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[hououinkyouma00]

It's a "mistake" for those that want it to be a mistake. There have been plenty of devs (albeit indie and adjacent for the most part) that have said it was a good thing for them, that it helped them, etc.

If anything was/is a mistake it's a lot of game development practices these days as a whole IMO. Or rather, some questionable choices Microsoft/Xbox has made. Especially with all the layoffs as they continue to pocket more money.

I legit think from a business/consumer perspective it was a very smart move. Especially for consumers. Maybe it was their "Hail Mary", who knows? But there are people that clearly use Game Pass and enjoy it, and some who don't.


Right, but you can also say that if it wasn't sustainable, they would've gotten rid of it a long time ago rather than leaning harder into it.

I think the reality is that until we can get some actual evidence and physical numbers, there's nothing telling us if it truly IS a "failure." The things happening at Microsoft that people are associating with Game Pass could just be Microsoft/Xbox making poor decisions. Or shit, maybe it IS Game Pass, but the thing is is no one knows for sure. Unless we're actually told and shown otherwise from a reputable source the same song and dance is going to happen over and over again.

The problem is more that with all of their decisions they HAD to go balls deep on Game Pass because it is the only thing they have. They killed their console sales, and went on a spending spree for over $80 billion buying studios. Studios that they then needed to put onto Game Pass meaning that Game Pass cost them even more to maintain and therefore needing to rely/push Game Pass more.

The more studios they buy the more expensive Game Pass is to maintain and that's not even touching third party games some of which cost them a lot of money to get on the service.

From a consumer standpoint I get why people like it.

 

[adamsapple]

Gamepass was a mistake

.... wait for a sale.

For all those to be under $30 combined is gonna be one hell of a wait

 

[Jimmy_liv]

I know what we haven't had for a while.... Let's have a good ole Xbox is dead thread....

 

[Physiognomonics]

For sustainability probably not the best, but for the consumer it has been great. I have played more games than ever with GP. It has been worth it for me.

they are chain canceling games right now. it has not been great for consumers. and people are leaving the sinking ship.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Devs are going bankrupt without being on GP… And way before GP exits.

To add to this (without today's 3 cancelled games) :

The Last of Us Online	December 14, 2023	Naughty Dog
Project Odyssey	January 25, 2024	Blizzard Entertainment
Unannounced Deus Ex game	January 29, 2024	Eidos-Montréal
Battlefield Mobile	January 31, 2024	Industrial Toys
Untitled live service game	February 27, 2024	London Studio
Untitled Star Wars FPS game	February 28, 2024	Respawn Entertainment
Tom Clancy's The Division Heartland	May 15, 2024	Red Storm Entertainment
Project Payback	August 2, 2024	Bungie
Untitled live service game	January 16, 2025	Bend Studio
Unannounced God of War live service game	January 16, 2025	Bluepoint Games
Wonder Woman video game	February 25, 2025	Monolith Productions
Untitled Titanfall extraction shooter	April 29, 2025	Respawn Entertainment
Untitled video game	April 29, 2025	Respawn Entertainment

​

If anything, some publishers are more efficient at trimming projects that are going in the wrong direction than Microsoft letting peoples burn money for 7 years with nothing to show for it.

I think from now on if you don't deliver at microsoft xbox division, you're out. Laura Fryers called it. I don't think they always expect hitters, otherwise why in the world would Microsoft buy Doublefine, InXile, Obsidian whom have been scrapping the bottom of the barrel on kickstarters just to get a project going, but they deliver. Team Ninja of all the studios I thought would be in danger has so far no rumors of layoffs. Probably because microsoft feels they delivered on what they set out to do. I think the dead-end projects with no vision or development hell are done for.

 

[AJUMP23]

they are chain canceling games right now. it has not been great for consumers. and people are leaving the sinking ship.

Games have been canceled before. Sony just canceled a ton of games, they have no GP. Game development and shipping good games is difficult.

 

[Elios83]

The idea behind Gamepass was that giving people "free" games was just an unbeatable value proposition, that Microsoft was the only company able to absorb the initial huge investements/losses required to do so for a few years but that they would end up with at least 100m subscribers, become the Netflix of gaming and at that point the business would become sustainable with no possibility for competitors to threaten their newly formed leadership.

The business plan was based on a fatal mistake because it was elaborated by people who don't get and don't play games but just looked at trends and what was happening with movies.
The mistake was assuming that games can be consumed like TV series, songs or YouTube/Tik Tok videos.
It's not like that, with online and multiplayer stuff people can continue to play a single game for months and huge gaas titles can attract people for years.
At that point the utility of Gamepass vanishes and what's left is devaluing games and teaching their traditional fanbase to not pay for the games they used to pay for.
The whole initiative remained flat at their traditional users that stopped being a big revenues source.

It completely backfired, now either they lose face and backtrack or there will be continuous rounds of price increases until the service isn't attractive anymore for people who are exploiting it and it dies by itself.

 

[LordOcidax]

Some gamers: Games are expensive AF.
Microsoft: Here's an option to play games for cheap is called GP.
Some gamers: GP is renting.
Microsoft: You can buy the game at full price if you want.
Some gamers: Lol, Xbox is going bankrupt.
Microsoft: Don't worry about that, we are a 3B dollar company, just enjoy the games. We are going to be fine.
Some gamers: No, i don't want options. GP is evil.

I don't get that mentality…

 

[Imtjnotu]

As a game rental service it's amazing

But making everything an Xbox was the real mistake.

 

[Danjin44]

From I can understand it give those players bad habit of not buying games and if a game is not on game pass they skip it entirely.

 

[PlayStaytion]

So what was Sony downfall …..psn or chasing money with multi player games

3rd party games at their peak period, nothing else stands a chance. MS is winning when they make gamers switch to PC. Their worst nightmare actually is another PS2 'and guess what ? everyone except MS wants another PS2.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If gamepass was the issue, it would be getting cancelled or getting a price hike.

MS isn't going to fire 9k ppl if gamepass was the issue.

 

[adamsapple]

Some gamers: Games are expensive AF.
Microsoft: Here's an option to play games for cheap is called GP.
Some gamers: GP is renting.
Microsoft: You can buy the game at full price if you want.
Some gamers: Lol, Xbox is going bankrupt.
Microsoft: Don't worry about that, we are a 3B dollar company, just enjoy the games. We are going to be fine.
Some gamers: No, i don't want options. GP is evil.

I don't get that mentality…

My favorite are the posts which go "uMmM akTuAlLyYyy iT's rEnTiNgGgGg", like .. yes geppetto, we all know what a subscription service is. The option to buy those things at a discount is always there.

 

[SilentSpecter]

.... wait for a sale.

I don't see a reason to wait when I can play on day one at a significantly lower cost. Even during major sales, Game Pass still ends up being much more affordable - plus, it's more convenient to try games without committing to a full purchase, which also reduces the risk of buying something you might not enjoy.

 

[Sooner]

As strange as it sounds, it was the Activision Blizzard aquisition being approved that killed Xbox.

It simultaneously made Microsoft the biggest publisher and the Xbox inconsequential as it could no longer justify keeping their first-party exclusives to the Xbox platform.

It was the ultimate monkey-paw wish for Xbox fans.

 

[majestix1988]

this is the true problem of xbox they never solve

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

OP is right. They could've played their cards much better than what we got. Don't think management is willing to cut their losses and get back to a strategy that's working. They're still doubling down on this bullshit.

 

[LordOcidax]

My favorite are the posts which go "uMmM akTuAlLyYyy iT's rEnTiNgGgGg", like .. yes geppetto, we all know what a subscription service is. The option to buy those things at a discount is always there.

Also, devs have the option to skip GP on Xbox…

 

[playbignbox]

.... wait for a sale.

So ignore the biggest advantage of the service, which is the day one games? Really if you do that there is no difference at all from waiting for a sale.

 

[Bond007]

Huge mistake
The day i could sign up for $1 and play what i wanted and cancel. The times i signed up for a Day 1 release, only to cancel 30days later after beating.

Its dumb. Good for me, dumb for them. On top of the fact that really all of their first party stuff was mostly mid to begin with. You attract people with First party- not give it away in multiple facets. Be it ownership or putting on other consoles.

Additionally, a netflix model for games? I can binge shows and movies/ release cadence is faster aswell. Gaming doesnt work like that.
Most of us saw this early on. Only way its survived this long is because Microsoft has always powerleveled the Xbox brand. A brand dying to get us into their ecosystem- desperately.

 

[Dane]

Renting games.

Guess gamefly is killing the industry

 

[Physiognomonics]

Games have been canceled before. Sony just canceled a ton of games, they have no GP. Game development and shipping good games is difficult.

Sony's strategy is no better. and they also have their own gp, just called differently.

 

[LordOcidax]

Huge mistake
The day i could sign up for $1 and play what i wanted and cancel. The times i signed up for a Day 1 release, only to cancel 30days later after beating.

Its dumb. Good for me, dumb for them. On top of the fact that really all of their first party stuff was mostly mid to begin with. You attract people with First party- not give it away in multiple facets. Be it ownership or putting on other consoles.

Additionally, a netflix model for games? I can binge shows and movies/ release cadence is faster aswell. Gaming doesnt work like that.
Most of us saw this early on. Only way its survived this long is because Microsoft has always powerleveled the Xbox brand. A brand dying to get us into their ecosystem- desperately.

Thats all you should care about.

 

[lastmessiah]

this will be a fun thread to bump in a couple years, assuming it isn't deleted.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Guess gamefly is killing the industry

Places like GameFly and used physical are what spurns these platform holders to push digital so much.

 

[rofif]

of course it was. I was always saying this. Same with shitty sub on ps.

It devalues games, gets people used to free/cheap stuff and it's model does not support big expensive games.
Meanwhile exclusives have to be impressive to sell consoles.

 

[Crayon]

It destroyed xbox for $1 a year. That's an INSANE VALUE.

 

[Judge Magister]

this is the true problem of xbox they never solve

Explain the PS5 sales then.

 

[ReasonBeing]

It is absolutely "sustainable" as long as they keep their investments in line with revenue. The model itself does not determine its sustainability, the management of the model does.

Edit: point being is if they maintain 30 million customers at an average spend rate of $15 monthly, they receive $450,000,000 in recurring monthly revenue. If they can keep their monthly spending in line with this revenue, it is sustainable. This spend rate is just an example of a possibility, and I'm not claiming that I "know" they are averaging $15 per subscriber.

 

[SJRB]

Sunk cost fallacy.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Gamepass isn't a bad idea per se, but for MS itself they would be better off if they didn't go with the day ones. Forza Horizon, CoD etc are better off for MS being sold at retail. Sony's Plus is similar but yet isn't. Sony doesn't put anything from their 1p on there day one. They did put Horizon 2 on there relatively fast and saw it didn't do much good for them so they discontinued this.

The real problem for MS as said before, is the aqcuisition. Those IP largely bank on MTX, decade long multiplatform legacy with player bases to match and were way too big for MS to carry exclusively. This pretty much forced them to keep these multiplatform anyway. At the same time they were obliged to put those on GP day one from now on. Without day one GP games it would still be a valuable service for the sheer amount of content thats on there.

The only reason I am subbed to PS Plus is online play. But they know the bulk of gamers share this thought, which is why they still hide online play behind this paywall as well.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I know what we haven't had for a while.... Let's have a good ole Xbox is dead thread....

This is the weekly one. Won't be the last, either.

 

[hinch7]

Anyone with an inkling of common sense could see that this isn't going to work from a business POV.

The Netflix subscription-like service just doesn't work when it comes to games.

 

[analog_future]

Anyone with an inkling of common sense could see that this isn't going to work from a business POV.

The Netflix model just doesn't work when it comes to games.

I mean we're seeing more and more that the Netflix model also doesn't work for movies/TV. Studios are hemorrhaging money left and right and are dramatically cutting down on their streaming content production budgets.

 

[MikeM]

MS wants reoccuring revenue a la Azure, Office, etc. Problem is, they seem to have forecasted neither revenue nor expenses properly.

Wonder if they will spinoff Xbox…

 

[adamsapple]

Places like GameFly and used physical are what spurns these platform holders to push digital so much.

Renting and reselling has been synonymous with physical games media since even before the Blockbuster days tho, without that a lot of people wouldn't be enjoying this hobby in the first place.

 

[MacReady13]

*in the entire industry

to be honest

I don't think gamepass has anything to do with it.

Bullshit. Plenty of games today are doing fantastic work (Silent Hill 2, Death Stranding 2, Kingdon Come Deliverance 2 etc...). Gamepass is a complete negative for the industry. Sooner people realize it the better. It has ruined Xbox as a brand and the focus shift from consoles to a fucking subscription service is pathetic. Fuck lying Phil and his merry band of dumb fucks.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Renting and reselling has been synonymous with physical games media since even before the Blockbuster days tho, without that a lot of people wouldn't be enjoying this hobby in the first place.

No shit. Before the internets and all digital stream models as well.

Not knocking it, we all rented as young poor boys and girls. But it's one of the main reasons they want to cut out the middle men.

 

[Tajaz2426]

Subscription services as a whole are a mistake. Not just in gaming, but as a whole. You have them everywhere trying to nickel and dime you.

From TV apps, I know of Netflix, Hulu, and Prime, as my wife constantly tries to talk me into getting a sub for some TV shows she likes, but I've never had them and never will, but I also do not have cable. She lost her fucking face if she thought I was going to become some companies' bitch to line their pockets monthly.

They even have them for your own damn vehicles. My wife's has everything from her entertainment stuff in her Yukon that you can pay a fee for. My partial electric jeep wrangler thing won't even show my charging without a subscription to unlock and start the damn thing.

I've never gotten a subscription to anything, but there seems to be an infinite number of companies out there looking to suck you dry and then some.

 

[hinch7]

I mean we're seeing more and more that the Netflix model also doesn't work for movies/TV. Studios are hemorrhaging money left and right and are dramatically cutting down on their streaming content production budgets.

True but that's also a lot to do with the oversaturation of subscription services (VoD, music, retail etc) and a lot of people are burnt out and limit their services monthly. Plus quality of content matters for these types of services.

Making quality games for a subscription model will be indefinably harder to do than streaming, and the audience to these will be limited; as you won't find the average user to consume games like they do videos.

 

[Punished Miku]

Some gamers: Games are expensive AF.
Microsoft: Here's an option to play games for cheap is called GP.
Some gamers: GP is renting.
Microsoft: You can buy the game at full price if you want.
Some gamers: Lol, Xbox is going bankrupt.
Microsoft: Don't worry about that, we are a 3B dollar company, just enjoy the games. We are going to be fine.
Some gamers: No, i don't want options. GP is evil.

I don't get that mentality…

Because its not on PlayStation. If it is all of that vanishes immediately. Its just bullshit. Look at any PS+ thread for all the comments about ruining the industry. You won't find it. Even when they do a day 1 game.

 

[adamsapple]

Bullshit. Plenty of games today are doing fantastic work (Silent Hill 2, Death Stranding 2, Kingdon Come Deliverance 2 etc...). Gamepass is a complete negative for the industry. Sooner people realize it the better. It has ruined Xbox as a brand and the focus shift from consoles to a fucking subscription service is pathetic. Fuck lying Phil and his merry band of dumb fucks.

No shit. Before the internets and all digital stream models as well.

Not knocking it, we all rented as young poor boys and girls. But it's one of the main reasons they want to cut out the middle men.

I picked up a 12 month gamefly code for $100 and have already played $700 or so worth of games on it and it's only been 4 months.

I'm part of the problem but as a consumer it's been amazing for me.

 

[GHG]

Paying less for games bad.

Get what you pay for.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I picked up a 12 month gamefly code for $100 and have already played $700 or so worth of games on it and it's only been 4 months.

I'm part of the problem but as a consumer it's been amazing for me.

We know.

 

[ScorpionX]

This and the fact they release xbox exclusive games on both the console and pc day 1 gives no reason to buy an xbox console. What a way to devalue your own brand.

 

[AmuroChan]

GP wasn't a mistake. Day 1 releases of their tentpole first party games onto GP was the mistake. That's why they had to pivot and lock the day 1 releases to the highest tier of GP as well as releasing their games on other platforms to recoup some of the costs.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I mean we're seeing more and more that the Netflix model also doesn't work for movies/TV. Studios are hemorrhaging money left and right and are dramatically cutting down on their streaming content production budgets.

It think it works for smaller scale arcade games and indies. Those are mostly smaller experiences you can beat within a few hours.

The problem in the movie landscape is that every single studio has its streaming service. They all try to get a piece. I try to keep my budget below 20 bucks a month. So I run HBO, Amazon and Apple TV+ for a combined fee of 20, and Sky which is free with my provider. They dictate whats on there, and delete as they see fit. I wouldn't say it helps with the quality indeed. I do know Foundation S3 is going to have a heavily neutered budget for example.

 

[majestix1988]

Explain the PS5 sales then.

explain why xbox users begging for helldivers 2 to be released on their console?

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

The service itself is not a mistake. The CRITICAL HIT!! for the industry is requiring MS to BUY all the content they want to put on the service.
They did that (and are still in the process of doing that) and now they have the largest content library in the known universe.
MS doesn't need studios or people to make money on that content...so they are shedding all people.

Enjoy gamepass...in all reality it would probably take your lifetime to burn through all the content on there so you don't need NEW content.

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

Ofc, and it is stupid to think otherwise:

When you sold a game your business is to make a good product (the game, in case someone for some reason missed this), but when you have a service your business it to keep people on the platform, and put as much consumption stuff as possible. When you are on a business like this, you now need to think about scale and how to cut stuff, I wont be surprised if all of the next MS games and the so call 40 "active titles" have most of the work labor made by other studios. They already started with the crappy hiring practices that damaged Forza and Infinite. Moving development to other companies is just the final move, specially when you pair this with everything going to the standard of UE5.