-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
March Wrasslin |OT| Road To WrassleMania
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
- Status
a secret-boss
Banned
I understand Rock is trying to get Cena over but where's the build up for the match. Rock needs to let loose during face to face with Cena
BoboBrazil
Member
It's so damn ridiculous because the Rock from late 90s/early 00s would have never let all this shit happen without hitting Cena. If these guys hate each other so much atleast come to blows. WWE is so fucking afraid of someone being the heel in this feud and they are doing everything in their power to try and get Cena cheers when he is the clear heel in the feud.
Officerrob
Banned
Your so funny. They are doing everything possible to get Cena over with the fans including making the Rock look like an idiot and it still doesn't work. This feud is crap, nobody is saving it.
Yeah the Rock was stiffer than Hancock's pen out there.
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
The last time Sing along with The Rock and Rapping Cena happened was when they're heels right? This means someone is turning heel and finally we'll have some drama in this feud!
lol
lol
Yup. Said this multiple times already. He's such a phony. I can't stand Dwayne. His only redeeming factor is he isn't as boring as Cena. I mean, nobody is as boring as Cena. Not even Sheamus!
Its not the wrist notes. Its the 15 minutes of saying nothing but Kung Pao bitch, having someone call you out in the span of two minutes, and then say nothing for the next 5 minutes to close the show.
I thought Cena had the right idea two weeks ago when he made the match personal, came out with his "shoot" promo and continued it last week. But then he was all over the place, and smiled at everything the Rock said. The pre-recorded Rock stuff was great, but his live promo didn't deliver.
This feud has no tangible momentum on either side.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
True, and I went to one of those just a few weeks ago!
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
They had Cena do promos in an empty arena tonight. And Rock still sucked.
TheNatural
My Member!
The problem is, Cena is WWE's weak ass product right now. You bury Cena, you're basically burying WWE.
Let The Rock go in shoot mode on how much ratings have dropped since Cena's has become the face of WWE and how uncool wrestling is now to the mainstream public, when back in the Attitude Era they were dropping twice the ratings and what RAW's are doing nowadays, Sunday Night Heat's were doing back then.
Ether Cena, you ether the product. That's why whenever head to head comes up, The Rock can't do what Cena does. Cena takes worked shoot shots at The rock's career and not showing up, if The Rock did worked shoot on Cena he basically buries the product.
Big problem they can't see mto get around.
The Rock is still one of their most popluar characters and brands. Ruining him does no good either, and Rock has always excelled as a heel. They just don't know where to go with either. I have a theory on how the match will turn out, but its pretty much fantasy booking at this point.
Dark Ninja
Member
Cena needs to stop smiling and laughing during the promos
Net_Wrecker
Member
I mean, I love a verbal confrontation as much as the next guy, but the feud starts getting real tedious and awkward when they're trying to lay into the REAL person behind the gimmick, but nobody's throwing a punch. THIS is why nobody had confidence in a year long build. It's crap. If they aren't going to hit each other, just keep running the 24/7 style promos and keep them away from each other until the final week. It's just weird now, especially when Rocky's making fun of Cena, then Cena just makes fun of himself as well. Where's the drama?
This feud needs a brawl. Not the Raw before WM either, that's too late. Tonight should've been it. Instead of the self-effacing, smug smiling Cena, the guy should've just got in a cheap shot, and BAH GOD security everywhere.
mightynine
Member
I've decided that my previous statement should've been both Cena and Rock's characters are all over the place.
Rock's funny for remote bits! Cena's super serious in an empty arena! Cena live is yuk yuk SERIOUS yuk yuk! Rock is I RESPECT YOU BOOKERMAN super serious! Cena grins whateva SUNVABITCH jump in crowd drink beer!
...yeah.
Rock's funny for remote bits! Cena's super serious in an empty arena! Cena live is yuk yuk SERIOUS yuk yuk! Rock is I RESPECT YOU BOOKERMAN super serious! Cena grins whateva SUNVABITCH jump in crowd drink beer!
...yeah.
Killing_Joke
Member
The earlier promos were good. Typical Rock (not a bad thing)
The Cena emo promo was fucking god awful. So damn chessy and boring. Your supposed to HATE this man. He cost you the title last year. He made you look like a fool at survivor series. He's been talking shit about you for a year. Where is the anger?? Cena losing to the rock won't do jack shit to his career. It's a boring storyline. BUT if he goes heel a la Austin because he HAS to win, then all is forgiven but not a god damn person is expecting that.
Now as for Rocks in ring promos...Well big disappointment...But that's because face rock sucks balls. Rock as a face only had one good run and that was between 99-01. After that he went downhill but then blessed us with hollywood rock before his departure.
This fued needed a full fledged heel. Cenas back and forth nonsense with twitter rock just isn't cutting it.
Rock concert?!?!? Interesting...
The Cena emo promo was fucking god awful. So damn chessy and boring. Your supposed to HATE this man. He cost you the title last year. He made you look like a fool at survivor series. He's been talking shit about you for a year. Where is the anger?? Cena losing to the rock won't do jack shit to his career. It's a boring storyline. BUT if he goes heel a la Austin because he HAS to win, then all is forgiven but not a god damn person is expecting that.
Now as for Rocks in ring promos...Well big disappointment...But that's because face rock sucks balls. Rock as a face only had one good run and that was between 99-01. After that he went downhill but then blessed us with hollywood rock before his departure.
This fued needed a full fledged heel. Cenas back and forth nonsense with twitter rock just isn't cutting it.
Rock concert?!?!? Interesting...
TheNatural
My Member!
And whats funny is, these guys have already gotten physical with each other plenty enough before last year, it's not like they have to keep waiting.
WWE is treating Cena with kid gloves. The Rock's whole character is on shit talking and burying someone, and if there are flaws in your character or support, and not strong enough to feud against it, you'll get buried yourself. He shit talked constantly in the Foley and Austin feuds back in the day, but those guys were great at taking it and giving it back. The Rock buried lesser guys like Booker T and Rikishi at the time and made them look like complete jobbers when they tried to feud.
I think that's what they're trying to avoid now, it's really weird. They've never hesitated letting The Rock loose just flat out burying guys in his feuds in the past and now, they're scripting it so Cena won't look bad, by nerfing The Rock for the most part.
Officerrob
Banned
The first Rock promo was good, but everything else involving those two tonight completely sucked, and it's not going to get better either. The problem is that they have to castrate the Rock because he can't bury Cena too badly because he still has to be the face of the company in a month. When you build a match for a year and have to hold back during the build-up, this is the kind of shit you end-up with
BoboBrazil
Member
Shit they don't even have to come to blows. Have them act like they are about to start fighting and have the pull apart from the agents or have Johnny Ace say that he can't allow his main event to be risked by them getting injured and ban them from hitting each other or in ring competition until Mania thus getting him more heel heat. There are ways they can do this to make it work. Having Rock make fun of Cena merch is bad for their business. How many of that shit like gnomes or clocks do they think they will sell after that promo?
Dark Ninja
Member
Agreed. Cena is winning and will challange Punk for the tilte at the next PPV. He will win and go back to dominating the WWE again
If that happens no more WWE and I'll try something useful with my time. Maybe learn Japanese.
Fuck that. Then there's absolutely no reason to watch anymore.
There's no growth or change in Cena's character. He can't be redeemed because he's always a boy scout. Good is boring after so long.
Yep! Pretty much no-sold everything the Rock said, and it just killed what should have been a serious moment. Just off-key from what the situation called for, especially since he was Mr. Serious in his earlier promo.
And it doesn't need any face/heel garbage. Just lay out clear points on why you're feuding and why winning over this guy is so important and why losing is unacceptable. Instead, it's a muddled mess with weeks of inconstant promos as well as singing and rapping incoming.
TheNatural
My Member!
A decade ago you had fucking Hulk Hogan returning to the WWF. Think of all the shit that happened in that very short build:
- The rock gave Hogan the Rock Bottom as soon as the match was accepted
- Hogan and the nWo struck back with a hammer to the head, and some ridiculous, but at least building the match semi into the ambulance
- Hogan won CLEAN over The Rock in a tag match on RAW with the leg drop
- Hogan went into Wrestlemania despite the build as a total face and The Rock as the heel and The Rock immediately adapted and played the heel role in the match to a T
Wow what a difference a decade makes. I guess that's the difference when you have two wrestlers people care about, and one now trying to not make the other one look bad because his gimmick is so fucking wore out and fragile.
Officerrob
Banned
What this feud needs is two things:
1) Cena needs to stop the smiley, aw shucks crap and be 100% serious.
2) Rock needs to embrace the "Hollywood Rock" persona. Your a huge star, act like it. He doesn't have to be a complete heel, just be a heel towards Cena which is what people want. Rock isn't getting booed at Mania no matter what they do, so liven-up his fucking character.
1) Cena needs to stop the smiley, aw shucks crap and be 100% serious.
2) Rock needs to embrace the "Hollywood Rock" persona. Your a huge star, act like it. He doesn't have to be a complete heel, just be a heel towards Cena which is what people want. Rock isn't getting booed at Mania no matter what they do, so liven-up his fucking character.
funkystudent
Member
Cena's goofy smile really killed that last segment.
What are they even trying to do. each week we are jumping back and forth between serious Cena/goofy Cena and asshole Cena.
The rock at least has always been kind of silly so he can go back and forth and its less jaring but Cena seems to be changing characters and coming up with different meanings for the rocks comments each week.
They really need to kick this feud into high gear.
Cena should have just slugged Rock after he called him his bitch.
What are they even trying to do. each week we are jumping back and forth between serious Cena/goofy Cena and asshole Cena.
The rock at least has always been kind of silly so he can go back and forth and its less jaring but Cena seems to be changing characters and coming up with different meanings for the rocks comments each week.
They really need to kick this feud into high gear.
Cena should have just slugged Rock after he called him his bitch.
BoboBrazil
Member
There's only 2 ways Cena can go after Mania. Either a rematch with Rock at Summerslam or the WWE title. The Rock/Cena rematch would be good as it would allow a Rock win at Mania atleast and then Cena would come back and win the blowoff at Summerslam. That could also push him into the heel character by "losing everything he has" and snapping. Either way Cena continues to be the main event. Unfortunately, a Cena win at Wrestlemania is pretty much a guarantee with the current scene in WWE.
Net_Wrecker
Member
These are good points and it's a problem I had with the CM Punk "make this stuff fun again" angle as well. What he REALLY meant was "The booking, and storylines suck" but you can't come out and say that. When you start dipping your foot into burying the company or the face of the company (which in turn means you have to bury the company), the feud gets real hazy and there's no clear motivation behind anyone fighting. These guys on the mic, IN THE RING, aren't cutting it for me anymore. They should be at each other's throats by now with all the talking they've done.
TheNatural
My Member!
When you're scared to change things you've already lost the feud. Seriously, how often does it happen that the crowd, really really wants to turn someone heel based on their reaction and the company flat out REFUSES to make that change because they're scared that merchandise sales will collapse.
I mean, fuck, Hogan's been turned heel. Bret has been turned heel. Fucking Austin was turned heel to join Vince. On and on and on. But this is the only wrestling I know they flat out refuse to turn heel so now when someone comes along and exposes the flaws in the character, you have to hold back to protect him.
BoboBrazil
Member
They've booked themselves into a corner though. Even as horrible as the Austin turn was, he still had credible faces to go up against. Cena has buried everyone in their feuds with him for 6+ years. There are no credible people to take his place because he's made everyone look so bad. Orton is the only other guy that is somewhat on Cena's level right now. Not to mention now WWE's back and forth seesaw midcard where everyone traded wins and losses back and forth endlessly every week with no momentum in either direction. WWE is now reaping the fruits of what they've done over the years.
canoli2006
Member
Just by reading all the recent comments in this thread, I'm so glad that I stopped watching.
Officerrob
Banned
Cena winning at Mania and taking the title from Punk at the PPV in Chicago is exactly where we are headed
Net_Wrecker
Member
It's Cena ACCEPTING how corny he is, and pointing it out like a stand up comedian that grinds my gears. That just makes me not care anymore. If someone lays into the way you look, the way you dress, and who you are as a person, but you come out and say "Yeah, I'm a cornball, but blah blah blah blah"......you've already lost me at accepting that you suck. Why should I care about a guy who makes fun of his own jean shorts, or his Woman Woman wristbands, or his KNEE PADS (like he isn't going to be in the dark main event) without any come back other than "OHH MAH DAMN, YOU WAS SHOOK, SON." Then nobody hitting each other is the icing on the crap cake.
One contract signing with Cena, Rock, Vince, Johnny Ace, Holla Holla, a brawl and a ton of security trying to break it up would've done more for this feud than they've done with weeks of vignettes and promos. I liked Cena's response last week, and Rocky's first 2 "History Lessons" this week, but I'm officially tired of hearing these guys.
funkystudent
Member
Just image how awesome it would be if Cena turned at maina and went into Chicago vs Punk as a heel.
TheNatural
My Member!
I'll agree, but even with the burying, it's all about getting people to care. They don't know how to get anyone to care about feuds anymore. IMO, you need at least one of 3 things to build a good feud:
- Great out of match build - Rarely happens anymore because WWE has the PG mentality nowadays and there's very little more than a match run in or a couple of promos to build a "feud"
- Great in ring build - Rarely happens because 5 star matches are almost a way of the past for current WWE. What Punk and Jericho can do in the ing is interesting though. This is the kind of thing that was the big builder to a lot of ECW matches and is the main thing in indy feds still, just seeing the match.
- Clash of titans/big match feel: Kind of goes along with the first two, but wrestling is good when guys are built to a high level not through winning, but their gimmick, personalities, and standing out doing their own thing. Things like "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock. Taz vs. Sabu. Guys who have their own gimmicks, personalities, and histories built up through feuds.
No one cares anymore because none of that is there. A lot of people bring up guys who are being buried, but when wins and losses don't even seem to matter in the first place, what does it matter? You have a bunch of personality-less wrestlers who aren't notable for anything just bouncing in forgettable meaningless feuds because there is none of the three above points for anyone to care about them.
Outside of Sheamus being a big pale white guy, Kofi being a black guy, Miz being a loud slow speaker on the mic, and Dolph Ziggler having bleach blonde hair what the fuck is the difference between any of these guys? No one gives a fuck about any of them, nothing is notable about them, and they've never been in any meaningful memorable feuds because nothing memorable or meaningful is ever booked. Bland, vanilla, generic PG wrestling. And when guys from the past return or even guys like Punk gain some momentum by changing up the formula a little bit, they're doomed to fall right back into the muck.
Officerrob
Banned
Just image how awesome it would be if Cena turned at maina and went into Chicago vs Punk as a heel.
I have no doubt they would screw-up Cena's heel turn after one or two weeks
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
And despite the boos he'll get Cena will still be the top face in the WWE's eyes because he rises above the hate.(and sells the most merchandise) *insert 20 minute vignette with MGK's Invincible in the background*.
funkystudent
Member
It would the most exciting angle in WWE in over 10 years.
I am sure Triple H will squash it within 2 PPV's of its starting.
Where he reveals he was just joking about being heel, he'd never betray the universe!
Arrowgigantic
Member
So, I'm not much of a Wrestlemania historian-- have there ever been any that ended with booing?
Everything but the first segment and the tag match were pretty uneventful, to me. The Rock was missing yet again but Cena didn't wow me either. HBK, at the beginning, was pretty nice but overall, it just made me want to see HBK/HHH. Although, looking at HBK as ref, they could paint everything as the odds are completely against Taker and yet he still beats HHH at WM. Granted, it doesn't look like HBK and HHH will be on the same page by WM.
BTW, Ryder is a complete dweeb.
http://stevegraps.blogspot.com
BTW, Ryder is a complete dweeb.
http://stevegraps.blogspot.com
BoboBrazil
Member
Yeah this is true. As much as people say that PG hasn't hurt WWE on here, I feel it has. Especially the lack of blood. That's been used since the 60's to add heat to a feud or make a match seem like a hard fought battle and now without it, matches just don't feel as big. Also the lack of Jim Ross announcing. He could make even the shittiest feuds have an epic feel about them and added a much needed intensity to the product. Cole ignoring moves and being silent forcing Lawler to try to call moves should not be happening. There's no more blowing up cars, very few backstage brawls, very little use of weapons, etc.
Also, how would you feel if you are The Rock and you are in the ring trying to make your upcoming match have this huge once in a lifetime feeling by confronting your opponent and staring him down seriously like you want to destroy him and the idiot is just sitting there smiling and laughing the entire time? How does WWE think this is good?
TheNatural
My Member!
There have been some pretty bad boring finishing bouts but I don't ever remember booing. Triple H - Jericho was about as silent of a match as I could remember for a "main event" at Wrestlemania X8. Triple H won as a heel at Wrestlemania 2000 so people weren't happy with that. Funny the common theme in those two.
UberTag
Member
<continues to sleep through Cena/Rock discussion>
Zzzzzzzz.
You guys should follow my lead. Vince sure isn't getting worked up like you guys about how bad his product sucks. Why should you? It's not your company.
We've rehashed these "why nobody gets built up" arguments ad infinitum again and again.
We all know nothing gets built.
We all know nothing ever changes.
We all know why the commentary sucks.
We all know that the only angles that get over are "lightning in a bottle" moments that are never logically built and are subsequently overexposed until you're sick of them (Zack Ryder) or buried by Triple H.
Discussing them ad nauseum just turns WrassleGAF into the broken record that is the WWE product. We should just watch in hopes for good workrate and memorable matches from talented wrestlers knowing full well that the outcomes of their feuds will never matter because Vince and Trips and Cena will always and forever be the same.
I got to see a phenomental TV match between CM Punk and Daniel Bryan on Smackdown 10 days ago. That's enough for me. It'll probably outshine anything thrown out there at Mania for an outrageous asking price.
Zzzzzzzz.
You guys should follow my lead. Vince sure isn't getting worked up like you guys about how bad his product sucks. Why should you? It's not your company.
We've rehashed these "why nobody gets built up" arguments ad infinitum again and again.
We all know nothing gets built.
We all know nothing ever changes.
We all know why the commentary sucks.
We all know that the only angles that get over are "lightning in a bottle" moments that are never logically built and are subsequently overexposed until you're sick of them (Zack Ryder) or buried by Triple H.
Discussing them ad nauseum just turns WrassleGAF into the broken record that is the WWE product. We should just watch in hopes for good workrate and memorable matches from talented wrestlers knowing full well that the outcomes of their feuds will never matter because Vince and Trips and Cena will always and forever be the same.
I got to see a phenomental TV match between CM Punk and Daniel Bryan on Smackdown 10 days ago. That's enough for me. It'll probably outshine anything thrown out there at Mania for an outrageous asking price.
- Status