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[mdkirby]

I found manual saving, which leads to save scumming to be absolutely paralysing when playing BG3, my own idiosyncrasies compelled me to constantly reload for every dice roll. It took me forever to get anywhere as I was constantly curating every step I took according to most desired outcome.

 

[bbeach123]

Depend on the type of the game I guess.

I meant I wouldnt even touch bethesda game without quicksave.

 

[justiceiro]

Oh yes, I loved on XCOM that once you lost a mission, was basically a dragged out game over that you had to play for like 2 another hours, without way to recover.

Luckily, that game had manual saves.

 

[Toots]

Anyone who played fps during the 90s/early 2000s knows that save scumming was the only way to beat certain games if you didn't possess superhuman reflexes. If anyone agrees with this steaming hot take try finishing even Half Life without save scumming see how you fare.

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

I think Elder Scrolls does it best. A plethora of autosaves along with the ability to save scum.

 

[Esca]

And that’s why it’s a coming experience how in just a few weeks the story becomes a mumbo-jumbo in your head instead of one coherent exciting piece that was YOUR adventure and not Dr Strange’s multiverse bullshit.

Just watch the other outcomes on Youtube later man.

Some of us have an attention span and memory longer than that of a bird. Not hard to remember the path you choose and experience the other options

TikTok rot is so sad to see.

 

[Aenima]

What the game you're playing ? Sounds like something I'd like

Road 96, its in the style of Life is Strange type of games.

 

[deriks]

I can see some games having auto save as a rule, like Zelda, Tony Hawk's or basically any other sports game... but Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, and many others turned manual save into a game mechanic, and it was damn great

 

[Clear]

Well, it's just a thought experiment.

Sawyer is not saying save-anywhere in games should be abolished; that cat is well of the bag. (And the cat has made some lives better by being out and changing fates.) But as a designer, as somebody who thinks about why and how people play games, he's considering the downsides and wishing things could have gone differently.

You can't really make that argument (how things would've gone different) in isolation. Without the arcades, so many bedrock principles wouldn't have been enshrined in gaming at an early stage, only to have been somewhat revised out over the following decades.

The entire concept of a "save state" did not exist in the arcades. It was "git gud or pay to continue". So save games started out largely as a workaround for that, and gradually gained in value as games got longer and more narrative bound.

The concept of auto-saving came after it became possible to reliably save data to persistent storage repeatedly, and initially often only saving a limited amount of data because of efficiency issues and the cost of non-volatile storage.

Historically its a complex issue, with technology being a major component so I'd reject the idea of it being a "mistake" on-its-face because in hindsight it never was avoidable.

 

[Zacfoldor]

I saved scummed to beat Hades on Nintendo Switch and never played it again.

Bwahahahahah!!!!! /runs

 

[pudel]

Disagree. If you grew up with pc games "saving at any given time" was (and is) basically the standard. I know its a bit different with consoles and that was always something annoying for me when playing ported games for example. I mean just let the people play like they want. No one cares if you are cheating in an SP game, no one cares if you are modding your game to your likes....so why would you care if someone wants to save his game in an instant. You dont win anything...but very likely pissing off some folks. Easy decision imho.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Manual save states were around before you were designing games, Josh.

 

[atyourservice]

Mostly agree. Specifically, I would say they should have been massively nerfed before people got used to them. On the other hand, it's genre specific

Disagree. If you grew up with pc games "saving at any given time" was (and is) basically the standard. I know its a bit different with consoles and that was always something annoying for me when playing ported games for example. I mean just let the people play like they want. No one cares if you are cheating in an SP game, no one cares if you are modding your game to your likes....so why would you care if someone wants to save his game in an instant. You dont win anything...but very likely pissing off some folks. Easy decision imho.

Imagine playing through Elden ring and being able to manually save at any point like you can with Skyrim.

Think about how many systems would be nullified. All the effort the designers put into place to make sure you get a certain experience would be completely wasted.
For example, entering a teleporting trap and getting sent to Caelid early on, unable to teleport out and being forced to suffer through an area way higher than your level was a unique cool experience.

If we could manually save, everyone would just reload to before they opened the chest and then the experience the designers want is completely lost.

Sure, it's your play time and you're free to do what you want with it, but I believe you disregard a lot of the design intent of games that way.
I coincidentally stopped using them myself like 2 years ago, because I realized it kinda made me engage with the game less -> get frustrated more when I can't save scum and have to use systems I never fully learned -> put game down and don't finish it.

Still use them now and again for certain genres like city sims, but not for anything with a narrative.

 

[fart town usa]

Nah. Moat games aren't designed to be THAT dynamic so save scum as you see fit. I'm currently playing Into the Radius for VR and it's touted as a brutal game, and it is at its core but you can save scum so it's whatever. I basically use it as a checkpoint before each mission so if I die, I don't have to spend time finding my corpse and getting my loot. I'm busy and have a giant backlog, I have to be efficient with my gaming sessions.

 

[pudel]

Imagine playing through Elden ring and being able to manually save at any point like you can with Skyrim.

I would be fine with that.

 

[atyourservice]

I would be fine with that.

Huh.

We're looking for different experiences from games then.

I feel like adding manual saves would make for an objectively worse elden ring experience in every way.
This whole thing is subjective though, so my opinion doesn't really matter any more or less than yours.

So, meh

 

[Halo is Back]

Taking away more player choice is a smart move. What could go wrong? Every gamer knows that autosave is a perfect system with no flaws.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Anyone who played fps during the 90s/early 2000s knows that save scumming was the only way to beat certain games if you didn't possess superhuman reflexes. If anyone agrees with this steaming hot take try finishing even Half Life without save scumming see how you fare.

"look a piece of armor"
*3 billion monsters spawn behind you*

Thank you Romero

 

[gtabro]

Some of us have an attention span and memory longer than that of a bird. Not hard to remember the path you choose and experience the other options

TikTok rot is so sad to see.

You like TikTok? Because I’m not on it and you can’t assume shit about people for an argument. Also the mix-up of stories has been happening long before tiktok or reels and the likes. I too have a good memory, but the impact is lessened when you save scum every outcome, at least for most regular people.

 

[Toots]

"look a piece of armor"
*3 billion monsters spawn behind you*

Thank you Romero

Remember the time when "impossibly hard" was actually a selling point

 

[jufonuk]

 

[Guilty_AI]

Remember the time when "impossibly hard" was actually a selling point

tbf to them, they'd often receive complaints by players that their hard mode was too easy (thus creating nightmare difficulty)

 

[Yoboman]

Design your game without it then wtf is the problem

 

[GMAK2442]

It needed to be upgraded. It was the good old day but the today tech is most likely much better. Also, it was a mistake for the Egyptian.

 

[AJUMP23]

let me do what I want with my game. Save where I want and have as many save files as I want.

 

[Toots]

tbf to them, they'd often receive complaints by players that their hard mode was too easy (thus creating nightmare difficulty)

I didn't even know that but whatever the reason, it's a good selling point. Players don't need to be lead by the hand, overcoming difficulty (often through cheesy tactics in my case) is one of the best feeling gaming can give you. From software knows this well by the way, and they are arguably the best around...