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[Mibu no ookami]

Here's what I think most people are missing:

- Visuals will come together over the next 5 months. People seem to be praising the interiors and criticizing the exteriors. That gap will close by release. It'll be one of the best looking PvP games on the market come September.

I don't see visuals "coming together" because the art direction itself is divisive. Another layer of paint over this isn't going to "fix" it. I strongly believe that a Borderlands 11th hour change is necessary or this game is going to be DOA for reasons I'll get to later.

- The game REALLY rides on allure of the 4th map. If it's a compelling carrot, it'll make the grinding on maps 1 - 3 significantly more fun. Right now, a lot of people don't care about the loot because there's no compelling end goal in the alpha.

You're just parroting what you've heard people say. I think people don't care about the loot because the game play loop isn't currently exciting. They've made some design choices that have cascaded to other design choices that aren't super conducive to creating the environment they think they're creating.

- The focus on 3 player teams has some merit. The Finals (and I suppose Apex Legends) delivered transcendent experiences when you're playing with two like minded friends. The Extraction genre may increase group cohesion more than the aforementioned games. Still not sure it was the right choice because it hampers solo and duo play.

They're trying to make a mainstream and casual game, but this game isn't F2P. The amount of barriers they've placed in front of the game selling will be its undoing here.

The poor or at least divisive art direction
The already niche player base of extraction shooters
Casual gamers who don't immediately have friends that want to buy the game

Having Solo or Duo play would have at least allowed more people to jump into the game by themselves who will now avoid the game because it isn't conducive to solo or duo play.

If it was F2P it wouldn't matter as much and the games you cite are F2P. You can't have it both ways.

- The aim assist discussion is a complete waste of time. This will be settled by launch because every AA and AAA PvP game released in the last 20 years has it settled by launch. Won't impact the games market performance one iota.

Agreed here.

- PvP rates and down time are also non issues. Bungie dropped a game of Lego bricks on the ground so they can quickly alter these things if they see them as issues.

Not sure it is a non-issue if the word on the street is the game is boring.

The biggest concerns:

- 3 player team focus is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

- Shocked that objectives & enemies look so basic. They had 4+ years to come up with that?

- ARC Raiders may absorb too much attention. It's one thing to have a rough landing with little market competition. It's another thing to land rough with a real competitor right next to you.

3 player team definitely rubs people the wrong way and that they weren't getting this feedback enough or didn't act enough tells me that Bungie didn't want to hear it. They've taken a huge gamble here in a way that is absolutely going to blow up in their face.

 

[Hemingwayoffbase]

This game looks like Apex Legends if it didn't load properly.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Man MiB is really making a huge deal about this fourth map as if it's going to revolutionize the genre and keep everyone playing the game

 

[diffusionx]

Thanks for the information.

So you speak for everyone in a Discord group of 400K members.

They all joined and signed up to get the Alpha because why not?

They really don't want to play the game though.

Yes, I do speak for all of them.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Man MiB is really making a huge deal about this fourth map as if it's going to revolutionize the genre and keep everyone playing the game

Who knows what will happen with the 4th map, but rumour has it is an all-indoors map on a spaceship or something. And it acts as a Raid map, so high leveled players buddy up, go room to room and find the boss. At least that's what rumours say. Not sure if this 4th maps acts as dual function as both extraction and Raid possibilities. Or if it's just for Raids.

Not all gamers even want to play indoors with corridors, stairs, doors etc... In shooters, I hate maps which have tons of running around in buildings. I like outdoors maps, or outdoors ones with some buildings or huts here or there to give a mix of open shooting and gunplay from second floor windows.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I don't see visuals "coming together" because the art direction itself is divisive. Another layer of paint over this isn't going to "fix" it. I strongly believe that a Borderlands 11th hour change is necessary or this game is going to be DOA for reasons I'll get to later.

I think this is totally wrong.

The most popular, successful PvP games on the market look objectively worse than what Marathon will look like in September.

This is a non issue that's only being parroted by the resentful crowd. PvP gamers simply don't care how games look to nearly the degree that PvE gamers do. I suspect most of the visuals talk is from that resentful demo. They were never going to play the game anyway.

You're just parroting what you've heard people say. I think people don't care about the loot because the game play loop isn't currently exciting. They've made some design choices that have cascaded to other design choices that aren't super conducive to creating the environment they think they're creating.

Wrong again.

If you give a wrench set to someone who doesn't work on cars, they won't value it.

If you give a wrench set to a car guy, they'll value it.

The 4th map places heavy context on the loot. The alpha doesn't have that context.

I think it's more likely that you're parroting what an unsophisticated crowd says about a complex system.

Marathon is not 2 maps with no end goal. Marathon is 3 maps (quickly more) with a 4th end goal map.

They're trying to make a mainstream and casual game, but this game isn't F2P. The amount of barriers they've placed in front of the game selling will be its undoing here.

We'll see. I know not to place much (any) value into what the masses say about multi-player.

The poor or at least divisive art direction
The already niche player base of extraction shooters
Casual gamers who don't immediately have friends that want to buy the game

Your first two points have very little value imo. You're third point is a real barrier.

Having Solo or Duo play would have at least allowed more people to jump into the game by themselves who will now avoid the game because it isn't conducive to solo or duo play.

I'm sure this was discussed within Bungie. Not sure why they prioritized teamplay over solo and duo viability. My only hypothesis is that true team play genuinely provides a transcendent experience that solo play can't and balancing for multiple queues was too difficult.

If it was F2P it wouldn't matter as much and the games you cite are F2P. You can't have it both ways.

Quality is all that matters in the end. The payment model only redistributes when the company recieves money.

R.E.P.O. is 10 dollars on Steam. It became a massive success because people love to play it. Marathon just needs to be good.

Agreed here.

That's no fun.

Not sure it is a non-issue if the word on the street is the game is boring.

True, but PvP and PvE rates can be easily adjusted based on the nature of the game.

3 player team definitely rubs people the wrong way and that they weren't getting this feedback enough or didn't act enough tells me that Bungie didn't want to hear it. They've taken a huge gamble here in a way that is absolutely going to blow up in their face.

I'd love to hear from someone at Bungie why they didn't design a game from the ground up to supports solos, duos, and trios.

They did take a big gamble here. I generally like big gambles.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

The visuals in Marathon are really nice for the most part when playing. The only time it doesn't look good is when the sun is out in open environments. Everything seems oversaturated. Indoors it looks amazing

 

[Snakeeyes646]

This game looks like Apex Legends if it didn't load properly.

Couldn't say it better myself, it looks like a make it yourself game, you get the land and mountains then some colorful buildings you can drop anywhere you chose, its so terrible looking.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think this is totally wrong.

The most popular, successful PvP games on the market look objectively worse than what Marathon will look like in September.

You need to ask yourself a couple of questions and try to answer them honestly.

1. How old/established are these games you want to compare Marathon to
2. Are they F2P or premium priced

If you answer honestly, you'll affirm that these games are old and mostly if not exclusively F2P.

The standard for a game you're trying to sell for 40 dollars in 2025 without a playerbase is MUCH higher...

This is a non issue that's only being parroted by the resentful crowd. PvP gamers simply don't care how games look to nearly the degree that PvE gamers do. I suspect most of the visuals talk is from that resentful demo. They were never going to play the game anyway.

It's not just visuals. I think if the game was touched up and ran at 4K120 on base consoles people would feel "okay" about it, but all reports are that the performance isn't there. And yes, this is an alpha, but there's really no excuse to look this bad and play this bad 5 months out... You can have one or the other here...

Wrong again.

If you give a wrench set to someone who doesn't work on cars, they won't value it.

If you give a wrench set to a car guy, they'll value it.

The 4th map places heavy context on the loot. The alpha doesn't have that context.

I think it's more likely that you're parroting what an unsophisticated crowd says about a complex system.

Marathon is not 2 maps with no end goal. Marathon is 3 maps (quickly more) with a 4th end goal map.

Do you know how you should know you're parroting things about the 3rd and 4th map? Because you haven't seen it. End of story...

We'll see. I know not to place much (any) value into what the masses say about multi-player.

If they don't delay this game and significantly with massive adjustments, it's going to fail. That's just a reality at this point.

Your first two points have very little value imo. You're third point is a real barrier.

Keep telling yourself that, again my issue with you is that you jump back and forth and you based things off your emotions about it. I'd love for Bungie to keep up their track record of making hit games, but this looks like a massive failure. That they didn't turn a corner over a year ago when they delayed this game makes me wonder how bad it was before this.

I'm sure this was discussed within Bungie. Not sure why they prioritized teamplay over solo and duo viability. My only hypothesis is that true team play genuinely provides a transcendent experience that solo play can't and balancing for multiple queues was too difficult.

What I can tell you is that even if team play makes the game significantly better, let people get into the game the way they want to and let the game build out a userbase, that will eventually find team play. Instead, what you have is people just not playing it. Many games have solo and duo queues even if they have 3 man teams. As a non F2P game this should have been a must.

Quality is all that matters in the end. The payment model only redistributes when the company recieves money.

That's not ONLY what it does, it also acts as a barrier of entry. F2P, I'm sure a bunch of people would try this game who otherwise wouldn't. You as a studio have to overcome that with a premium price model. The higher the price the bigger the barrier.

R.E.P.O. is 10 dollars on Steam. It became a massive success because people love to play it. Marathon just needs to be good.

10 dollars is a significantly lower barrier than 40. That the most interested people aren't hooked on the game in the free alpha suggests you have a serious problem.

That's no fun.

Cool...

True, but PvP and PvE rates can be easily adjusted based on the nature of the game.

That's a nuance that isn't going to be captured unless word of mouth spreads. They need to do major damage control and another alpha before a pre-order exclusive beta.

I'd love to hear from someone at Bungie why they didn't design a game from the ground up to supports solos, duos, and trios.

They did take a big gamble here. I generally like big gambles.

Because they didn't see the future nor did they plan for it. People often make mistakes and they double down on those mistakes. People unwilling to say, hey, I made a mistake are often the first ones to fail.

I abhor comparisons to Concord because I think they're crude and lazy, but it's the same mentality. "I don't need to listen to my audience and I'll find an audience regardless." That's how people lose their jobs.

 

[Muddy]

Yes, I do speak for all of them.

Right.

So 400K people including you joined the Marathon Discord to signup for the Closed Alpha.

None of you want to play the Closed Alpha though.

Makes sense.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Right.

So 400K people including you joined the Marathon Discord to signup for the Closed Alpha.

None of the want to play the Closed Alpha though.

Makes sense.

Just wait for the open beta. This is a game that is way better playing with friends compared to randoms

 

[diffusionx]

Right.

So 400K people including you joined the Marathon Discord to signup for the Closed Alpha.

None of you want to play the Closed Alpha though.

Makes sense.

It takes 5-10 minutes to sign up for the alpha. It's not a big investment. It doesn't mean you are truly interested or awaiting the game.

You can't use the size of the stupid discord as evidence of some major support for this game.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

This might be a good article for some people to read:

"I think part of it is we don't expect Marathon to become Destiny 3. Our goal is not to basically make a new product that replaces Destiny 2. We believe that Destiny 2 has a future, and the team working on it has been working really hard to understand what players' needs are."

There’s A Misconception About ‘Destiny 2’ And ‘Marathon’ Development

While this week has been all about Marathon, Marathon, Marathon, little attention has been paid to its younger brother, Destiny 2.

www.forbes.com

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It takes 5-10 minutes to sign up for the alpha. It's not a big investment. It doesn't mean you are truly interested or awaiting the game.

You can't use the size of the stupid discord as evidence of some major support for this game.

I'm also in the discord and also not interested in playing the game.

That being said, this is probably what? 5% of the discord? That would leave 380K people.

That's pretty solid for a discord for a game that hasn't launched and is essentially a new IP.

Their biggest problem is that they haven't made the game that the market wants. This isn't a game that is going to sell 20 million copies. It's not even going to sell 10 million copies.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This might be a good article for some people to read:

"I think part of it is we don't expect Marathon to become Destiny 3. Our goal is not to basically make a new product that replaces Destiny 2. We believe that Destiny 2 has a future, and the team working on it has been working really hard to understand what players' needs are."

There’s A Misconception About ‘Destiny 2’ And ‘Marathon’ Development

While this week has been all about Marathon, Marathon, Marathon, little attention has been paid to its younger brother, Destiny 2.

www.forbes.com

If Bungie were smart they would reveal a roadmap to Destiny 3 to get Destiny 2 players who are currently hating on Marathon off their backs.

Even if the game comes out in 2028 or 2029 it isn't too early to start talking about it to ensure Destiny players that they haven't been forgotten about.

It's crazy how big companies have these unforced errors.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You need to ask yourself a couple of questions and try to answer them honestly.

1. How old/established are these games you want to compare Marathon to
2. Are they F2P or premium priced

If you answer honestly, you'll affirm that these games are old and mostly if not exclusively F2P.

REPO is not F2P and is far uglier.
Schedule I is not F2P and is far uglier.

Human DNA hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. We're willing to pay for entertainment.

I find this argument to be amusing. We see people paid for Overwatch, Sea of Thieves, Rust, Hunt Showdown but no more. Why no more?

The standard for a game you're trying to sell for 40 dollars in 2025 without a playerbase is MUCH higher...

Right, but we won't know where Marathon falls until we see the full loop. Progression is a core pillar of this genre and Bungie is hiding it during the alpha.

It's not just visuals. I think if the game was touched up and ran at 4K120 on base consoles people would feel "okay" about it, but all reports are that the performance isn't there.

Genuinely preposterous statement. PvP players don't care about 120fps. That's fringe PC streamer nonsense that doesn't seep into the console market at all. Marathon will run at a locked 60 on console and run at much higher framerates on PC.

The Finals recently offered a 120fps mode on console that did nothing to attract more players. Value is not found in small white numbers on the corner of your screen.

And yes, this is an alpha, but there's really no excuse to look this bad and play this bad 5 months out... You can have one or the other here...

I'm not worried about it. This alpha was originally supposed to be under NDA because Bungie knows how certain types overreact to non finished visuals. This conversation may have merit if the game looks identical in September. It won't.

Do you know how you should know you're parroting things about the 3rd and 4th map? Because you haven't seen it. End of story...

Illogical statement but we will move on.

If they don't delay this game and significantly with massive adjustments, it's going to fail. That's just a reality at this point.

It's the reality you want to believe. Not mine. We need to see the progression pillar before such statements can be viewed as reasonable.

What I can tell you is that even if team play makes the game significantly better, let people get into the game the way they want to and let the game build out a userbase, that will eventually find team play. Instead, what you have is people just not playing it. Many games have solo and duo queues even if they have 3 man teams. As a non F2P game this should have been a must.

Bungie disagrees. They prioritized teamplay over solos for a reason. I don't see how that's the right call but I'm not a game developer. Their experience

That's not ONLY what it does, it also acts as a barrier of entry. F2P, I'm sure a bunch of people would try this game who otherwise wouldn't. You as a studio have to overcome that with a premium price model. The higher the price the bigger the barrier.

Escape from Tarkov and Hunt are the only truly successful Extraction games and they're both P2P. I'll bet you either Marathon and / or ARC Raiders turn into hits at $40 bucks.

10 dollars is a significantly lower barrier than 40. That the most interested people aren't hooked on the game in the free alpha suggests you have a serious problem.

What am I supposed to do with this wrench if there's nothing to wrench on? 4th map matters.

That's a nuance that isn't going to be captured unless word of mouth spreads. They need to do major damage control and another alpha before a pre-order exclusive beta.

Nope.

Bungie doesn't make adjustments based on word of mouth. They have far more advanced, detailed telemetry to look at in ordee to judge how players like certain designs.

Because they didn't see the future nor did they plan for it. People often make mistakes and they double down on those mistakes. People unwilling to say, hey, I made a mistake are often the first ones to fail.

Those of us in the peanut gallery often make mistakes as well...though few of us like to admit it.

I abhor comparisons to Concord because I think they're crude and lazy, but it's the same mentality. "I don't need to listen to my audience and I'll find an audience regardless." That's how people lose their jobs.

It sounds like Bungie has been listening to feedback a lot over the last few years. Many of the streamers painted pretty interesting pictures of Bungie employees encouraging strong critical feedback during numerous playtests. I never heard that during the Concord failure.

 

[clarky]

you are seeing that in the alpha but instead of 5 months they had like 2-5 years.

This looks like it was completely rebooted 2 years ago when the Valorant guy took over.

This build is likely a couple of months old at least as well, id say they still have time to work before release. Not a lot, but still enough to make some improvements.

Bungie, I swear they are their own worst enemy most of the time.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

If Bungie were smart they would reveal a roadmap to Destiny 3 to get Destiny 2 players who are currently hating on Marathon off their backs.

Even if the game comes out in 2028 or 2029 it isn't too early to start talking about it to ensure Destiny players that they haven't been forgotten about.

It's crazy how big companies have these unforced errors.

That's their choice.

The article shows that Bungie doesn't have the intention to make Marathon the "next Destiny", contrary to what some people claim.

That narrative doesn't even make sense, given how 'only' 300 out of the 850 employees are on Marathon.

Doesn't change much about all the proper criticism and scepticism, but it does put some things in perspective.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

REPO is not F2P and is far uglier.
Schedule I is not F2P and is far uglier.

Human DNA hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. We're willing to pay for entertainment.

I find this argument to be amusing. We see people paid for Overwatch, Sea of Thieves, Rust, Hunt Showdown but no more. Why no more?

You're talking about two 10 dollar games. If Marathon comes out for 10 dollars you might have a point.

All of those games came out years ago and the market has largely shifted. There are too many options to play for low cost for a game with barriers in front of it to find any real success. They build barriers on their own.

Right, but we won't know where Marathon falls until we see the full loop. Progression is a core pillar of this genre and Bungie is hiding it during the alpha.

People don't care about the full loop, they've already made their minds up.

Genuinely preposterous statement. PvP players don't care about 120fps. That's fringe PC streamer nonsense that doesn't seep into the console market at all. Marathon will run at a locked 60 on console and run at much higher framerates on PC.

The Finals recently offered a 120fps mode on console that did nothing to attract more players. Value is not found in small white numbers on the corner of your screen.

You can't add a 120 fps mode after the fact and hope that brings people in. It's too late by then. PVP players absolutely care about framerate.

I'm not worried about it. This alpha was originally supposed to be under NDA because Bungie knows how certain types overreact to non finished visuals. This conversation may have merit if the game looks identical in September. It won't.

They shouldn't have done an alpha where they're at anyways, but like I said, they should have retooled when they got a new director.

Illogical statement but we will move on.


It's the reality you want to believe. Not mine. We need to see the progression pillar before such statements can be viewed as reasonable.

Again, no one cares. You have to be perfect to gain an audience these days.

Bungie disagrees. They prioritized teamplay over solos for a reason. I don't see how that's the right call but I'm not a game developer. Their experience

Developers aren't omnipotent.

Escape from Tarkov and Hunt are the only truly successful Extraction games and they're both P2P. I'll bet you either Marathon and / or ARC Raiders turn into hits at $40 bucks.

I bet Marathon won't unless it's delayed. I'd bet my account on it vs yours.

What am I supposed to do with this wrench if there's nothing to wrench on? 4th map matters.

Nope.

Bungie doesn't make adjustments based on word of mouth. They have far more advanced, detailed telemetry to look at in ordee to judge how players like certain designs.

They've been living off of feedback from streamers for 2-3 years... they are clueless.

Those of us in the peanut gallery often make mistakes as well...though few of us like to admit it.


It sounds like Bungie has been listening to feedback a lot over the last few years. Many of the streamers painted pretty interesting pictures of Bungie employees encouraging strong critical feedback during numerous playtests. I never heard that during the Concord failure.

See above. I was glad they did an alpha early enough before release, but their product isn't where it needs to be and 5 months won't get it there.

That's their choice.

The article shows that Bungie doesn't have the intention to make Marathon the "next Destiny", contrary to what some people claim.

That narrative doesn't even make sense, given how 'only' 300 out of the 850 employees are on Marathon.

Doesn't change much about all the proper criticism and scepticism, but it does put some things in perspective.

Perception is a big part of marketing. Simply is what it is. They fear that if Marathon is successful, they'll direct resources towards it rather than Destiny. They've already seen less support for Destiny 2. It's a PR nightmare.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Perception is a big part of marketing. Simply is what it is. They fear that if Marathon is successful, they'll direct resources towards it rather than Destiny. They've already seen less support for Destiny 2. It's a PR nightmare.

Nah, I think the bigger fear comes from people who fear that Sony might have a few live service hits, because in their heads it'll spell the end of Sony's singleplayer output.

As Destiny relies heavily on PvE, Marathon being an extraction shooters was always going to get pushback.
Bungie undoubtedly knows this, hence why they're likely not all-in on Marathon.

 

[L*][*N*K]

If this game doesn't magically get a +85 on Metacritic it will die in less than six months and probably taking Bungie down with it, we all act like this is 2014 people would give games a shot the market is so saturated there is no way a working class gamer would pick Marathon over Borderlands 4 in September if Marathon is not a big deal.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You're talking about two 10 dollar games. If Marathon comes out for 10 dollars you might have a point.

But both those games also look and play substantially worse than Marathon.
In the end, nothing has changed. People will pay for fun.

All of those games came out years ago and the market has largely shifted. There are too many options to play for low cost for a game with barriers in front of it to find any real success. They build barriers on their own.

REPO and Schedule I just came out, but I can see why you'd want to disregard them. Hunt Showdown and Escape from Tarkov seemingly continue to sell well.

If Marathon compares favorably to Hunt Showdown, it will find an audience at $40 dollars. No one is buying Hunt based on its CCU. Games live or die based on fun factor and if friends are getting other friends to play. CCU is a result of those two factors...not a cause of those two factors.

People don't care about the full loop, they've already made their minds up.

Another preposterous statement. You don't seem to understand how any of this works.

DayZ has gone long stretches with sub 2k CCU. You would have just as easily said "People have made up their minds about DayZ".

That's not how people work.
That's not how GAAS works.

You can't add a 120 fps mode after the fact and hope that brings people in. It's too late by then. PVP players absolutely care about framerate.

Did you just make up an absurd rule because console gamers don't care about 120fps?

They shouldn't have done an alpha where they're at anyways, but like I said, they should have retooled when they got a new director.

They did.

Christopher Barretts vision was much different than Zieglers. Barrett got the axe because his vision was a mess. Ziegler came in and shipped the mess in a timely fashion.

Again, no one cares. You have to be perfect to gain an audience these days.

Perfect games do not exist, nor will they ever exist.

I bet Marathon won't unless it's delayed. I'd bet my account on it vs yours.

What's the bet? I would prefer sticking you with the Marathon logo as an avatar.

They've been living off of feedback from streamers for 2-3 years... they are clueless.

Wrong again. They've taken feedback from numerous skill level groups, not just streamers.

Perception is a big part of marketing. Simply is what it is. They fear that if Marathon is successful, they'll direct resources towards it rather than Destiny. They've already seen less support for Destiny 2. It's a PR nightmare.

Destiny 2 has had long stretches of disastrous public perception. It's routinely one of the highest grossing games every year. The internet regularly makes Michael Pachter look like a genius.

 

[clarky]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Nah, I think the bigger fear comes from people who fear that Sony might have a few live service hits, because in their heads it'll spell the end of Sony's singleplayer output.

As Destiny relies heavily on PvE, Marathon being an extraction shooters was always going to get pushback.
Bungie undoubtedly knows this, hence why they're likely not all-in on Marathon.

It's all compounding.

You have people rooting for projects to fail because they think the result will be more games that they like and less that they don't.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This looks like it was completely rebooted 2 years ago when the Valorant guy took over.

This build is likely a couple of months old at least as well, id say they still have time to work before release. Not a lot, but still enough to make some improvements.

Bungie, I swear they are their own worst enemy most of the time.

Yeah. Devs are not really stupid or incompetent in a pragmatic way. When a project doesn't come together, it's usually due to a lack of vision/direction, technical, and/or technological issues.

I'm sure if we knew the circumstances around what they delivered with the Marathon alpha, it would be impressive.

I'm not really optimistic tho, because the foundation of the game, it seems, is at odds with what they are trying to achieve. having a 5 team squad where some can work together and one or two could be playing "solo" (on their own) would be a less punishing team configuration; the 3 team squad will be it's demise

 

[clarky]

Yeah. Devs are not really stupid or incompetent in a pragmatic way. When a project doesn't come together, it's usually due to a lack of vision/direction, technical, and/or technological issues.

I'm sure if we knew the circumstances around what they delivered with the Marathon alpha, it would be impressive.

I'm not really optimistic tho, because the foundation of the game, it seems, is at odds with what they are trying to achieve. having a 5 team squad where some can work together and one or two could be playing "solo" (on their own) would be a less punishing team configuration; the 3 team squad will be it's demise

Yeah, common feed back seems to be its really fun with a proper squad but falls apart with randoms or playing solo. That's a huge issue and needs sorting before launch.

Duo's should be super easy to implement, solo's not so much but they need to do something.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yeah, common feed back seems to be its really fun with a proper squad but falls apart with randoms or playing solo. That's a huge issue and needs sorting before launch.

Duo's should be super easy to implement, solo's not so much but they need to do something.

Nobody is going to be playing a closed alpha as seriously as an official release irt teamplay.

The main goal is to test and try out the game, mechanics and progression-system

 

[clarky]

Nobody is going to be playing a closed alpha as seriously as an official release irt teamplay.

The main goal is to test and try out the game, mechanics and progression-system

I dont buy this at all. Thats the dev's main goals. The players main goals is to have fun.

They want to see how it performs in the wild and so far the main feedback seems to be if you don't have a premade team the game sucks.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I dont buy this at all. Thats the dev's main goals. The players main goals is to have fun.

Yeah, during an actual release.

Who plays a closed alpha like it's an actual release?

I've never played any alpha/beta 24/7 for it's entire duration.
It's not the point. The purpose is to playtest the core of the game and find bugs and provide feedback. Especially during an alpha.

 

[clarky]

Who plays a closed alpha like it's an actual release?

All the streams ive been watching the last 3 days have been. I've had it on at work for 6 hours a day in the background while I sort out some very boring spreadsheets.

Like I said its the main gripe from basically every person, even those who are super positive on it.

I don't see players behaviour changing that much at launch, if anything it will get worse.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

All the streams ive been watching the last 3 days have been. I've had it on at work for 6 hours a day in the background while I sort out some very boring spreadsheets.

Like I said its the main grape from basically every person, even those who are super positive on it.

I don't see players behaviour changing that much at launch, if anything it will get worse.

So, if every person has issues with teammates running off and not playing the game as it should, that proves my point that nobody is playing as they actually would upon full release.

There isn't even any reason to do so rn, because the alpha ends in a week and all progress will be wiped anyway.

 

[clarky]

So, if every person has issues with teammates running off and not playing the game as it should, that proves my point that nobody is playing as they actually would upon full release.

There isn't even any reason to do so rn, because the alpha ends in a week and all progress will be wiped anyway.

Ok we'll have to disagree on this one. Its an issue in almost every MP I play that the majority of randoms don't tend play objectives or use comms.

Its compounded in this game right now as Bungie thinks at a good idea to give each team member a different set of objectives that are usually on different parts of the map.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Ok we'll have to disagree on this one. Its an issue in almost every MP I play that the majority of randoms don't tend play objectives or use comms.

Its compounded in this game right now as Bungie thinks at a good idea to give each team member a different set of objectives that are usually on different parts of the map.

I never had any problems playing with randoms in games like Destiny, Hunt, Paragon, Smite, Division, Overwatch, etc.
And 99.99% of my playtime in online multiplayer is strictly with randoms.

I'm just saying that you can't really say much going by a closed alpha. It's not a realistic environment.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Oh my, an actual extraction veteran who would like Marathon to have a price tag and gives constructive feedback.

Meanwhile the doomers knows what's best..

 

[clarky]

Oh my, an actual extraction veteran who would like Marathon to have a price tag and gives constructive feedback.

Meanwhile the doomers knows what's best..

Yeah, seems like a solid take.

 

[SnapShot]

Tarkov Player's thoughts:

 

[MiguelItUp]

Tarkov Player's thoughts:

Ah, I didn't think about checking out Onepeg's impressions. He's played a ton of extraction shooters, especially Dark & Darker. Can't disagree with him here at all, definitely the feeling it's left with me.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Tarkov Player's thoughts:

I understand his perspective, where Marathon is nowhere near as hardcore as Tarkov, but I think that is the point of Marathon. The elements that he really enjoys about Tarkov are the same things that turn off a lot of gamers(die easier, no map, complicated loot system). It has a crazy amount of depth

For Marathon, It will come down to what % of gamers enjoy the extraction genre but don't find the hardcore and time exhausting nature of Tarkov as suitable. Bungie wants Marathon to be much more approachable

 

[MMaRsu]

Not for solo.. Hero shooter extraction.. no promity chat.. lmao

 

[clarky]

Not for solo.. Hero shooter extraction.. no promity chat.. lmao

So you just took all his negatives and disregarded everything else he has to say.

 

[MMaRsu]

I understand his perspective, where Marathon is nowhere near as hardcore as Tarkov, but I think that is the point of Marathon. The elements that he really enjoys about Tarkov are the same things that turn off a lot of gamers(die easier, no map, complicated loot system). It has a crazy amount of depth

For Marathon, It will come down to what % of gamers enjoy the extraction genre but don't find the hardcore and time exhausting nature of Tarkov as suitable. Bungie wants Marathon to be much more approachable

it sounds like an apex extraction mode

So you just took all his negatives and disregarded everything else he has to say.

Not at all but it doesnt sound interesting. In an extraction game Id want people to have the same basic skills and abilities. These stupid hero powers ruin it all. Wallhack? Get real stupid ass casual bullshit

Not too mention the horrible aim assist

 

[clarky]

it sounds like an apex extraction mode

Not at all but it doesnt sound interesting. In an extraction game Id want people to have the same basic skills and abilities. These stupid hero powers ruin it all. Wallhack? Get real stupid ass casual bullshit

Not too mention the horrible aim assist

Of course its casual. Not everyone can be as hardcore as you mate.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So you just took all his negatives and disregarded everything else he has to say.

Those negatives kill it for a lot of players regardless what else he says

A lot of people want to play solo and have a good time and not worry about having to deal with random Rambos or AFK teammates that are useless

 

[clarky]

Those negatives kill it for a lot of players regardless what else he says

A lot of people want to play solo and have a good time and not worry about having to deal with random Rambos or AFK teammates that are useless

Absolutely. Being trio's ony is a death sentence for the game. I never said otherwise. That video I posted was just a follow up to his general impressions.

 

[MayauMiao]

If this game doesn't magically get a +85 on Metacritic it will die in less than six months and probably taking Bungie down with it, we all act like this is 2014 people would give games a shot the market is so saturated there is no way a working class gamer would pick Marathon over Borderlands 4 in September if Marathon is not a big deal.

Metacritic is a poor benchmark for online games that constantly get updates. There is no magical Metacritic number that can determine a game's success. Marvel Rivals got 74, yet it continues to have over 100k players. Same goes to games like Rust, 69 yet still being played by many.

For Bungie to shut down Marathon, it has to fail spectacularly like Concord at launch.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Absolutely. Being trio's ony is a death sentence for the game. I never said otherwise. That video I posted was just a follow up to his general impressions.

I agree its playing with death if they can't figure out some type of solo play at launch

Not planned for a year later or 6 months later as I don't think it will have that kind of time without it

What I mean is the people who were interested as solo players wont wait that long

 

[clarky]

I agree its playing with death if they can't figure out some type of solo play at launch

Not planned for a year later or 6 months later as I don't think it will have that kind of time without it

What I mean is the people who were interested as solo players wont wait that long

A duo's ques should be super simple to implement. A solo que would deffo need some tweaks to the NPC's from what ive seen. All 3 should absolutely be in for launch though. How much actual work can it be?

Crazy they are not in and typical Bungie who think they know best as usual.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

it sounds like an apex extraction mode

Not at all but it doesnt sound interesting. In an extraction game Id want people to have the same basic skills and abilities. These stupid hero powers ruin it all. Wallhack? Get real stupid ass casual bullshit

Not too mention the horrible aim assist

Marathon feels very different from Apex. Much slower and methodical. You must be against Valorant too because they have characters with very similar powers. I wouldn't call that a "casual" game

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

There's no solo queue option? Hunt not only allows solo and duo queue versus trios, it even has perks that grant bonuses and new functionality if you are solo.

Game is sounding worse and worse.

 

[MMaRsu]

delete