he could have hero cake!

Say what you will about the Jonathan Kent dumb sacrifice scene, but if anything it gave us a great gif, and I'm thankful to it for that.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I already mentioned that that his "being conflicted" has no effect on his actions. He constantly tells people how conflicted it and then proceeds to do the stuff anyway without looking conflicted at all. How does him finding his origin form his character? Great, now he has this cool alien suit and learned to fly but that has no bearing on his character because he's still doing the same fucking thing.



What are the consequences in MoS? The drones pose no actual threat to him and he was hiding before. What exactly has changed?

But it does have an effect on his actions. Its something he mulls over when Zod calls him out. You think he does all those things he does at the end if he doesn't have the talk with Jor-El? I see that flight scene as him finally coming to terms with who he is which unlocks his potential. He can't be who he was destined to be while hiding.

And the consequences manifest themselves fully in BvS. People all over the globe start having an existential crisis. If you want to see it in MoS, the first thing the government does when they find Clark is arrest him and treat him as a threat. I've always thought Jon had a point and never faulted him for hiding his son.

 

[forrest]

While the movie didn't quite give us what the trailer gave us as potential, it was still really enjoyable. My only real issue was the pacing.

 

[Wag]

Editing.

 

[Zantetsuken]

Been awhile since we had a MoS complaint thread. But I enjoyed the trailers and the movie.

 

[Lokimaru]

Can we talk about how horrible pa Kent is for a moment; tells son to let kids die, supports son hiding who he is, gives the worst advice and kill a couple of horses putting the Lang farm out of business forcing the langs on the street all so he could have hero cake!

Lets forget for a moment this is Superman and just think of him as just an Alien Kid raised by human parents. Or hell think of him as a mutant. Would any parent want their kid to be exposed as different in this world at that age? Hell no. This world is full of Dicks who'd try to Kidnap, Kill or Exploit him for personal gain. They weren't making a traditional Superhero movie but a First Contact/Alien Invasion movie were the Aliens just happens to be from Krypton.

 

[BashNasty]

I loved Man of Steel. I can't believe so many people hate it.

Amazing action scenes.

 

[shingi70]

I like it a lot, it's in my top three cape films. I don't like how Snyder handled Pa kents death. It really should have been the classic heart attack.

 

[Bleepey]

But it does have an effect on his actions. Its something he mulls over when Zod calls him out. You think he does all those things he does at the end if he doesn't have the talk with Jor-El? I see that flight scene as him finally coming to terms with who he is which unlocks his potential. He can't be who he was destined to be while hiding.

And the consequences manifest themselves fully in BvS. People all over the globe start having an existential crisis. If you want to see it in MoS, the first thing the government does when they find Clark is arrest him and treat him as a threat. I've always thought Jon had a point and never faulted him for hiding his son.

I already mentioned that that his "being conflicted" has no effect on his actions. He constantly tells people how conflicted it and then proceeds to do the stuff anyway without looking conflicted at all. How does him finding his origin form his character? Great, now he has this cool alien suit and learned to fly but that has no bearing on his character because he's still doing the same fucking thing.

Did you actually watch the film? Not being a prick here but you argue "Superman never looked conflicted" When off the top of my head. The bus scene had him having a range of emotions ranging from, "I really wanna knock this dude the fuck out" to, "fuck it everyone needs help" to my personal favourite "What the fuck have i done"

Oh and literally right after this bus scene it's him Pete Ross's mum saying he's God's gift and then after that there is the infamous maybe scene!

OH and let's not forget the scene where the bullies want to pick a fight with Superman and he decides not to fight whilst him and his father have a much better discussion about his role in the world than not playing football

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2F1Fllstno

Or how about when he chats to the priest?

https://youtu.be/4teJPCcJSQ0?t=113

Are you gonna say he doesn't feel and look conflicted.

Or the bar scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaYYATbeuDQ&t=2s

What are the consequences in MoS? The drones pose no actual threat to him and he was hiding before. What exactly has changed?

I could just say watch BVS, however when he first turns himself into the army, what's the first thing the army do, put him in cuffs. Gee I wonder why Jonathan Kent's cynicism in Superman 78 and MOS was warranted.

Edit: I don't get the complaint about the tornando scene and I think people miss the point of it. In 1978, Superman learnt that that he can't do everything and there are some people he can't save. This is despite the fact he in the sequel shot at the same time he will be able to reverse time! In MOS, the lesson for Clark was that his father was a man of conviction. The man who was unsure about whether his son should have saved the kids on the bus because he was trying to protect his son being turned into a lab rat, was willing to die for his convictions to protect his son's abilities being known

 

[Lokimaru]

Bit of a difference between that and "I tried to save the dog, but let me die Clark." The old "he died of a heart attack" thing works because to show Clark he can't save everyone, but he'll try anyway.

Tornado scene is so fucked up.

But 70's Clark out ran a Train he could have easily picked Pa up a ran him to the nearest hospital, hell I don't even get why Pa died of a heart attack in the first place being an active farmer who got plenty of exercise tending his land. Seems kinda contrived to me like Pa's heart attack on Smallville.

 

[jett]

Ah, the magic of editing.

Those trailers sold a movie that didn't exist.

 

[Philippo]

Man that first teaser is still incredible to me.
That part with kid Clark playing with the cape? Gave me the chills.

 

[Discotheque]

I'm amazed at how outraged people get over the Kent stuff in here

It is a bit of a cynical worldview for his dad to have. But no less reasonable. They're being protective, they know he'd get experimented on by the government and harassed by public opinion as soon as he gets out. Don't put a kid (or a fucking old ass looking teen clark lol) through that. Plus it's pretty obvious they were still grooming him to be a good person at the end of the day.

None of that was a problem for me. Goyers shit script is what really holds it down.

It's not awful though, but it ain't good. It's basically in a spot where a lot of this genre has placed itself in lately (with the exception of a couple fox movies, a few mcu ones, BvS). Mediocrity.

 

[MHWilliams]

I enjoy Man of Steel. I has some definite storytelling missteps and issue, but I liked it.

And it contains the sole time where I feel Snyder really "got" Superman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5pRYuI3etc

 

[PanSexual_Peacock]

I actually really liked how Jonathan Kent was portrayed. Most parents wouldn't encourage their alien child to expose themselves to the world knowing what would be in store for them.

 

[NotoriousPUG]

Man of Steel was a great movie, just like the trailers.

 

[Glass Rebel]

But it does have an effect on his actions. Its something he mulls over when Zod calls him out. You think he does all those things he does at the end if he doesn't have the talk with Jor-El? I see that flight scene as him finally coming to terms with who he is which unlocks his potential. He can't be who he was destined to be while hiding.

And the consequences manifest themselves fully in BvS. People all over the globe start having an existential crisis. If you want to see it in MoS, the first thing the government does when they find Clark is arrest him and treat him as a threat. I've always thought Jon had a point and never faulted him for hiding his son.

You're confusing the increase of scale with actual change. He unlocks his full potential because the story asks for it, not because he actually overcomes a flaw that holds him back. Because the only thing that held him back was his father and he died the death of a stupid man. Clark is still helping people, just on a bigger scale and wearing blue spandex. Clark is still hiding just on a bigger scale and wearing blue spandex. What are the actual consequences of Clark hesitating? Is there a moment where there are actual repercussions to Clark hesitating? Does anyone get hurt because of his hesitation? And Clark isn't "destined" to be anyone or anything. That's the entire point of his existence and why Jor-El and Lara conceived him naturally in the first place: To give him a choice. And no doubt he was given a choice multiple times and every single time he made the same choice: To help people. Except that one time where his idiot of a father wouldn't let him.

As for the second paragraph, let's just focus on MoS here: When Clark finally shows himself to the world it turns out Pa Kent's fears were completely unfounded. The military doesn't arrest him, he turns himself in and then makes it abundantly clear that 1) they can't touch him and 2) they can't even find him with a $12m surveillance satellite. And then, after basically leveling an entire city he just goes to work at a newspaper and nobody recognizes him behind those glasses. In short, the last few minutes render the all the scenes featuring Clark and Jonathan fighting over this Superman shit completely pointless. His father died for nothing and like the dog (where did that dog even come from?) he tried to save.

So to conclude, there's two big moments in the movie that we are supposed to buy as big character forming moments: Pa Kent's death and Clark's discovery of the ship and his talk with Jor-El. Clark's conversations with his two fathers all feature these big philosophical concepts of free will and whatever but neither of them tie into the story or Clark's development. After Jonathan dies, how does Clark change? He grows a beard and leaves his home. But he's still helping people. After he finds the ship and talks to Jor-El, how does Clark change? He wears a blue suit, can fly and isn't mopey about it anymore. But he's still helping people. Funnily, he is mopey about it in BvS again.

Man of Steel is the perfect example to show what people mean when they say that Zack Snyder doesn't know how to tell a story. He has all these moments that are framed perfectly and aesthetically pleasing and emotionally evoking but he has no idea how to tie them together. It's just a list of elements that he has to check and a sequence of scenes that follow a progression which defies all rules of storytelling and characterization. I could go more in-depth on his nonsensical use of flashback or the role of Lois but I already put too much energy into talking about this piece of shit movie.

Did you actually watch the film? Not being a prick here but you argue "Superman never looked conflicted" When off the top of my head. The bus scene had him having a range of emotions ranging from, "I really wanna knock this dude the fuck out" to, "fuck it everyone needs help" to my personal favourite "What the fuck have i done"

I rewatched it yesterday actually so my memory of it is very fresh. See these scenes perfectly show what I've been saying all along. Him being conflicted has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of it. Every time he is presented with the choice to use his powers for good, he chooses to help people. Every time he has the opportunity to use his powers for his own gain, he doesn't. There's no room for growth because he doesn't make any mistakes. Nothing bad that happens is a direct consequence of him hestiating to help people or abusing his powers. Compare that to the excellent death of Uncle Ben in Raimi's Spider-Man. Raimi understood that if you want the audience to feel the weight of the character's actions (or their inaction), you have to show them. Snyder wants us to believe that some terrible shit will happen to Clark or the people around him without actually doing any of the legwork.

 

[Bleepey]

You're confusing the increase of scale with actual change. He unlocks his full potential because the story asks for it, not because he actually overcomes a flaw that holds him back. Because the only thing that held him back was his father and he died the death of a stupid man. Clark is still helping people, just on a bigger scale and wearing blue spandex. Clark is still hiding just on a bigger scale and wearing blue spandex. What are the actual consequences of Clark hesitating? Is there a moment where there are actual repercussions to Clark hesitating? Does anyone get hurt because of his hesitation? And Clark isn't "destined" to be anyone or anything. That's the entire point of his existence and why Jor-El and Lara conceived him naturally in the first place: To give him a choice. And no doubt he was given a choice multiple times and every single time he made the same choice: To help people. Except that one time where his idiot of a father wouldn't let him.

As for the second paragraph, let's just focus on MoS here: When Clark finally shows himself to the world it turns out Pa Kent's fears were completely unfounded. The military doesn't arrest him, he turns himself in and then makes it abundantly clear that 1) they can't touch him and 2) they can't even find him with a $12m surveillance satellite. And then, after basically leveling an entire city he just goes to work at a newspaper and nobody recognizes him behind those glasses. In short, the last few minutes render the all the scenes featuring Clark and Jonathan fighting over this Superman shit completely pointless. His father died for nothing and like the dog (where did that dog even come from?) he tried to save.

So to conclude, there's two big moments in the movie that we are supposed to buy as big character forming moments: Pa Kent's death and Clark's discovery of the ship and his talk with Jor-El. Clark's conversations with his two fathers all feature these big philosophical concepts of free will and whatever but neither of them tie into the story or Clark's development. After Jonathan dies, how does Clark change? He grows a beard and leaves his home. But he's still helping people. After he finds the ship and talks to Jor-El, how does Clark change? He wears a blue suit, can fly and isn't mopey about it anymore. But he's still helping people. Funnily, he is mopey about it in BvS again.

Man of Steel is the perfect example to show what people mean when they say that Zack Snyder doesn't know how to tell a story. He has all these moments that are framed perfectly and aesthetically pleasing and emotionally evoking but he has no idea how to tie them together. It's just a list of elements that he has to check and a sequence of scenes that follow a progression which defies all rules of storytelling and characterization. I could go more in-depth on his nonsensical use of flashback or the role of Lois but I already put too much energy into talking about this piece of shit movie.



I rewatched it yesterday actually so my memory of it is very fresh. See these scenes perfectly show what I've been saying all along. Him being conflicted has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of it. Every time he is presented with the choice to use his powers for good, he chooses to help people. Every time he has the opportunity to use his powers for his own gain, he doesn't. There's no room for growth because he doesn't make any mistakes. Nothing bad that happens is a direct consequence of him hestiating to help people or abusing his powers. Compare that to the excellent death of Uncle Ben in Raimi's Spider-Man. Raimi understood that if you want the audience to feel the weight of the character's actions (or their inaction), you have to show them. Snyder wants us to believe that some terrible shit will happen to Clark or the people around him without actually doing any of the legwork.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6DQwQyVGOc

Look at the Superman saving Martha scene. Zodd threatens his mother, he loses his shit, and people probably died when he reached the petrol station. Him losing his shit has consequences and people may have died in the above scene.

edit: I don't know about you, but my idea of being welcomed with open arms isn't having turreted machine guns and tanks pointed at you, being hadcuffed, being accused of carrying space disease and to top it off being fed to the wolves or Zod in this case

edit 2: I forgot in the interrogation scene he revealed he had x-ray vision. I thought this was a plothole in BVS regarding how Lex knew but like a lot of BVS you have to remember little bits in MOS. #ZaddyWasRight

 

[Glass Rebel]

What does that have anything to do with what I said? Am I supposed to empathize with a petrol station and people that supposedly died off-screen?

 

[Morgoth]

Movie was better than thor 2 the dark world. There i said it.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

man of steel is the most talked about movie on internet forums since citizen kane

until bvs at least.

1. bvs
2. man of steel
3. citizen kane

 

[Morgoth]

man of steel is the most talked about movie on internet forums since citizen kane

until bvs at least.

1. bvs
2. man of steel
3. citizen kane

DC
must be doing something right then.

 

[Cooter]

Love or hate this movie it says something that it is being talked about so frequently 6 years after release.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Love or hate this movie it says something that it is being talked about so frequently 6 years after release.

Yeah, it says that Snyder took a beloved popular icon and made a shit movie about him.

 

[Cooter]

Yeah, it says that Snyder took a beloved popular icon and made a shit movie about him.

Yeah, because people enjoy talking about universally hated movies for years after release. I mean, look at all the Amazing Spiderman 2 threads that constantly pop up.

 

[Bleepey]

Yeah, because people enjoy talking about universally hated movies for years after release. I mean, look at all the Amazing Spiderman 2 threads that constantly pop up.

lol

 

[Glass Rebel]

Yeah, because people enjoy talking about universally hated movies for years after release. I mean, look at all the Amazing Spiderman 2 threads that constantly pop up.

Is Watts still directing and producing comic book movies? Did Amazing Spider-Man 2 serve as starting point for a cinematic universe, dictating the trajectory of it? Man of Steel and its director are, sadly, still relevant so of course they're being discussed.

 

[Cooter]

Is Watts still directing and producing comic book movies? Did Amazing Spider-Man 2 serve as starting point for a cinematic universe, dictating the trajectory of it? Man of Steel and its director are, sadly, still relevant so of course they're being discussed.

Oh, people are only talking about MoS because it was directed by Snyder and started DCEU? Good to know. Most discussion I see is about the actual movie but what do I know?

 

[Glass Rebel]

Don't be dense. "People are talking about it so they must be doing something right" isn't an argument in favour of the movie.

 

[Cooter]

Don't be dense.

Could it be that it's a deeply divided movie with people who love and hate it willing to to defend their deeply passionate opinions?

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Don't be dense. "People are talking about it so they must be doing something right" isn't an argument in favour of the movie.

Youre the one calling the movie unequivocally shit and telling others to not be dense

 

[Glass Rebel]

Youre the one calling the movie unequivocally shit and telling others to not be dense

I was merely contesting the idea that the continued discussion of Man of Steel is a sign of its quality. People bring up the Star Wars prequels all the time because Star Wars is relevant right now.

I already presented my opinion on why I think that Man of Steel is a terrible movie. It's obvious that my posts represent my opinion because it was me who wrote them. If it helps you, imagine an "imo" at the end of all of my posts.

 

[Zantetsuken]

How many dissertations and dissections do we need of MoS and other DC movies? People get really long winded to discuss what they don't like.

 

[Dead]

It's one of the few morally justifiable comic book films.

 

[Bleepey]

I was merely contesting the idea that the continued discussion of Man of Steel is a sign of its quality. People bring up the Star Wars prequels all the time because Star Wars is relevant right now.

I already presented my opinion on why I think that Man of Steel is a terrible movie. It's obvious that my posts represent my opinion because it was me who wrote them. If it helps you, imagine an "imo" at the end of all of my posts.

The prequels don't have many defenders, they are universally shat on. Add Schumacher Batman movies to that list too

 

[lastplayed]

Ha, I forgot the teaser had that LOTR track.

 

[geomon]

Never understood the hate this movie gets. Every time I watch it, I enjoy it more.

 

[¡HarlequinPanic!]

Really like this film.

The last five or so minutes really captures a lot of what these trailers had in them as well. This was probably the last film I saw where I was genuinely curious to see the sequel to, it seemed like it wrote itself: metropolis is destroyed and LexCorp is gonna foot the bill and turn people against superman and throughout the story you see Superman become the seasoned and heroic ideal that he is known as.


Somehow batman and mommys got tied up in that, a pity.

 

[Vilix]

It ranks right up with the likes of Dark City and Sucker Punch. I wouldn't say the movie itself ranks at the bottom with Dark City and Sucker Punch. But pretty darn close imo.