• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Margaret Thatcher has died

Status
Not open for further replies.
More likely to hurt it actually (speaking from experience - Uni's are more likely to go for the state school candidate if there's a tie between one a privately educated one); but the education you've recieved/ preparation (particularly for interviews if you're applying for Oxbridge) gives you the edge if you go to one of these schools, which is why they dominate universities.

I think the statistic is the top 5 schools send more than the bottom 2000 combined?

Could be, I'm working off memory, but that makes it even more alarming.

Left is left. No 'moderate' or 'extreme' ones. All the same pot of shit. It's like a religion, there are moderates and extremes and all kinds of people. Some believe in this part others believe in another. But they're all part of the same religion, all have the same principles. One might not be 'extreme' in one aspect but be extreme in another. One might not support the views of one extreme followers but empathize with him/her because ultimately there's a well of shit those extreme views came from and it's the shared culture and values of the faithful, not some vacuum. The more you read leftists blogs and newspapers - and especially the comments where they're not restrained by the need to appear moderate (as politicians do) the more obvious it becomes. If a leftists has a real problem with those 'extremes' he wouldn't be a leftist. No different than a racist who has friends who owns slaves but he himself doesn't own any. Yeah, his friends are more 'extreme,' but both are the same shit to me.

This is a ridiculous assertion. I'm no leftie but come on, I've met hundreds of the moderate lefties whose political views are just an uncomplicated compassion to their fellow person.
 
Left is left. No 'moderate' or 'extreme' ones. All the same pot of shit. It's like a religion, there are moderates and extremes and all kinds of people. Some believe in this part others believe in another. But they're all part of the same religion, all have the same principles. One might not be 'extreme' in one aspect but be extreme in another. One might not support the views of one extreme followers but empathize with him/her because ultimately there's a well of shit those extreme views came from and it's the shared culture and values of the faithful, not some vacuum. The more you read leftists blogs and newspapers - and especially the comments where they're not restrained by the need to appear moderate (as politicians do) the more obvious it becomes. If a leftists has a real problem with those 'extremes' he wouldn't be a leftist. No different than a racist who has friends who owns slaves but he himself doesn't own any. Yeah, his friends are more 'extreme,' but both are the same shit to me.

This is just gibberish.
 
Left is left. No 'moderate' or 'extreme' ones. All the same pot of shit. It's like a religion, there are moderates and extremes and all kinds of people. Some believe in this part others believe in another. But they're all part of the same religion, all have the same principles. One might not be 'extreme' in one aspect but be extreme in another. One might not support the views of one extreme followers but empathize with him/her because ultimately there's a well of shit those extreme views came from and it's the shared culture and values of the faithful, not some vacuum. The more you read leftists blogs and newspapers - and especially the comments where they're not restrained by the need to appear moderate (as politicians do) the more obvious it becomes. If a leftists has a real problem with those 'extremes' he wouldn't be a leftist. No different than a racist who has friends who owns slaves but he himself doesn't own any. Yeah, his friends are more 'extreme,' but both are the same shit to me.

Wow, what a moron.
 
Could be, I'm working off memory, but that makes it even more alarming.

Looked it up: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/08/school-applications-oxbridge-selection

Little disclosure, I went to one of those 5 schools. Half the year gets oxbridge offers, while the other half generally to Russell group/Ivy League.
While those who do get in win their places on merit, its clear its what state school's can't offer in terms of application preparation that gives them the edge, rather than them being necessarily cleverer. My particular school offers interview practice to those attending local state schools, but they can only achieve so much with the term or so of time they have - its that kind of environment that a selective school offers over an extended period of time that's the advantage, which is why I do feel it'll be very difficult for that statistic to change.

Take a look at that one state school in that group; its Hills Road in Cambridge, which is filled with the children of those working at the university and mature students; those who go there are far more likely to be exposed to a positive academic environment and hence are more likely to get in.
 
I'm not keen on capitalism and think we need to move on to better system, so I must like murdering psychopaths.

I just think the workers should own the means of production. Guess I secretly want to gas the Kurds and invade Iran for their oil. We all know ML-ists are famous for their love of such things.

Seriously, that post reads like something you'd see on TPC.
 
CHEEZMO™;53259636 said:
I just think the workers should own the means of production. Guess I secretly want to gas the Kurds and invade Iran for their oil. We all know ML-ists are famous for their love of such things.

Yeah, I think there's more to life than this, I've only got 70yrs on the planet and it shouldn't revolve around profit and paying the bills to survive- kill kill kill.
 
It's a private investment company though. I fail to see your issue with them taking on debt to fund their investments. This would seemingly be what you argued for in past posts- private initiative and investment over government spending on large capital intensive projects. ANY large scale project on the scale of Liverpool One requires take on board debt. Debt isn't the issue, it's how that debt is financed by the lending party.

O.K Lets bring this back to Thatcher.

In 1960's & 1970's Great Britain, we had a neo socialist economy. The state owned nearly everything and limited choice. Private companies were on life support. There was virtually no foreign investment & the banks were controlled by the state.

Thatcher came along and created the free market. Companies like the Grosvenor Group prospered during this time.

Now do you think that places like Liverpool One would have possible without Thatcher creating the free market and dismantling state control.
 
O.K Lets bring this back to Thatcher.

In 1960's & 1970's Great Britain, we had a neo socialist economy. The state owned nearly everything and limited choice. Private companies were on life support. There was virtually no foreign investment & the banks were controlled by the state.

Thatcher came along and created the free market. Companies like the Grosvenor Group prospered during this time.

Now do you think that places like Liverpool One would have possible without Thatcher creating the free market and dismantling state control.


There's more to the universe than Thatcher's snatch. life existed before her you know.

The 70s were shit for everyone, it's more complicated than you want to believe.
 
O.K Lets bring this back to Thatcher.

In 1960's & 1970's Great Britain, we had a neo socialist economy. The state owned nearly everything and limited choice. Private companies were on life support. There was virtually no foreign investment & the banks were controlled by the state.

Thatcher came along and created the free market. Companies like the Grosvenor Group prospered during this time.

Now do you think that places like Liverpool One would have possible without Thatcher creating the free market and dismantling state control.

I never said that Liverpool's regeneration would be possible without Thatcher, nor alluded to it? You have a real knack for veering onto completely different topics with each post.

The closest I said to that was that Thatcher left Liverpool, and many other towns and cities across the UK to rot, by not providing an alternative to the industries propped up by unions and subsidies which she rightfully took on (coal, steel, etc). The fact is it took a decade after Thatcher left office, and much longer since Liverpool's severe decline began for the market took moves to regenerate the city, alongside massive levels of EU funding and events such as capital of culture. During which time large parts suffered great deprivation with no easy way to escape it. Meanwhile as alluded to on the last page, the city and many others like it have severe issues still to be dealt with.
 
They're calling for a statute of her in Trafalgar. I'd love to see it go up.

Great, how about no. it's a communal space for celebration. put her statue outside parliament if they really have to.

Reserve that plinth for Attenborough, somebody loved by the majority.
 
They're calling for a statute of her in Trafalgar. I'd love to see it go up.

If they do put one up and people try to vandalise it or pull it down, I kind of hope they only get it half done, and she's left in some kind of Michael-Jackson-lean like this:

fmWEbKd.jpg
 
The fact is it took a decade after Thatcher left office, and much longer since Liverpool's severe decline began for the market took moves to regenerate the city, alongside massive levels of EU funding and events such as capital of culture. During which time large parts suffered great deprivation with no easy way to escape it. Meanwhile as alluded to on the last page, the city and many others like it have severe issues still to be dealt with.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yes places rotted but it took Thatcher about 5 years to dismantle the state to allow for the big bang in 86. Until it was dismantled, investment would not have been possible.

You cannot run a Neo Socialist economy at the same time there's a free market. Even then, it takes time to get the investment or do you think the Grosvenor Group suddenly woke up in 1986 with 500million in its pocket to build Liverpool One
 
It want it to be made of solid gold, and I want it to turn to face the sun automatically.

images

Compromise time.
Modern art version- will piss off the mail and telegraph, but would still technically be Thatcher, and I can get a few laughs out of it
 
Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yes places rotted but it took Thatcher about 5 years to dismantle the state to allow for the big bang in 86. Until it was dismantled, investment would not have been possible.

You cannot run a Neo Socialist economy at the same time there's a free market. Even then, it takes time to get the investment or do you think the Grosvenor Group suddenly woke up in 1986 with 500million in its pocket to build Liverpool One

And yet under the last years of this 'Neo Socialist economy' there was still large scale investment in London and the South East.

And please don't be pedantic, there's a big difference between investment a few years down the line, and a decade and a half later.
 
For what it's worth, it seems like the rest of the Anglosphere holds high regard for Thatcher, especially here in Australia by our former PM.

Compromise time.
Modern art version- will piss off the mail and telegraph, but would still technically be Thatcher, and I can get a few laughs out of it

Deal. :D
 
And yet under the last years of this 'Neo Socialist economy' there was still large scale investment in London and the South East.

And please don't be pedantic, there's a big difference between investment a few years down the line, and a decade and a half later.

The south just had a knock on effect from London. You may not like it but the fact is national and international companies tend to flock to the same cities as its easier to conduct business.

I'm sorry that you feel I am pedantic but I just feel I am a realist. Liverpool is not the only place outside London, so what makes you think you should be a priority, apart from that you possibly live there?

Yes, they probably focused on the South but have you thought that it was probably to do with that it was easier, as they didn't have to put up with a Labour run council thats hesitant on changes.
 
Fucking lol dude. US and UK are more conservative than Sweden and the richest 1% own a larger share of pre-tax income than they do in Sweden. You're proving my point.

That is very fine and dandy except that wasn't the point.

The point was the impact of 80's right wing policy on inequality.



Also, it says that some of that is a result from societal changes as more people are living in households, and the top income tax rate dropped from 87% to 56%.

Read your own sources.[

The decrease in taxation in Sweden was much smaller than in UK and the increase in Gini much bigger. Sweden is also much smaller country.

Turkey, Greece, Belgium reduced their their top marginal tax rate and at the same time decreased their Gini coefficient.

Finland kept their a marginal tax ~45-50% rate yet Gini cooficient rose, again more than in UK.



I agree that decrease in taxes generally raises inequality, I simply think it is not the sole reason for what we're observing.
 
I was listening to an Intelligence Squared podcast this morning. One of the guests was introduced as 'working for the Thatcher administration' and there was lots of booing and jeering from the crowd. She really was really disliked by many.
 
I think a big part of the problem of inequality and lowered wages vs productivity is in the role of technology and its automating of certain tasks. The "productivity" of a worker might increase, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily working harder or necessarily any harder to replace or necessarily have their skills in shorter supply - in other words, the things that actual impact a wage a person receives. Further to that, automation is going to increase the money for those with capital to invest and decrease it for workers, generally - this is the case whatever political philosophy you adhere to, until being a Luddite is a key plank of yours. In a globalised world, simply forcing businesses to give more of their money to their employees seems like an insufficient response.
 
I was listening to an Intelligence Squared podcast this morning. One of the guests was introduced as 'working for the Thatcher administration' and there was lots of booing and jeering from the crowd. She really was really disliked by many.

It's because she gave off vibes of enjoying her handywork, besides Tebbit* the other tories are less divisive.


*just remembered Peter Lilley and his nasty poem.
 
Two faced champagne socialist.

Whines about social inequality being caused by Thatcher, so what does he do..fucks off to live in America, the very definition and home of social inequality.

No time for these celebrity cunts.

While I'm not aware of Costello's current location, and I accept that he isn't politically relevant, are you saying his opinion is invalid because he moved to America? Really?

Nationalism - it's what's hip.

I'd rather it was the Hefner song. Not for any reason except I loved Hefner back in the day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BCUWopQQ4&sns=em

I'd prefer Shipbuilding. Either version.

Apparently they're all getting up there on the charts.
 
I was listening to an Intelligence Squared podcast this morning. One of the guests was introduced as 'working for the Thatcher administration' and there was lots of booing and jeering from the crowd. She really was really disliked by many.

Which debate/podcast is this?
 
The south just had a knock on effect from London. You may not like it but the fact is national and international companies tend to flock to the same cities as its easier to conduct business.

I'm sorry that you feel I am pedantic but I just feel I am a realist. Liverpool is not the only place outside London, so what makes you think you should be a priority, apart from that you possibly live there?

Yes, they probably focused on the South but have you thought that it was probably to do with that it was easier, as they didn't have to put up with a Labour run council thats hesitant on changes.

I'm just using Liverpool as an example. I could have used many other towns and cities in the north west, north east, Yorkshire, the midlands, Wales and Scotland. The fact is by whittling down heavy industries so fast (and subsequently not providing the help required for these places to adjust to the new world order) in all these areas left the country and government heavily reliant on London and the south east for jobs and tax revenue alike. The long term issue is that once you set down that road, the process can become a never ending circle (especially in terms of company start ups, infrastructure, bringing in more firms, etc), and requires huge capital investment from somewhere to correct.
 
I'm just using Liverpool as an example. I could have used many other towns and cities in the north west, north east, Yorkshire, the midlands, Wales and Scotland. The fact is by whittling down heavy industries so fast (and subsequently not providing the help required for these places to adjust to the new world order) in all these areas left the country and government heavily reliant on London and the south east for jobs and tax revenue alike. The long term issue is that once you set down that road, the process can become a never ending circle (especially in terms of company start ups, infrastructure, bringing in more firms, etc), and requires huge capital investment from somewhere to correct.

Your correct but I really am just not sure where that capital investment would come from

The heavy industries was on life support. The country was officially bankrupt, being dictated what they could spend by the IMF and foreign investors wasn't interested because of the Unions
 
So Thatcher wasn't a proponant? Because under her reign it remained steady.

Thatcher made it plainly clear that the Conservative party would follow Neoliberal doctrine, based on no empirical foundation. The deregulation that occurred especially within the City of London unleashed something that most people have no comprehension of. If you work in finance (I do, have worked for investment banks and currently at a hedge fund on structured transactions) you know that the City is the Wild West of the Financial Services industry. Regulation is easily circumvented regardless of the regulatory framework.

Every dodgy deal, all of those SPVs, all of those “economic hedges” and hedge accounting relationships were nearly all of them cooked up and booked in the London divisions of every one of the financial institutions involved.

Thatcher's policies followed Greenspan's fundamentally libertarian viewpoints. The result was the re-emergence of everything that FDR's administration had worked so hard to stop happening as a result of 1929 and the harsh lessons learned of the real perils of free market economics ideology left unfettered.

I don't think anyone is really arguing against free markets, what we want are proper regulation. Thatcher's doctrine was to deregulate almost without limit.

The crash of 2008 and the balance sheet recession that we are currently in and will not come out of for another decade at least (see Japan/Richard Koo/Nomura) was born out of the de-regulation of financial services in the 1980s and the immediate race to the bottom as a result of free movement of capital.

Unprincipled people on Wall Street/The City took advantage of deregulation to makes themselves wonderfully wealthy at the expense of others in transactions which were nothing but zero sum. These weren’t trades and deals that created wealth, nothing of physical tangible value created, paper was moved and synthetic entities conjured up. For someone to win, someone else had to lose.

That’s the trading side. No one talks about the “Wealth Management” side and the real damage caused by the tax haven network her policies created. Britain is at the center of the whole offshore scandal. The City of London lobbies to keep the status quo – they profit from it, not just the financial intermediaries, it’s the accounting firms, consultants and lawyers. The entire apparatus focused on the harvesting of capital out of the world economy. The politicians are fully captured too.

We have a situation now where tens of trillions are hidden within secrecy jurisdictions and so called “treasure islands”. This evasion has increased exponentially since the 1980s and is a direct result of the “Big Bang” that Thatcher and Reagan are so venerated for. This evasion is a major contributor to those government deficits. The kicker is that where do governments go to finance these deficits? The very same offshore money made available through financial intermediation. So here it is, deficits caused in part by tax havens, with States then paying interest to the holders of the money in those very jurisdictions.

This money is essentially deadweight. It just accumulates; most of it can never be spent. Multinationals cannot repatriate it since they deem it would receive far too great a haircut (i.e. taxed at the correct rate that small business can not escape) - so shareholders will never see a benefit from this cash. For them to repatriate and therefore invest they demand a higher return than ever before. This is in part the reason for the lobbying activity based on championing cost reductive measures (deregulation, erosion of worker rights, removal of minimum wage).

It is a total scam.

What it all boils down to is this – it is increasingly obvious that deregulation of financial services is the number one cause of the growing inequality prevalent across our economic landscape. This does not excuse successive governments from pursuing the very same utterly destructive policies. However once you start a race to the bottom it’s very difficult to reverse course without international consensus.

But fuck it, it’s easier to sell politics of division talking about those “scroungers” than discuss the real issues of secrecy jurisdictions, financial engineering, transfer pricing and shell companies.
 
That is very fine and dandy except that wasn't the point.

The point was the impact of 80's right wing policy on inequality.
No, that was the point. Because the topic was economic policy on and who benefits from what. Sweden is more left wing than the UK and the US and their richest 1% hold a smaller share of their country's wealth. That's the end of the discussion. The rise of incomes at the top across nearly all countries suggests in the OECD suggest external factors at work, but Sweden's policies have help blunted that impact of inequality, preventing it from getting as bad as the US and the UK.
 
Margaret Hilda Thatcher was the bovril of politics. Love her or hate her, you couldn't ignore her. My meetings with her were Falklands orientated. She sent us to war, a just war. She seen us as 'her boys' and she attended Falklands veterans events regularly.

These events usually involved an informal get together when she was very frank about the events of the Falklands War and those around her. Once she sat down with a small whisky, always! she talked amongst us openly. I remember one occasion about 2002 when she was vitriloic about John Nott and Francis Pym, she called them 'gutless toffs'.

There was however another side to her. She was open about her dealings with the US when they were sitting on the fence between the UK and the Argentines and said that it was her words when Nicholas Henderson (UK Ambassador to the US) said on American TV; We waited for you from 1915 to 1917. we waited for you from 1939 to 1944. How long will we wait for you this time? A remark that was designed to hit home.

As for the reasons for the war itself; forget oil, forget minerals, it was simply about right and wrong. British people had been invaded by a facist dictatorship. and in her word... "who else could they turn to"? We went and we righted a wrong and in the process left 255 good lads in the mud. I know that Maggie sat and wrote to each and every family personally. These letters were not typed, they were hand writted and I have personally, at close quarters, seen Maggie shed tears over the guys we left behind.

She wasn't perfect and she made mistakes. Theres no point talking about the miners strike or any of the other divisive issues because that discussion has been done to death. She made mistakes over the poll tax, her dealings with the EU, mind you she has been proved right over the Euro. Margaret Hilda Thatcher was my old boss, my hero, my mentor and I am hugely proud to have known her a little. I sit here holding a small whisky in her honour with a tear in my eye. She was a lion in defence of this country. She wasn't really a right wing capitalist, she was an old fashioned moralist. Right and wrong, good or bad.

RIP Baroness, the class of 82 will never forget you. Rest easy, duty done.

Just read this on another forum.... Thought I'd drop it here.

I'm just using Liverpool as an example. I could have used many other towns and cities in the north west, north east, Yorkshire, the midlands, Wales and Scotland. The fact is by whittling down heavy industries so fast (and subsequently not providing the help required for these places to adjust to the new world order) in all these areas left the country and government heavily reliant on London and the south east for jobs and tax revenue alike. The long term issue is that once you set down that road, the process can become a never ending circle (especially in terms of company start ups, infrastructure, bringing in more firms, etc), and requires huge capital investment from somewhere to correct.

That rapid shutting down of the pits was not the original plan though. The government originally proposed to close the pits which were mostly digging only dirt out of the ground instead of coal and introduce new mechanization to improve productivity in the pits that still had coal. It did mean 20000 job losses out of 120,000 but the intention was that the coal industry to press on.

The NUC went militant at this, called a strike without a mandate and dispatched flying pickets to smash up the cars of people at other pits who wanted to work. The NUC didn't ballot their members to see if they actually wanted to strike because he knew the workers might think the government was actually talking a bit of sense as the majority knew we had pits where the miners were digging miles to get to coal seams a couple of foot thick using slow and labour intensive old machines.

Scargill simply saw it as a battle of left v right which must be won at all costs and Thatcher stood up to it and decided that this must be the time that the grip and near insanity of the unions needed sorting once and for all.

The rest as they say is history.
 
"the issue isn't her death, it's the fact she was ever born"

Derek Hatton.

A bit more restrained than I expected.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom