Gamepass was a mistake
- Thread starter Gonzito
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SamuraiEdge
Member
Going to abuse and enjoy Gamepass on PC while I can.
ToadMan
Member
I'm not gonna say GP was a mistake as a concept. Subs are fine in their place.
The mistake was MS implementation of it. Day one first party didn't work and continues not to work.
They're basically using gamepass subs to make third party games now.
But those games don't sell because as soon as I see it's on GP, I put it on the play later pile. I won't buy unless it's a deep sale.
Otherwise it waits for me to get round to subbing to GP for a short period - and that day never comes because my backlog of games I already own is huge and then I buy other stuff if it looks interesting.
Indy is the most recent example of that - a game that if it wasn't on GP I'd have bought. But on GP, I'm.innyhe frame of mind to wait until I sub and play it then. Except now I've got a Switch 2.which has restocked my Switch backlog fire, PS5 games and other PC stuff. So Indy is gone from my radar.
Effectively, GP games are the never buy set of games for me, even though MS are going out of their way to put them in my path.
They should forget the price hikes to GP, and just say, no more first party day one. They haven't been shy about bad news anyway, so why not go nuclear?
In fact, given the shit they're in, I'd even remove a selected set of the existing major 1st party games that are already on there.
Certainly everything that isn't Multiplayer/ mtx supported - pull it. I'm fairly sure their EULA allows it. Maybe offer a 50% purchase discount for a month and then they're gone to return to service for limited periods at a time and date on case by case basis as MS sees fit. Basically the way the successful sub services work.
Yeah it'll annoy the current shills, but it will put MS into a position where they can make a proper sustainable third party development company.
Right now, they're spending Sony money to get Ubisoft results.
The mistake was MS implementation of it. Day one first party didn't work and continues not to work.
They're basically using gamepass subs to make third party games now.
But those games don't sell because as soon as I see it's on GP, I put it on the play later pile. I won't buy unless it's a deep sale.
Otherwise it waits for me to get round to subbing to GP for a short period - and that day never comes because my backlog of games I already own is huge and then I buy other stuff if it looks interesting.
Indy is the most recent example of that - a game that if it wasn't on GP I'd have bought. But on GP, I'm.innyhe frame of mind to wait until I sub and play it then. Except now I've got a Switch 2.which has restocked my Switch backlog fire, PS5 games and other PC stuff. So Indy is gone from my radar.
Effectively, GP games are the never buy set of games for me, even though MS are going out of their way to put them in my path.
They should forget the price hikes to GP, and just say, no more first party day one. They haven't been shy about bad news anyway, so why not go nuclear?
In fact, given the shit they're in, I'd even remove a selected set of the existing major 1st party games that are already on there.
Certainly everything that isn't Multiplayer/ mtx supported - pull it. I'm fairly sure their EULA allows it. Maybe offer a 50% purchase discount for a month and then they're gone to return to service for limited periods at a time and date on case by case basis as MS sees fit. Basically the way the successful sub services work.
Yeah it'll annoy the current shills, but it will put MS into a position where they can make a proper sustainable third party development company.
Right now, they're spending Sony money to get Ubisoft results.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Sony's downfall?
Their console is selling record numbers and Playstation made more profit than all the previous gens combined.
I don't think you're living in reality.
coolmast3r
Member
> "Gamepass is such an amazing deal for me as a consumer, I love it. Play hundreds of games for dirt cheap? Sign me tf up!!!"
> Same person some time later: "Why have Xbox games become so bad lately?.."
> Same person some time later: "Why have Xbox games become so bad lately?.."
Embearded
Member
Rubim
Member
The issue with that is that you're assuming Microsoft incompetence is due to gamepass.
I dont think gamepass is the culprit on the bad games that they are developing.
Did you forgot that Clair Obscure was on gamepass?
coolmast3r
Member
I swear some people can't see one step ahead of them
Shockwave_Fox
Member
Day one was a huge mistake, will never understand why they did that.
coolmast3r
Member
Gamespass as an Xbox's entire business strategy vs one successful game as an exception. Come back when there are several "Claire Obscures" (as in successful and highly rated games) getting released each year on gamepass.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
people would pick which games to pay 80 dollars, and thus bad games go away and good games stay around for sequels. Making a buffet means all games are treated equally and thus games stay mediocre. Market Forces exist for a reason. Use them.
Embearded
Member
You are missing the point.
Clair Obscur was developed and published by an unrelated studio and publisher. They are also making a ton of money out of PS5 and PC sales.
Microsoft is paying for the development of their own games and then they offer them day 1 on gamepass.
Development costs have risen and if they want to be competitive with the quality of Sony's games they will have to throw serious money on them.
They do not earn that money back with GP and they do not make enough sales because of GP, so they reconsider their games, do budget cuts which lower the quality and quantity of their games, that leads to less console sales because of the lack of exclusives and the cycle repeats.
Unknown Soldier
Member
What would stop you from just leaving a game running and paused 24/7?
Rubim
Member
Now you got it.
The issue is not gamepass, is the developer.
Sintoid
Member
If you want to distort your data how many accounts do you have to create and games you have to pause just to reach the required numbers? And how many tools can add Microsoft to avoid this kind of tricks?
JimmyRustler
Member
They had to do it to accumulate the user-base, they had no other choice. Gamepass would look different if they'd be in Sony's position and not behind.
It think subs in general (wheter movies, games or music) were a mistake for the companies. But they were unavoidable mostly due to piracy. It was either this or nothing.
How much did it sell on Xbox compared to PS?
Embearded
Member
It's a combination.
Gamepass as it is today is not a viable solution. It devalues games by maintaining a "i dont have to pay for it" mentality with the fan base.
Microsoft leadership is to blame here, not even the developers. There is nothing one could show me that would convince me MS has incompetent developers.
Their leadership has been destroying the brand over the past 12 years, starting with the Kinect and the 100$ more expensive than it should Xbox One.
Rubim
Member
What sales have to do with what we're discussing?
The main point of discussion was the reason Microsoft Games are bad, is because Gamepass exists.
I wish that was the case.
Did Hi-Fi Rush failed because the game was bad or just that it was unappealing?
Do you think Starfield failed because it was on game pass?
Do you think Avowed failed because it was on game pass?
Those are games that even without it, would not make a difference.
Gamepass not being a viable solution has nothing to do with the claim that: Gamepass made Xbox starting make bad games.
I'm not interested in that kind of argument, im interested in the notion that Microsoft would do amazing games if Gamepass never existed.
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Embearded
Member
Current leadership can't do shit.
Microsoft as a company has been much better in the past.
Rubim
Member
True, but that doesn't really answer the question:
"Is Game Pass one of the reasons why Microsoft games have declined in quality?"
I don't think Starfield or Doom would've turned out any differently with or without Game Pass.
But if you're referring specifically to Halo and Gears, those were failling off BEFORE gamepass even existed. With some titles being a hit or miss.
Dalbajobas
Member
I love GP as consumer, but day 1 big first party was not the best idea profit wise most likely. Should have brought them at least a year later and your subs would have been probably the same. However how do you walk back now, that would be a nail in xbox.
Most likely expectation was high number of new subs in few years, but the increase was not as high as anticipated. Sub models can absolutely work, but for something that takes years to produce and can cost 100+ million your subs evidently had to be higher than currently xbox GP has. Sadly that's probably the simple reality.
Most likely expectation was high number of new subs in few years, but the increase was not as high as anticipated. Sub models can absolutely work, but for something that takes years to produce and can cost 100+ million your subs evidently had to be higher than currently xbox GP has. Sadly that's probably the simple reality.
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Rivdoric
Member
Gamepass is, like all subscriptions, based around the theory that people will in the end spend more with that than with the purchase of games.
You'd pay 18€ X12 for ultimate which is 216 € per year which is higher than what most people would dip in 12 months by purchasing individual titles.
This is my humble opinion ofc, I never subscribed and don't plan to.
You'd pay 18€ X12 for ultimate which is 216 € per year which is higher than what most people would dip in 12 months by purchasing individual titles.
This is my humble opinion ofc, I never subscribed and don't plan to.
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Embearded
Member
Microsoft first party games started declining almost 10 years ago in my opinion.
Maybe also the constant repeat of Halo, Gears and Forza didn't help, i am not sure.
There was a point, around 2016, they had to choose their next move, how to turn things around. Instead of investing in their studios and fund new projects, they decided to go with GamePass.
Sony gave us good first party games, Nintendo brought Switch and MS tried to compete with GP and the promise of growth that never came.
GamePass is one of the reasons their games are declining in quality, because they will not earn their investment back. Subscrisotions alone cannot do it.
manfestival
Member
yes
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
I never tried and finished so many games before.
Best thing MS did this gen besides series S. Besides, most games MS released after Indy were good.
Also, is the only honest way to sell digital goods. We keep seeing digital games "sold" to you being takedown from stores and even libraries sometimes. Digital games are never yours, is just a rent where you don't know when they will take the game back.
Best thing MS did this gen besides series S. Besides, most games MS released after Indy were good.
Also, is the only honest way to sell digital goods. We keep seeing digital games "sold" to you being takedown from stores and even libraries sometimes. Digital games are never yours, is just a rent where you don't know when they will take the game back.
DaleinCalgary
Member
Subscriptions work for services that do not cost as much as game development and paying off acquisitions.
It can never pay off the debts.
It can never pay off the debts.
Rubim
Member
Nobody said anything about that game being successful because of GP.
The game was a success because you need some Woo to have some Wee. That way you can Weewooweewoo.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Good for Xbox gamers. Bad for PS5 owners.
Horseganador
Member
It was never going to work and be profitable, many of us said it years ago and we were called trolls and that we had no idea, now with Xbox in the middle of dismantling it's easy to say it was a mistake.
Rubim
Member
More money would not solve the issue at Microsoft.
memoryman3
Member
What is this take? We had the CFO of Xbox admit in 2023 that the company would double-down on Game Pass alongside their multiplatform push, mainly because the service is profitable!
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/m...tendo-and-every-screen-possible/1100-6519551/
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/m...tendo-and-every-screen-possible/1100-6519551/
Embearded
Member
More money invested in their IPs, old and new, and then release them traditionally and not on GP, would certainly help them.
But leadership needs to change first, they don't know games
Embearded
Member
And tou believed them?
Did you also believe them when they said they wouldn't release more than 3 games on PS5?
onnextflix5
Member
I think pressure on profit margins has led to this, where the market can only sustain 2 consoles going forward, and Xbox had no chance with its poor selection of games. They really should have got a Xbox handheld out before the steam deck came out but as always they are late to the party.
Rubim
Member
Does not matter if they released the game "traditionally". If the games are bad, they will still be bad regardless of how the content is delivered.
The issue is not quantity at moment, is quality.
Microsoft created a studio with veterans and still failed, the issue is irrelevant to money if they dont know how to manage people.
Sandfall: Founded in 2020. Made a brilliant game that's probably a GOTY.
The Initiative: Founded in 2018. Made a gameplay video that we dont even know its true.
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Embearded
Member
You need more than veterans though. Even a veteran needs proper direction, a clear picture of what they are doing.
Sandfall created a game they wanted too, it was a passion project.
The Initiative had to pick something from Microsofts bin to work on.
They need to throw money at their studios, give them time and the freedom to make what they want and not what they tell them too.
Rubim
Member
"You need more than veterans though"
I trough my point was specifically not THAT.
My point was: if they dont know how to manage people.
"They need to throw money at their studios, give them time and the freedom to make what they want and not what they tell them too."
Right, its why Hi-Fi Rush, a passion project, was a huge success right? Or Avowed?
Maybe with enough money and passion they can make Concord.
No, talent and vision are not something all of them have, and sometimes you do need to direct the boat. You know what freedom made it to Arkane? Redfall.
Report: Arkane Hoped Microsoft Would Cancel Or Reboot ‘Redfall’
Redfall is the worst-reviewed major release of 2023, and a black eye on Microsoft’s first party ambitions, a truly terrible game from a studio previously a producer of...
www.forbes.com
They were hoping that Microsoft would step in.
Let me repeat that again, more money would not, make any product at MICROSOFT better.
They dont know how to do them, they don't have the people at management that understands that.
I highly suggest you watch:
Laura Fryer
Welcome to my channel, where I talk about games, technology, production, and entertainment with a few lessons learned thrown in that may help you on your journey.
www.youtube.com
To understand a bit of how the management at Microsoft is clueless.
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Embearded
Member
"You need more than veterans though"
I trough my point was specifically not THAT.
My point was: if they dont know how to manage people.
"They need to throw money at their studios, give them time and the freedom to make what they want and not what they tell them too."
Right, its why Hi-Fi Rush, a passion project, was a huge success right? Or Avowed?
Let me repeat that again, more money would not, make any product at MICROSOFT better.
They dont know how to do them, they don't have the people at management that understands that.
I highly suggest you watch:
Laura Fryer
Welcome to my channel, where I talk about games, technology, production, and entertainment with a few lessons learned thrown in that may help you on your journey.
To understand a bit of how the management at Microsoft is clueless.
That's why i said not with current leadership. Phil and the gang needs to go first.
Rubim
Member
Dont know if its Phil.
He does not have the last say on anything.
Its only X games was something he did not have control over it. Someone told him that it was only those games, then that changed later. I dont think he's the one making any big calls related to the business.
Sinfulgore
Member
I agree. People are blaming Gamepass because it's an easy target, but we all know games have been getting increasingly worst for decades now, years before Gamepass existed. Bad developers and bad leadership lead to bad games and the industry is full of that right now.
Griffon
Member
This would lead to every game to try their absolute darndest to waste as much of your time as possible. Not just with a high amount of cheap repetitive content, but also through tricks like slow menus and unskipables intros/transition for everything. I bet some devs would go as far as making loadings longer on purpose.
It would drive me fucking nuts. You can treat games the same way as music.
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Laptop1991
Member
Good for gamepass users, they get a lot of games much cheaper than buying them, but the games being released so far match that price and the need to make us pay more with top quality is no longer there, so not so good for anyone that doesn't use GP.